Who are the Muslim Brotherhood in Eygpt? Some facts

[hlthe2b]

Some facts: Muslim Brotherhood IS NOT an extremist violent Islamic group in Egypt

Seeing the intentional efforts of Fox news and even a recent post here that tried to tie Muslim brotherhood to the most extremist violent forms of Islam, even falsely suggesting they were responsible for the assassination of Anwar Sadat in 1981, I feel the need to try to address this. While I absolutely hope that Egypt becomes a secular democracy and appreciate the need to be wary with respect to all Islamic groups, please don't let this intentional islamophobic propaganda be propagated.


In a nutshell, here is a simple primer on the violent Islamic Group that has tried to operate in Egypt verus the Muslim Brotherhood. Information for this article that is available via HighBeam comes from Harvard International Review, Columbia Encyclopedia, Egypt Daily News and other international resources. MB has been a moderate form of Islam, weeding out its extremists in the 1950s and since, assisting in fighting back against the extremist groups like Al-Gama al-Islamiyya, a highly dangerous splinter group.

Again, I am in no way advocating for the MB to have a major role in Egypt's future governance, hoping that we will see a secular democracy (think Turkey). But I can not sit back and see absolutely untrue information being pushed, for whatever agenda.

OVERVIEW

Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya is an extremist Islamic group operating in Egypt. The group's purpose is to overthrow the government of Egypt and replace it with an Islamic state. The group has been operating since 1970. From 1970–1990, the group's acts of violence were directed at targets considered to be threats to Muslims, including the Egyptian government. During the 1990s, the group began to target tourists in Egypt, with their largest attack involving the death of fifty-eight tourists in Luxor.

Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya is also known as Jamaa Islamiyya, Jamaat al Islamiya, Gamaat Islamiya, Islamic Group, IG, and al-Gama'at.

HISTORY

Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya has been operating in Egypt since 1970. It originated as a set of separate cells linked through contact by the leaders of each cell. Most of the cells formed when members of the Muslim Brotherhood were released from prison by Egyptian President Anwar al-Sadat.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a nonviolent group that has been operating in Egypt since 1928. By the end of the 1940s, the Muslim Brotherhood was thought to have more than a million members. This made it a major political force in Egypt. While the group as a whole kept their nonviolent stance, some members carried out acts of terrorism and violence. In 1954, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood was accused of an assassination attempt on President Gamal Abd al-Nasser. In response to concerns about the intentions of the group, thousands of members of the Muslim Brotherhood were arrested and held in prisons and concentration camps, including being tortured. This led some members of the group to argue that the government of Egypt was anti-Muslim, with violent action needed to overthrow the government. In 1970, Anwar al-Sadat became the president of Egypt and began releasing former members of the Muslim Brotherhood. Some of the former members of the Muslim Brotherhood were now convinced that a violent response was needed. These members formed cells in various parts of southern Egypt, with the organization named Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G2-3447100016.html
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1E1-MuslimBr.html
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-96305405.html

The purpose of Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya is to overthrow the government of Egypt and install an Islamic State. Prior to the 1990s, Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya's attacks were focused on groups within Egypt perceived to be opponents of Islam, especially members of the Egyptian government. These perceived opponents included Egyptian government officials, Egyptian security forces, and Coptic Christians. Attacks were carried out mainly in the south of Egypt, where Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya had a stronger hold.

In the 1990s, Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya began targeting tourists and foreigners in Egypt, as well as continuing to engage in violent acts against government …

[cynatnite]

1. They are a religious group with hopes in running the government...

They are positioning themselves as such from everything I've seen. It's easy for them to play moderate and to want to live in peace with everyone...until they get into power and put forth their theocratic agenda. Most religious groups with political interests are like this.

I don't support the Mubarak government at all. That's not it.

A secular government is the last thing they want, IMO.

[hlthe2b]

2. Don't put words in my mouth. I want to see a secular government, obviously

But, MB is a player and those who are strategic should be hoping they can be used to counter the extremist groups like Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya or outsider groups. They were helpful in doing so after the 1997 Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya attacks that resulted in the deaths of over 1000 Egyptians and tourists in violent episodes, including the most publicized attack in Luxor.

Those who would lump all Muslims or Islamic Groups together and assume them to all have violent anti-western goals, anti-democratic goals, undermine our best way of defusing the extremist groups.

Being wary is one thing... I certainly would not want MB to assume a major power base. But, let's not foolishly undermine their utility in moderating the situation.

[cynatnite]

3. Well, I am an atheist...

I'm not making that assumption at all. I said as much. I just don't believe this group when they say they're moderate, wants equality for everyone, and wants to live in peace. They said this in an interview a few days ago and I didn't believe them then.

I don't think they're overtly violent. I do believe they want to govern using their idea of Islam and furthering their religious agenda.

I don't believe what they say right now.

[hlthe2b]

4. There are RW fundamentalist Xians who have called for a theocracy

in South Carolina. They damn well aren't Methodists or Lutherans or UCC. So, would you assume all Christian denominations to be the same as these radical Xians in South Carolina? :shrug:

Why, then would you assume all Muslim groups want an Islamic Theocracy? Perhaps you might engage in discussion with any of the fortunate Iranian Muslims who managed to emigrate following their revolution. Though they remain Muslim, do you really think that THEY wanted an Islamic Republic in Iran?

[cynatnite]

5. Not all religious groups have political aspirations...

There are plenty of Christian groups in this country who want to use their influence to have the country ran as they see fit. They got their way when bush was in office. Look at the White House with the faith-based office.

I never said ALL groups. Get that straight. Of course there are a lot of individuals who want secular and moderate governments. But groups with political aspirations...nope, I don't trust them or their agenda.

I've seen enough to know that I do NOT want religion to have any influence in government.

[hlthe2b]

6. The reality is that they are there are in the neighborhoods

and are influential across a spectrum of Egyptian society, including the poor... I understand the wariness, I really do. But, what would be your solution? Democracies can not exactly exclude members of a religious group from running for office and thus being represented in their government. Even Mubarak could not totally prevent their holding some minority seats in the Parliament. :shrug: I again point to Turkey, where they still manage to maintain a secular balance.

[cynatnite]

7. So are a lot of others...

I'm not denying that there are some benefits, but they are religious with political aspirations. They want at the very least enough influence in social affairs to get their way. It is well known they are socially conservative.

I know everyone has sainted this group as being so wonderful and great. That's fine.

I won't do it. I've got reasons for proceeding with mistrust. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, and other countries are so socially conservative that they beat women, kill gays, and more. They have religious police.

Why should I trust the Muslim Brotherhood? In my eyes, they haven't proven themselves.

If you want to sanctify this group...go ahead. I refuse.

[hlthe2b]

8. Not fair, cynatnite...

We were having a very cordial, constructive discussion and you spoiled it by suggesting I am sanctifying the group or "sainted" the group.... So very disingenuous, given I have repeatedly acknowledged the need to be wary--in every single post. I speak to strategic goals with respect to them, that since they have shown themselves to have moderated in the past SIX DECADES, that they might well be USEFUL in asserting that moderation against the far more threatening Islamic groups. What part of that do you disagree with?

[cynatnite]

9. It's prudent for them to moderate their views...

Anyone can moderate their views to gain wider appeal. It's when they get into power when it all changes.

I've seen a lot of people on DU holding up the Muslim Brotherhood.

You can trust their words if you like, but I don't. They're positioning themselves. That's what groups and indivduals do. I will not trust that.

[hlthe2b]

10. You still don't address the question. What would you do?

What would you have the Egyptians do?

As I said before, the reality is that they are there are in the neighborhoods and are influential across a spectrum of Egyptian society, including the poor... I understand the wariness, I really do. But, what would be your solution? Democracies can not exactly exclude members of a religious group from running for office and thus being represented in their government. Even Mubarak could not totally prevent their holding some minority seats in the Parliament. :shrug: I again point to Turkey, where they still manage to maintain a secular balance.

Would you advocate that instead of a representative democracy, the US back another strong armed autocrat to stamp down the MB and all other Islamic groups?

[cynatnite]

11. Why do you expect me to have a solution?

Because I don't agree with the perception of the Muslim Brotherhood?

Turkey is a good one, but you're ignoring the rest of the Middle East that have religious laws. The Brotherhood operates quite well in those countries where gays and women are beaten and worse.

One good deed does not erase the bad one.

As I said, you can trust them and think what you like. I don't trust them and it will take a lot for me to believe that the Muslim Brotherhood stands by their politically expedient words.

[hlthe2b]

15. You are lumping (once again) all Islamic groups...

But, the fact is that they are there, Egypt is going to have a new government and the MB is going to be a player. I could sit and scream all day how the RW fundies of this country should be muzzled, their ability to fund and influence elections to be stopped, and their IRS tax breaks removed. I could argue many should be officially recognized as hate or terrorist groups, given their attacks on abortion clinics and similar. I can bemoan that all, day, but given this is a democracy, my wishes won't come to pass. I suggest that in the case of EGYPT, that the moderating influence of the MB be used against the extremist groups and that they be strategically incorporated into the future paradigm. You don't agree with that, but you offer no alternative. Very much like me bemoaning the presence of extremist Xian groups..... Cathartic, perhaps, but not very helpful...:shrug:

[cynatnite]

17. Here is what I have said...

I don't trust religious groups with political aspirations. Not all religious groups have political aspirations.

I'm not sure how much more clearly I can make myself.

[hlthe2b]

20. No one here has said otherwise... who here has said they

trust any religious group with theocratic intent? Who?

Nor has anyone here been singing MB's praises. I simply believe in stating the facts and not propaganda that is not supported by those facts.

I have discussed the need to understand this group and how they might actually be useful in preventing what we all fear-- an Islamic theocracy.

[cynatnite]

22. You've highlighted their good deeds...

I explained my outright mistrust. You didn't like it.

That's where we are.

Now, if my opinions are proven wrong over time, I will take back what I've said and apologize. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong about something. I hope I am wrong. It would be great if I am wrong about this. Only time will tell who is right.

[hlthe2b]

25. No, I contrasted them with the truly dangeous Islamic Groups...

Contrasting their behavior and stated beliefs with those who have demonstrated violence is hardly "highlighting their good deeds"

Could you be more disingenuous? Can you not understand the need to distinguish the players for strategic reasons and why that does not equate to "supporting them," "sainting" them, or any other ridiculous, disparaging statement you have attributed quite falsely to my intentions?

[cynatnite]

28. Okay...let me do this one more time...

I voiced my opinion about the MB. You highlighted their good deeds. You are not the first to highlight their good deeds. I said what I said about sainted and sanctifying. I was being sarcastic and did not use the :sarcasm: tag.

I am sorry for that. I will just say from here on out that you "highlighted their good deeds" instead.

I won't change my opinions about this group at all.

[hlthe2b]

31. I contrasted the history, facts and behvior of MB with the truly

demonstrated dangerous ISlamic groups. You seem to be determined to deride me with suggestions that I support MB in some way other than correcting the record and a pragamatic discussion of how they could meet our (and Egypt's secular) strategic aims.

I would like to accept your apology and point out that we are in near agreement on all aspects. I am an agnostic and am not the most trusting when it comes to exploitation of religion for political aims either. But, until you can meet me in that honest realm, I am sad to say your apology rings hollow.

[cynatnite]

33. Well, I don't know what else to tell you...

I voiced my opinion and you disagreed. You called me disingenuous because of how I stated your position. I felt you had a point. I apologized.

It seems that it doesn't matter what I say, you will never be satisfied.

I'll step out of this now so you can call yourself the winner.

[TBF]

12. Well with all due respect it's not up to you, it's up to the folks in Egypt.

Or at least it should be.

[cynatnite]

13. Wow! So I guess I should shutup since I don't sing this group's praises.

:sarcasm:

[TBF]

14. That's not what I said. I don't have a preference either way, but at least

I recognize it isn't up to me.

[cynatnite]

19. Well, it just seemed like it was a way of shutting me down since I wasn't going with the majority...

It's a tactic used on DU more often than it should be.

[TBF]

23. What majority? One person posted an OP. nt

[cynatnite]

27. Sorry, I should have elaborated more...

In the past history of DU, when one makes a comment contrary to the majority, at least one DUer will usually come out and say something to the effect that it's not up to you (meaning the person who is voicing their unpopular opinion). I've seen it happen with a variety of issues. It's a tactic.

Now, I admit I assumed you were using it as a tactic as is commonly done here on DU. I am sorry for that. Please accept my apologies.

[gateley]

35. Someone who knows the Middle East (I forget what his post was) said that

they are almost just a social organization now. That years ago they split from the violent faction condemning the practice of violence, and that they are indeed moderate.

I'm not doubting your observations, but this man has a deeper knowledge of the realities than any of us do.

Edit: Not sure, but I don't think there is such as word as modeerate.

[hlthe2b]

37. Juan Cole has said that... Middle Eastern Expert & blogger

http://www.juancole.com/

[cynatnite]

40. I didn't type "modeerate"...

Not that I could find. Or maybe you were talking to someone else?

[gateley]

43. No! I was talking about myself -- I edited out my typo. Man, now I feel bad

that you went looking through your posts! And even if you HAD, it wouldn't have been important. We've got more important things to discuss and think about than spell checking other DUers.

But again, it was my own type. I've got a million of 'em.

[cynatnite]

45. It's all good...

:patriot: :hi:

[Karenina]

16. Your slip is showing...

There's lipstick on your teeth and toilet paper trailing off your shoe. Only a friend would tell you so.

[hlthe2b]

18. Meaning?

[Uzybone]

21. only a compete fool would believe that an Islamist group wants a secular govt

I hope they are frozen out of the New Egypt. The last thing Africa needs is more dogmatic religion.

[hlthe2b]

24. If you bothered to read what I have written, I call for understanding

who they are, who the true dangerous Islamic groups are, and how MB MIGHT be used strategically to contain these other more dangerous groups. What part of that and what part of educated, intellectual discussion can YOU not understand?

No where have I voiced support for MB. I simply think we need to be smart enough to educate ourselves on who the players really are in Egypt.

?

[cynatnite]

29. Oh, I think they are dangerous...

Their socially conservative views makes them that in my book.

[Uzybone]

30. MB IS dangerous. An MB ruled Egypt would be more repressive than Iran

and it will not be close. Keep pumping up religious fundamentalists though.

[hlthe2b]

32. Stop being so disingenous. I am not

"pumping up religious fundamentalists"... You KNOW that. I am contrasting what we know of this group with what we know of the demonstrably violent Islamic groups in Egypt's past and present and discussing how MB might be strategic in countering this.

You can whine and bemoan the fact that there are Muslims and Islamic groups all you wish. But an adult would look at how those factions can be contained. If you lump all Islamic groups in one big cesspool, in keeping with the Islamophobia that has overcome many in this country, that you foolishly loose any opportunity to adopt a more strategic approach and exploit a possible advantage towards a secular outcome. You simply create more cause and justification for western resentment.

[Uzybone]

34. its not Islamophobia

I just think the world would be a better place without ANY religious fanatics who have eyes on running countries. MB fits that to a tee.

I guess you are just being hopeful that they will be moderate IF they come to power, or that they can help moderate the more violent and apocalyptic factions. I doubt it.

[hlthe2b]

36. No.. I am hoping they do NOT come to power... I discuss

how they might be useful in ASSURING a SECULAR outcome. Would you kindly take a step back from whatever preconceived notions you brought with you to this thread and actually read what I am saying?

We are actually not that far apart if you would not abscribe false words, goals, or intent in my post.

[Uzybone]

38. You are correct, and I agree that they might be useful

I just have no faith that they will do any good here. I will lament if they somehow get their hands on the levers of power in Egypt.

I hope El-Baradei (or whoever emerges) is strong enough to actually lead a secular government until they can hold legit elections.

[hlthe2b]

39. I agree.

:thumbsup:

[hlthe2b]

26. Only a complete fool would choose to remain ignorant and not

at least try to understand and distinguish between the players involved. (or Faux news propagandists with their own motives for doing so)

[Recursion]

41. For a non-violent group they sure have a way of spawning very violent groups

Jamaat, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jyhad. Yes, it's true they all splintered off because they judged MB was too moderate, but how far are the apples falling from the tree, here?

[hlthe2b]

42. One could say that of nearly any group or leader...

From Gandhi to MLK to Jesus Christ... Angry extremists often start with a common belief but become angry at their disagreement at the margins.

Just sayin... That is about like holding the family of a murderer responsible for the single aberrant family member.

[Recursion]

44. I'm more pro-MB than most people you will find on the net

But then again back in the day I would have liked Marat. I'm just bracing for disappointment, because revolutions tend to end that way.