Should Legal, Non-Citizen Immigrants Receive Food Stamps?

[The Straight Story]

Should Legal, Non-Citizen Immigrants Receive Food Stamps?

Washington State’s decision to end funding for food stamps for legal immigrants has prompted a class action lawsuit claiming the move was unconstitutional.

Effective February 1, the state government will cease all funding for its Food Assistance Program for Legal Immigrants, saving the budget about $7 million.

But “saving money is not adequate justification to discriminate against plaintiff and class members,” said lead plaintiff Monica Navarro Pimentel, as part of the litigation that argues the state has violated the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment since U.S. citizens are allowed food stamps in Washington.

The budget cut affects more than 10,000 legal immigrants who were receiving assistance under the terminated program.

Food Assistance Program for Legal Immigrants was established in 1997 in response to the federal government’s decision to end food-stamp eligibility for most legal immigrants.

http://www.allgov.com/Where_is_the_Money_Going/ViewNews/Should_Legal_Non_Citizen_Immigrants_Receive_Food_Stamps_110131

[ejpoeta]

1. if they are here legally, then they should be able to get help if needed.

[FreakinDJ]

9. Currently they have to pay it back to Renew Immigrant Status

They can receive Federal Aid - but Permanent Resident Status or Citizenship request can be denied until the money is refunded

It is to prevent the Immigration process from being turned into a scam.

Of course the Fundies / Ronald Reagan, subverted all this by granting "Political Asylum" for Religious groups behind the Iron Curtain when it still existed. A lot of Christian Ministries in the U.S. thought this would be a great way to populate their local townships with "Like-Minded Christian Values Voters". Chartered plain loads of new political asylum seekers landed in the U.S. with Federal Aid paperwork already filed out on the plane

[social_critic]

33. I believe you refer to the Jewish refugees leaving the Soviet Union?

In their case, I think it was sensible to help them out. They were being abused and discriminated against in the Soviet Union. And as it turned out, most of them were a lot smarter than the average person, which in the end helped bring the Soviet Union down.

[FreakinDJ]

103. Nope - 1980s - Christians

[wellstone dem]

2. They pay taxes

of course undocumented immigrants also pay taxes, but getting them a return on the taxes they pay is an unwinnable argument. We won't even give them driver's licenses (even though allowing licenses would at least make sure of a safety test before getting on the road.)

[LiberalFighter]

3. +++++

[blondeatlast]

20. +1. nt

[ejpoeta]

25. you are SOOO right. but since there seem to be so many anti immigrant

of any kind.... nevermind that i am 2nd generation american (i guess since my grandpa came from germany). we are all from somewhere else. but we don't want to mention that. that's different i guess.

[snot]

37. +1

[CBGLuthier]

4. Should People be allowed to starve in America?

Starve or go home?

Personally, I don't want to live in a nation that would turn its back on starving people. No thanks.

[tavalon]

38. That's the tag line

No one should starve in America. At least make that the bottom line. I think the bottom line should be much higher, but at least that.

[fishwax]

117. .

:thumbsup:

[lunatica]

5. No. Let them starve

As long as we get ours, fuck them. Shit! We don't even care about poor American children starving.

:sarcasm:

[madokie]

6. No one should have to go hungry

legal status be damned in this.

[Kali]

45. this

no one should have to go hungry

[Iggo]

7. Hungry people should receive food stamps.

What the fuck is wrong with this country?

[closeupready]

16. +100

nt

[ejpoeta]

26. sel-fish. me me me. i got mine fuck you. need i go on?

[ThomCat]

36. Yes, it should be that fucking simple!

:applause:

[tavalon]

39. What the fuck is wrong with this country?

How long you got?

[Iggo]

49. I'll be fifty on my next b-day.

So not as much time as we'd need, I'm guessing.

[Broken_Hero]

69. ....

:thumbsup:

[AsahinaKimi]

120. +10000

Really, I mean wtf kinda person would let someone starve on the streets?? oh wait.. A Republican.

[Vickers]

8. My wife is a non-citizen immigrant...she's about ready to get the hell out of here.

She pays income tax, pays in to Social Security, pays property taxes, etc. etc. and she has never felt more unwelcome in her life.

[Mariana]

27. My husband, and my sister's husband, are immigrants, too.

They got US citizenship a few years ago, but it is as you say - they have been made to feel uncomforable. They are both white and native English speakers, although they have obvious foreign accents. If THEY are feeling unwelcome, I can't even imagine what it's like for people with darker skin and different accents and/or languages.

[bobbolink]

31. Being homeless is another good way to feel VERY unwelcome.

I don't blame her at all for wanting to leave... I. Do. Too!!

[MedicalAdmin]

52. If my wife and I leave do you want a sponsor?

My wife is a citizen. I'm not, but I've lived here all my adult live. We are both white, highly educated and community leaders. And I feel like a leper.

In our opinion it is time to get out before it is too late. And among the other highly educated friend who contribute to communities like we do the opinion is shared . It's time to get out of dodge.

So after we move if you need a sponsor to move to a more civilized country ...

[bobbolink]

54. That is the nicest thing anyone has said to me in a LONG time! How thoughtful!

Yes, I really would like to get out.... fight from the outside, you know?

I have said for a long time that so many of these countries have had their citizens accepted in the United States when they (the countries) were going through hard times, and now it is time for them to return the favor.

Recognize just how badly poor and homeless people are being treated in this country, accept them into their countries, and then show us how to form a much better nation, so that when this country finally falls, we can come back with the knowledge and skills of how to get this country to act like the rest of the civilized world!

:hi:

[MedicalAdmin]

66. It's an easy offer to make.

Your posts reveal a community spirit, an indominatible will, and a good heart. It would be an honor. Unfortunately it might not happen for several years unless we can speed up the time schedule (try to rush a diplomat and you get stonewalling) and then we would have to wait a year or 2 to sponsor). None of which helps you now. Also I admire your postings. They are at the top of the heap in terms of quality on DU IMHO.

If you were closer I would offer you a bed and roof in our house - it's humble but it's heated.

[bobbolink]

72. Your kind words mean so much... Thank you!

[eShirl]

10. does that apply to people here in the Refugee Resettlement Program?

[pampango]

11. And the RW smiles. Focus on illegal immigrants long enough and all immigrants end up targeted. n/t

[blondeatlast]

21. I kind of think that's the idea. nt

[old mark]

12. K&R- Have no words strong enough to condemn this....nt

[notadmblnd]

13. if they have children that are legal US citizens, they should.

[Vickers]

14. So my wife, who paid all of the taxes that you do for the 4 years before we had a kid

should not have been eligible for aid during that time?

Wow.

*checks URL*

Wow.

[Gaedel]

29. I brought my wife's sister and her family here in 2008

We did it 100% legally (took thirteen years from the initial paperwork).

As a part of that process, my wife and I had to sign a sponsorship agreement that if they applied for any welfare benefits, we had to reimburse the gummint for what they received until they had worked and paid into SS for five years (or was it seven?).

I believe that the only benefits they can apply for are medicaid and the free school breakfast and lunch.

[Bluenorthwest]

32. Just for the sake of truth and all...how nice for you!

GLBT people are not allowed to 'bring' even our spouses, much less their siblings. 13 years sounds like a very short time compared to 'no way, no how, one man, one woman, you should be happy this is not Uganda yet'.
Just saying. The hetero world thwarted my happiness and life, long ago with these deeply bigoted rules. If those rules did not serve you well, I suggest that as a person with full human standing, you should do something about it.
How nice. Wife, sister and her family. Happy for you all. Apathy for us all?

[Gaedel]

104. You drop-kicked the basketball right into left field

Not what we were talking about at all.



I could not bring my spouse's sibling to the US, only she could do that. If she had died during the time we waited the whole immigration thing would have come to a halt.

You could bring your alien sibling to the US just as my wife could.

The only thing that I could do in the process was to toss my income into the pot on the "Affidavit of Support".

[notadmblnd]

111. if she was in the country legally, she was

[Vickers]

121. Ah, for a moment it sounded like you were agreeing with the dumbfucks

saying she SHOULDN'T have been eligible (which is what the OP is about).

They are talking about taking things away from LEGAL immigrants.

[kiva]

34. Do you really think that having children should determine

someone's worth as a human being?

[notadmblnd]

110. no, but the children being citizens obligates us to feed them

[Warren Stupidity]

15. I think they should be made to wear armbands so we can readily identify them.

Plus they generally have insect and rodent infestations so they should be kept to their own separate areas.

[tavalon]

40. Perhaps a yellow star of David?

Wait, did I just Godwin this conversation? Oh, well, it was a really, really fucked up conversation. Whether people should starve or not based on citizenship. Fucked up.

[MedicalAdmin]

53. I once read on stormfront that allmomogrants should be branded on their foreheads

So they couldn't hide.

It's gonna get a LOT worse before ... well, I don't think it will ever get better any more.

[TBF]

17. The fact that we have to ask if people should be fed is a good indicator

of what is wrong in this country (and world).

[blondeatlast]

22. +1,111,111! nt

[PDJane]

24. Precisely.

[tavalon]

41. Thank you, good human

[underseasurveyor]

62. You are the winner

of EVERYTHING :loveya:
Spot on.

[badtoworse]

64. Short term assistance is OK. No way the committment should be open-ended.

[Forkboy]

75. I agree. it would suck if people got to eat for too long.

[blondeatlast]

83. +1.Really--what was the RRR saying about "death panels?" We have some on the left, too, apparently.

Hey, howya doin?

[Forkboy]

92. hanging in there.

:)

[treestar]

18. If they are legal, I don't see the problem.

It's one thing to complain about illegal immigrants, but quite another to complain about legal ones.

Which goes to show that anti-immigrant people don't care about legality as much as they profess. When it comes down to it, they are against legal immigrants too.

[tavalon]

43. People are people

I think that's a Christian principle. I am as the least among you, comes to mind.

[H2O Man]

19. Absolutely not.

We are a christian nation. Jesus said not to share food with "others."

[bobbolink]

56. And he provided the loaves and fishes, served only to his disciples, to PROVE it.

Plus, he always demanded proof of insurance before he did any healing.

[blondeatlast]

84. Don't forget birth certificates as well. nt

[underseasurveyor]

101. + a gozillion

LOL

[davekriss]

23. yes (nt)

[TheKentuckian]

28. Of course...legal or not we shouldn't be letting poor people starve while food rots

[sinkingfeeling]

30. Of course they should.

[lumberjack_jeff]

35. They're also cutting basic health and help for the disabled.

I would not support cutting help for the disabled deeper so that non citizen residents can have food stamps.

The residents can move to a more generous state - or back to their own.

[tavalon]

44. Time to eat the rich

I hear they taste like chicken.

The problem is the rich. The rich. The rich. The rich.

Have I made my point?

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. Absolutely right.

In Washington State, the bottom 20% of taxpayers pay 17% of their wages in state tax. The top 1% pay 3.5%.

But Washingtonians like it that way. We voted down an income tax on the wealthiest citizens, promoted by some of the wealthiest citizens. The resulting budget crisis is forcing major cuts everywhere in the state except roads.

[tavalon]

114. No, you and I didn't

Unfortunately, a majority of Washingtonians did. Living as close to Seattle as I do, I tend to forget that we have a large contingent of easily led teaparty types in our state.

Notice how I just assumed that you voted for the income tax? I know I did. I know Bill Gates' dad did.

[Mimosa]

119. Some rich people claim they vote progressive on tax issues

But who believes they put their money where their mouths are? I don't.

[tavalon]

122. I believe Bill Gates' dad

He is a bleeding heart liberal, through and through. I'm unsure how much got through to his son.

[barbiegeek]

48. Thank You!!

[MedicalAdmin]

55. 2 wrong = 1 right, yes?

What a good German you are.

[lumberjack_jeff]

57. No. It's impossible to buy three $1 items with $1.

You don't live in Washington, do you?

[badtoworse]

63. Voters in Washington have limited the amount of money the state has to spend

The state now has to prioritize and will likely take of its own citizens first. I don't have a problem with that.

[MedicalAdmin]

67. Will you also have no problem if SS is cut?

Here's the thing. Those non citizens get to pay all the taxes, etc that citizens do. They have paid into the system (most of em that are not refugees) for years. In my case for over 20 years. And now I can't make use of that system if I or my family need it to keep from starving (FYI - I'm not in danger of that) despite supporting it.

The reason that I mention SS is that it may be cut for the same reasons being put forward to support WA states cutting off benefits for legal residents. Will you also blithely support cutting SS when it is your turn to be targeted? After all, the politicians are only following the will of the citizens and doing what they were asked to. Ah yes - the tyranny of the majority. How comforting.

"We either stand up for what we believe in, or we must eventually admit that we stand for nothing." - paraphrase of Sen. Paul Wellstone (D - RIP)

[badtoworse]

74. We don't know the details of any SS cuts, so that is speculative

Will I support it? Maybe, but I would have to know the details, i.e. who's affected and how, to take a position. SS is different in the sense that it is not "assistance". People receive SS benefits on the basis of what they have paid in over their working careers. A resident alien who's paid in shouldn't be treated differently.

I too have worked overseas and paid taxes to the country in which I worked. I never needed or expected to have access to social services there and I accepted that as part of the deal. I don't think it is reasonable to expect any country to provide for non-citizens on an equal footing with citizens. If you really want that, then you should beome a citizen of the country in question.

[MedicalAdmin]

81. I agree sorta.

But other countries don't make decisions to sit back and watch others, especially children starve. I have never asked for benefits but I would like to think that the "best damn country in the world" wouldn't be making these decisions. Your argument, if I understand it is that you want to know the administrative details before you decide if it is the right thing to do to make sure that someone who is poor or who has poor parents doesn't starve. I can tell you that in Canada you would get food. Canadians are civilized.

And sure, SS is a speculative argument - that's the point of it - just where are you willing to draw the line and just how cheaply are you willing to sell your integrity and humanity?

[badtoworse]

82. I never said anyone should starve - nobody would support that

That said, if you aren't a citizen and can't support yourself here, then you should get short term assistance and be returned to the country from which you came. At that point, you should look to your own country to provide assistance. That is what I would expect if I was working overseas.

[MedicalAdmin]

108. I'm a permanent resident. I have no legal standing.

When I became a permanent resident I was eligible for those benefits and I paid into the state and federal taxes that fund those programs. I don't suppose you think I should get a refund, do you? I don't, but it is a clear signal to anyone who is bright and who contributes - don't ever come to the USA and if you do get a scholarship ( as I did) don't stay and repay it with community services and taxes. They'll just bend you over a barrel.

And I get to pay taxes to support billionaires while others go without. Divide and conquer has found a convert in you. Whether you get paid or not you are now working for the Koch bros.

[MedicalAdmin]

68. I used to live and work in Vancouver, but no...

I am no longer a resident. And I was never a citizen.

Should I put on an armband now or can I wait until they relocate my family or ask us to leave with just the shirts on our backs?

[hunter]

42. They should be sold to Wal-Mart as slaves.

Then feeding them becomes Wal-Mart's problem.

If we could only let the Free Market do it's own thing, USA wouldn't have all these problems.

God Bless America and the Free Market

:patriot:

[Warren Stupidity]

50. Or perhaps exported to Kosovo for organ banks?

[barbiegeek]

46. NO-disabled citizens are being cut from disability

and going with out food or shelter. NO!

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. Scanning through this thread...

... I don't see anyone saying "Of course they should!" who actually lives in Washington.

Because the voters cut taxes via our screwed up initiative process, the governor is cutting necessary services throughout the system.

[badtoworse]

58. Only if the state can meet its financial obligations and take care of its citizen indigent

Unfortunately, some states are on the verge of bankruptcy and may not be able to afford to do this without cutting some even more vital service. We have reached a point where many states will have to prioritize on what services they can afford to provide. Would you provide food stamps to non-citizens if you had to cut Medicaid funding to do it? How about education funding?

Sounds heartless, but non-citizens would not be a high priority on my list - we have way too many citizens whose needs are pressing.

[hunter]

59. So what makes you special?

None of us chose the place of our birth.

If we've invited someone to live, work and spend their money here in the USA does that make them disposable people whenever times get tough?

Thanks for the blood sweat and tears now get the hell out or die!

I don't want to live in a nation that's so fucked up.

[badtoworse]

60. Try showing up in any other country with no job and no means to support yourself...

...and see what kind of a handout you get or how long you're allowed to stay. I wouldn't let anyone starve, but I would not let them stay here either. I wouldn't expect any other country to treat me differently if the tables were turned. IMO, a country's first obligation is to its own citizens. We don't have the resources to adequately take care of our own poor and I would not cut essential services like healthcare and education for our own citizens to provide anything but very short term assistance for non-citizens.

"Invited"?? I've never heard of the US "inviting" people to immigrate. If they're here legally, they requested the privilege of coming here.

[hunter]

65. They come here to work or to join their families.

Most of them have been here a long time.

Sure, there ought to be rules, but if you've been here for a few years working and paying taxes, or you are the dependent of someone who has, then we as a nation do have some obligation to you.

This nation has a vile history, continuing to this day, of treating immigrants as a disposable workforce, easily abused, and depressing the wages and working conditions of everyone, citizen or not. Raising minimum wages and enforcing labor laws would go a long way in solving the immigration problem. If immigrants can find good jobs and they are contributing to the economy there is no reason to exclude them. Citizens who have crappy low paying jobs have everything in common with immigrants who have similar jobs, and very little in common with the wealthy and politically powerful who have created these miserable conditions.

Some things the U.S.A. does to people are entirely obscene, such as denying legal immigrant status to kids who grew up here, attended school here, and don't have any real home but the U.S.A.

Just because other nations suck worse than we do doesn't make what we do right.

[badtoworse]

70. In the end, it comes down to limited resources

I believe we will see some states going bankrupt in the next few years and having to makes drastic cuts to social services. I expect to see states having to abrogate union contracts and cut existing pensions. Even the more financially stable states are going to have to prioritize and decide what they can and cannot afford to fund or they too will go bankrupt. In such a fiscal environment, some painful choices will have to be made and there are going to be needs that go unmet. It sucks, but I don't see any realistic way around it.

[hunter]

80. I'm not going to throw my neighbors off the lifeboat.

The bosses of this economy are starving everyone beneath them so they can enjoy further abusing us and making us fight for scraps while they accumulate greater resources for themselves.

There is a way out of this mess: Raise the minimum wage, nationalize health care, tax the wealthy in a steeply progressive manner, and put unemployed people to work repairing and improving the national infrastructure.

There is a lot broken in the USA that needs to be fixed. We need to reduce our oil imports and foreign military entanglements. That means we need to build a transportation system that is much less dependent on oil. We need to reduce our consumption of coal and natural gas. That means we improve the energy efficiency of our housing and places of work.

We have the resources, we have the workers, all we need to do is break the political machine that is sucking wealth away from the poor and the middle classes into the control of the very, very wealthy.

[badtoworse]

85. All that sounds great, but do you think it's going to happen anytime soon?

Until it does, states have to deal with fiscal reality and in many cases, they're basically broke.

[blondeatlast]

87. I won't either. How many of us posting here now wouldn't be here if our ancestors had

had the same attitudes? I know I wouldn't.

[underseasurveyor]

102. Excellent post!

[blondeatlast]

86. Y'know, that's why I still sorta love the USA.

"Try showing up in any other country with no job and no means to support yourself..."

I'm of Irish descent; damn, they hated my great-grandparents just as much as my neighors hate the Garcias--who make me tamales just because I happen to be nice to them.

[badtoworse]

88. Hate has nothing to do with it.

The issue as I see it is whose long term safety net you belong in. If you're here on a work visa and you can no longer support yourself, we should not allow you to starve. At the same time, I don't think you should expect an open ended commitment from the US to take care of you. The right response is short term assistance from the US and then you should return home to your own country and look to its safety net. That is fair to everyone.

[blondeatlast]

93. that's what they said about the Irish. I find it unconscionable to let people starve, period. nt

[badtoworse]

95. Your not reading what I've been posting - Bye

[blondeatlast]

106. Toodles. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

99. There's a difference between "being Irish" and "being of Irish descent".

The Garcia's children (assuming they were born here) are as entitled to the benefits of citizenship as I am. They are Americans of Mexican descent.

But (assuming your example of "the Garcia's" has some relevance to the topic) mom and dad are guests.

[eilen]

109. I thought Obama said he wanted talented educated

people who have come to school here for university to stay here in his SOTU? Didn't we look for those people during the brain drain? Hey, my Mom came here from Germany when she was 7 years old; her parents never applied for her citizenship and in the 1980's she found out she had no standing here or there. Do you think if she and I spend a year learning the language, Germany would take us back?

[lumberjack_jeff]

97. Citizenship.

Citizens have rights from and responsibilities to their country that guests do not.

If the US goes to shit, I can't simply return home.

[Forkboy]

77. You're right, it does sound heartless.

[badtoworse]

78. So how would you cut up a finite pie?

[Forkboy]

90. We could help by not throwing half the pie in the trash fighting wars we can't win, for starters.

The vague concepts of the War of Terror and the War on Drugs are sucking us dry. These wars cannot be won in any traditional sense of the word.

There, I've just saved enough money to feed the people who are, you know, hungry and shit.

I'm so tired of the false dichotomy people like yourself throw up (making me do the same) when it comes to excuses for not feeding a fellow human being (read those last three words again). It's truly a sickening sight to see, and wonder how you'd feel if was you or your family who were the hungry ones. Somehow I suspect your argument would disappear toot sweet.

[badtoworse]

94. The State of Washington isn't fighting a War on Terror or Drugs...

...and it can't just print money. The Feds do those things and BTW, they stopped providing food stamps for non-citizens in 1997.

[Forkboy]

98. Washington State doesn't spend any money at all on going after drugs users or dealers?

Sure about that? Because they have an awful lot of laws on the book in that state, and an awful lot of people in jail because of them. Somehow, I don't think these people strolled on over to the jails on their own and asked for vacancies, do you? So who do you think put them there, and how many dollars were spent in the process, and how many more on keeping them there? That money isn't all coming from the federal government.

As for the War on Terror, less money at the Federal level means less money at the State level. You don't think Seattle and other areas aren't paying out of their own wallets for added security where needed? And where do you think the Fed is getting the money to fight it from in the first place? You are being taxed, correct?

The Feds do those things and BTW, they stopped providing food stamps for non-citizens in 1997.

I know. The hungry have been getting fucked for decades, partly because of arguments by people who say they care but throw up roadblocks at every chance they get...as long as they have food, of course. This isn't news.

[badtoworse]

100. If they broke state law, they belong in jail

Even if the state legalized drugs and saved money on incarcerating violators, it's first priority is to care for its own citizens, If you're here on a work or student visa, it's your responsibility to take care of yourself. Sorry, but that was the deal. Charity begins at home and our own citizens have way too many needs that are not being met for us to support guests. You apparently make no distinction between a country's obligation to care of it's citizens and a county's discretion to take of guests. I do.

[blondeatlast]

96. +1. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

61. The ONLY difference in treatment a resident non-citizen should get

is some limitations in the ability to vote and be voted.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Green Card holders

pay taxes, and supposedly shoudl receive all services. So yes, it should be a lawsuit.

Next, we will see, this move against naturalized citizens

[JVS]

118. I have a question that I think you'd know the answer for US rules better than I.

What are the various types of visas and ways of being in the US?

The reason I ask is that the OP's question is too open ended. Student visas in Europe require that you support yourself on the visit (although sometimes they'll allow work). Every time I've been in the UK they stamp "No public assistence" on the entry. Similarly H1b visas and the visa I had to work in the EU are contingent upon employment in a particular position (i,e, I needed to show my work contract). I would see nothing wrong with telling people who came to work on a particular project or came here for a course of study that they are ineligible for the aid and should return home. Other cases, like someone who has immigrated to be reunited with their family would be different, since the purpose (and presumably preconditions) of their visa is still being fulfilled while they receive aid.

[JVS]

73. I've been on legal visas in other countries that said "Not eligible for public aid"

Work visas and student visas are given on the condition that you support yourself. It was understood that if I quit my job or school, I was no longer welcome in the country.

[badtoworse]

76. I've seen that as well; I believe it's more the rule than the exception.

[former9thward]

79. The federal government ended this program in 1997.

Since their decision would have affected all 50 states, not just Washington, why wasn't a lawsuit filed then? Why after 14 years have gone by?

[msanthrope]

105. Because Washington state chose to fund it. Now it can't afford to. n/t

[former9thward]

107. I get that but the lawsuit was filed saying it violates the federal Constitution.

If that is true why wouldn't a lawsuit have been filed 14 years ago when the federal government ended it? And why none from the other states that did not start a program?

[ellie]

89. Yes, because allowing

people starve to death is unconscionable.

[white_wolf]

91. This whole system is stupid as hell.

It used to be that people wanted to come to America, but now even some citizens who were born here want to leave and you can't really blame them. Things have gotten very bad over the past few decades. Even I have said sometimes (half)jokingly "I wonder if Canada or one of the nations of Western Europe will take me?" Things are bad here and I'm afraid they may get much worse before they get better, hell if the RW had its way things will get much much worse and possibly never better.

[Hello_Kitty]

112. Food stamps should be based on income.

That said, if a large number of immigrants (documented or not) qualify for them we need to look into why that is. Employers should not be using immigration to pay low wages and have U.S. taxpayers subsidize the basic needs of their workers.

[johnaries]

113. I'm not a Christian, but didn't Jesus say something about feeding

the poor? As I remember, he didn't make any exceptions like "but not illegal immigrants".

But i'll admit I could be wrong. Can anyone point out a verse that says that?

[saras]

115. Of course they should - and I'm from Washington

But I'd rather say...

if we're going to brand all the immigrants, which Native American tribe gets the contract? And do we start with immigrants who can trace their families back to the Mayflower, or are we going to do it alphabetically?

As a state, we're being as stupid with our money as the Feds are, and there's plenty of "off the table" ways of dealing with it instead of ripping up our foundations.

[slay]

116. Yes

anyone who needs food stamps should be allowed to get them i don't care if you're legal or from mars. i drawn the line at food. food is a human right in my eyes.