What Yoo and Bybee were to Bush's torture, Holder is to Obama's drone killings.

[No Elephants]

Change we can bereave in.




The D of J produced a 16 page memo justifying murder by drone on "suspicion" of being a terrorist, even ANY intelligence indicating engagement in a plot to attack the U.S.

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16843014-exclusive-justice-department-memo-reveals-legal-case-for-drone-strikes-on-americans?lite

Everyone makes an issue of some of the victims being American citizens. The Constitution of the U.S. was written for a nation of immigrants by people who were themselves immigrants or whose father or grandfather had been an immigrant and ratified by the same. The Bill of Rights is not limited to citizens. The bill of rights speaks in terms of "person" or "people," not "citizens." Deal with it, flag pin patriots.



Admittedly, the preamble to the Bill of Rights is not part of the Constitution. However, it is interesting. And, it, too, says nothing about citizenship.

The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

Congress of the United States
begun and held at the City of New-York, on
Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powersthat further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.

RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.

ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.

And the bill of rights itself:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Amendment VII

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The Supreme Court has held that capitol punishment does not violate the 8th amendment's ban against cruel and unsual punishment, but that assumes that all the steps up to the time of death have complied with the Constitution and statutes. Such is not the case with drone killings. Be killed withot any due process whatsoever, may violate the 8th amendment, but I did not bold it.

[Enthusiast]

1. I have serious doubts that

drone strikes are constitutional, at least against citizens.

I suppose they could parse the words (imagine that) in the fifth amendment "public danger". But that still does not absolve the government of the requirements for "a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury". Where is the impartial jury or public trail? They have already decided upon guilt. These amendments were written to protect against the very abuses we are witnessing.

It seems to me that we have, especially since 911, ignored much of what makes the country unique, like due process. Some have even suggested that 911 was allowed to happen, or even staged, as a vehicle to justify abuse of the constitution in just such a manner.

[No Elephants]

2. Nothing in the Constitution limits the bill of rights to citizens.

As you know, the bill of rights limits the power of the federal government.

It describes how Americans of 1789 wanted the federal government to behave toward humans, states and other nations.

If you want to limit the duties owed humans by the fedderal government to only U.S. citizen humans, you would have to amend the Constitution.

Even if you interpret the 5th amendment to allow drone strikes in cases of public danger, the idea that no evidence of a plot need exist pretty much blows up that argument.

The Fourteenth amendment, which applies to the conduct of the states is a different matter from the Bill of Rights. And even that was written more with an eye toward overruling, by Constitutional amendment, the Dred Scott case, in which the Supreme Court said that African Americans were not citizens. Still, the 14th limits the power of states. The Bill of Rights limits the powers of the federal government; and it is the federal government that is engaging in drone killings.

Regardless of the origin of 911, it gave us Homeland Security and the Patriot Act. However, bear in mind that Bill Clinton was engaging in extraordinary rendition and other behaviors prior to 911.