Generation 'Y' men losing traditional male skills of carpentry masonry and iron smithing

[Warren Stupidity]

and in other news, both sexes now fart in public.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. I have a forge and an anvil

and use them regularly.

[Indydem]

2. I have observed this in my friends.

I can do carpentry, electrical, and most plumbing thanks to the lessons my father taught me. A girlfriend's father taught me basic mechanic skills and I've expanded those since.

My friends can't do any of these things, and they have no desire to learn. They would just rather hire it done and sit back and watch tv.

[Teaser]

3. in other news, wanking skills still intact

.

[WingDinger]

4. And our brains are smaller than early toolmaker man.

[Javaman]

5. My late 20 something neighbor hadn't a clue as to how to change the tire on his car.

I taught him instead of just changing it for him.

He told me, "I'm intimidated by tools".

oh for fuck sakes.

[lutefisk]

52. "I'm intimidated by tools" - that's a great line...n/t

:hi:

[Leftist Agitator]

67. What tools?

A fucking tire iron or 4-way and a jack?

[WestSeattle2]

76. I imagine a "tool" is anything that's not a computer keyboard n/t

[social_critic]

6. I'm more worried about other things

I would be more concerned if you told me we are running out of quality elevator repairmen. Or street light repairmen. Or TV cable repair guys.

Think about it.

[Celebration]

7. I know this for sure

We definitely ARE running out of "quality" TV cable repair guys.

[surrealAmerican]

60. Did such a creature ever exist?

In all the years I've had cable, I've never met one.

[social_critic]

72. I met one once.

I met a good cable repair guy once. It was such an extraordinary event, I called my neighbors, and we trapped him. We built a house for him, married him to Bob's daughter, and we pay him well. But to make sure nobody takes him away, we make him dress like a postman. We even bought him one of those little white jeeps with the steering wheel on the wrong side.

[BeFree]

73. ""I'm more worried about other things""

So... this is what we've come down too as a society?

That the most important and most respected are those who supply superficial creature comforts?
And those laborers who build the very foundation of our lives are ignored, used up and neglected?

Heh, just being a real social critic here.

[Cleita]

8. Oh, teach them to cook, sew and iron. n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. Oh, I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay

I sleep all night and I work all day.





Chorus: .... He's a Lumberjack and he's OK

Don't know why I thought about Monty Python.

[arbusto_baboso]

11. Do you put on women's clothing and hang around in bars?

[Ichingcarpenter]

42. I wish to complain on the strongest possible terms

Dear Sir,


I wish to complain on the strongest possible terms about the previous entry in this webpage about the lumberjack who wears womens' clothes. Some of my best friends are lumberjacks, and only a few of them are transvestites.


Yours faithfully,
Brigadier Sir Charles Arthur Strong (Mrs.)

The skit needs the letter at the end.

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. Heh. I try. n/t

[arbusto_baboso]

10. "It's not the first time I've been on fire and it probably won't be the last."

That was said to be by a buddy who actually is a professional blacksmith. He makes his living creating weapons for historical reenactors.

[jdlh8894]

16. He probably knows more than a MIT Grad.

And that would be in his little finger!(Which I hope didn't get burned)

[hedgehog]

19. My son has a problem with his HR people - his company needs hands-on engineers.

HR wants to focus 0n the 4.0 types from "top" schools, when what they need is the person who pulled a 3.0 or even a 2.8 while working at a machine shop or light industrial plant and/or club projects like a solar powered car or ultimate bicycle.

[jdlh8894]

21. Have the HR people

put them head to head on a project(not on paper,a real situation)
Bet your son comes out WAY on top! Luck.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Yes and no... the MIT grad will actually

make it easier to perfect metals...

But hey, what do we need that book learnin' fer?

[jdlh8894]

27. But can he form them to exact. specs. without a book?

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. yes... but whatever, why do we need book learnin'?

i am sure your friend, working with metals, could also run a collider.

the point is that we despise book learnin' in this country... have since colonial times... just call them as I see them.

[jdlh8894]

33. Wasn't my friend. Just responding to a post.

If we despise "book learin'" in this country,WHY are there so many PUBLIC Libraries?

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. We do, and you can thank for that the other opsing force

and both Franklin for the IDEA of a public library, very Enlightenment concept and Carneggie for funding them

You don't believe me? Two books that deal SPECIFICALLY wiht this subject...

Hoffstader's on Anti intellectualism

http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellectualism-American-Life-Richard-Hofstadter/dp/0394703170

And Jacoby's The Age of American Unreason

http://www.amazon.com/Age-American-Unreason-Susan-Jacoby/dp/0375423745

[lumberjack_jeff]

40. Why assume a blacksmith doesn't read?

The ability to diagnose and fix things is a core competency of anyone who claims to be a critical thinker.

The collider is of no value to a physicist whose incomprehensible car won't take him there.

[formercia]

53. I worked as a Blacksmith's Apprentice for a Summer

He had spent 7 years in Germany learning his trade. He knew his shit.

[Abq_Sarah]

85. There seems to be a prejudice

Among some so-called "educated" people that anyone who makes their living fixing or repairing things (with the exception of doctors) is an uneducated boob who needs to be told what to do and what to think by his "betters".

[Hannah Bell]

81. pfft.

[hedgehog]

31. It's a case of the right tool for the job. A typical carpenter is not going to

know a quark from a boson, but I wouldn't want a typical physicist framing my house, either. Research is one thing, practical application is another.

On another level, you have the scientist vs. the engineer. The truth is, one is pretty useless without the other, and vice verse.

Another example: the universities which recruit excellent researchers but neglect hiring any teachers. A research institution needs researchers, a university needs both teachers and researchers. At the school I attended, the math department assigned basic calculus courses to the lowliest, most inexperienced grad students. As a result, engineering students came into mid-level engineering course with a rather fuzzy understanding of basic concepts. One engineering professor took 45 minutes of class time and taught us more calculus than we'd learned in three courses from the Math department. (Of course, the engineering department refused tenure to an excellent teacher because he wasn't the greatest researcher, and gave tenure to a researcher who showed up for afternoon classes three sheets to the wind!)

An excellent plumber is infinitely more admirable than an incompetent philosopher. The society that scorns excellence in plumbing because plumbing is a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy. Neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water. --John Gardner

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Exactly, but there is a silly belief

round the US that them book learnin' should not be trusted and is a waste of time 'way.

My hubby is going back to college and believe it or not got some shrift from his fellow postal employees. Why do that? Why go to college? Of course it came with them liberals will fill his head (he is by the current standards)... and this is a classic case of not trusting book learnin'

[trotsky]

68. That is indeed a huge problem.

Anti-intellectualism is not restricted to the right wing.

[raccoon]

74. I wonder if Anti-intellectualism is as strong in other industrialized countries as in the US. nt

[jdlh8894]

35. Nicely said!

Wish I had more time to talk.

[lumberjack_jeff]

37. "Neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water" +1 n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. People are losing facility with every kind of tangible skill.

This phenomenon is why I chose my signature.

[Warren Stupidity]

26. I've lost my wheel to drive!

[ensho]

14. women will probably step in and take up the tools

and add a new perspective

[denverbill]

15. Why learn those trades when illegals immigrants will do them for 1/2 your wage?n/t

[Bunny]

17. Aren't carpentry and masonry more like trades rather than incidental skills?

And how many people need horseshoes anymore?

[Warren Stupidity]

18. aren't jokes just wrecked by analysis?

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. Frankly, I don't think it's a joke.

Devaluing tangible skills has ramifications for our society and economy.

An economy in which no one makes or fixes anything is one in decline.

[LanternWaste]

43. Unless of course the joke is already wrecked...

Unless of course the joke is already wrecked by and of itself, prior to any analysis.

[Warren Stupidity]

45. excellent point

well done sir

[TK421]

20. They don't club their women over the head like in the old days

and their mammoth hunting skills fucking suck...call Congress right fucking now

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Farting in public is so 2009.

Elevators, that's where all the cool kids are farting.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. 2011: the year of the snart.

[Cali_Democrat]

51. What's a snart?

[Warren Stupidity]

54. According to 30 Rock

It is a sneeze induced fart.

[Cali_Democrat]

56. LOL

[NoPasaran]

24. Shoot, today's youngins barely know ONE way to skin a cat!

[jdlh8894]

29. An old tree limb is how I remember.

[Chorophyll]

28. Yes. We're also seeing a dearth of coopers, cartwrights, and

men who can dance the Virginia Reel. Sad times, sad times.

Oh well. I'm off to make some Apple Brown Betty and a large quilt.

[hunter]

38. Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys knew what a car's distributor cap did...

... and they could fix a balky ignition system.

Even the nuns in "The Sound of Music" knew how to disable a Nazi vehicle.

Now that's all computers under the hood and if you muck about with anything in the slightest the car either won't work, or it will remember your violation and rat you out at the next smog test to a mechanic who will shake his head and go tsk, tsk and charge you $400 to sweet talk the machine out of its "check-engine-light" snit.

My kids won't touch cars and I sort of understand why. I'll muck with cars, but it always pisses me off. I recently repaired a car in which the electric radiator fan was controlled by it's own little computer which had burned out because one of the screws holding it down had come out making the computer lose contact with the metal underneath which it used as a heat sink.

In comparison the 27 year old car I drive has a fan driven by a belt. You can see how it works or what's wrong with it simply by looking at it.

I think the problem with today's technology is that it's often so complex there's no easy jumping off place to get into it.

[csziggy]

39. The first of the Baby Boomers lost a lot of life skills

The part below is from my post on this thread - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x307974

Many, including my older sisters, did little or no cooking from scratch, almost no sewing, and bought mostly permapress or no iron clothes for themselves and their spouses. The men of the families worked too many hours to do the household repairs and chores themselves so they hired them out to specialists. My older brothers-in-law know little plumbing or carpentry and never had any interest in doing those things, even for the one who worked for a time as a plumber's assistant (he ended up being a tool holder since he never really wanted to work with plumbing to start with).

Later Baby Boomers were part of the "back to the earth" movement that came out of the 1960s. A lot of us returned to doing hands on work, the women not just working with traditional female chores, but learning to do our own carpentry and plumbing, farming and animal husbandry. Some even took the movement farther by re-learning older skills such as dyeing, spinning and weaving their own cloth from wool or other fibers they raised themselves on their farms (as sheep or cotton or other types).

This whole thing is cyclical - many basic skills had been lost at the end of the 1800s, then the Arts & Crafts movement was part of a revival of handicrafts that spread across our culture. During the Depression and World War II, many that had land had gardens to supplement the food available at markets - the needed skills were relearned or revived though economic or wartime necessity. It is part of the way our history flows.

For instance, my mother was brought up on a farm in a house with no electricity or indoor plumbing. She learned from her mother all those basic skills needed to grow, harvest, preserve, and prepare food from real scratch, not just from "fresh" materials bought from a store. Once she left the farm and married, she was introduced to a middle class style of life. To her, luxury was being able to open a can of green beans rather than having to pick, clean, and cook them or to be able to go to the store and buy bread rather than having to make it herself.

Mom never understood why I would want to live on a farm, bake my own bread, or even have a vegetable garden. She thought she had raised us to be "beyond" those onerous chores. I do think she understands that being able to do those things by choice rather than necessity makes a tremendous difference.

I know a lot of men of the latter part of the Baby Boomers and after that do have the "lost" skills. Talented carpenters, both framing and finishing, cabinet makers, plumbers, even some blacksmiths. One young man I know is a farrier (trims horses' hooves, and makes and puts shoes on horses) and also a talented blacksmith who makes elegant iron work. A nephew-in-law is a history teacher during the week, but does masonry and carpentry on the weekends and over the summer.

The skills may not be as commonly known as before, but they are there.

[edbermac]

41. I watch The New Yankee Workshop on PBS once in a while.

Does that count for anything?

[Warren Stupidity]

44. I have all those machines in my garage!

I have no idea what they are doing there.

[lumberjack_jeff]

58. Roy Underhill is more my style.

If I can't build it with a hatchet and a handsaw, I probably don't need it. :D

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2900/2901.html

[Leithan]

46. It started before Y

We used to actually fucking BUILD things in this country. Gone away.

[Adsos Letter]

47. "By Hammer and Hand All Arts Do Stand." n/t

[eShirl]

48. that's what the Society for Creative Anachronism is for

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/arts_and_sciences.html

[CRK7376]

49. I'm no smithy

and have little masonry experience. But I can do capentry and some plumbing. Skills taught to me by my father, along with a tad bit of masonry. My 12 yo daughter changed the oil on my truck this weekend with me only parking the truck on the ramps and loosening the oild drip pan nut and oil filter. She did the rest and did it well. She also knows how to change and rotate tires. 17yo son does too, now my 21 yo son will not. he has been showed many times but just isn't interested or willing to do self service projects....Oh well.

[uncle ray]

50. how sad that so many mock the loss of skilled workers.

ironic that there is actually well paying work in many fields that people are mocking in this thread.

[Liberal_in_LA]

55. lol. what about the manly art of horse shoeing?

[Bettie]

71. There are still a few farriers schools in the country

And the people who do this make good money because it is a skill that few have anymore.

It requires some training, a strong back, and a way with animals.

[old mark]

57. I can't forge iron, but I'm a great cook and a pretty good guitar player....

of course, I'm way too old to be a Gen Y...I'm an early Boomer!


mark

[eShirl]

59. I brew beer... but that has been variously a "male" or "female" skill depending on time and place

[Manifestor_of_Light]

61. Checking the oil is a good idea.

Dad taught me to check the oil and water and tires in the car, and change the oil.

Mom taught me to cook and sew and garden. Everyone needs to be able to do things with their hands.

It's a matter of being practical, not of gender.

In my grandparents' generation, born in the 1890s, it was sad and hilarious how helpless the men were. They couldn't fix food or change a diaper or do anything at all. They depended on some woman to wait on them hand and foot.

[Canuckistanian]

62. Tell me about it

When I was a boy, I had to fire up the forge with a bellows, make 6 barrel hoops and an iron gate before going to school. Uphill both ways. In bare feet. And I LIKED it.

Try and tell THAT to these "Gen Y'ers" and they look at you like you're from another century. Oh, wait.

[eilen]

63. Wow, it seems like some on DU might like this blog:

The Art of Manliness http://artofmanliness.com/

[lumberjack_jeff]

80. Cool! n/t

[undeterred]

64. What about shoeing horses?

[CommonSensePLZ]

65. I'd love to learn those things but

1. They don't teach them in schools anymore

2. I have no idea where I can learn them and even if I did it probably wouldn't matter because

3. I probably wouldn't have the money for the classes (now anyway) :(

[Art_from_Ark]

66. I used to be pretty good at making pot holders

It's been a while since I've made any, though...

[Bosso 63]

69. Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry Into the Value of Work

Building stuff is fun.
http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/1594202230

[lumberjack_jeff]

78. +1

[Bettie]

70. Our family has these covered

My DH and his brothers all know how to do almost all of this.

DH is the only one who does blacksmithing, but every one of them can make other "stuff". My 3 boys will be taught these skills as well as basic electrical wiring and general maintenance of home, bike, and automobile.

Some may laugh, but working with your hands and knowing how to do that stuff might be important some day.

[lumberjack_jeff]

79. They're important skills today. Credit cards are a workaround. n/t

[TBF]

75. lol nt

[CanonRay]

77. My nephew (27) can fix about anything on his truck

and has an English degree from CU Boulder. Must be an exception.

[MilesColtrane]

82. I'm so manly I don't buy tools from a hardware store.

I fashion them out of raw blocks of iron with my fists.

[Warren Stupidity]

83. me either: I borrow them and never return them. nt

[robdogbucky]

84. Hilarious turnabout Warren...

I don't know if the posters here realize you are pimping the story last weekend from Australia about current young women losing their traditional skills, what with everyone taking tangents as if this were a new conversation, and about the US male.

But we did get the ongoing cat fight between Hanna and nadin.

All is not lost.

With the women losing their skills, I, as a retiree, have assumed most of the homemaking chores, honed from many years of bachelorhood by choice prior to being married several years ago. My wife is still going to the office every day and I am learning for the first time in over 35 years to relax, nap whenever I feel like it, run or go fishing when I want to, surf the net in ungodly amounts of time, etc.

I can raise a garden, fill my freezer for the winter, eat fresh veggies all summer, make all kinds of soups and yummy salads and even bake things like fig bars and sorbets from lemons and tangerines in the yard, put up jams, create dinner from scratch using all fresh and organic basics. I do the laundry, I can iron clothes properly, make all the purchases and repairs for the home, supply all the daily needs like firewood in the winter, etc.

I do realize that doing this in the relative vaccuum of having no little ones to feed, clothe, answer and move around to school, etc., allows me the luxury of time that a young parent with kids would have. We are empty nesters.

I did have the advantage of growing up in a working class family where self-reliance was an early lesson and stood me well over the years. We all learned to keep our rooms clean, to do basic household chores, to make a meal, etc.

I can still change a tire, analyze a mechanical problem and take steps to repair it. I used to be a welder and did lots of construction work in my youth, even though I had a 30-year career working in offices and courts, so I know my way around a shop and a saw, a wrench, a vise, a grinder, an arc welder, a blow torch, etc. I worked for the USForest Service for a couple of fire seasons and can use chain saw, shovel, pic axe, rake, etc. and like to be as self-sufficient as possible.

All is not lost with the US male, although I wonder about the younger generations, growing up in cities and not having a clue about the natural world. Maybe I am too pessimistic and should not stand in the way of the march of time. Shit happens, things change, we always survive. Maybe not always in a comfortable or familiar way, but we survive nonetheless.


Carry on, regardless

[pstokely]

86. Why learn them you can hire cheap labor

:sarcasm:

[AsahinaKimi]

87. I am shocked that most males

Don't know how to shoe a horse!! Than again, I never could change a tire!! :rofl:

[quaker bill]

88. it started well before Gen Y

I bought this house from a fellow boomer, a bit older than me. Given all the stuff he did that I have had to rip out and replace, it would have been good if his picture had been posted at Lowes and Home Depot with the caption "do not sell this man tools".

[PVnRT]

89. All of which are trades that require years of training to do well

I'm amused by the belief, shared by many in this thread, that "everyone" knew these things back in ye olde days.

Then again, I'm one of those horrible, disgusting, scumbag college-educated engineers doing my work out of an office. I should probably just be paid minimum wage with no benefits because I'm such a useless zit on the ass of society. I mean, what could I possibly know?