Where are the women in the crowds of demonstrators.

[pennylane100]

It always amazes me why this fact is not mentioned by the media when covering events such as those unfolding in Egypt. When this is all over, I fear that, as usual, women will lose whatever freedom they have and a taliban type government will take over their lives. Please let me be wrong.

[blondeatlast]

1. Siiiiigh... There are a few if you look closely.

And do you think those out on the streets are tweeting what's going on? It's very likely the women.

[pnwmom]

4. What is "very likely the women"?

[blondeatlast]

5. Doing the tweeting. nt

[demosincebirth]

2. They are told to stay indoors--women shouldn't demonstrate...I guess.

[blondeatlast]

13. You know this how? nt

[demosincebirth]

47. Pretty obvious, isn't it? All it takes is a little power of observation.

[EFerrari]

18. Nope. Go look at the video. They were everywhere. nt

[blondeatlast]

3. A picture is worth, what, again?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x297312

[pnwmom]

6. And you know she's a protestor because? n/t

[Raine]

10. Headscarf?

possibly :shrug:

[pnwmom]

14. Except people are saying this isn't a religious backed revolution.

For all we know, she could be his mother!

[Raine]

19. Yeah well that's true

hadn't thought about that, she does look like she could have a son that age. :yoiks:

[polly7]

26. Women appear to be in the front line here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41294535/ns/news-picture_stories/displaymode/1247/?beginSlide=1

There are others shown in this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x296146#296368



"Young men in one downtown square clambered onto a statue of Talat Harb, a pioneering Egyptian economist, and unfurled a large green banner that proclaimed "The Middle Class" in white Arabic lettering.

Women dressed in black veils and wide, flowing robes followed women with expensive hairdos, tight jeans and American sneakers.

The crowd included Christian men with keyrings of the cross swinging from their pockets and young men dressed in fast-food restaurant uniforms......."

http://www.trentonian.com/articles/2011/01/28/news/doc4d4368fec34f4654959093.txt?viewmode=4

[riverwalker]

7. there are many women!

I've been seeing women in the photos all day.

[pnwmom]

8. There were many women involved in the Iranian revolution as well.

Didn't quite work out of them, though.

[pennylane100]

9. thank you, that is what I was trying to bring up.

I hope that unlike Iran, when this is all over, women are not again the real losers in the move toward freedom. Usually they are.

[Raine]

16. Yeah and the women haven't fared too well

in Afganistan either after all that has gone on there. :-(

[Turborama]

73. Iran was 1979, relatively ancient history in regards to the information age. Better 1998 example >>>

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x290024

[EFerrari]

23. You could say the same for the American revolution.

lol

[Turborama]

72. My wife was involved in the Indonesian revolution in 1998

True story. She's a successful professional working on equal terms with men and it's worked out really well for her.

Here's an OP I made comparing the 2: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x290024

[Raine]

12. So have I nt

[Raine]

11. I have seen several women

in the live shots. Anyway they were wearing headscrafs and seemed to have women's features and were waving their fists.

[Quantess]

22. And some men are wearing headscarves, too.

I assume it's because they want to stay anonymous.

But yes, I have seen plenty of women in the streets protesting. Most likely they aren't up at the front, where it's more dangerous.

[gkhouston]

15. Being raped by the police in a side street?

post 38...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=295333#295831

[EFerrari]

17. They are all over.

The best video I saw of the protest in Suez this week was a huge demonstration with a woman leading the chants.

:shrug:

[pnwmom]

20. They were all over in the Iranian revolution, wearing their chadors.

I bet some of them came to regret that.

[EFerrari]

24. Do you know when American women were legally able to own property?

[pnwmom]

25. Do you? n/t

[EFerrari]

31. As of today, if I own property in CA, I still can't sell it unless my husband signs off

even if I brought it into the marriage and even if he signs a quit claim deed. Yes, I do know.

[sufrommich]

33. Wouldn't it be the same for your husband? Are you saying the

California law applies only to women?

[EFerrari]

35. The short answer to your question is, while the law doesn't distnguish

the application of the law has distinguished. It's sort of bizarre. We're still being "little womaned" all over the place.

[pnwmom]

34. Oh yeah? So what?

If California voters want to prevent married couples from disposing of personal assets without telling each other, I don't agree with it, but it has nothing to do with the OP.

[EFerrari]

45. No, that isn't the law in Caliornia but it is the practice

because of the way women are treated in our culture.

[AsahinaKimi]

21. Saw several in the crowds wearing full Burka

like this:

[sabrina 1]

36. I saw women dressed like that in a supermarket here in Ca. last week.

And in Egypt, you don't have to look very far to find women protesting the Dictatorship:

[uppityperson]

38. Thank you for those. Most of the picts I've seen were men with a few women

It is good to see these, thank you.

[sabrina 1]

43. You're welcome. Many of the tweets on twitter were from

women helping to organize and reporting that 'everyone, men, women, the elderly, disabled and children were out on the streets'.

I think, as one female blogger from Egypt said, they are very much involved in the protests, in fact many women were beaten by the police.

I also saw women carrying banners supporting women's rights.

I don't think it's possible in today's world to keep women down especially in countries like Egypt where they are exposed to the outside world so much. But even here we have a way to go in some areas like equal pay for equal work, a right that even Iraq had under Saddam, although not any more.

[EFerrari]

27. Watch this video. Lots of women and it's just a random one I found on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_AF1t1KeZ8

[blondeatlast]

29. Off topic: LUV the sig line!

One of the funniest movie lines ever.

[uppityperson]

39. "don't call me stupid"

I agree

[blondeatlast]

28. Being oppressed, just like you were hoping...

Of course, the GOVERNMENT is the oppressor, but still, they are being oppressed (and note--not a burqa in the bunch):

[uppityperson]

41. I'm not hoping they are oppressed, just noticing, like in that crowd pict, 6 women

Knowing Egypt and the rules about men/women mixing and women being out on their own, it doesn't surprise me that there are only 6 women in that crowd and they are in a line in the front.

What a day for them all, hoping for the best outcome for them.

[Turborama]

44. Here's another one...

[Hannah Bell]

30. i saw several on tv tonight. and more in photos. so you must not be looking hard enough.

[Catherina]

32. Women Are a Substantial Part of Egyptian Protests

Women Are a Substantial Part of Egyptian Protests
Posted Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:03 PM | By DoubleX Staff



A post from DoubleX writer Jenna Krajeski:

An unprecedented number of Egyptian women participated in Tuesday’s anti-government protests. Ghada Shahbandar, an activist with the Egyptian Organization for Human Rights, estimated the crowd downtown to be 20 percent female. Other estimates were as high as 50 percent. In past protests, the female presence would rarely rise to 10 percent. Protests have a reputation for being dangerous for Egyptian women, whose common struggle as objects of sexual harassment is exacerbated in the congested, male-dominated crowd. Police hasten to fence in the demonstrators, and fleeing leads to violence. And women, whose needs are not reflected in the policies of official opposition groups who normally organize protests, have little reason to take the risk.

...

Alia Mustafa El Sadda, a 20-year-old law student at Cairo University, went to protest with her mother, aunt, and two younger sisters, ages 13 and 16. El Sadda told me that the demonstrations were the “only chance” for change. Her aunt is an activist, but for El Sadda and the other women, this was their first protest.

...

http://www.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/women-are-substantial-part-egyptian-protests

...

The actions of the police and security forces incited the protestors to respond by setting fire to tyres, cars and finally government buildings.

The brutality of the authorities' is unprecedented. In a disturbing incident, CNN reporters were attacked by the secret (plain clothes Police) and their cameras stolen together with the footage. One CNN reporter recalls a disturbing and unsavory incident, "a female protestor is dragged off by her hair , taken to a side street and sexually assaulted by the police in full public view".

This account of the ladies treatment was widely aired and is living testimony to the reprehensible, indifferent, barbaric, criminal treatment of citizens by the authorities. Such violations warrant independent investigations and must never pass with out accountability.

...

"Mubarak's actions today will never be forgotten" said Mona from Alexandria, "we have lost all respect for him, the Egyptian people will always hate him and we will never stop demanding he leave us alone, we don't want him, we just want change we are not criminals for him to treat us like this, why? Why does he treat us like animals".

...
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/8029586-hosni-mubarak-and-family-have-fled-to-london

...

Now, as I write, the president has announced a curfew from an hour ago. And the army has started to deploy. If I were not writing this, I would still be out on the street. Every single person I know is out there; people who have never been on protests are wrapping scarves round their faces and learning that sniffing vinegar helps you get through teargas. Teargas! This is a gas that makes you feel the skin is peeling off your face. For several minutes I could not even open my eyes to see what was going on. And when I did, I saw that one of my nieces had stopped in the middle of the road, her eyes streaming. One of her shoes lost, she was holding out her arms: "I can't, I can't."

"You have to. Run." We all held arms and ran. This was on 6 October Bridge, just under the Rameses Hilton, and the air was thick with smoke. The thud of the guns was unceasing. We were trying to get to Tahrir Square, the main square of Cairo, the traditional destination of protests. But ahead of us was a wall of teargas. We ran down the slope of the bridge and straight into a line of central security soldiers. They were meant to block the way. We were three women, dishevelled, eyes streaming. We came right up to them and they made way. "Run," they urged us, "Run!"

"How can you do this?" I reproached them, eye to eye.

"What can we do? We want to take off this uniform and join you!"

...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/28/eyewitness-account-egypt-protests

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWslgJ2HAzg


There are MANY more examples.

[uppityperson]

37. I noticed that also, went looking. There are some but the majority in the picts are men.

I hope also that women won't have their existing rights taken away. I hope you are wrong, we shall see.

[grahamhgreen]

40. The neo-con PR is strong in that statement. Iraq and Afghanistan are both

Repressive Islamic republics.

Mubarak is hideous. He must go.

[pennylane100]

42. I have no idea what neo con PR is

My point was that the tv screens show mostly males, which most likely will mean that women will lose out regardless of which side wins.

[uppityperson]

46. It means by pointing out and questioning something you notice, you are assisting the right wingers

and somehow not supporting the protesters. It is along the line of a snide insult but of course we know we aren't allowed, per rules, to insult each other on DU.

[pennylane100]

58. so in your world, any questions you do not like or understand

only serve to assist right wingers. Yes, it is a good job insults are not allowed.

[uppityperson]

64. Dang, I really didn't think the sarcasm icon was needed there.

Simply interpreting how I took that comment. Best wishes to you (not sarcasm).

[tigereye]

48. not sure that a Taliban-type govt is in the offing

not sure they are that organized. Friend who knows more about Egypt told me that the Muslim Brotherhood is more of a populist-nationalist type organization, not an Al-Qaeda-type derivation.

[sabrina 1]

49. Muslim Brotherhood getting shouted down also by protestors

@sharifkouddous
Sharif Kouddous
Muslim Brotherhood chanting Allah Akbar. Crowd stopped them chanting louder: Muslim, Christian, we're all Egyptian #Egypt

This is a true people's movement. They do not want any more extremism from any side. They have been clear about that.

They want a democracy and they are saying constantly to anyone who asks, the people will choose their leaders in fair elections. They do not want anyone being installed by the west or taking over, such as extremist groups and are willing to fight on until they get a true democracy. I have seen several interviews now with the people on the streets and it's amazing how committed they all are to the same goals.

The Muslim Broghtehood will have the freedom to participate but not to take over.

[tigereye]

50. fair enough, I agree - I was only saying that since here

on western news, all Muslim groups are considered to be the same and of the extremist type.

[riderinthestorm]

51. I keep scanning the pics and there aren't very many women.

I've noticed it too. I see individual shots of women but in a crowd? Not great.

[Catherina]

52. There are PLENTY of women out there. Very few are in burkas

I have PLENTY more if this isn't convincing enough.

[blondeatlast]

53. Those photos make me proud, I wonder if I could summon that kind of courage

were my back to the wall.

The one of the woman in the burqa in front of the cadre of tanks is stunningly, simply, beautiful.

[Catherina]

54. Those women are amazing. All of them are.

When I think of young kids going after tanks, after heavily armed riot police with stones, their courage makes me cry. It also makes me feel shame at how acquiscent we are to let the free-trade war machine roll all over them.

[WillyT]

55. Here's One...

[Catherina]

56. To people who think that Muslimwomen are oppressed

MiranianDilemma

To people who think that Muslimwomen are oppressed or limited by their hijabs/burqas take a look at the women on the streets of Egypt
#jan25 half a minute ago via web


http://twitter.com/MiranianDilemma/statuses/31532589034512384

[EFerrari]

57. The Women of Egypt

More
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=268523&id=586357675&fbid=493689677675

[WillyT]

59. + 1,000,000,000... What You Showed !!!

:yourock:

:kick:

:hi:

[EFerrari]

60. Look at this:

LOL!

[blondeatlast]

61. The women I've seen in Egypt don't strike me as the type who will

be forced into burqas.

I love the sunglasses woman in the soldier's face; it makes me grin every time I see it.

[EFerrari]

62. And women are increasingly taking part in the politics of the street.

The pro-democracy protest is the biggest demonstration in Egypt in years. And women are increasingly taking part in the politics of the street. Mike Giglio reports. Plus, full coverage of the Egypt protests.



When 29-year-old Dalia Ziada, a popular Egyptian blogger, took to the streets of Cairo to protest this week, she saw an astonishing sight: In the crowds were university students and mothers with families in tow—a diverse mix of women marching and chanting, and running from the police.

During Friday’s mass demonstrations, women also participated, vocally and visibly, in what became a brutal standoff with authorities. (Police reportedly used tear-gas, rubber-bullets and water-cannon against the protesters.)

“Men and women are standing side-by-side in calling for their rights,” said Ziada in a telephone interview, before the government cut all cell phone connections.

Esraa Abdel Fatah, who also protested in Cairo this week, and who is known as “Facebook Girl” after organizing a nation-wide strike through her page in 2008, had a similar take: “We’re all Egyptians.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-01-28/egypt-revolution-the-purity-protests/?obref=obinsite

[SoCalDem]

63. There are some, but you have to remember that in Islamic societies

many women are virtually sequestered at home with their LARGE families. Women in very Islam-compliant families are not allowed "out" alone, and going to a protest is not something they would do.

I have seen women, but most of them seemed quite "westernized"...although there were a few who were "covered".

There is also some degree of danger involved, so if the men oif the family are out in the streets, it may not be a good idea for Mom to be out there too.

[Bluenorthwest]

65. Egypt is not Afghanistan, in many many way...

And as this thread shows, Egyptian women are taking part in the demonstrations. Stating that you do not see them is so odd.

[riderinthestorm]

66. I don't have teevee. So personally I'm relying on major news outlet photo shots

I see many, many large group shots of the crowds - 99% men. And then I'm seeing a single shot of a woman, or a few women in a line. I'm not seeing them in any large numbers in the crowd shots. I can't speak for the OP, so I thought I'd offer my perspective. Maybe there's more on teevee? If so, why are most of the major outlets only showing men?

I love the shot of the two clearly westernized women on the tank but that doesn't show me any hard information about the women who are out there en masse.

I can only go by what I see, and I'm scanning Al Jazeera, NYTimes, LATImes, British newspapers etc.

While I'm thrilled to see ANY women there, they aren't more than say... 10% maybe? 20% at most?

This doesn't bode well imho for women's places in the post-Mubarak era.

[rucky]

67. Here's a photo gallery of protests called Women of Egypt...

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=268523&id=586357675&fbid=493689677675

[riderinthestorm]

68. Yes, again, mostly single shots of women. Large panned shots show 99% men

I appreciate these posts on FB and don't dismiss women's participation but it appears to be a rather small minority from the group panned shots imho.

[rucky]

70. I wouldn't read too much into it.

The next regime isn't going to emerge totally westernized or enlightened. There's cultural aspects re: gender roles that are self-imposed. The next regime could either try to codify this or give the people their own options, but all signs are pointing to Democracy as the next step.

And even if this happened here, I'd probably join the protests and my wife would stay home with the kid, so...

[IcyPeas]

71. Facebook has "Women of Egypt"... page

I actually heard this on CNN last night. they were interviewing an Egyptian woman (sorry, didn't pay attention to her name) and she specifically mentioned this facebook page.

(was hoping someone else would post this, I was just about to.)

[EFerrari]

69. #Egyptian women announcing: they will lead the demo today

RT @raljowder: #Egyptian women announcing: they will lead the demo today as men were protecting them at night and need to rest #Egypt #Jan25

[jahlove17]

74. Popular Uprising

Hopefully a Taliban-like state will not develop, but I don't think one will. This is a popular uprising comprised of all sectors of Egyptian society, and I believe that the Islamic groups, such as the Muslim Brotherhood, have taken a backseat.