Jared Loughner Has a Violence Problem, Not a Mental Health Problem

[HuckleB]

http://blogs.plos.org/neuroanthropology/2011/01/15/jared-loughner-has-a-violence-problem-not-a-mental-health-problem/

"...

On the rhetoric side, the man tried to kill a Democratic congresswoman in a heated political environment, complete with gun sights over Gifford’s district and public figures speaking of citizens exercising their second amendment rights. However, little evidence has appeared in the days since that ties Loughner to this type of political rhetoric. Rather, he was drawn to the fringe of political ideas, like a return to the gold standard and the government using mind control. The link between mainstream politics and his acts appears tenuous.

The mentally disturbed side has gained traction for several reasons. Loughner’s behavior, writings and videos help paint a picture of a disturbed young man. Many mental health professionals, as well as media pundits, have been eager to diagnosis him as schizophrenic. And making Lougher’s behavior about something just inside his head, not about politics, serves many people’s interests.

Vaughan Bell predicted much of this in his essay early last Sunday, Crazy Talk, on Slate. In my post Jared Lee Loughner – Is Mental Illness the Explanation for What He Did?, I subsequently chronicled ideas and explanations that broke out of the either/or dichotomy. Mental causes and social causes locate explanations in either mental states or political rhetoric. Neither works well.

But a central problem remains – understanding what Loughner did and what we can do about it. If it is not an either/or, then what is it? How can we begin to make sense of Loughner’s terrible act of violence?

..."

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This is a very long piece that explores that central problem with great insight, as well as with an open mind. It's worth the read, IMO. In fact, this is what responsible reporters and talking heads would be discussing, if there were any/many responsible reporters and talking heads.

This piece adds another slice to the pie:

Few assassins fit the 'profile.' Most had no mental health treatment, made no threats
http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/08/5794648-few-assassins-fit-the-profile-most-had-no-mental-health-treatment-made-no-threats

Yeah, I know this was discussed with many posts at DU. It may have been discussed into the depth that these pieces enter, but I was gone for a while, and I didn't see it. I couldn't find anything that truly touched on the matters that are brought up in these pieces, in a search. Thus, I suspect that these pieces are worthy reads for DUers.

Take care.

[Hello_Kitty]

1. K and R for later reading.

Thanks for posting.

[HuckleB]

4. You're welcome.

:toast:

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. The problem with this is... that one does not exclude the other

moreover, you can be MEDICALLY loon as a toon, but legally be held responsible.

Oh and it can stil be political. In fact, IT IS a political act.

[HuckleB]

6. What about the piece indicates an opinion that "one excludes the other?"

:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. His is a violence problem.

The author is ignoring the paranoia... among other things.

Now I can almost bet this will end up with him facing the music in the trial and avoiding the ultimate punishment in the penalty phase. And not just my opinion, but that of actual lawyers.

[HuckleB]

16. Try reading the piece.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I did

And he is still ignoring a lot of things..

It is a COMBO.

[HuckleB]

28. I don't think you read the piece.

And stating cliches doesn't make your case.

[HEyHEY]

11. I agree

Seems people want to start some knew kind of mental illness classification for those who are violent and mentally ill. It's a joke.

[pnwmom]

3. How about "he has a violence problem AND he's mentally ill."

Obviously, only a small number of the mentally ill ever become violent (except perhaps to themselves). OTOH, his mental illness appears to be intimately connected with HIS violence and with his twisted political views.

[iamtechus]

5. Being violence-prone is a mental illness. (nt)

[pnwmom]

7. But being mentally ill doesn't mean you will be violence prone. n/t

[Mojeoux]

9. He's a Phoney! He's playing Crazy Guy and using the real mentally ill.

I think he thinks he is scamming everyone that he is insane. They defiantly have the death penalty in Arizona. Pleading some combination of babble and drivel is his way to get declared incompetent.

[pnwmom]

10. I don't think so. This crazy "scam" has been going on for years. n/t

And even if he is paranoid schizophrenic, that won't get him declared legally incompetent. The standard now is not whether he could control himself, but whether he knew what he was doing and could plan out his crime -- and he clearly could.

[udbcrzy2]

12. I think he's just an evil man

He hasn't said he is a nut, his attorney is going to. AZ does have the death penalty, but he's being charged right now at the Federal level. He can still face DP charges in AZ for the other murders. Not sure if they are going to wait and see how the Federal trial goes first and if they don't nail his ass, then convict him in the State court.

If they find that he has a mental disorder, that doesn't mean that he is off the hook. Mentally ill does not mean insane. This is going to take a long time to get to trial.

[blueamy66]

15. He's being sent back to Tucson for trial(s)

He'll def get the death penalty, which is good.

[NuclearDem]

13. He's a phony! A BIG FAT PHONY!

[Mojeoux]

27. Fat People can lose weight, but this guy will always be a stupid, evil, deluded mistake of nature.

In his head, he was deluded that he wouldn't get death penalty if he takes crazy photos and babbles his drivel. He may be wrong, but he thought this was a game.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Here is how it will play, according to lawyers

In the trial phase...not guilty by reason of insanity will not play...why? All that premeditation...

In the penalty phase it might avoid the death penalty, regardless heis staying behind bars for the rest of his life. Like Kaszunsky, once they do the psych screen, will take months, the defense will know how much they have for this.

[joeunderdog]

22. No it isn't.

Certainly not the kind of major mental illness that the Court recognizes as an excuse for behavior.

The jails are filled with people who have character disorders, Anti-social, Borderline, whatever.

[cali]

14. so most had no mental health treatment translates to not mentally ill?

that's some deeply flawed "logic".


I think the guy is massively delusional.

[HuckleB]

18. Read the whole piece.

[MahayanaLotus]

17. Violence is a mental health problem...in part

Although not exclusively since underling self-hatred (a loss of spiritual insight) gets triggered when the potential controller gets media mirrored and "snap" goes the weasel.

[cbdo2007]

19. Anyone who would shoot 20 people has a mental health problem.

[RedCloud]

24. Required sign for all military outposts!

[cbdo2007]

26. ha ha, I agree!!

I don't know how the soldiers do it. Maybe I just don't love my country enough but shooting anyone is just not on my "to do" list.

[Johonny]

23. wait return to the gold standard is a fringe idea?

There are active politicians in office in Congress that ran on that issue! Has no tea party candidate complained about government mind control...

wasn't it Bachmann (that of Tea party state of union response tonight) that warned us of "re-education camps where they endure mind control"
Whoever wrote this wants to pretend these ideas aren't in the mainstream and more importantly in our current congress! You don't have to look at the fringe of politics for these ideas you only have to look at your elected leaders.


I can't tell the difference between the rantings of an mad man and what passes for ordinary tea party political rhetoric. Sorry.

[Maru Kitteh]

25. That's a grievously dishonest representation of the article contents. n/t