Dennis Kucinich talks about the lawsuit re his tooth injury...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

I just got this email, and there's more to it than you might have first thought:

Regarding Settlement of Dental Injury Law Suit

Dear Friend,

Though I would prefer to focus your attention on my work dealing with the profoundly important issues that face our nation, such as job creation, getting the economy back on track, and ending the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq - it seems that some are more interested in discussing my personal dental issues. Given the degree of public interest you should know some details:

This injury required nearly two years, three dental surgeries, and a substantial amount of money to rectify.

The legal action you have heard about was filed due to the severity, expense and duration of the dental injury, the complications which followed and which still persist. I wanted to resolve this matter without filing a lawsuit. The events below involved numerous dental visits, more than are detailed in this summary.The dental injury set in motion a chain of dental and medical events.

When I bit into the olive pit, (unbeknown to me at the time), upon impact the tooth split in half, vertically through the crown and the tooth, below the level of the bone. Externally there was no evidence of a break. This was not about aesthetics. The internal structure of the tooth was rendered nonrestorable.Although the pain was excruciating, I shook it off and I went right back to work.

This tooth is a key tooth which anchored my upper bridgework. The injured tooth and the bone above it became infected. I took a course of antibiotics for the infection, had an adverse reaction to the antibiotics which caused me to have an intestinal obstruction and emergency medical intervention.

Later, my dentist referred me to a specialist who informed me that the damaged tooth had to be removed. A third dentist removed the tooth and I was fitted for a temporary partial. I waited for the bone to heal. An implant was placed, but it failed. Many months later still a second implant succeeded. My bridgework had to be completely reconfigured, a new partial was designed, so this injury did not affect only one tooth, but rather involved six (6) replacement teeth as well. A new crown with a new precision attachment was engineered and put in place. To clarify, no dental expenses were covered by any health plan, nor did I have dental insurance that covered the injury, which, until it was resolved, affected my ability to chew food properly.

The clamor for information about this incident requires that I provide at least this much information. I would have liked to provide such details sooner but did not want it said that I was trying the case in the media. So that is why I declined any interviews about the matter.The parties have exchanged information and after some investigation and discussion have resolved the matter for an amount all parties believe reflects the actual out-of-pocket expenses related to this incident. The terms of the settlement are confidential; however, I feel that the defendants have responded fairly and reasonably. I don't want to have to make another dental visit for a very long time, and will be making no further comment on this matter.

Thank you very much.
Dennis

I'm not sure about copywrite issues, so I am posting the whole email. If I need to abridge it, please let me know...

[AlabamaLibrul]

1. Some will do anything to attack Kucinich

[sasha031]

6. the librul media has been attacking him for this all week

it's disgusting...

can you imagine what kind of damage an olive pit can do to your mouth.

[fascisthunter]

10. so have many on this forum

but seeing many of their posts from the past, I expected them to jump all over him... not because of this, but because he is a liberal.

[Catherina]

2. Rec'd n/t

[wtmusic]

3. Who did he sue? nt

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. I don't know...

[monmouth]

5. I believe he's suing the company/caterer that runs the cafeteria...n/t

[wtmusic]

8. You've got to be kidding me.

I just lost respect for Dennis Kucinich.

Get a grip, Dennis. Sometimes shit happens. Sometimes expensive shit happens, and you have no one to blame but the Fates and yourself.

OMFG, I thought I'd heard it all.

[LanternWaste]

24. I imagine he will give tha

"I just lost respect for Dennis Kucinich."

I imagine he will give that all the credibility it warrants...

[frylock]

42. and you're the one who thinks the RIAAs draconian policy of fining people up the ass is just dandy..

right? that's you isn't it?

[ClassWarrior]

62. Yes!! Get a grip, Dennis...

...on your ankles, like most of your Dem colleagues, and quit standing up for what's right!!

:eyes:

NGU.

[wtmusic]

72. Agree! We must RISE UP against the millions of unpitted olives

waiting to crack the unsuspecting teeth of other Americans with too much time on their hands!

Onward, comrades, and fight for the sake of our dental future! :patriot:

[niyad]

80. you apparently forgot the sarcasm icon--did you actually READ the letter? seriously, did you?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

9. I believe you're right...I'd forgotten that fact...n/t

[Extend a Hand]

7. on our crappy local news here in the akron/cleveland area

they said the capitol hill cafeteria

[notesdev]

11. I'd be surprised if it wasn't fully covered

He is a US Representative, after all. Doesn't Congress' insurance have full-serve, zero deductible coverage?

[csziggy]

58. Apparently the Congressional health insurance does not cover dental

Just like most private insurance does not unless there is an additional policy.

From his letter:
"To clarify, no dental expenses were covered by any health plan, nor did I have dental insurance that covered the injury, which, until it was resolved, affected my ability to chew food properly."

[former9thward]

76. Congress is covered totally on dental.

http://www.opm.gov/insure/dental/index.asp DK is BSing

[csziggy]

78. Your link says it is available, not that all members are covered

Could DK have opted not to enroll? Or do all members of Congress get all possible benefits automatically? I was simply going by what DK said in his letter and your link does not fully answer this question.

The other part of it is that dental insurance usually does not cover 100%, in fact usually only covers about 50% of costs at best. Since we do not know how much DK settled for, and the amount of the suit was not the actual costs, maybe he was only suing to recover the part the dental insurance did not pay.

I am not a DK fan, I am pretty indifferent to him. But I like to find the facts, not pile on just because there is an opening.

[flvegan]

12. Wait...where the hell are all the folks that were shit talking him yesterday?

Oh, yes. I forgot what happens when one turns the lights on.

[WinkyDink]

17. Yes, where are all the "olive" jokes?

[flvegan]

18. "poster boy for tort reform" Kucinich.

:eyes:

[bluestate10]

53. What do you do when you meet a drop dead looker in a bar?

Drink the martini, nibble the olive.

[underseasurveyor]

36. +++++++++1

YOU I love :loveya:

[bluestate10]

52. Uncontrolled chewing.

Kucinich either has the weakest mouth in existence, or he chews like a raving shark. The fact is, most people can feel when they are biting into a raspberry seed. And you're telling me Dennis could not feel himself biting an olive pit and stop biting? And top it off by suing for $150,000. I have some history, I have had gum reconstruction and surgery of the bone that anchor my teeth, the total was not one 15th of what Dennis is claiming he paid.

[flvegan]

54. I'm not telling you anything.

Facts are facts. And considering the other party has already settled, it's certainly plausible.

As far as what you paid, what he was suing for also includes compensatory damages for his pain and loss of enjoyment. So...

[bluestate10]

55. Like I said, I have had extensive gum and mouth bone surgery. I have some facts behind

my claims. So far, all I see that you have is blind passion. I stand behind my incredulity.

[flvegan]

59. Was your

dental work due to the negligence of someone else?

[bluestate10]

94. No. But that is not the point that I was making.

My dental work was as extensive as what is being described for Kucinich and it did not cost a small fraction of what Dennis is suing for. Even if Dennis' potential loss of enjoyment award was double his actual out of pocket costs, the amount STILL would not come close to reaching $150,000. Kucinich has made himself a joke with this suit and that is to bad, because he is the one person on the House Judiciary Committee that has the balls to stop Issa in his tracks.

[flvegan]

95. Right.

Your point was...what again? Oh, right my blind following of him.

Tell you what sport, some negligent idiot plows into you with their car causing you 3 years worth of pain...don't sue. Then you'll have a point.

[WinkyDink]

64. And it is exactly WHAT to you?

[myrna minx]

70. Yep. That thread was disgusting. n/t

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[REP]

14. Damn. Wish I could afford implants - and I have insurance

It really sounds as though he has a case against his dentist - sounds like a very bad crown/canal.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

15. It does sound that way.

And perhaps he bit down hard, not knowing the olive hadn't been pitted.

Jaws have powerful muscles.

[csziggy]

60. I've cracked two molars, biting down on unpopped popcorn kernels

At different times. Both times, my dentist elected to go for a bridge since the tooth in front of each molar was a baby premolar that had no adult tooth to replace them. Those poor pre-molars had already lasted four decades and were more filling than tooth.

My Mom once broke off the tooth that held her partial bridge in place when she bit into an egg roll.

As you said, jaws have powerful muscles. And as we age our teeth lose enamel and strength and are easier to crack.

[Rex]

16. Wow, poor fella. I know about dental pain and infection.

I've had all kinds of money invested in my teeth and medical complications arose from many a dental procedure. Nothing hurts quite like a crown with a collapsed root canal, infected and causing a unique amount of pain and pressure as the puss builds up in volume in the infected cavity that once housed roots. Maybe a kidney stone comes close in pain comparison.

Get better DK...hope he gets it all worked out. I had to spend all my money on my teeth, with no dental coverage or insurance so it was all out of pocket expense. WORTH every penny!

[apocalypsehow]

19. Just when I think I can't have any less respect for the career & antics of Dennis Kucinich, he

manages to top himself.

[shanti]

28. FAIL

n/t

[apocalypsehow]

30. His grandstanding career - including his quixotic runs for President - have been a massive failure

alright. Thanks for agreeing with me. :toast:

[WinkyDink]

65. Yes, people should have NO RIGHT to run for President if they're just going to LOSE.

Said Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, John McCain, Rev. Jesse Jackson, Ted Kennedy, Fred Harris, John Edwards, Hillary Clinton,.......

[underseasurveyor]

38. Epically

[Ghost in the Machine]

29. I'm sure he is real concerned about your lack of respect

seeing as he doesn't even know you exist.... how's the weather up on that high horse?

[apocalypsehow]

33. Sure: he's no more concerned about my opinion than he is the interests of his constituents,

said interests he has neglected and/or ignored over the course of his career, particularly when he's wasting everyone's time running for President.

[Ghost in the Machine]

37. He must be doing something right to keep getting re-elected, but don't let facts stop your hate

Isn't that one of the great things about our Country, that just about anyone can run for President?

Hmmm, yeah, he's been in the city council, been a mayor, been in the state senate and been in the House of Reps.. look at all those people he "has neglected and/or ignored over the course of his career" that keep voting him back in office. They must just be stupid or something, huh?

[apocalypsehow]

39. It looks like the Ohio legislature is about to remove that option. Perhaps then the people in the

realigned district will get the full-time representation they deserve. :thumbsup:

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

67. IOW: You side with the Republicans.

[underseasurveyor]

41. And you know this how?

Or are you just pulling horse apples out of your arse?
Curious minds 'n all.

[ClassWarrior]

63. They can't all be spineless jellyfish like your heroes, I guess.

NGU.

[WinkyDink]

66. Exactly why do you begrudge him this legal redress?

[WCGreen]

20. Much ado about nothing...

By that I mean making a news story out of something that really isn't a news story...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

22. You can blame the media for that.

I think he did the right thing in revealing the details.

[WCGreen]

25. He had no choice in the matter...

[spanone]

21. i suspected it was something this tragic for him to sue. the media has ridiculed him

fuck the media

[Pedalpower]

23. The lesson: Floss the ones you want to keep.

Seriously, folks. Floss and you'll probably keep your teeth, avoiding the bridges and crowns and the expense and hassle.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

26. Of course, flossing is an important activity.

However, I don't see that it could possibly stop any damage that happens if you bite down on something really hard. Even a healthy tooth will shatter under those conditions.

[wtmusic]

46. Shame on you for accusing a Democrat of bad dental hygiene.

The fault is 100% olive (What...the olive is broke? Then it's the people who put it in the salad!)

[shanti]

27. poor guy!

i had a tooth crack from biting into a muffin with a walnut shell in it. it's a dental emergency and no fun at all. :(

[cbdo2007]

31. Why doesn't he have dental insurance that covers this??

That's really weird. That's the point of dental insurance and I can't imagine him not having it.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

34. He does have insurance...

But somehow there were problems.

And the lawsuit solved them.

[Sienna86]

35. Even great dental insurance only covers half of dental work.

Dental work that is considered "aesthetic" may not be covered at all. And for the surgery, there could be copays that are not covered.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

32. You don't think he should sue the people who injured him?

You people who think nobody should ever sue any one or any corporation who injures them are NUTS.

It's a right we have and sometimes we have to exercise it. We have the duty to sue to make corporations change their harmful behavior (see the McDonald's third degree burns coffee incident). The only way to get their attention is for a jury to assess punitive and exemplary damages. There is no other way to make a corporation change their injurious conduct.

Suing is the only way a person can get compensation for their injuries. And the battle cry of "tort reform" is a false one.

If someone files a frivolous lawsuit, what happens in court? If the judge decides there is no controversy, he can grant the defendant a Motion for Summary Judgment. That means there is no issue to be decided. simple procedure.

I worked at the courthouse in a major metropolitan area for many years and there are not many dog cases filed. It's up to the plaintiff's lawyer to determine if there is a good case or not. he doesn't want to invest his time and money in expenses that he will not get back, if it's a bad case. That is a simple cost/benefit analysis.

Tort reform does nothing but screw the doctors, screw the consumers, and it only benefits the insurance companies. In Texas, the insurance companies told the doctors that their malpractice premiums would go down if they passed tort reform. What happened? The insurance companies continued to screw the doctors. The real problem is that the state medical boards do NOT discipline the bad doctors. I have taken depositions on some horrible cases of malpractice and the doc never got their hand slapped, nor did they get suspended. They just moved to a different state and continued practicing and injuring people.

I don't think caps on actual damages and medical costs are a good idea either, as a person might outlive a few hundred thousand dollars in medical expenses.

Mr. Kucinich has suffered a lot of pain and suffering and he said he had no dental insurance.

If you don't think an injured party should sue the company or person who tortiously injured him, then you are siding with the right of the corporations to run over individual people, when they should be held accountable for their actions and made to pay medical expenses and other damages.

I really don't know where these people get off on not suing in a proper case.

[fascisthunter]

40. I'm Pretty Sure if it Was Them, They'd Sue too

this is about politics... issues are just a means to an end for many. In reality, they'd sue too....

[Bake]

44. I agree 10000000%.

The only thing that keeps most corporations relatively "honest" is the fear of liability from lawsuits! They don't give a fat rat's patoot about government oversight, but they get really scared of JURIES -- just regular people!

Bake, Esq.

[wtmusic]

48. You have no idea what you're talking about.

"If someone files a frivolous lawsuit, what happens in court? If the judge decides there is no controversy, he can grant the defendant a Motion for Summary Judgment. That means there is no issue to be decided. simple procedure."

Nevermind that by the time it gets to that point, defendants have spent $30K in legal fees on the "simple procedure" that they'll never recover. The Capitol cafeteria saw this was going to drag out so they settled for less than what they thought fees would be. Dennis and his attorneys knew they would, whether there was any merit to his case or not.

Your post is the epitome of entitlement thinking: "If something bad happens to me it can't be my careless behavior or chance, it has to be someone else's fault - and only someone who has a lot of money". Dennis blew it - he had no dental insurance, took lousy care of his teeth, and won't take responsibility for it but instead exploits the system. Lame, lame, lame.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

56. I did not say "entitlement thinking".

I said nothing about not taking responsibility for your own actions. This was a case where the chain of causality was obvious and immediate (fractured tooth).
There are hundreds of years of case law establishing standards of conduct in tort law. Tort law started in England many centuries ago.

I worked as a court reporter for twenty years; I was a legal secretary before that; my dad was an attorney and I grew up reading Southwestern Reporters; I also went to law school at night for five years, while working at the courthouse as a court stenographer and earned a Juris Doctor.

What kind of legal knowledge have you got? You have a very hazy idea of causation and fault. This injury was caused by an olive pit that should have been taken out of the food. The injury was immediate and obvious. You have no idea if Dennis took care of his teeth or not. Biting down on a pit could indeed break a tooth.

He was a "reasonable man" as it is known, in tort law. He should not expect to break a tooth biting down on his lunch. He's not exploiting the system. He is asserting his civil rights in a proper way.

[Joe the Revelator]

73. Agreed and glad you said it. The op of the sub thread has zero idea of how the system is set up.

30k to get a summary judgement is a conservative estimate.

[Ghost in the Machine]

84. How the system is set up has zero relevance in this matter

The only thing that matters is that the cafeteria was at fault for the broken tooth. Period. They sold a defective product that caused an injury. That's the bottom line. It's all about "reasonable expectations". When you buy prepared foods, you have a reasonable expectation to be able to eat it without it causing you any injuries. If I buy a chicken breast filet sandwich, I do not expect to bite into, or choke on, a bone. I might not have that same expectation with a bucket of chicken wings. I don't know what is so hard to understand about this.

[Ghost in the Machine]

81. No, I think you are the one who has no idea what you're talking about

"Dennis blew it - he had no dental insurance, took lousy care of his teeth, and won't take responsibility for it but instead exploits the system. Lame, lame, lame."

If you had read any of the facts of this case, how could you come to the conclusion that he "took lousy care of his teeth"? Seems to me he spent quite a bit of money on his teeth, with implants, caps and bridgework. Just because someone has had to have all this work done, doesn't mean they "took lousy care" of their teeth, either. Genetics and physical ailments can cause bad teeth.

""If something bad happens to me it can't be my careless behavior or chance, it has to be someone else's fault - and only someone who has a lot of money".

What is so careless about ordering a sandwich and expecting to be able to eat it without breaking your teeth? Do *you* pick through and examine your food when you order it, or do you just assume it's safe and go ahead and eat it? The cafeteria screwed up and put an unpitted olive on his sandwich. They were at fault, bottom line, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Why people can't understand this very simple concept is beyond me.

Now, to go one step further, if the cafeteria orders pitted olives and they got a can/bottle that contained pitted olives, they could turn around and sue the packing company/distributor who canned the product and recoup their losses.

[Motown_Johnny]

50. sorry but you are wrong

it is not reasonable to assume that every single pit will be removed from every olive during the canning process.

There will always be a small percentage of olives that won't be pitted. There is no such thing as a perfect system and to sue because the system isn't perfect isn't valid.


If it were a piece of broken glass or a nail (or any other foreign object) then it would be a proper case. It is not reasonable to assume that a foreign object might be in your olive.


If he isn't responsible enough to carry dental insurance then he should be careful about chomping down on something so hard he could hurt himself.


This suit is an embarrassment.

[WinkyDink]

68. The legal resolution would indicate that YOU are the one in error.

[Joe the Revelator]

74. It didn't go to trial, which means it's was a business decsion. Dennis basically extored

Money from the cafeteria

[defendandprotect]

89. It's a private business and they initially refused to pay his expenses ....

but glad to see that after Kucinich went public, they reconsidered!

Your opinion would be worth something if this had happened to you --

[Joe the Revelator]

92. Your last sentence is the silliest thing I've read on here in a long while

Thanks for the laugh.

[defendandprotect]

96. You're laughing at what Kucinich went through? What I'm pointing out to you ...

is you're judging someone else's experience --

but your "laugh" makes your original opinion even more clearly callousness.

[defendandprotect]

88. Most of us recognize how damaging this is -- private businesses have insurance ....

for this purpose --

and all Kucinich asked for was to have his expenses repaid-!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

93. It's reasonable if the case law says it is.

Period.
When you eat you have a right to not bite down on a pit, or to consume things specifically not allowed in food, like foreign material.

Dennis was a "reasonable man". He assumed he had the right to not bite down on a pit. He did and suffered immediate severe injury.

Some people just don't understand our legal system.

[Kingofalldems]

45. Good for Dennis.

Oh yeah!!

[BlueCheese]

47. Sounds like the case was settled.

I don't agree with Kucinich in this case. Why should the people who accidentally missed an olive pit be responsible for all of the dental complications that followed? Sometimes things just happen. Who would want to open a restaurant knowing that a misplaced olive pit might cost you $150,000.

Now there will be notices in all sandwich shops and all canned olives warning that olives may have pits and to be careful.

[WinkyDink]

69. *Sigh* 1. All canned olives do have such labels. 2. You think a sign is a hardship?

[BlueCheese]

75. To answer 2: No, but sometimes it feels over the top.

David Sedaris has written that our national motto should be, "You can't say I didn't warn you."

I remember a TV commercial a few years back in which a truck was depicted driving through a river--down one bank, underwater, and then up the other bank. There was a tag line to the effect of "Special effects. Do not drive underwater." There's a healthy understanding of liability, and then there's too much. As much as I like Kucinich, this was too much.

[Ghost in the Machine]

90. So, in a manner of speaking, you have a problem holding people responsible for their actions?

"Why should the people who accidentally missed an olive pit be responsible for all of the dental complications that followed? Sometimes things just happen."

You would have no problem then, paying for your own car to be fixed, paying for your own medical bills and losing all your pay from time missed from work if someone "accidentally missed" a stop sign, or red light, and and crashed into you, totalling your car and causing you serious bodily injury, right? I mean, hey, "sometimes things just happen", right?

There's some serious disconnect going on in this thread, I've been shaking my head and asking WTF!?!? for 2 days now.

[Raine]

49. THANKS for posting this

it's a lot bigger deal than it seemed at first. I can now understand Kucinich's reason for suing much better.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

51. You're welcome, my dear Raine...

Once I read it, I saw that it was a big deal.

I wanted everyone to understand that fact.

[WillowTree]

57. First Big, Dumb Mistake

"Although the pain was excruciating, I shook it off and I went right back to work."

Hence the infection which he may have avoided had he not ignored the situation. "Excruciating pain" doesn't just happen to annoy us, it means something's wrong and it's just plain stupid to play the tough guy/girl instead of getting it checked out.

Not trying to blame the victim here, and he does have a legitimate complaint, but he's not entirely blameless for the extent of the problems that resulted from the initial injury, either.

[Psephos]

61. Sounds about right to me. n/t

[Earth_First]

79. However, if Dennis HAD taken a leave due to the injury...

He would have been vilified as being 'soft' told to 'suck it up' et al.

Seems to me that most would just rather damn Kucinich if he does, or damn Kucinich if he doesn't...

[KansasVoter]

71. Wow, no wonder people hate lawyers. This sounds fishy to me.

[upi402]

77. Youtube comments were disgusting

I figured he had his side, and glad he told it.

[Codeine]

82. Damn. His mouth is a disaster.

All those bridges and partials! Yikes. :scared:

[KoKo]

85. That's something ...when I look at YOUR MOUTH Avatar. LOL's

:rofl:

[KoKo]

86. K&R...for those of us who know what DENTAL WORK really Costs..and not those who

want to be the Classroom Bullies and laugh at the SUPER STAR KID (with GAZILLION DOLLAR SALARY) who got his teeth knocked out with a hockey puck or sports injury that is gone on about by ESPN for Days and WEEKS about how much "THIS POOR GUY SUFFERED" and on and on about the OTHER SUPER STAR who got hurt and his Knee, Shoulder Surgery that cost him over $200,000 and Everyone is Pushing for him to get well SO HE CAN GET BACK TO THE TEAM...AND WIN THE GAME!

[KoKo]

83. Thanks so much for this "California Peggy!" I knew there was more to this

than what the "Grave Dancers" were saying here on DU about him.

As a "Dentally Challenged" person due to a car accident, I can understand the cost for restoration and pain and suffering he went through. Millions of Americans have NO DENTAL CARE..and, it's NOT part of Obama's Health Care Reform. Dentists can charge for Implants over $6,000 PER IMPLANT PROCEDURE TO FINISHED CROWN and the time spent being toothless as a CongressCritter when you can't talk or your speech is impaired adds up. A partial replacement for missing teeth can cost up to 4,000 and then you have to pony up $4-6,000 per tooth with implant, temporaries to finished crown...and you have expenses that could easily go up over $100,000.

I thought the DU'ers who gloated over this obviously never had to have serious dental work.

:loveya: CaPeggy for posting this.

[defendandprotect]

87. Got the same e-mail today -- bone infection, whole bit -- 6 teeth affected ...

and then the bastards made him go public before they would settle!!

Why does Congress have private people running the cafeteria, anyway?

[Liquorice]

91. I never thought his lawsuit was frivolous, and I was surprised so many

people here did.