noon report CNN Egypt: Cairo side streets are now violent battles

[grasswire]

The reporter said that he walked the side streets from the square and saw a whole different aspect than is going on in the square where people are in a festive spirit. He said mobs of young men are fighting furiously on the side streets and that the anti-government protestors have taken ground on these streets for several blocks.

BTW, why is CNN so ditzy this morning? All light and fluffy stories, with about one minute for the Egypt update.

[PaddyBlueEyes]

1. Yeah..I live in the Northeast and I know its cold

I'd like to know whats happening in Egypt...

[redwitch]

2. Coverage of Punxatawney Phil seemed surreal to me.

given the current state of the world.

I guess it keeps the nice people of Punxatawney solvent though so there is that.

[David__77]

3. There is no political power without force.

Street fighters represent embryonic state authority. The question is: can they make the leap to smashing the older order? The main thing for me, is that the US should withdraw its tentacles from Egypt and allow that country to exercise its sovereignty.

[HereSince1628]

4. If true, that pretty much stops cold nonviolent progress

I hope that there actually is moral-suasion. I hope that the brutality of authority causes a moral pain that erodes away at the will of those who wield brutality against those who put themselves in its path.

Because, in order to reveal the most distasteful self-loathing of those who exert your type of power, someone must be willing not to crack heads, but to have their heads cracked.

That submission to demonstrate the abusive nature of an abuser to his/herself takes real moral courage. I'd hate to think that belief in nonviolence is a vapid mistake.

[Marr]

7. Nonviolent resistance has worked in the past partially because of the credible threat of violence.

People like Ghandi and MLK were called mediators for a reason. They were peaceful alternatives to more aggressive activists.

If you think thugs will eventually have an epiphany from slugging you in the face and realize they're wrong, I'll have to respectfully disagree.

[HereSince1628]

9. You are of course entitled to your opinion.

Groups of we Homo sapiens define ourselves in terms of 'us' and 'them.' And it is our nature to buy into violence against 'them.' That violence can and does shred many lives.

But it is also in our nature to think of ourselves as good. The realization that 'I and we' are bad is always an epiphany. It requires a degree of morality which although lacking in individuals is usually present within a group.

[blindpig]

10. Non-violence only works when violence stands behind it.

Even Gandhi knew that, his non-violent campaign only worked because the alternative was all hell breaking loose. The ruling class is never persuaded by moral sensibilities.

[HereSince1628]

11. I didn't know Ghandi believed that... could you put me onto

a source for him saying that? It would be interesting to know, even if it doesn't change my mind.

[David__77]

12. Indeed. Ghandi had armed peasants and communists to compete with.

There were somewhat successful armed uprisings of communist-led peasant armies in the 1940s, resisting landlords and British imperialism. They weren't handing out flowers, they were beheading occupiers. Making the enemy losses untenable is a winning strategy.

[blindpig]

8. Probably not this time.

The workers will probably be sold out by the bourgeoisie as usual. Concessions will be made, food pries will be controlled(for now), the iron fist will loosen(for now).

This is the way of things. The good news is that the Egyptian and other people have gained invaluable confidence and will be ready for the next time, which surely will come.

[justiceischeap]

5. My guess is that the pro-democracy demonstrators are fighting to keep Tahrir Sq

from being overrun by the thugs.

[BeFree]

6. Tanks are blocking Mubarak's goons

The Army may have gotten the message that the world is watching them and we do NOT like what we saw the last two days?