Young Guy Down The Street

[MineralMan]

was complaining about not being able to find a job. I asked him what he did, and he said he's a house framer. Since I'm 65, I told him I could pay him for clearing my driveway and sidewalks whenever it snowed. His answer was, "Fuck that! I'm not going to shovel snow for money. I'm a skilled carpenter." Unfortunately for him, there's not a lot of new home construction going on around here, especially in the middle of Winter.

So, I just said, "OK." I guess I'll keep shoveling my own snow. But, there are a number of people on just my block who would gladly pay for snow removal this winter. Seems like a guy could get some cash out of that. Seems like...

[dionysus]

1. uh oh...

:popcorn:

[TBF]

24. no kidding.

:beer:

Might as well have a drink with the popcorn ...

[Name removed]

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[Liberal_in_LA]

104. lol n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. And Ronald Reagan saw him at the grocery store using food stamps and driving a Cadillac!

Oops. That's a different lazy poor people story. :hide:

[Hello_Kitty]

5. LOL!

:thumbsup:

[eleny]

11. Let me guess - they were buying steaks 'n smokes with those stamps

[ret5hd]

12. Probably driving his wife to get a recreational abortion.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. At a spa!

I told a wingnut online that we liberals not only approved of abortions, we got them in spas along with massages and manicures. So the wingnut asks me for the address of the spa! LOL

[RainDog]

43. but the same mindset. n/t

[H2O Man]

61. I'll bet he keeps

getting pregnant on purpose, too. Just for food stamps and hair extentions.

[Marr]

101. No kidding.

How transparent can this shit get?

[QC]

102. I bet he was wearing a fur coast, too! n/t

[lunatica]

3. Give him time. Sometimes it's hard to be humiliated by life

I remember feeling I was too good to do menial jobs. That was a long time ago.

[ensho]

4. good old male ego

nt

[Cali_Democrat]

70. This has nothing to do with gender

I find your comment sexist.

[ensho]

80. 'guy' means male last I heard

nt

[Ineeda]

6. Similar situation here.

Relative of SIL needs work and is ineligible for UI. I have need of a handyman (minor electric and plumbing repair, gutter cleaning, etc.) and have lots of neighbors in the same boat. I refuse to chase him to offer my help. HE needs to do the stepping up. He could make a nice living in this area of retirees and elderly, including many widowed and no-longer-able-bodied. Many here are well-off, too, and though somewhat skin-flinty, would pay a fair wage.

[pintobean]

7. I'd do it, but

the commute would really suck.

[SpiralHawk]

8. That RepubliWhiner needs to pull himself up by his own, um, toolbelt

...or whathaveyou...

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. How do we know he's a republican?

[MineralMan]

54. I have no idea what his politics are. Don't know him that well.

[My Good Babushka]

9. When my husband was out of work

he shoveled the 65 year old neighbors' walks and driveways for free. It's the nice, neighborly thing to do.

[MineralMan]

56. Yah. I clear the driveway and walks for a woman in her 80s

after every snow. I'd have paid this guy to do that one too. After the snowplow goes by, I clear the windrow off the ends of four driveways, too, because the people who live there are at work, and I hate to see them have to do it after work. I get paid in cookies a couple of times a year.

On the other hand, when I need someone to grab my mail when I'm out of town, those neighbors are glad to help. This is not about that.

[Fuddnik]

78. I tried doing that for the old goat living next to my parents.

We had a snow blower, so it was no big deal for me to walk a little further and get his walks and drive.

The third time I did it, he came over bitching that the snow from our driveway was hitting the side of his brick house (No windows on that side) and would discolor the brick. He never did acknowledge or thank me for doing his walks and drive for free.

I said "fuck you, as far as I'm concerned now, you can slip and break your neck".

[madmom]

10. I have a family member (not by choice) who quit her job at

McD's because it was beneath her. This female does NOT have a high school diploma, owes several thousand $ in back child support and has the gall to say that. I wanted to slap her. I, along with several others, think it has something to do with the fact that her "boss" was twenty-something and not being able to handle her being younger (family member is early 30's) and an authority figure.:mad:

edited to add.. she lasted 2 whole days!

[MedicalAdmin]

25. Who did she vote for?

Does she listen to limpballs or beckerhead?

[madmom]

30. She says she's a dem, but she doesn't vote. She doesn't watch or listen to any news, she

watches soaps and game shows and is on face book all day. Not that I think limpballs or his side kick are news.

[dkf]

13. Isn't half his problem that he isn't open to innovation?

Maybe we HAVE lost the ability to do what we need to do to survive.

[ensho]

15. he probably doesn't know what the word innovation means

nt

[TBF]

22. What we need to do to survive -

Clue: it is not shoveling snow for pennies. Although the young man could certainly shovel snow for a neighbor for free - it would be a nice thing to do.

But this is what we need to do to survive the class war:

[Hannah Bell]

37. +100

[Poboy]

86. NOW we're talking.

[Shandris]

93. Gather together conveniently in a single place so a staged, faked...

...act of violence can discredit our whole movement?

No thanks, that seems self-defeating to me.

[hfojvt]

14. a job would probably pay him over $600 a week plus benefits

it's kinda hard to make that much money shovelling snow. How much were you gonna pay him each time it snowed?

Back in 1995 after I quit/got laid off from the satellite dish factory I had a contract to shovel snow. The agreement was that I would get paid $15 every time it snowed. Not bad money for 45 minutes of work. Except for the time we got ten inches and I was out there twice for a total of about 5 hours. I asked for $30 because I went out twice to shovel. I think he gave me $25.

Then there were the little snows. Anything under an inch I figured should only get me $10 because I could just sweep it off. Except that every time it snowed 1 - 3 inches the guy would complain about paying $15 even though that was what he agreed to pay when I started.

And you really don't make a living that way. So I only did it for one winter.

[dkf]

18. It's not about making a living but about figuring out how to survive.

We are so paralyzed by being stuck in the old paradigm. Is that the kind of thinking that creates new businesses and new jobs?

[hfojvt]

34. people want and expect to do more than survive

that's probably what he was promised as he was growing up - not a life of hard work and struggle, but a life of luxury and better and better things as long as he obeyed the rules. Which he did. He went to school and learned carpentry skills. So where is his piece of the American Pie?

[sufrommich]

35. Do you think people who work in factories or any other job

that requires" hard work and struggle" grow up dreaming of doing those kinds of jobs?

[hfojvt]

36. there's a big difference

between "working hard at your job" - a job that provides a decent living, and "working hard to just scratch out survival"

[Brickbat]

49. Many of them do. It's a job where they can work 8 hours a day, get paid a good wage, and go home

without bringing any shit home with them like folders and files and cell phones. Two weeks of vacation, enough money for a place on the lake or to send the kid to college. Those were good jobs, and now many of them are gone. Some are still around, though, and many people look for those kinds of jobs.

[Hannah Bell]

38. easy to figure out how to survive. steal like the big boys do.

[RainDog]

46. many people are not surviving on the "new paradigm"

because it includes no health care, no living wage.

frankly, to suggest that so many people are suffering because of one anecdotal remark would be like taking someone seriously as a voice of liberalism if that person used to post on a conservative site and, on that site, talked about "stereotypical black women" to indicate those who voted for Obama. It's a joke - a sick joke.

[dkf]

83. I'm just wondering how innovation takes place in that mindset.

Only by working through corporations?

[RainDog]

89. that's been my argument for universal health care for ages

health care ties people to a corporation who might, instead, go out and start businesses of their own. but people with families have to take things other than themselves into consideration.

the way health care is set up at this time - it provides unfair leverage from corporations over people's lives.

and, this is another important truth.

not everyone is going to go out an create the next widget that we don't really need anyway. this is just the basic reality of life. those who do not, however, should not be subject to some Hobbesian corporate fucktasia - Ayn Rand centerfold and all (bleeeeeech... brain bleach)

Americans, in their juvenile arrogance, however, think they are always going to be the exception to the rule. sometimes they are. sometimes they aren't. whether they are or they aren't, they shouldn't be so ridiculously infantile to think that they are the favorite of the mommy universe and therefore are a special case while joe blow should go without decent health care, housing and way of life.

it is a source of constant amazement to realize the level of stupidity in the general population that will believe, over and over, the sucker stories of the person who did it on his or her own - no one does "it" on his or her own and never has. It's like thinking George W. ever earned any fucking thing he ever got. right.

but that stupid sort of thinking is what has made it possible for corporations and their toadies to undermine unions and collective action.

and the whole nation is a sorrier place because of it.

[dkf]

92. Yeah I don't see how we survive without universal health care that cuts margins.

Medicare is what drives the fiscal train wreck.

[RainDog]

95. northern european nations have outperformed the U.S.

during the recession while having cradle to grave health care and a social safety net.

they have also positioned themselves, over the last decade, to move to alternative energy resources (1/3 of energy for Germany, for instance) rather than pander to oil cos. and, thus, have also moved to make themselves better prepared for the immediate future for energy costs.

they retrain workers for new industries. they have unions that are included in co. decisions.

I guess I don't see where you have any facts to back up the claim that health care drives a fiscal train wreck unless you have a govt that is so ineffective it doesn't fund its services by expecting the wealthy to consider themselves a part of the nation that made their success possible.

but, that's the problem in the U.S.

Stats about the success of western social democracies have been there for years and years and yet we continue to hear bullshit about how health care is unaffordable.

it's only unaffordable when corruption is more important than the welfare of a nation's citizens.

[Sal Minella]

19. It's disgusting how cheap some people can be -- I agreed to edit

a book of essays for a guy for a flat fee of $50 -- involved a lot of rewriting, hours and hours more than I had expected, but I honored the verbal contract.

Then he decided to "substitute" these essays for those essays -- and expected me to rewrite the additional sections for no additional cost. He lived in a huge fancy home, but felt compelled to screw me out of a few dollars.

I was angry then, but feel sorry for him now.

[MineralMan]

50. The rate around here for snow removal is about $20/hr.

He has a snowblower. So, he'd make about $30 for 1.5 hours of work, which is what it takes me to do. Beats the hell out of $0 per hour, I think.

[Uben]

16. The son of a good friend was a framer.....

...when the work ran out,he found a job as an entry level machinist. That's what you do. I framed houses when I was young, later became a machinist and spent 25 yrs as an apprenticed gear machinist. I made damned good money, and every time I needed a job (due to lay-off or plant shutdown), the jobs found me! It's nice being practically able to name your own salary, and I had the opportunity twice because of the sheer rarity of skilled gear machinists. Never be afraid to learn something new, especially if someone is willing to train you on the job.

[Sal Minella]

17. When you feel none-too-secure about the worth of your

accomplishments, it's really hard to face the idea that your accomplishments may not be worth much.

I vividly remember working hard to learn typesetting at the newspaper, and then when I was transferred to the front office of a different in-house newspaper, the editor walked in the first morning and said, "Oh boy, I've always wanted a secretary."

I just went ballistic on the poor guy, making it very clear to him that I was a typesetter, not a secretary.

Your framer-neighbor is already feeling horrendously useless, is my guess, and he can't accept the idea that he's now a menial laborer.

I think one has to be a certain age to realize menial labor is good when that's all there is.

[JuniperLea]

27. A certain age...

I had that thought as well. My grandparents are from the midwest; I think region has something to do with it as well. I was born and raised in California, but I was raised by people who were raised in Iowa. I think that makes my perspective a little different than many.

[sufrommich]

29. It's more than just being a certain age to realize menial labor

is better than nothing, it's a class thing too. There are a lot of so called leftist here who scoff at the very idea that someone with an education should ever have to lower themselves to working with their hands.Most working class people do what they can to survive financially during bad economies and have for a very long time.

[Hello_Kitty]

31. True. And there are also those of us who have spent enough time around members of the ruling class

To know how much disdain they have for people who do menial labor.

[Hannah Bell]

42. oh baloney.

[JuniperLea]

20. I know someone who actually QUIT his job...

It was a good job... insurance underwriting. He was smart at it and usually got all his work done by 2 in the afternoon. Short hours, good pay. Some boss said something he didn't like, and he quit. He looked for work for the past year, and had all sorts of comments about how people were condescending to him in interviews or how he was clearly a lot smarter than the prospective boss. That, I do believe, clued me into the lousy way he performed in those interviews. He finally accepted an IT/Admin Assistant job. It took a lot of pain and personal suffering before he came to understand what the current employment climate is all about.

But I also know people who are willing to do just about anything to put a few lentils on the family table and a stick of wood in the fireplace.

My heart goes out to all concerned.

I know we've talked about this before... those of us who know how to make something out of nothing, who know how to repair things, or make them from scratch, who learned important lessons at the feet of our family elders who survived The Great Depression, we are the new survivors.

I'm cutting back more and more all the time. Even the Goodwill is getting fewer items from me this year. I went through the bag and found a few sweaters and blouses that I could mend or otherwise zazz up. I work in a professional office, and despite my penchant for jeans and t-shirts, or shorts and tank tops, I have to don the corporate costume every day. That costume is getting more and more expensive all the time and I can't justify my new clothes purchases to myself, even though it's expected that I look right every day. I even got some new heels and insoles for four pairs of dress shoes. I'm going to squeeze another year out of this stuff or know the reason why!

There are lazy people in the world; it has always been so. I don't agree with the current GOTP "hammock" meme at all, however, and I think the truly lazy among us are coming to a harsh awakening. I think the GOTP is looking to "decrease the surplus population."

[sufrommich]

21. It's become common here in my part of Michigan .Lots of

people out there mowing lawns and clearing snow to make some money. I'm not sure why you're getting snark for this,I think some people here look down on manual work.

[MineralMan]

51. House framing is manual work, too. I've done it. It's hard work.

I'm not sure why the snark, either. I'm too old to do that stuff for a living any longer, but I've done my share of manual labor in difficult times.

[dugaresa]

23. every day i turn down people who come by looking to shovel my drive for money

and i am not talking kids. each time it snows there are men who come along with pickups with blades and with shovels to work.

there is nothing wrong with it and it is generally a cash only type business.

i turn them away because i have teenagers who do the shoveling.

[jwirr]

26. Recently a couple kids walking through the parking lot at a senior

high rise were offered a job clearing the parking spot for my friend. She is in her 80s. She had the shovel and all it would have taken was about 5 minutes. They looked at her and laughed. "We don't do that kind of work". I fear that we are raising a some very good repugs.

[MedicalAdmin]

28. Work is work.

That young man will realize that some day, or he won't. I wish him luck.

[guitar man]

32. out of curiosity

How much did you offer to pay him? I'm not rich but anytime I hire someone to do odd jobs around my place I try to structure it where the person doing them can make $12-15 an hour if they hustle. Any less than that and I'll do it myself, I don't feel right about having people do my work for pennies.

[MineralMan]

52. I offered him $20/hr. That's what I consider the job to be worth.

[guitar man]

57. Shit, where do you live

I'll come shovel it for that!! :hi:

[MineralMan]

58. I can do it myself. I was just trying to help a guy out. After he

said no, I did it myself.

[guitar man]

68. I know, I was jk

But it's a good thing you were trying to do and don't let anybody tell you different

[seabeyond]

107. i pay, or i would, 15 to clear out gardens. i have lots. lots of hours. cant find someone

i was able to get one person and he did it ONE day. i even gave a tip beyond the 15 cause they had worked hard and did well. i was so appreciative. BUT people not working, that want to borrow, i tell them they can work around house and i will pay, and it never happens.

[Ignis]

33. BOOTSTRAPS!

:eyes:

[RainDog]

39. funny. in my town, there are people with masters degrees hauling people's trash

and doing many other jobs for which they are far overqualified to do. people working part time because no full time work is available - but trying to get a foothold or keep one in their fields, too.

I know dozens of people like this.

for every anecdotal story about someone who doesn't want to do this or that, there are just as many and more about people who are working without a living wage and with no health care in this nation.

it doesn't "seem like" this is true.

this is true and I can verify dozens of their stories.

they're all hard working people who put up with daily humiliation because the govt is too fucking scared of corporations and creepy old rich motherfuckers to create an nation that funds education and infrastructure.

[RainDog]

40. when it snowed recently

I had multiple men come to my door and offer to shovel my driveway and sidewalk because they were out of work and trying to earn money any way they could.

I didn't know those guys. but every time it snows this happens.

[Brickbat]

47. He complained about not being able to find a job. What you suggested was not a job, and I find his

response completely legitimate.

[MineralMan]

53. OK. You're right. It was about an hour and a half's work.

I offered him $20/hr. I did it myself. The idea was that the guy needed money, and I had some and a job that needed doing. Apparently he didn't need the money enough, I guess. I was trying to help.

[fishwax]

87. +1

[Name removed]

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[Fla_Democrat]

55. Maybe his Union don't allow

for side jobs or to take non-union work. :evilgrin:

1-1 on 1-1, Solidarity brothers. :rofl:

[Maru Kitteh]

59. Wow. Sounds like his sparkling personality might be costing him a shot at employment, too.

How rude.

[H2O Man]

60. sure

[Odin2005]

62. Ugh, where is this? Here in MN us young folks would have no problem with that.

[MineralMan]

71. Saint Paul. Actually, there are lots of guys who work construction

who do snow removal during the winter. I've hired them sometimes when I've been under the weather. I was offering this guy $20/hr. Seems fair to me. After he refused the work, I did it myself, which was why I was outside in the first place. Took 1.5 hours. He'd have made $30. He didn't. That's what happened.

It seems like every other pickup in St. Paul has a blade on it and a construction worker behind the wheel, supplementing his income in the winter. It's not like it's some sort of slave labor.

[NNN0LHI]

63. Guys have signs up town around here offering to do such work

Snow shoveling, gutter cleaning, lawn mowing, power washing, anything.

Don

[sufrommich]

67. Here too and it's been going on for at least a decade. Funny that

now that it's affecting more than just the auto industry factory rat, it's a big problem.

[MineralMan]

72. They do here, too. Lots of guys who work construction do snow

removal in the winter. This guy was a neighbor, so I thought I'd offer him the work since he was complaining about not having work. He didn't want the work, so I did it myself. That's why I was outside in the first place. It didn't matter to me. I can do the job. I was just offering some work to someone who sounded like he needed it. That's why I was surprised at his response. I've done house framing. It's hard work.

[Dappleganger]

64. He could have just said no thank you.

His response (if that's indeed what he said to you) was rude.

Also, you don't owe him a job, only kindness.

[Swamp Rat]

74. That was my first thought too.

A 'thanks but no thanks' would have been nice.

[Obamanaut]

65. So there ARE jobs that some Americans won't do. Who knew. nt

[Union Scribe]

66. What's your point?

[MineralMan]

69. My point was to relate a story.

I offered to pay someone who was unemployed for some work. He turned me down. It's something that happened. I'll leave you to form your own opinion about it.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Gold Metal Flake]

73. We can't bust heads like we used to. But we have our ways.

One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt. Which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say. Now where was I... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

[Swamp Rat]

77. LOL!

That reminds me, I'd sure like to finish a project idea I had decades ago about about building a valve amplifier. It started years ago, after a friend gave me a whole paper bag full of 12Ax7 series vacuum tubes, and probably some 6L6s.... dang! Now where did I put all those tubes?... I have lost so many things since hurricane Katrina, but I digress. I had all these tubes, see, but didn't want to throw away all the extras, so I decided I should build an amplifier in order to use up the tubes. I had, by that time, already sold the Marshall and Peavey amp heads and bought a Crate solid state amp, and an even better Roland solid state amp for acoustic guitars. You see, I had since made the switch from playing rock and jazz guitar to classical guitar, so I changed my equipment, but I am starting to think a valve amp might sound good with an acoustic instrument.... or, actually, I really would like to experiment with a valve pre-amp for plying live and recording, but those old tubes probably are not good enough because... :D

[XanaDUer]

97. Lol!

nt.

[Fuddnik]

75. Was that after you yelled at him to get off your lawn?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[orleans]

76. it would be nice if he would do it as a favor to you -- just to help you out

a little bit.

i have a problem with my back and shoveling is difficult for me. it would be great if the guy or the teenager next door would do me the favor of clearing off my driveway with their snowblower when they do their driveway.

i remember helping people out with stuff like this when i was younger

how nice it would be if my neighbor had the same ... whatever it was.

how nice it would be if your neighbor down the street had that same whatever as well.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[MrMickeysMom]

88. How's that?

Sounds like a similar story.

Guy down the street, lives with his mother. He somehow spent $2,000 on one of those little tractors that removed snow. I told him I'd do up a flyer and helped him word it. I gave him advice on wording, and advised that he should advertise by making a deal, then continuing to market himself.

He actually thought he could charge 20 bucks as his introductory snow plowing, only placing one flyer near the mail box front door area of the neighborhood. He couldn't understand why he'd have to do it more than once, and never got a bite from anyone else on his investment "business" of snow plowing.

Moral here and with Mineral Man's scenario, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't fix the lazy and stupid. His mom's money and my assistance did little good, and the last time I saw him, he was basically getting drunk a lot and bothering my other neighbor. Oh, yes... he also doesn't vote and complains to me about what the municipality should do.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

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[Bluenorthwest]

90. So a man needs a job, you offer a chore and you do not see

that the two things are not the same? I have needed jobs in the past and I never would have taken kindly to being offered $20 to do a chore. Older man offering cash when not asked for cash? just saying man, you need to use your words very carefully. Make sure when you say snowblower, you really hit the snow part. I kid, but not completely. He's a kid, you say. Who needs a career and you offer him $20. For some blower work. Do I have this right?

[Name removed]

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[Raine]

94. Give him a few weeks and he'll probably comimg around practically

begging to do the work when he still hasn't found a job.

[cottonseed]

96. I love listening to retired boomers bemoan the work habits of the young folk.

[tekisui]

98. I don't believe you.

[Marr]

100. Maybe he'd be willing to troll the internet with right-wing narratives.

I hear there's money in it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

103. So one guy turns down your offer and that means....

what, exactly?

My age 55+ friends who were unemployed long-term DID do whatever odd jobs came along, when such jobs came along. I even subsidized a couple of them by hiring them to help with chores.

[CreekDog]

105. Maybe if everyone shovels snow for you we can be more like the Egyptian economy

:hi:

[shimmergal]

106. It isn't always laziness or false pride.

I don't know if anyone even feels this way about snow shoveling, but...

When I was unemployed, I turned down opportunities to houseclean. I hate doing it even for myself, and I knew I'd do a lousy job of it, no matter how much I needed the money. OTOH, I was always delighted to get a babysitting job, because it's important work, no matter how low-paying, and I enjoy interacting with most kids.

So, it's not always that the job is below your skill level or doesn't pay enough. There may be other factors involved.