Inequality In America Is Worse Than In Egypt, Tunisia Or Yemen

[girl gone mad]

Inequality In America Is Worse Than In Egypt, Tunisia Or Yemen
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/01/inequality-is-worse-in-america-than-in.html">Washington's Blog

Egyptian, Tunisian and Yemeni protesters all say that inequality is one of the main reasons they're protesting.

However, the U.S. actually has much greater inequality than in any of those countries.

Specifically, the "Gini Coefficient" - the figure economists use to measure inequality - is higher in the U.S.



Gini Coefficients are like golf - the lower the score, the better (i.e. the more equality).

According to the CIA World Fact Book, the U.S. is ranked as the 42nd most unequal country in the world, with a Gini Coefficient of 45.

In contrast:

* Tunisia is ranked the 62nd most unequal country, with a Gini Coefficient of 40.

* Yemen is ranked 76th most unequal, with a Gini Coefficient of 37.7.

* And Egypt is ranked as the 90th most unequal country, with a Gini Coefficient of around 34.4.

And inequality in the U.S. has soared in the last couple of years, since the Gini Coefficient was last calculated, so it is undoubtedly currently much higher.

So why are Egyptians rioting, while the Americans are complacent?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/01/inequality-is-worse-in-america-than-in.html">more...

[dmallind]

1. Is that a serious question?

People who make 100 million and those who make 30k yearly are at a 3333:1 ratio of inequality.

People who make 100k and those who make 1k yearly are only at a 100:1 ratio.

The lower set of which group is more desperate and has less to lose in rebellion?

That of course is assuming economic equality is the sole driver of rebellion.

[girl gone mad]

18. Our wealth inequality was a major cause of the economic crisis and recession.

We have many desperate people in this country. I'm not sure what motivates the type of denial I see here, but until we can actually confront this reality we won't be able to build a more sustainable economy.

In a http://thebrowser.com/interviews/robert-shiller-on-human-traits-essential-capitalism">recent interview, economist Robert Schiller stated:

That’s been a trend in recent years in most nations of the world. Inequality has been getting worse, particularly in the US, but also in Europe and Asia and many other places. One thing that this has done is it has encouraged governments, who are aware of the resentment caused by the rising inequality, to try to take some kind of steps to make it more politically acceptable... historically, that has often taken the form of stimulating credit: instead of fixing the problems of the poor, lending money to them...

The US in particular has stimulated the housing market, it has subsidised lending to people, which drove up home prices in an unsustainable way. And there wasn’t that much concern about, or understanding of, the sustainability of this. That’s his first fault line..... I think inequality is a huge emerging problem, and that our society has to think about dealing with it in a constructive and real way – not through ‘Let them eat credit,’ not through wishful thinking. We have to understand how we get inequality and what we can do about it.

[bluestate10]

22. I don't disagree with you on the point that you are making.

It is important for wealthy people to share a good part of their wealth with the less fortunate in society. Any rich person that think they can live on an island among increasing poverty is indeed insane. The rich can hop in their jets and fly to safety as some in Egypt are doing, but as country after country have the poor become more and more marginalized, the safe havens to fly to will vanish.

[cali]

2. that's jusgt a ridiculous claim

and here's why: the depth of poverty in those countries is greater. There's far more unemployment. And that's just fiscal. How about inequalities re women, for instance?

[bluestate10]

23. You are right. I have spent a lot of time in Egypt. There is no way the USA is worse off. nt.

[Quantess]

3. The poor in Egypt are a lot worse off than the poor in the USA, I'm fairly sure.

Plus, they have suffered a lot of police brutality and injustices, worse than what we have here.

[bluestate10]

25. Exactly.

The OP has never been street level in Egypt searching for food or drink, or negotiating abundant, potentially lethal hazards. Health concerns that the USA poor take for granted smashes one in the face on streets in any large Egyptian city. Out lying villages are even more desperate.

I do agree with the OP that the rich in the USA had better wake up as a group and start sharing more of the societal burden. People like the Kochs are poor models for any rich that plan to retain their family wealth as the USA recedes from world domination and has to compete more with other countries.

[OKNancy]

4. Twisting statistics

"So why are Egyptians rioting, while the Americans are complacent?"

Although the facts of the above may be true, the question asked has no real meaning given that
1. People in the USA have such a high standard of living compared to the above mentioned countries, that although we certainly have problems, we tend to use the SYSTEM, however inefficient, to solve problems rather than rioting.
2. per capita income Egypt (2008)= $5400; Yemen =$2400 USA = $41,800.

Ask a poor person in the USA if he/she would rather live in the US or in Yemen.

[pampango]

5. I wonder if other factors make a difference: per capita income, repression, and optimism/pessimism

about individual economic prospects.

1) A combination of extreme income inequality and extreme poverty seem to be the most combustible mixture.

2) A place like Egypt with a 30-year repressive dictator is more volatile than places with some democratic outlets to channel discontent.

3) If people think their individual prospects are improving, they'll put up with more inequality.

Egypt seems to combine all three of those in the worst way.

You are right that our income inequality is among the worst in the world - only exceeded by some Third World countries like Brazil, Chile, South Africa, Zimbabwe, etc. We are so far behind Canada, South Korea, Japan, Europe, New Zealand and Australia that it's like we live on a different planet.

[JCMach1]

8. Per capita makes a big difference if can't even afford bread...

[NuclearDem]

6. Tunisia, Egypt, and Yemen are also about as authoritarian as it gets

Wheee! It's like the LSAT Arguments section again!

oh and yeah unrec for lrn2othercauses

[ipaint]

7. It measures distribution of wealth.

We suck at it.

And we seem to have a group of people who think the poor are comfortable here. 37% of people make under 20,000 a year and we are a very expensive country to live in poor.

No health care, extremely expensive secondary education and inadequate low income housing. For the richest country in the world we do a piss poor job of distributing wealth and it's getting worse.


The gulf between rich and poor is astronomical and that cannot be defended by comparing the level of suffering at the bottom.

[dmallind]

9. Which is not what was asked or offered

The question was not "defend US income inequality" but "why has that not led to rioting since it's worse than other countries where widespread rioting exists?" Consistent and accurate answers to the question asked ensued. It's not ratio that causes civil unrest, it's the suffering at the bottom that you dismiss, inaccurately, as defending an argument that was never offered to a question never asked.

[girl gone mad]

12. No, that was not the question.

He asked why this inequality has led to revolts in other countries while Americans appear complacent.

What makes anyone assume that our fight against inequality should look anything like what we are seeing elsewhere around the globe?

[NuclearDem]

15. Who said the revolts were JUST about inequality though?

Could it be the Tunisians, Egyptians, and Yemeni are tired of living under oppressive governments too?

[ipaint]

30. I didn't dismiss the suffering.

I said the measurement reflects the lack of effective distribution of wealth to all citizens regardless of how low the bottom is.

The question is why do americans allow such an unequal distribution of wealth and why do they sit idly by and watch it get worse.

And the weasel words used to justify the inequality- The poor aren't eating dirt here yet so it's not so bad, are frankly stupid and shortsighted.

[quaker bill]

10. Because here the poor get to eat regularly

they also get some modest level of support. People on the right like to think all this "liberal" stuff, like food stamps, unemployment, WIC, Welfare, and SSI disability benefits, were created for soft, warm and fuzzy purposes. In part, they were.

However, alot of this stuff, the benefits above, the Labor department, the wage and hour enforcement division, OSHA, and such were created as a government based substitute for mass unionization in the face of massive unrest and violent union driven protests. A big point was to create economic and social stability by providing some floor of rights and benefits for workers, the elderly, and the poor. It has largely worked.

Republicans should pay attention to this before they start dismantling the system, but they won't. Political stability is good for business, general strikes, protests, and revolts are really bad for business. There is a floor of rights and social benefits that one should not breach.

[bluestate10]

27. Well said. nt.

[BlueJazz]

11. Those who "Diss" the OP seem to forget that if the current trend continues,...

..the poor and perhaps, even the middle class, in the USA, will be in the same economic boat as the people in Egypt.
....and frankly, I wonder if the people here have enough Guts to do what the Egyptians do...

[cali]

13. I'm dissing the OP for it's dishonesty

I'm not disagreeing with your point.

[BlueJazz]

16. ...and I see your point. It's early and I need some coffee.

:)

[NuclearDem]

14. Actually, I was dissing the OP for a massive logical fallacy

i.e. the idea that economic inequality is the ONLY factor in the Egyptian, Yemeni, and Tunisian revolts.

And no, I don't think we have the guts, mostly because we don't set tanks on fire or particularly like to create situations where innocent people can be killed.

[BlueJazz]

17. Pass the cream and sugar.

[girl gone mad]

21. 1. The OP never says that inequality is the ONLY factor.

2. Why do you assume that the only way to combat economic inequality involves setting tanks on fire?

Your reaction to this article is rather knee-jerk, in my view.

[NuclearDem]

24. See, here's what someone who reads the OP and analyzes it thinks:

1. Premise: Egypt, Tunisia, and Yemen are revolting.
2. Supporting data: Inequality is really bad in those countries.
3. Supporting data also indicates US inequality is worse than those three.
4. Conclusion: US should be revolting, or at least taking stronger action, as Egypt, Tunisia, and Yemen are because of inequality.

Americans AREN'T particularly complacent about inequality...but because we don't take to the streets or riot, we appear so when compared to how other people in other countries act. We can afford to do that because our government doesn't have us clamped down under Emergency Law and we are (by comparison) a fairly healthy republic. We have more peaceful avenues open to us. The media loves a good riot...they don't love an e-petition.

[pampango]

26. The OP does ask the question "So why are Egyptians rioting, while the Americans are complacent?"

Many posts here seek to answer that question by focusing on factors other than the income inequality (which the OP focuses on). I think we all acknowledge that income inequality in the US is a disgrace and makes us very much different from every other developed country in the world.

[bluestate10]

28. You are right.

If the gap between rich and poor continue to increase and the middle class vanish, there will be violence and the rich will likely have their possessions taken away. That is why sane rich are working their asses off to produce more social equity, while assholes like the Kochs just don't get it. My estimate is that the point at which violence strikes the USA will be far, far lower than that for countries like Yemen and Egypt, because americans are better off, their tolerance to degradation will be very low.

[KharmaTrain]

19. No One Size Fits All...

Different countries, cultures and conditions. A major problem I see in our media and its coverage of world events is how simplistic they present it. It's almost always American Myopic..."what does this mean to the US" with little regard to history or other factors that don't fit into their view of "American exceptionalism". Thus we get people trying to project American intentions, goals and values on these situations that detract from the real causes.

The situation in Eygpt is unique to that country. Yes, the US does exert influence (billions worth) and we have a vested interest in stability in that country; however these riots are not the first in this country (most have been brutally supressed) and to inject American interests is the big mistake many made around Iran and other revolutions that come back to bite us in the ass later.

The truth is there's little the US can do that can be positive in this situation. It's cast its chips with Mubarak and have too much vested in him remaining firmly in the control (or the military). While the US can encourage "democracy" they can't make it happen...only those on the street can and will.

[bluestate10]

20. That is patently false.

I have spent time in Egypt. Maybe you should go to Egypt and walk a typical street in any big city there. Egypt has massive, grinding poverty. You obviously have never heard of or chose to ignore places like the city of the dead in Cairo, or the impossibly impoverished villages that are all over the country. But if you are the type that just stay in the western style hotels, eat safe food and drink and brush your teeth with safe bottled water, you have no concept of what real life there is like.

[blindpig]

29. It should be noted that our inequality is partially built upon ....

the inequality which we impose upon other nations. When big capital, with the aid of the US government, imposes crushing debt, drives farmers off their fields to produce internationally traded commodities and the people into the sweat shops and takes their natural resources for a pittance the vast majority of the wealth isn't realized in those countries but goes straight to the coffers of the first world elite. Were it not for that they would be squeezing us as hard as those people are being squeezed. The problems of working people transcend national borders.

[HughBeaumont]

31. +1.

Food Inc. was an eye-opener. We'd all be better off if more businesses were localized and fit people's need, not their greed.

[cali]

32. oh fuck. hell has frozen over. the devil is merrily skating and

I agree with you.

[blindpig]

35. lol

really...

But it ain't so bad, is it?

[Agony]

33. Because Americans are not so much complacent as they are ignorant.

Maybe ignorant is harsh... because life is "good enough" at what point does life become NOT good enough?

[cali]

34. For most people, I suspect, life becomes not good enough when

they have no food, no prospects. And there needs to be a critical mass of people suffering in this way.

[dkf]

36. Oh please are we really going to compare our circumstances to those places?

We are spoiled brats compared to most people in this world. But we don't appreciate what we have.

We don't deserve it.

[Octafish]

37. Thank you for posting that.

Washington's Blog is an excellent resource.

Perhaps income inequality isn't perceived as a problem in the United States because our TV has done such a good job of convincing people otherwise. "Work hard and save up and you too can live the American Dream™."

The reality today, from what I've seen, it's best to be born rich and do all you can to make sure you stay that way. That means not sharing.

[Starry Messenger]

38. recommend.

[Scruffy1]

39. A better comparison can be found

To compare non-developed countries is like comparing apples to oranges, but if we look at the ratio of the top 20% to the bottom 20% the good ole USA is second after Singapore in income inequality. Japan is the least unequal developed nation with the Scandinavian countries close behind. (The Spirit Level, Wilkinson &Picket,Bloomsbury Press 2009.) Egypt does better in a number of areas than many countries with similar average income.

[indepat]

40. Because large numbers of American swallow the RW hatred, divisiveness,

inequality, and outrageous lies and distortions, hook, line, and sinker to the point they are utterly blinded and absent critical-thinking skills. ;)