I'm sick of the DLC. A rant.

[white_wolf]

I am so sick and tired of Democrats acting like Republicans and passing Republican polices in the name of "centralism and the Third Way." I am tired of seeing politicians from both parties try to out conservative the other. What happened to the real Democratic party? These DLCers have a party for them its called the GOP so they need to go join it and quit corrupting our party with their ideas. I am pissed off that I heard a Democratic president talk about lowering corporate taxes, I mean what the hell? I don't want a "big tent" party it isn't good for the country at all. We need a real liberal party and the DLC needs to go and take back the Republican party they would be doing the country a big service. The DLC and their supporters say "Oh were moderate Democrats not radical Leftists." To that I say its insane that supporting traditional Democratic party ideals makes you a radical leftist. I guess FDR was one of those radical leftists who has no place in today's party. So I'm just going to say it DLC politicians and supporters please for the good of America leave our party and take back the Republican party. You aren't doing the U.S any good by moving us to the Right your hurting the country, so please go!

[fadedrose]

1. Rachel explained that corporate tax thingy

that the President proposed lowering...

She said: Nobody pays corporate taxes. She said that GE, her company, pays NO corporate taxes. The way it's structured, no corporation has to. It was a speech gimmick. She was very pleased about it, because it sounded good. Go Rachel!

R

[white_wolf]

3. Thanks for letting me know about that..

I really wish I could watch her, but I just have basic cable so I don't get MSNBC. I get Fox though lucky me :sarcasm:

[fadedrose]

8. I have never been there, but..

Rachel is alwsys directing people to go to her blog. It has everything she says on the show on it, plus more. Being I get her on TV, I don't bother. It's probably on the MSNBC site.

She did an interesting bit about the President going "centrist." She said that he's cutting a NEW center, that is more to the left, because both sides have competed going further to the right of center, so he seems to be cutting a new center.

It made sense the way she explained it.

[RKP5637]

7. Yep, I thought she did an excellent job. If we lowed corp. taxes for some of

these guys anymore, we would have to be making payments to them. This country has become a very strange place with regard to taxation and the escapees with megabucks whining about taxes. And many Americans are so damn duped by the rhetoric by all parties.

[fadedrose]

15. Yep, the loopholes are where he intends to get more money from corporations..

not from corporate taxes as they stand now. See No. 6 below....

[RKP5637]

20. Yep, saw that, Statistical did a nice explanation. I can just hear the corporate

machinery gearing up to fight Obama on this with all the falsehoods and rhetoric they can spin out.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[white_wolf]

5. The problem with a Labor Party is

I don't think it will do any good. There are several Third parties that focus on helping people. The Green Party, and Socialist Party come to mind as examples, but they don't do any good because Third Parties get no support. I honestly think our only real chance is taking back the Democratic party but honestly I'm at a loss as to how to do it.

[TBF]

9. A labor party is the ONLY thing that is going to help short of

revolution. The inroads the communists made with working folks in the 1920's-30's brought the pressure that FDR answered with the new deal. Our only hope is that we re-create that again.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. The problem is that there's a tacit agreement among the MSM

to shut third parties (unless they're right wing) and leftist political actions out of coverage.

Get 500 leftists demonstrating on one side of town and 50 rightists demonstrating on the other, and guess who will get the coverage. Or worse yet, the leftists will just be shown "demonstrating"--and the media will focus in on the weirdest looking people they can find--while the rightists will be interviewed and asked to share their views.

Propaganda: It works, and it's so pervasive that we don't even notice it. This is, after all, the country that pioneered the modern advertising industry.

[RKP5637]

26. Yep, we see/hear that kind of crap so much. The MSM in this country today is

getting so similar to cold war propaganda and yet many spin to the corporate contrived MSM and fall hook line and sinker for whatever they spin, almost always RW or RW tinged.

[Freddie Stubbs]

4. FDR never sought to exclude people from the party who didn't agree with him on 100% of issues

[white_wolf]

10. I never said he did.

We can disagree and still work together on some issues, but when we have a large segment of our party that goes against our core principles then we have a big problem. I firmly believe the DLC is opposed to Democratic ideals and does the party no good.

[TBF]

13. And FDR was no radical - he only responded to pressures of the time.

We aren't scaring the uber-wealthy because our strong labor/communist folks are gone. Our only hope at regaining ground is to re-build the left. A real left, not what passes as "left" these days.

Of course we can't do so on this website - have to do that elsewhere. But that is what it will take.

[white_wolf]

16. I'm not saying he was a radical

sorry if it came across that way. I just meant now days he would be called a radical leftist by the DLC it seems.

[TBF]

19. Yup, he sure would. They are very reactionary types,

pro-business, anti-people.

[RKP5637]

27. So would even Eisenhower IMO. n/t

[Statistical]

6. You should educate yourself on Obama tax proposal.

Our current corporate tax system is horribly unfair. Some companies pay nothing. As in $0.00. The marginal rate is very high but there are huge billion dollars (sometimes hundred billion dollar) deductions. If you have the power and influence to lobby for a credit/deduction/exemption you can pay nothing in taxes regardless of how much profit you make (GE, Exxon, and dozens of other massive companies pay no corporate taxes). If you are smaller then you pick up the slack with the HIGHEST CORPORATE TAX RATE IN THE WORLD.

Rate by itself is useless. Imagine if you raised the corporate tax rate to 99.999999% and then gave each company a $1 trillion deduction. You would collect nothing in taxes.

What Obama wants to do is remove loopholes, deductions, credits, etc and lower rate in a revenue neutral manner. Revenue neutral is the important part; total revenue collected will be the same but it will be collected evenly. It will allow good companies to pay similar tax rates as those who are corrupt, have huge lobbying arms, and have Goldman Sachs doing their books.

Everyone should support reforming it.

[RKP5637]

12. Excellent explanation! n/t

[polmaven]

23. Now what fun would that be?

Educate ourselves? C'mon! If we did that, it would take away all the good bashing opportunities.

Arranging for corporations to actually pay more just doesn't fit with the "he's really a Republican" meme, now does it?

[emulatorloo]

11. Most Corporations don't pay ANY TAXES. Obama idea is to CLOSE ALL LOOPHOLES so they will all have

pay.

So while he may be arguing to lower the rate, it means that all corps will have to actually pay their taxes.

[white_wolf]

14. Fair enough.

I'll admit I don't know everything about his tax plan. This was more of a rant against the DLC in general, but credit where credit is due this tax plan might work fairly well.

[Erose999]

17. The country club set will never vote (D) . The DLC is wasting its own time and the nation's. They

should go back to the Republican party from whence they came. If they don't like the Bachmanns and the DeMints, primary challenge them on the Republican ticket. They should support Mittens and the other RINO's, work within the GOP to tone down the bigotry and hatespeak.

But, my DLC friends, don't wait until you win on a Democratic ticket and THEN jump ship, like this guy:

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/local_news/7th-ga-democrat-switches-to-gop-20101207-ap-es

[TBF]

18. Here is an OP I did on the DLC and social security -

you might find it interesting (there are some good cites in there that back up your fears about the DLC and their goals):

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TBF/26

An excerpt:

This is not something he came up with yesterday - they've been planning it. This has wall street all over it - who do you think will be making fees off these "universal savings accounts"? Of course this is not new, the DLC has been trying to push this through for quite some time: http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=125&su... (read the entire article - with emphasis on this statement "Maybe the proposal will help both the Left and the Right "get" one of the fundamental tenets of the Third Way: progressive goals can best be achieved through market means.")

Bottom line: Obama has been able to accomplish for the DLC what Clinton was unable to do - they have purged the party of progressive ideas. We are now a party of free market worshipers, supporting union-busting and other free market approaches.

[fadedrose]

21. I like what the President had to day about Social Security...

very comforting, I thought.

He really makes it difficult for the Republicans to attack him when he's so damned nice and polite to them. They don't really know how to confront him - the nicer he is, the higher his ratings are and theirs get lower.

Like the health care law - he mentioned that he's heard (some laughs) that many don't like it. He didn't come out and say they wanted to repeal it, instead he asked for their suggestions to "improve" it, that he welcomes their suggestions. This is very frustrating to them I'm sure.

[former9thward]

24. The Democratic Party has never been a liberal party.

There has never been a Democratic liberal President or even a nominee. Democratic presidents have proposed or put into effect liberal programs here and there but overall every President has governed centrist. Neither the Democratic or Republican parties are ideological in the sense that parties in Europe are ideological. And that is to our detriment. We should have a Labor party, Green party and others who would work together in coalitions. The Democratic Party has always been a party of contradictions. Democrats in the North were calling for civil rights and Democrats in the South were stopping them. Liberal Democrats were calling for an end to the Vietnam War while Democratic mayors were clubbing the heads in of anti-war protesters in Chicago and scores of other cities. A Democratic President was pursuing the Vietnam war while he was pushing his Great Society programs. Always contradictions and always have been.

[white_wolf]

25. And that is the problem.

I think the DLC simply increases contradiction. We do need a real liberal party in the sense of European ones. I think the Democratic party is the best bet we have of creating one simply because it is established. The question is can we take it over the way the Teabaggers have done the GOP?

[kctim]

31. Of course liberals can take the Party over

just as soon as THEY make up the 80% majority and moderates only make up less than 20% minority of the Party.

[Jester Messiah]

28. I'm sick of people thinking we need to thin our ranks in the face of the Teabagger threat.

In this system, the party that gets the most votes wins. That's the bottom line.

[Hannah Bell]

29. BULLSHIT

[Jester Messiah]

30. Oh, well all right then.

Your sheer eloquence has swayed me to your point of view. Well argued indeed. :eyes: