So how do we fight them now?

[Gman]

The corporations have completed their bloodless overthrow of the government. Although I remain unconvinced they have consolidated their power by including in spirit the White House, for all practical purposes it appears over. Bush and Cheney remain free. Health insurance companies openly challenged the government to do something when they violated the spirit if not the letter of the HCR law by jacking up rates 20% across the board last year. BP is pretty much unscathed while the government says it's OK to eat fish from the Eastern Gulf. Meanwhile people along the coast are sick. And days after the Comcast/NBC merger Keith is gone. People continue to lose houses while handful of state AG's find ways to stop the fraudulent foreclosures. Then someone else with the corporate money behind him/her finds ways to clear the way for foreclosures to go forward. There's much, much more to the point there's not enough room or time to read it all.

If there were any hope at all left, the results of the last election after Citizens United pretty much snuffed that out and cleared the way for the text book definition of fascism in the US.

People are isolated. No jobs, no health care, no hope. But against the background of no hope, they have taken up the conservative mantra engrained in them by their church, or whatever in spite of the fact it's against their own interests. They have no initiative or drive to want to change things so that the government serves people not the rich or corporations.

What do we do? What now? Is there any hope especially against Citizens United? Those left of center are splintered in every conceivable direction. There is no unity. But if there was unity, how do you fight the money and those that are more than willing to take it? Why do I have this feeling of impending doom with 2012 coming fast?

How do we fight them now?

[RandomThoughts]

1. Why fight them?

That is what they want.

Just don't go along with them, nor respect what they do if you disagree with it.

Why would you fight them, they are on a downward spiral, if anything try to help them understand what they are doing.

[October]

2. I have the same questions and no answers

Our progressive voices have always been assassinated, ruined by scandal, or otherwise marginalized (a la Dean's scream).

The corporatists have all the money, power and positions -- and now they have Citizens United.

And you're right -- the left-of-center group is more splintered than ever. Maybe we all need to become republicans (Trojan Horse) and infiltrate destroy them from within. I cannot bear watching another political cycle of spineless Democrats kowtowing to the extremists on the right.

Just thinking 'out loud' here -- one of the things I've always loved about DU.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

13. +1

[blindpig]

3. Quit looking for help in the wrong places.

The entire political establishment is dead set on 'austerity', which means supporting the ruling class at the expense of the rest of us. D & R barely means a thing in this debate, what differences there are being restricted to 'social issues'. The only debate will be about what gets hammered worst.

We are on our own. Better start acting like we know that, better start acting upon it. Gotta organize, the unions need to get their shit together(there are glimmerings of this), gotta support those unions willing to fight. Crunch time is coming.

[Gman]

4. That's pretty much where I'm at

and I never thought I would.

[Enthusiast]

5. I feel the same.

"D&R barely mean a thing in this fight." So true. If the polls are to be believed at all, on one issue the American people are firmly united -do not cut social security and medicare. This is our one rallying point.

[w8liftinglady]

7. Personally speaking out and educating neighbors.

i have done it for 6 years.It doesn't change many mindsets,but it does change a few...then they change a few...and so on.

[TBF]

9. rec this post - I feel exactly the same. nt

[BanzaiBonnie]

23. What is D & R?

[blindpig]

24. Democrats and Republicans. n/t

[maryf]

38. And those in unions that seem to be led by cowards, need to push that leadership..,

and push them hard to fight. solidarity,

[patrice]

6. Pick an issue(s), find like minded folks, do concrete, local, preferably public, work together. nt

[TBF]

8. Same way we always have - milllions in the streets. Non-violent protests. It's the only thing

that gets their attention anyway.

[patrice]

10. Right on! One change we need is for people to accept the fact that they MUST be public. nt

[Doctor_J]

14. This accomplishes nothing

absolutely zero. Remember the Iraq War protests?

Need to think a little more aggressively.

[TBF]

16. I can't get more aggressive and stay within the rules of this website.

nt

[EmeraldCityGrl]

19. +1

[TBF]

17. Would also add - remember civil rights? suffrage? It does work. nt

[blindpig]

22. Duration,

that's what's needed. Not just a one day wonder but a general strike which brings the money making machine to a shuddering halt. Millions in the street, not for a lark, dead serious, we're not giving in an inch. But not dour, rather joyous in our realized strength. Look at the faces of those French in the fall, that's the way to do it, sing, and dance like the Spartans.

[Doctor_J]

26. France is not run by a fascist media cartel

Probably half of the union workers in this country believe that the president is going to "take away all of their guns". And that all will be well if public workers are reduced to poverty wages. Good luck getting them to protest.

[blindpig]

28. Not to worry...

when push come to shove we will do what we must, they will give us no choice.

[Edweird]

34. Does the Dem party support a renewed AWB or not? What makes you think unions are 'out to get' public

workers? The reason 'public workers' wages are so low is because they aren't in unions, not the other way around. At this point the attack on unions is coming from both parties. Obama's RW 'cadillac tax' is an outright assault on unions. I don't know whether you are simply misinformed or intentionally dishonest, but either way it isn't good.

[Doctor_J]

37. You should probably re-read my post, only slowly so you can actually

comprehend it. Let's compare hat I actually wrote to what you scold me for.

ME:

Probably half of the union workers in this country believe that the president is going to "take away all of their guns"

You: Does the Dem party support a renewed AWB or not?

What in hell does this have to do with Obama taking every gun from every American, which is what Hate Radio addicts, including those who belong to unions, believe?

Me:

And that all will be well if public workers are reduced to poverty wages.

You:What makes you think unions are 'out to get' public workers?

What? I take it back. You couldn't have read my post at all. Hate Radio and the rest of the right wing are brainwashing their subjects into believing that public workers make too little instead of the truth, that private workers are currently making peasant wages. I know little of what "unions" think, but their members who are addicted to Fox News are sadly uninformed.

You:The reason 'public workers' wages are so low is because they aren't in unions, not the other way around. At this point the attack on unions is coming from both parties.

Duh, and duh. The original point is that the meager union membership is divided, like America at large, into those who are aware of the truth and those who listen to Hate Radio. Therefore getting them into the streets to protest the 3rd-world working conditions in the US will be extremely difficult.

[Arugula Latte]

36. Nah, only Teabag type protests are covered by the media.

They've learned to ignore us, or just show one shot of one extreme anarchist to scare people, and make it seem like everybody at the protest was like that one person.

[Doctor_J]

11. Same as always

Do nothing. we are way more pathetic than the Good Germans

[cali]

12. I don't feel isolated. I'm part of a community

In Vermont, money doesn't buy elections. Our new gov is working on single payer. We have a vibrant and non corporate press operating here- though much of is through online sources like vtdigger. The housing market is stable here and there have been few foreclosures. I'm represented in D.C. by three progressives. Unemployment is under 6%.

There's plenty of initiative here in the hill of old Vermont. And quite a bit of hope.

[w8liftinglady]

15. awww... I want to move to Vermont!

[OneGrassRoot]

21. Me, too....

:hug:

[TBF]

18. I think you make a good point in that we can do both -

no problem with working locally and trying to improve our areas, as we also think globally with protests. It will likely take both. I'm curious to visit Vermont one day - sounds like a nice place to live.

[Gman]

39. You're in Vermont while I'm in Texas

'nuff said.

[starroute]

20. "Don't mourn -- organize!"

If elections don't cut it and revolution doesn't cut it, organizing is the only remaining path.

The real question, though, is who to organize and around what issues. Preaching to the choir isn't sufficient -- it's always easy to get a lot of earnest liberals to sign petitions or turn out for the occasional rally.

You need something broader based. That's why the unions were so powerful in their time -- they made it possible to organize a broad spectrum of people around the issue of their employment. But business these days isn't workforce-dependent in the same way -- and the real issues are no longer things like hours and wages. So that isn't going to work a second time.

One point of possible leverage is organizing the poor around basic subsistence and quality of life issues. I don't think the right would have put so much effort into destroying ACORN and demonizing community organizers if they weren't aware of the real potential there.

Actually, what's dawning on me as I write is that community organizing might be the way to go. But many different modes of community organizing -- modes to cover everyone from the urban poor to the rural middle class who are worried about pollution and fracking.

Right now, we're horrendously disempowered as voters. We're weak as workers and weak as consumers. But our greatest strength is in community. And we have to figure out how to turn that into real power.

[bvar22]

25. There IS an avenue open for real "CHANGE".

The Blue Print for "CHANGE" is in South & Central America.
They have shown us how.
The Populist Reforms sweeping across Latin America are nothing short of near bloodless revolutions.

When the Working Class & The Poor realize we have more in common with each other than we have in common with the rich elite leadership of BOTH political parties, we can demand "CHANGE".

Until then,
learn to live well with less.
As much as possible, stop feeding the machine that is consuming you.
Economic Issues unite the bottom 98%.
Find common cause.

[patrice]

27. 1++++++++++

[TBF]

29. And broadly define "working class" - anyone who needs to work,

ie, they cannot live off their inheritance/investments, those are workers even though they might like to think of themselves as wealthy. If they've got a hefty mortgage and credit card debt - tied to their pay checks - they are not wealthy.

[rbnyc]

30. Good question!

And it's the right one. I don't know. Keep talking, keep sharing information, keep annoying your family, friends and co-workers by not shutting up about what's going on, keep showing up?

I'd love some new ideas.

[Odin2005]

31. If I told you I would be TSed for "promoting violent revolution".

[CrispyQ]

32. Common Dreams posted this article from Yes! magazine.

Rocky Times Ahead: Are You Ready?
This isn't a future you can, or should, face alone. How to make sure you don't have to.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/01/21-4

The title is a little alarmist, but I'm going to checkout some of the things they mentioned - common security clubs, bartering circles, resource sharing exchanges.

The only way we will survive is to strengthen our communities. America has glorified the individual over community for so long, that I think this is going to be a difficult task. It's a complete change in perspective - we instead of me.

[Blaq Dem]

33. REAL SOLUTION: Progressives taking over corporations!

The corporate warlords are destroying America and the world. These people are sociopaths. They have OCD issues with money in which they like to hoard it. You see, money is like crack cocaine to them. They have to have it anyway they can even if it means driving the deficit into the ground. Enough is never enough. Just think of the mindset it takes to sit in the boardroom of a company and to make the decision to deny sick children of health insurance? Pretty sick.

The real solution is for progressives to start our own corporations that put people first rather than profits.

[Edweird]

35. Corporations are required, by law, to act in the best interest of their shareholders.

That means putting profit before people.

[butterfly77]

40. Give it some time..

they will be begging for us to all come together after they get done,destroying everything that is good in this country. They think they will be able to shame different groups by asking them to speak up and asking for certain people to be a spokespeople to shut the people down but,it will be too late.

Most of the republicons and their base still don't think that they have done any damage,they still believe that a majority of America is on their side.
.
Many of these repubs/teabaggers will soon realize how they were fucked over. Some are now awakening to the fact that they voted against their own best interests and are pretending as though they didn't agree with Bush,republiCONS or teabaggers.

A lot of these people don't know who or what they are for they just want to take back America from who they don't know..