Deadbeat’ parents caught in a debtor’s prison

[mfcorey1]

On any given day, hundreds of Georgians are in jail for failing to pay child support.

Family law attorneys say many of these "deadbeats" are right where they belong. They have been found in willful contempt of court for repeatedly refusing to pay their child support, failing to try to find work or hiding their income and assets.

But many parents are being jailed even though they have no ability to pay, creating modern-day debtor's prisons, according to motions being filed in Georgia courts. The state should provide lawyers to indigent parents for their civil-contempt hearings to ensure due process, the filings say.

Leah Ward Sears, former chief justice of the Georgia Supreme Court, spells out the complexity

http://www.ajc.com/news/deadbeat-parents-caught-in-813825.html

[closeupready]

1. k n r

nt

[ThomCat]

2. Regardless of any other issues, imprisoning people over debts

is wrong. Any judge doing this should be disbarred. :grr:

We got rid of debtors prisons a long time ago for a lot of damned good reasons. Bringing them back now, just because the credit recovery industry finds it profitable is nothing short of Evil!

This is another sign that corporations are getting out of hand, and our criminal justice system has nothing to do with actual crimes, or justice. It is all about money, distribution of wealth, class warfare and protecting wealth.

:grr:

[Hannah Bell]

4. they are bringing them back, slowly but surely, imo.

[ThomCat]

10. Yes. I am sure it is a trend that isn't going to reverse.

I am sure it will only get worse, because this is much too effective a way to re-allocate wealth upward from poor people to rich people.

Our society seems to be hell-bent on finding every single tool for sucking every single dollar of wealth people have upward into the hands of the rich, and then mandating all of them by law one at a time.

Poor people aren't allowed to have money, and if any do have money it has to be taken away. By fee, or fine, or tax it has to be taken and given to corporations so that executives and investors can have it. That is the direction things are moving, and our criminal justice system is becoming the enforcement mechanism, as if being poor is a crime again. :(

As if being in Debt is a crime again. But being in debt is what drives our economy. The corporations want us all to have debt, but at the same time here we see that they want debt to become a crime again.

It is a horrible catch-22 for poor people, and for our entire economy. It can't endure for long before something either collapses or explodes.

[leftstreet]

28. +1 a million times

:applause:

I hope you'll consider putting your thoughts "imprisoning people over debt is wrong" into an OP

[closeupready]

14. Yes. This story is about Geogia, but there was another story about Minnesota last autumn.

I forget the details, but that debtor prison story was much more brazen than this one.

[stockholmer]

34. here is the Minnesota debtor prison story

http://www.startribune.com/local/95692619.html

"You committed no crime, but an officer is knocking on your door. More Minnesotans are surprised to find themselves being locked up over debts.

As a sheriff's deputy dumped the contents of Joy Uhlmeyer's purse into a sealed bag, she begged to know why she had just been arrested while driving home to Richfield after an Easter visit with her elderly mother.

No one had an answer. Uhlmeyer spent a sleepless night in a frigid Anoka County holding cell, her hands tucked under her armpits for warmth. Then, handcuffed in a squad car, she was taken to downtown Minneapolis for booking. Finally, after 16 hours in limbo, jail officials fingerprinted Uhlmeyer and explained her offense -- missing a court hearing over an unpaid debt. "They have no right to do this to me," said the 57-year-old patient care advocate, her voice as soft as a whisper. "Not for a stupid credit card."..............


also see

http://moneywatch.bnet.com/saving-money/blog/consumer-reporter/could-debtors-prison-make-a-comeback/242/

[Uben]

3. Most of the deadbeats I know belong in jail

Nothing pisses me off more than someone who abandons their kids. There's a difference between someone who exhibits a true willingness to do right by them than those who just don't fucking care. For those that don't care and don't make an effort, let them fucking rot in jail!

[Hannah Bell]

5. if you are, for example, homeless & living on the streets, your kids will be taken from you.

for a lot of people who can't pay child support, they're a step away from homelessness themselves, or there.

i'm not sure how prison is supposed to help them or their children.

i'd think a job would be more help; it probably would cost the state about as much as prison time.

[Uben]

7. If you are homeless and living on the streets.....

.....and not paying support, you don't have your kids! If you did, you wouldn't be required to pay support!

I have compassion for those who try to do right and simply cannot pay due to economic conditions. I'm talking about deadbeats that do not care and make no effort. Hell, a lot of them have the means, they just don't want to do it. Those, in my opinion are the scum of the earth.

[Hannah Bell]

8. i'm saying that you despise people who "abandon" their kids; however, that's

one of the cases in which if you want not to abandon them, if you want to keep them with you, you'll have a hard time doing it.

if you are talking about people who have plenty of money but simply choose not to pay; that's not my experience. most of the deadbeats i've seen have been on the lower end of the economic ladder.

[liberalhistorian]

20. There is a huge, huge difference between those who

simply cannot pay (lost a job and can't find another one despite trying to find one, ill and unable to work, medical or family crisis, etc., etc.) and those who CAN do so but who willfully refuse and who even hide assets or who go from job to job, leaving before child support can catch up with them, etc. (like my son's father did; his wife taught him how to "game the system" even though HER ex would hear about it if he were even one day late with HIS support for their daughter). There is a HUGE difference between the two.

I totally agree that everyone has the right to due process and said due process MUST be followed, anything less is unacceptable. And NO ONE should be jailed if they simply cannot pay (can't find work despite efforts to do so, are ill, etc.) But, having once been in the legal field, I know that, generally speaking, it isn't those who can't pay that are put in jail, it's those who have the ability but who willfully refuse to do so who are jailed and, even then, only after almost all other avenues have been exhausted. Many who are jailed owe tens of thousands of dollars in back support 'cause they haven't made any effort to pay in years. I have NO problem with such people being thrown in jail, often it's the only thing that will finally get them to start supporting their own children and quit expecting the custodial parent and/or society to do it all for them.

[Ilsa]

6. I hear you. Too many treat their financial obligation as an expense to be paid

only with discretionary income. They like forgetting that food, clothing, and shelter are not discretionary expenses for the custodial parent.

I know a pair of grandparents who raised their granddaughter. The mother was disabled and having issues, the father occasionally sent a check for $200 for his daughter even though he was well-employed. Rarely saw her, too. Then he got miffed when the minister who performed her wedding ceremony stated she was raised by her grandparents.

But going back to the subject, if someone has lost their job in this economy, I think the courts should recognize that the parent had been responsible but are now unable to provide. Jail doesn't help. (Unless it's jail for the criminals who created this mess.)

[tinkerbell41]

18. I am in this situation

My ex has not paid in years. I worked 2 jobs and am putting her through college alone. But I don't want to take him to court, the lawyer said the judge will put him in jail. I DON"T want that. He is no good to me there, in addition to it's her dad how could I?

[blueamy66]

22. Exactly tinkerbell

I feel for you. Like I said, my fiance didn't pay for a few years, but now is "paying".

If he was in jail, nothing good would come of it.

[tinkerbell41]

24. I mean would I like to rip

him limb to limb? Yes. But I am grounded in reality. And the craziest bitch would be if he did go to jail OUR tax money would pay for him. 3 hots and a cot courtesy of my 2nd job? x(

[walldude]

27. I have the same problem with my ex-wife.

We have been divorced for over 10 years, I have custody. She hasn't paid one cent in 10 years, when she wants to see them I have to pick her up and take her home, if they want to talk to her I have to call her, she will never call them, I make arrangements for days out with them and I pay her way to take them out when she wants to.

I'd love to cut her ass off, I'd love to sue her for child support. But she is their mother, what the hell am I going to do? My kids deserve better than her but all I can do is try and put her in as good a light as I can so they at least feel like their mom cares about them.

My second wife has been better to my kids than their real mom ever was.

[tinkerbell41]

30. Jeeze

Did you ever wonder what goes on in their head?? I will never understand it.

[walldude]

31. Yeah it's confusing...

I often wonder if I should have got her some counseling or something. I mean our kids are really great, it's not like they are in trouble or a pain in the ass. They are both whip smart and fun to be around, most people give me great comments about my kids. She has no reason whatsoever to not be part of their life.

She has never set foot in their school, never shows up for special events, and up until last year I picked her up every holiday, every birthday, every time she wanted to see them. I bought them presents in her name, I did everything I could to make sure this was not one of those horrible divorces kids never live down. It's hard enough for them already. I do my best not to say anything about her in front of them, but it's getting harder as she is becoming more distant.

You know, I guess it's all we can do, take the high road and hope for the best.

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. IMHO, at some point the charade becomes counterproductive.

The kids are playing along with you in the game of pretending that mom wants to be a mom.

There's one sure fire way she can participate in their upbringing, call support enforcement.

[blueamy66]

36. And how does "calling child support enforcement"

ensure that the Mom will participate in their upbringing?

[lumberjack_jeff]

37. She'll send money. n/t

[blueamy66]

41. So, what you're saying is that sending money

makes one a parent?

[tinkerbell41]

39. God it sounds like my story.

That is all we can do. Goodluck and keep doing what is right.

[dendrobium]

43. Not making Excuses

I think what happens to a lot of these deadbeat parents is that they are so ashamed of their poor behaviour, they stay away from their children and miss all the special events. Then it becomes a self reinforcing cycle of shame.

[rko_24550]

40. +1

[blueamy66]

13. Really?

How will "rotting in jail" help the child? It's not goinig to pay for braces and school clothes and doc visits.

My fiance was a "deadbeat" for a few years. He has now paid steadily for over 8 years. He has a good relationship with his kid and will pay the back support until it is all paid up. He loves his child, but went thru some tough times. We both speak to his kid weekly....wonderful kid.

Anyway, putting a parent in jail to "rot" isn't the answer.

[Uben]

15. You're right, it's not the answer......

...it's a consequence! Life has consequences.

Sounds like the guy came around and is doing the right thing. Good on him!

Most deadbeats that actually go to jail for non-payment are not the ones who just miss a few payments, they are the ones who have never made an effort and aren't ever going to.

It's not about the parents. It's about the kids!

I have paid support to my ex for 16 yrs! I have never missed a payment. I have six more to go. In fact, my ex and my current wife get along great. We are just one big extended family. I saw my kids almost daily because they came to my house after school for tudoring and their mom came picked them up after work. They came to stay with me when they were out of school for the summer for weeks at a time. I have put the oldest thru college and she now has an MBA. The other graduates highschool this year, and I will do what I can to put her thru college, too, if she desires to go that route.

Too many parents let their anger at an ex get in the way of supporting their kids. They make it about themselves and not the kids.

[emilyg]

23. My ex son-in-law belongs in

jail. Owes over $16T in child support. Has money for concerts and other pleasures but not for his kids.

[tinkerbell41]

25. Bingo!

25G here and he vacations, goes out has a great time. Makes my blood boil

[blueamy66]

29. We go without a few things.

No big vacations or purchases.

It's worth it though. To see his child at University and working and thriving.....

My guy is involved in my nieces/nephews/greats lives and I KNOW he is sad that he missed out on a few years of his own kid's life.

[pipi_k]

9. Because, you know, there just aren't enough people in our prisons... n/t

[lonestarnot]

11. No excuse for intentionally running out on C.S. payments, but we certainly need more private

jailbirds for those private prisons you know.

[DCKit]

12. Hell of a Catch-22... And how to you get, or hold, a job with that record?

If anything, the poverty of the kids will be exacerbated under the current system.

Talk about trickle-down!

[DirkGently]

16. " it is illegal to incarcerate someone who has no ability to pay."

That's the crux of it. Jailing people on contempt charges for failing to pay support is supposed to be predicted on the notion they have the ability to pay and have chosen not to do so. If people are being jailed because they cannot pay, something has gone seriously off the rails.

[lumberjack_jeff]

17. "Deadbeat dads" are the socially acceptable entry point for all kinds of nasty stuff.

Debtors prisons? License revocation for issues unrelated to the license? State run collection agencies?

Everyone's happy to be a hater, until Bank of America starts using that infrastructure.

[liberalhistorian]

21. Like it or not, there are parents (women as well as men,

noncustodial mothers can be deadbeats as well) who simply refuse to live up to their obligations even though they have the ability to do so and prefer to lay it all on the custodial parent. Such parents SHOULD have their licenses revoked, deal with state collection agencies, etc. And they SHOULD suffer a stigma. Not those who cannot pay, of course, but those who CAN but refuse to do so.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. People who "refuse" to make their car payments are beginning to suffer a similar stigma. n/t

[liberalhistorian]

35. Surely you're not equating paying for a car

with the obligation to help support your own child(ren)? They are not the same thing at all. And I've known plenty of noncustodial parents who care more about their cars than their own children. Again, like it or not, not every single case of nonpayment of child support is due to the inability to pay. There are plenty of cases of wilful refusal, where they're able to pay but choose not to do so.

[Blue_Tires]

42. not to mention the fact that

i'll bet many of these 'parents' have several kids with different partners and don't take care of any of them...

[Skidmore]

19. Aw but they are keeping the prison industry in business.

[shanti]

26. not in california!

i know of at least two deadbeat dads here who owe tens of thousands in CS. neither has ever seen the inside of a jail because of it.

[RegieRocker]

38. So who is paying the child support while they are in jail?

Please don't tell me the tax payer is footing the child support and the cost of confinement?

[blueamy66]

44. Yep, that is the solution.

Put the Dad in jail....no job....we pay for their confinement.....the Mom gets her revenge.....and the kid gets nothing. nuff said