I'm getting sued by hospital emergency room I went to last year.

[Skip Intro]

I had no insurance and I thought I was having an heart attack. They did tests, gave me oxygen, tended to me, etc. I went there because I had no insurance, like millions of people. That's where you go. First time in an emergency room in decades, for myself.

Turned out it was anxiety, not a heart issue at all. (man, I felt like I was going to die)

Anyway, I was taking the trash out to the curb a couple of weeks ago, some guy pulled up, and served me with papers. The hospital is suing me in small claims court for three plus thousand dollars for that visit to the emergency room.

Yes, they sent me notices, and I don't want to sound like I'm whining, but I was laid off months ago, no insurance, and unemployment compensation to stay afloat. I couldn't pay these charges. I figured they'd be written off or something. Go to collections. Go on my once pristine credit report. But no, they're suing me.

Now the point of relating this story wasn't to whine about being out of work. Or just hanging on, I think I'll make it financially. I'm sure a good job is right around the corner, and I'll file bankruptcy to keep my house. But this health care system. I'm being sued, taken to court, having a legal judgment against me, because I got sick.

I know there are horror stories out there, and mine pales in comparison. But it just blows my mind. It just shouldn't be this way.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. It should not be this way, my dear Skip Intro...

I hope you can find a way out of this.

How dare they?

I've never heard of such a thing...

Damn them.

[Skip Intro]

3. Thanks, Peggy, but there is a simple, easy way out of this.

Job is coming, I have no doubt.

House is secure, will remain so. I think.

This emergency room deal is like a mosquito to me. Can't get blood from a turnip.

And no matter what, they can't take my birthday, lol.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. Hang in there!

And you're right...they can't take your birthday!

:hug:

[pnwmom]

23. You could have tried what a friend of mine did with a 5K bill.

She wrote the hospital a letter describing her financial circumstances and they cancelled the bill -- in full. Many hospitals have funds that they use for this purpose.

[cutlassmama]

59. Correct. They do and often will "forgive" it for circumstances like the OP has.

My bill for this past December was $100,000.00

[proud2BlibKansan]

128. Yes hospitals will forgive the bill sometimes

but you have to ask.

Someone close to me had a hospital bill for an injury. The hospital not only forgave a large portion of the bill, they also arranged for physical therapy at no charge.

[PSzymeczek]

152. I've beem telling the

credit card companies that since I lost my job nearly five years ago.

[RSillsbee]

4. How dare they?

Right! how dare they expect to actually be paid for services rendered? Don't they know that hospitals should be expected to give out care for free. Who in the hell are those damn Dr.s expecting to get paid for what they do.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. You misunderstand me.

Of course the hospital should be paid. I would never say otherwise. But I think it's wrong for them to sue for payment.

[RSillsbee]

11. Hospitals run on a pretty tight budget

They may have no option but to sue

[Hugabear]

27. Yes that's why they charge hundreds of dollars for an aspirin

When you go down the list of hospital charges, many of them are quite outrageous. Nobody's saying that hospitals shouldn't get paid for their services. That's a pure strawman, show me where any DUer has said that hospitals should work for free. What we need in this country is a viable single-payer system.

[Moral_Imagination]

37. Umm they charge so much

because of all of the scenerios when they get nothing. Yes we need single payer, but with our current system the Hospitals need money to survive and the ER can't be free. Actually it MUST be a ripoff in order to make up for the times they get no money at all.

[sendero]

78. They charge so much..

... because the give contractual "discounts" to health insurers for service rendered, often these discounts range in the 40-80% range. So they charge "full price" (which is a joke) to everyone without insurance to try to make up the difference. Of course, many or even most of those without insurance cannot pay.

The corruption of the system would make a banana-republic dictator blush. And it is only tolerated because most people have insurance and very few understand how it works.

[Gormy Cuss]

102. The whole pricing system is set up to inflate the "full price"

because that way the negotiated discounts look more substantial and the insurance companies can pat themselves on the back for doing such a good job of whacking down the price. Hospitals can not afford to sell services to most patients at 60% or less of the true cost -- that's a losing proposition. There will never be enough uninsured patients paying full freight to make up that loss. That's also why most hospitals are willing to negotiate a lower price when an uninsured patient offers them less.

[Mimosa]

170. REAL HEALTH CARE REFORM was scuttled to protect ins. corp profits.

The biggest opportunity was blown in order to protect insurance company and hospital corporation profits.

I've studied the issue for 20 years. Sadly I know why we were screwed. The health care industry comprises 16% of GDP in the US. Health care entities from drug manufacturers to clinics, medical devices and the health insurers are for profit corporations. People and funds invest in these corporations for profit.

President Obama was probably told if he tried to change the system the stock market would crash. So nothing substantive to change this system was done.

[raccoon]

201. I like the way you think!

"President Obama was probably told if he tried to change the system the stock market would crash."

[druidity33]

112. To follow up your post...

that discounted aspirin? Oh, about $70...

:eyes:


The "discounts" are just as big a scam as the full price products and services.


:(

[Athena66]

130. Yes, well

at least some of those "banana republics" have universal health care. Unlike us. If Americans really understood how they were being scr*wed over by the insurance companies and health care system, they would be in the streets demonstrating. Unfortunately, they believe the lies being fed them that we have the "bestest" system and the "bestest" country in the world.

[Honeycombe8]

160. They charge so much because they are "for profit" businesses.

Not all hospitals are. And hospitals didn't used to be for profit, I think. But besides having to compensate the hospital for the true cost of an aspirin (the cost of the pill, plus costs for % of staff and other overhead), there is also a percentage added for the profit.

That's why.

Bill Maher did a routine on this once. It's unethical, in a way, for an institutional care provider to be in the business for a profit. Because the more they do, the more they can charge for and profit from. It's no longer about what's best for the patient. Sure, they may try to keep the patient's best interest at the forefront. But it's a conflict of interest, at best.

When a dr., the AMA, or the Cancer organization "recommends" I have a procedure, I sometimes wonder, would they still "recommend" that, if they had to give it to me for free? I wonder. Or would it suddenly become not so important for me to have that test?

[Hannah Bell]

206. there was a recent study done that they charge in proportion to their market power, i.e.

the biggest charge the most.

which suggests they charge so much because they CAN.

tight budgets my ass.

[Maine-ah]

94. depending on the amount of the bill

I would think that it would cost less to forgive the bill than to pay lawyers to sue. My hospital tried suing me for $250.00

[bobbolink]

150. Thank you for demonstrating to the new Brit poster the common attitude here.

It is hard to believe until you actually see it.

Thanks.

[Egalitariat]

185. What should they do?

[arikara]

9. That sounds rather heartless and

I hope it wasn't meant the way it came across.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

19. I see.

And you have seen statistically significant numbers of these people?

I'm sure folks like these exist.

I'm also sure there are abuses in the system. But your statement is quite broad-brush.

Can you back it up?

[Dappleganger]

21. Way to blame the victim.

[Matariki]

22. OMG did you come here from some kind of Ronald Reagan mausoleum?

"welfare moms"? "waited on hand and foot"? "Medicaid is payin' fo my baby"??????

And what is that last one? Let me guess, that's your caricature of the way you think black women talk? Fucking hell. Your name doesn't happen to be James O'Keefe does it?

[Hugabear]

38. This one has managed to lurk around pretty well

But eventually these trolls just can't help themselves. The racism festers inside their tiny little brains until it eventually just comes out.

[donheld]

26. Facepalm

[jbnow]

28. Are you also the voice of someone who has heard republicans claim

of course everyone is covered, they can go to the emergency room
Even Dems say how the rest of us have to pay...
as though people who go there just go for free
and don't get billed and dunned and their credit ruined and their bank accounts wiped out

Maybe you aren't the voice of someone who knows that too many underemployed or unemployed people who have no insurance and barely get by...

oh never mind.
It says enough that you say "And far too many welfare moms show up to have their babies and expect to be waited on hand and foot because "Medicaid is payin' fo my baby"

What's that accent there? And do women not on Medicaid expect less service or that women on Medicaid should get less.
Many states do have programs for uninsured pregnant women to get Medicaid that otherwise wouldn't qualify because they want that mother/child cared for. They won't have it for themselves soon after leaving the hospital. And if health care goes through Medicaid will be expanded so there will be even more women on Medicaid covering those births.

You know a lot of working poor parents make such bad wages already that they get Medicaid. With rules that have been in place a long time even if people wanted to they don't sit home for years drawing welfare and popping out babies.

And too many go because "they don't want to pay for tylenol"? I do not believe you. I do not believe that people would prefer to spend hours waiting than to buy tylenol. I believe it has happened, I certainly believe that people go in with some pain or swelling or whatever and it ends up the doctor just gives them tylenol

Your post disturbs me

[Hugabear]

30. "welfare moms" and "Medicaid is payin' fo my baby" - WTF?

Freudian racist slip?

[Hello_Kitty]

104. I didn't see it before it was deleted but seeing this kind of rhetoric on DU isn't surprising

Uninsured people are constantly maligned here. I guess you have to do that to convince yourself that the uninsured are the cause of the problems with health care and that simply mandating that they buy insurance will solve everything.

[Mimosa]

172. Kitty,ITA. D.U.'s financially well off seem oblivious to those who are barely hang on.

Sometimes I feel I'm on a Republican conservative board trying to plead for understanding. have you ever felt that way?

[Enthusiast]

136. No slip....nt

[Bonobo]

32. Racist. nt

[Codeine]

35. Jesus fuck. Did you really just fucking type that?

:wow:

[Skip Intro]

36. Let me tell you something.

I've worked since I was 16. I've busted my ass for years in my small role of keeping this whole big machine going. I'm a little pissant, I guess, in the whole scheme of things. Fine, fine with me, I never worried about it. But I didn't have the good insurance, any insurance at all, when I fell ill. No job, after decades of working. Suddenly all I have is in peril. I never set out to game the system. How dare you.

But here's the thing. We're not talking about driving a nice car, or taking vacation or fucking retirement. We're talking about someone who has played by the rules for decades and got sick. And went where others go when they get sick, and lack that special card that gives them, me, priority standing in a medical facility.

This is health care we're talking about. This is about whether someone lives, suffers, or dies. And my point was that it shouldn't be this way. My God, does nothing trump profit to people like you?

[Matariki]

42. You don't have to explain yourself to fools.

Your OP was clear - you weren't saying "poor me" - you were very clearly discussing the travesty that is our national healthcare system. One where extremely greedy fucks stand between people needing medical care and the medical care they need. Greedy fucks who care more about their rate of return than whether human beings live or die.

[Skip Intro]

46. thanks

:)

[Enthusiast]

137. Right on!

:fistbump:

[Mz Pip]

101. How much is it costing them to sue?

All that paperwork, court costs, etc probably is costing them more than your actual visit.

What is the likelihood of them actually collecting at this point? Doesn't seem like all this fuss will do much to enhance their profits.

Sorry you are having to go through all of this. Maybe you could talk to a local legal aid attorney and see what your options are.

[XanaDUer]

134. No need to explain

:hug: America's healthcare system is an abomination.

[Matariki]

20. You know, if we lived in a civilized country we would have national health care

Like every other 'first world' nation in existence. And you know that was the OP's point.

[sudopod]

31. In civilized countries they don't ruin your life over bad health.

Health care is a human right, not a god damn commodity.

[du_da]

183. Nice concept

but it isn't historically accurate nor is it an agreed upon definition in our society. If we indeed want health care, not just emergency care but health care to be a right then we need to have that as an honest and civil discussion with the rest of society. We might get there some day, but we aren't there yet.

Keep in mind when we start that that conversation. The problem with the assumption that health care is a right is that at this point it can only be provided by another human. Considering a service to be a right establishes an obligation on others, which is why those on in the RW have a problem with the concept.

We can bring society around on this issue but we have to be honest both about what we want and what the obstacles are.

[sudopod]

193. Civil rights for black people and women were not agreed upon by society at one time in history.

Thank god that people in that age didn't sit on their asses and behave "reasonably." The founding fathers asserted a great number of rights in the face of the weight of law and history. As far as obligations go, we are currently obligated to fund the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people whose names we will never know. In the face of that, paying for a few doctors visits each year seems a very small imposition.

Let us not even mention that there are dozens of countries all over the world where government-funded healthcare isn't some bizarre theoretical construct, but an everyday reality. People there are often horrified when they discover how we treat our poorest and most vulnerable citizens.

Maybe you should go somewhere else, where people are more comfortable with the status quo.

[du_da]

194. Very different scenario

because civil rights are negative rights not positive rights. They do not establish an obligation on others. Others can go about their daily lives without any alterations resulting from civil rights unless their expected actions were the infringement of another individuals' rights but that is no different that telling someone they can't murder their neighbor. Negative rights are easy to justify if not occasional difficult to implement. However, with health care we are talking about positive rights. A much more difficult sell although I think we are in agreement a worthy conversation none the less.

You mention how this would be a relatively small imposition by comparison to the weight of the military obligation that we the people agreed too. That is a very good point and one that should be argued. However, the problem comes in assuming that we can't simply enforce such an imposition regardless of how insignificant. We have a word for that, it is called dictatorship and I don't think we want to go in that direction nor do I think the people would appreciate our trying.

You mention other countries, I use to live in Germany, I am well aware of the differences. Those two are good examples we can use in the discussion. However, don't think for a moment that if it doesn't come via discussion but instead by dragging people along kicking and screaming that we won't find ourselves being figuratively strung up by our toenails for trying.

Again, we should have the discussion but we have to have it throughout society which means we have to engage those who are not already part of the choir.

[sudopod]

195. Clearly advocating for people not dying of preventable diseases or

freezing to death == dictatorship.

[du_da]

196. Advocating it isn't

forcing others to provide such a service would be. Remember the benevolent dictator is still a dictator. What I am talking about though is the difference between advocating and forcing. That is the line we have to make sure we do not try to cross.

[sudopod]

199. Oh Jeezus.

I guess you're being oppressed because you're being forced to pay for road maintenance and public education too. You can't be for real.

[du_da]

204. The difference being

that the people have bought into those things that is the whole point, we are trying to sell them on a new obligation. Are you under the impression that we have the right to simply establish obligations without the approval of the populace? The question among us is not is this a worthy endeavor, what we need to get straight is how do we go about getting everyone else on-board. The quickest way to loose their support for such an endeavor regardless of how good an idea it is would be to try to force it upon them.

[Dash87]

76. Because hospitals are putting profit above human life.

Don't you think there's something wrong with that?

Health should never be a private sector business in the first place.

[Enthusiast]

138. There should be no profit derived

from health care. Period. :fistbump:

[Mimosa]

173. Dash, it's not the hospitals.

They become the enforcers for the system. The system which was cemented into place by the 'Affordable heath Act of 2010.'

[sibelian]

90. Well, Rillsbee *I* live in a country in which hospitals DO give out care for free.

I have been assaulted and required treatment for concussion, required hand surgery for an accident, needed hearing tests, been admitted to hospital for stomach problems, all sorts of things.

Guess what I paid? NOTHING.
Guess what my employers paid? NOTHING.
Guess what my insurance company paid? NOTHING.

Do you know what else? EVERYONE in my country benefits from this system, regardless of financial status, social status, skin colour, sexual orientation, age, height, religious preferences, gender and even, in some cases, NATIONALITY (as some nations spend a little of their taxes on paying out to the NHS on behalf of their populace to cover any expenses to the NHS incurred by their citizens when visiting - by agreement with the UK Government).

Do you know why? Because I live a country in which it is considered disgusting to exploit the misfortune of other people for profit!

Pretty cool, huh??? :D

Do you know what else?

I WORK for the National Health Service in the UK, and out of all of my friends I am the only one not stressed about the possibility of redundancy.

Do you know why? Because the current UK Government, which is as right as right can be, knows in it's nasty little capitalist, money-grubbing value-stripping worthless bones that the NHS is OUT OF BOUNDS, NOT FAIR GAME, BELONGS TO THE PEOPLE and that they will be completely fucked not only at the next election but at least the next THREE elections if they touch it, perhaps mopre like FIVE elections, that's how long the UK populace typically holds grudges. They are trying very hard and very sneakily to push through privatisation through the back door right now, which is scary, but not sufficiently scary to make me worry about my job.

Yay the UK NHS! :D

[flamingdem]

105. Just wondering how long does one have to live there as a resident to

receive care under the UK health system?

As a "British Citizen" - as in have passport but has never lived there officially.

[PatSeg]

107. I was listening to Thom Hartmann on the radio

a few years ago and he was talking about a time when he visited Britain. Its been a while, so I might not have all the details right. His daughter became ill and they called a local doctor. Unfortunately the doctor was leaving for the day, so they couldn't bring the child to the office. So the doctor made a house visit on his way home, examined the girl, and gave them some medication. When Hartmann asked how much he owed the doctor, he was told "nothing". It was covered under their health care system, even if the services were for someone from another country. I think the doctor said something about the Hartmanns being their "guest".

[sibelian]

117. blink. Hmmm

As far as I can tell it's a bit of a grey area. If you move to the UK with some evidence that you plan to stay for a reasonable time, as if you're immigrating, like evidence of a permanent address, you get free access straight away, but if you're just visiting it's more awkward. Many surgeries will now ask for this permanent residence evidence so if you move over here for good and can show it you;re fine, less fine if it looks like you're over here for a week...

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

164. Exactly!!! And in the most brutal of decisions, they've turned health care from a human right ...

into a guarantee of corporate profit!!

Used to be that our hospitals wouldn't ask for financial info before

treating anyone -- it was obligatory that they treat the patient.

With the rise of the right wing we lost this obligation -- as we have

lost so much else!

How nuts do you in the UK think we are? Where are we on the list for

an expected revolt?

Not on the list -- ? Then, why might we be so far from rebellion?



Thanks for your info -- :)

[Mimosa]

175. Sibelian, many of us understand how the NHS works and it doesn't scare us.

It's not 'free', because everybody does pay into the system, for the care of all.

No health care system is actually free. Nothing in life is, except for air. ;)

BUT what the UK offers your citizens is fair. US citizens were denied real change in 2010. Our Congress and our President made a big choice that 16% of the GDP was based on profit based health industry. Those corporations support a lot of politicians and have for DECADES. And rich people get richer by investing in for profit health insurance corps, pharmaceuticals, hospitals, clinics, et cetera.

Once again the message was sent to all that the wealthiest people will be protected at the expense of the working class.

[spotbird]

106. What should a dying, broke patient do?

This is why we needed health care reform instead of health insurance reform.

[rhett o rick]

143. The Republicans agree with you all the way. Show no empathy. Let the poor die. nm

[Mimosa]

171. Many doctors are disgusted at this corrupt system

They know that doctors who work in other countries get paid. They get paid differently through the government collecting money to fund the care of patients.

[wisteria]

159. If he doesn't make any effort to pay and he doesn't call them explaining his circumstances

they can not be blamed for trying to get their money.

[CreekDog]

2. fully civilized nations don't put people through this for health care

and in terms of health care, we are not that civilized.

things will change some, but not enough.

[Enthusiast]

139. The American people prefer the

19th century model for health care. We don't need no stinkin' health care (if we ain't wealthy).

[DearAbby]

6. Call them

Tell them your situation and try to make arrangement for small monthly payments, what you can handle. Make an attempt to at least try, a judge will look favorably on this should it go to court.

:hug: I know this sucks. No civilized country should put their people through this.

[EFerrari]

12. If you call them, take notes. Date and time and who you talk to.

Sorry this is happening, Skip Intro. I'm an accident away from the ER myself.

[grasswire]

8. a caution

I'm not saying that your situation is this scenario, but it would be wise to be sure. We've seen those articles about the peril of missing a court date for a collections suit and then ending up with a bench warrant out for ya.

Did the hospital sell the debt to a collections agency? There might be some value in meeting with the hospital to see if in fact you can get part of it written off, even at this late date. They do that for uninsured peeps. In fact, hospitals have been forced by courts to adjust charges they stuck to uninsured.

[lutherj]

10. Vultures looking for money. They don't know you, and don't care about you. It's just the system.

Don't take it personally. We're all here to feed the corporations. Soylent Green is made of people.

Don't mean to pile on, but the republicans "reformed" the bankruptcy laws a few years ago (love how whenever the republicans suck up to their corporate masters they call it "reform") and now if you file for bankruptcy you will likely lose your house. Unless of course you are wealthy enough to have more than one house. Because you only lose one. You get to keep the rest. See how that works?

Sorry. My heart genuinely goes out to you. I'm in much the same situation. It's just that this country is so messed up it's hard for me to take it seriously anymore. All I can do is look around in disbelief and laugh.

[RandomThoughts]

14. Things are in motion.

Not much longer, hang tough.

[OhioBlue]

13. call the hospital and talk to them about your situation.

If you haven't already, call the collections department at the hospital.

I agree completely. it totally sucks that you're going through this and it shouldn't be this way. I'm only offering you this advice b/c I'm trying to be helpful to you - in no way am I defending the hospital or the health care system.

But... call them.... it has been my experience that sometimes they just turn over "uncollectible" accounts to someone else. and, that "someone else" is a jerk about it. Call the hospital, see what it up, explain your situation and see if there is financial aid or a payment plan that would work for you. My local hospital has worked with me on payment plans before and have offered help with information on financial aid.

Best of luck to you. I truly hope this can be worked out without you having to go to court. that is just awful.

[Sherman A1]

60. Precisely

The more you talk to them the better off you will be. I would do so immediately and try to work out a payment plan of some sort. Even $5.00 per week.

They can't eat you and if you are offering to make payment (and then making a effort to do so) your case looks much better.

[emilyg]

15. Did you respond to the

notices you got from them?

[grasswire]

16. here's a very good article from msn on hospital bill blues

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/ManageDebt/HowToSurviveYourHospitalBills.aspx

[Omaha Steve]

18. K&R!

[napoleon_in_rags]

24. I had the same happen to me.

Unlike you I was employed, and the fees were less, so I scrapped up some loans to settle to avoid wage garnishment. My conditions were different, and it did mess up my credit, but yes, its shocking when it happens. In my case the kicker was that it wasn't even necessary, I was worried about a condition and a litigation paranoid doctor ordered extensive tests I didn't need, but I didn't understand the culture of litigation paranoia that drives doctors to do this. I figured it out later when I called a consulting nurse about a bee sting that was swelling up bad I got by laying in my yard late at night, expecting her to tell me to put ice on it or something. She told be to go to the ER, by saying "It is the doctors opinion that you should go to the ER, and if you were a child or elderly person, it would be important to go to the ER, the doctors says you would need to go to the ER in that case". It was literally like that, weird double talk. So I went to the ER. The ER doctor had much better things to do, and I asked her why I had been sent there. She said "They are afraid of getting sue-" and cut her self off. That's when the nurses bizarre double talk made sense: She was saying for liability reasons to go to the ER, but implying in coded language that only children or elderly face serious levels of risk from bee stings, so I didn't really need to go.

But the irony is, due one doctors fear of getting sued, (in the first case, I was insured for the second) I got sued.

Which is probably a little like the situation you are in. Its SOOOOO messed up, I'm sorry you're in it. Its horrifying when you see the level of brokeness, the level of buffoonery in something as life or death as medicine. I mean, think of all the people who have died because of this kind of nonsense. And welcome (if you were not already one of us) to the people praying round the clock for some SERIOUS change in this country. And Good luck!

[Hugabear]

25. Sometimes I wonder if I should just go ahead and die if I think I'm having a heart attack

Seriously, shit like this makes me wonder if it would be better for me to just go ahead and let myself die if I think I'm having a heart attack. As you pointed out, going to the ER for chest pains can be very expensive, even if it's not a heart attack. If it IS a heart attack, then you could be looking at tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills. Who wants to put their family through that? Is it really fair to put your family in debt for the rest of their lives? Or is it better to just let nature take its course, and hopefully if you have a decent life insurance plan, your family can be taken care of?

It really pisses me off that these are the choices that many people have to make under GOP healthcare. Alan Grayson summed up their health care plan perfectly. Don't get sick. If you do, die quickly.

[MedicalAdmin]

205. My advice and what I will do is to make it short.

Have life insurance and then either let nature take it's course, or if your life insurance allows it, pull the trigger.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moral_Imagination]

34. Joe Wilson is that you? n/t

[Moral_Imagination]

57. No outrage from this post?

Just outrage for those of us that pointed out that the ER isn't free? Very very strange :wtf:

[Moral_Imagination]

33. So you thought the ER was free?

Im very confused.

[Skip Intro]

40. No, I didn't think it was free. I wasn't thinking about money at the time.

I thought I was having a heart attack and I went to the only place that would take an unemployed person with no insurance. I wasn't thinking about paying for it. I was thinking about living to see another day. If you were confused about what I was thinking, I'm wondering if that cleared it up for you.

Am I shocked that they are suing me? Yes, I fucking am. What do they think they are going to get from doing this? What kind of blood are they going to get from this turnip? The only thing a legal judgment against me will do is make it harder to get a good job. But the point, which I think you missed, was that health care in this nation should never, ever come to this.

[Moral_Imagination]

44. Cool

I guess this is why there are so many "Kill The Bill"ers. People don't understand that covering more people with Insurance will bring the prices down for everyone. Its so hard to explain that no one even tries. The hospital treated you and got NO money, how do you suppose they make up for that deficit?

[Capitalocracy]

47. The reason it's so expensive is because they're trying to suck us dry.

It's the business model, not the people who can't afford it. When more people enter the system, they'll raise the rates. No matter what happens, there will always be people who can't afford what they're asking. This problem can't be solved with a mandate.

I might believe the people who don't have insurance are the problem if the hospitals were struggling to stay open. But they're making money and plenty of it.

[eilen]

72. Hospitals rely on their ED's to bring them more

customers, their goal is to increase unique users via the ED rather than sign more Drs. up for privileges as hiring hospatilists is cheaper. Administration told me that was the plan. They heavily advertise their ED, they have installed a Chest Pain Observation unit, they admit everyone for 24 hours for observation that enters with chest pain, whether it is cardiac or not if there is any kind of preexisting condition such as high cholesterol or high blood pressure -- normally BP goes up when people are in pain.

[Skip Intro]

48. What do you suppose should happen to people with no money or insurance? Let them suffer and die?

[Moral_Imagination]

54. I think they should receive free Health Care

But thats not the system we have. Ignoring the bills clearly doesn't work though does it?

[SnakeEyes]

174. So who pays for that "free" health care?

[laylah]

82. I am so sorry to hear

about this, Skip Intro. Is the hospital for-profit or non-profit? My hospital here is non-profit, therefore, though I have insurance, because of my income, I am eligible for financial aid. I have had 3 balances in the last 4 yrs, written off. You might look into that. Good luck. :hug:

Jenn

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lob1]

124. With a $15 glass of orange juice, among other goodies.

[pipi_k]

87. What it is and what it should never come to...

are two different things.

The reality, right now, is that health care is not free. I wish it were different but it's not.

People are being held hostage to the health care system.


BUT...

above and beyond that...we all know that health care is not free.

So in order for the hospital to be suing you now, it had to have sent out many requests for payment that you didn't bother to acknowledge in any way.

A simple explanation of your situation might have gone a long way toward clearing this up. They might even have cleared you of any debt whatsoever. But now you find yourself up shits creek without a paddle and they'll likely be much less understanding now than they would have been a year ago.

Honestly, I'm sorry for the situation you found yourself in last year...it must have been terrifying.

But ignoring bills? I don't understand why it's so shocking that they're suing for payment...

[Hello_Kitty]

129. Go without work for a long while and you'll see how easy it is to ignore bills.

I don't even bother to open them and I know some of them are threatening to sue me. Let them. I've got nothing to take.

[PSzymeczek]

153. I wish I could rec comments.

I would certainly rec this.

[AtheistCrusader]

156. Your timeline isn't right.

He lost his job "months" ago. This incident was a year ago. No payment while working too?

A bad choice.

[pipi_k]

186. I already know how easy it is to ignore bills but that's not really the point

My main point (as well as that of a couple of others here) is that how can an adult actually believe that ignoring bills will lead to anything good and be all OMG!!! I can't believe they're SUING ME!!!

My WTF?? isn't about any other point than a reasonable adult being outraged because someone is taking measures to collect payment.

[Violet_Crumble]

176. What I find shocking is that in the US people are charged for getting treated in Emergency

Like another DUer I saw in this thread, I live in a country where we have a public healthcare system and I've never had to pay for any hospital visits, be it back when I was brought into Emergency because I'd had a stroke, or more recently a few months ago when I had a major operation. Maybe if Americans spent more time being shocked and outraged that they have a healthcare system that treats peoples health as a privilege not a right, instead of sounding like advocates of hospitals that do this, then just maybe you'd all have a healthcare system on a par with Europe, Australia, Canada etc...

To the OP: Get in touch with them quick and tell them that you'll pay it off a bit at a time. If they want it all at once and would prefer to take you to court, that'd prove what a bunch of greedy bastards they are. Hope it all works out for you...

[Mimosa]

179. ^ Recommend Violet_Crumble's post ^

This bears repeating:

"Maybe if Americans spent more time being shocked and outraged that they have a healthcare system that treats peoples health as a privilege not a right, instead of sounding like advocates of hospitals that do this, then just maybe you'd all have a healthcare system on a par with Europe, Australia, Canada etc..."

I'm angry that we were betrayed and a huge opportunity for real change and improvement was squandered. I know why they screwed us over. It was to keep the for profit system profitable. Yet people working in health care in other countries make their livings. But here in the USA people have made fortunes investing in hospital chains and health insurers. Profits were protected at the expense of people's health.

[pipi_k]

189. Yes, I find it shocking too, and rather disgusting...

because it shouldn't be that way.

But it is.

As for the OP contacting them now...I don't think that will go well. It may have a year ago before it got to this point, but who knows.

These people are usually a lot more willing to negotiate when they haven't been totally ignored for a year.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moral_Imagination]

53. Wow...

I said i was for single payer... You are not too clever if you don't think the hospital will try to collect money from you for an ER visit... Enjoy your stay also. No charge also since i know you never pay.

[Skip Intro]

56. : )

[Moral_Imagination]

58. ;) What is your opinion on post #29? n/t

[Skip Intro]

62. Hmmm. I need to consider it. What's your opinion?

[Moral_Imagination]

65. Well they finally got rid of it.

My opinion is that it was racist garbage.

[Skip Intro]

68. I see.

[eilen]

71. You know, it shouldn't cost thousands of dollars

to put someone on a heart monitor, perform an EKG and draw a few lab samples-- Which is the minimum you get when you go to the ED with chest pain and no prior cardiac history. For all the patients I see, I don't think it merits that much money. My uninsured brother ended up refusing a stress test at the ED because they would not tell him how much it cost. He didn't have the luxury of stacks of money to pay for whatever the hospital decided to charge him. And I've got to tell you he was having some 10/10 pain because nothing less would get him to go to any ED.

We do have a family hx of artery disease but he decided to take his chances. Later he went to a health clinic.

[jeanpalmer]

75. You can also try getting the bill reduced to a reasonable amount

I've seen a bill for the very same thing. Hospital billed $3250, Medicare approved $487 and paid $285. People without insurance get billed the top rate. Insurance companies negotiate to lower the charges dramatically, and Medicare pays a fraction. As a starting point, if you can't get out of it completely, see if they would accept what Medicare would pay.

[sendero]

80. Welcome to the....

.... "name your price" health care system. Hospitals, specialists, surgeons - they all simply name their price and it gets paid from your pocket via health insurance premiums, Medicare or whatever.

Health insurance is supposed to be the "cost containing gatekeeper", but they only put the squeeze on primary care physicians. Everyone else gets paid whatever because after all insurance is a cost-plus business. The more they pay the more profit they make.

There is no incentive anywhere in the system for cost control. When someone can "name their price" for a service that is not discretionary, that is exactly what they do.

[PatSeg]

116. I've had my fair share of hospital bills

the last five years. Some were from when I had insurance, some from when I was unemployed (county financial aid and Medicaid), and some from when I qualified for Medicare. For the most part, I did not received fully itemized bills, but I came across a couple from a few years ago that listed everything I was charged for. One bill totaled $45,000 and the other $30,000. These were from when I was unemployed and uninsured, so they ended up being paid primarily by the county and state.

One day not long ago, I browsed through the bills. They clearly charged over and over again for treatments and medication that I know I did not receive. So I figure the hospital knows that Medicaid and financial aid will not pay the full price, so they charge for phantom expenses. God only knows how much the hospitals rip off of Medicare.

I think all hospital visits should be followed by fully itemized bills and that patients should be required to confirm to insurance companies, Medicaid, and Medicare that those charges are legit. As it is now, the whole system is a disaster.

[AtheistCrusader]

157. I fought with the hospital even though I was fully covered.

Sure as @#$* there were charges for things I never received. Fully covered, but I did my due dilligence and ripped into them for some of the charges, and gave my insurance company information so they could fight. But even that costs the insurance company money.

Needless to say, this year, we are facing cost-cutting measures with our insurance. Most of my co-workers aren't frugal with their medical care. I won't say 'abuse it, lose it', abuse isn't the right word, but something like that. Something wasteful. Careless.

[PatSeg]

184. There is a vicious cycle here

Insurance companies don't want to pay for expensive medical procedures, so they bargain to bring the price down. The hospitals and doctors in anticipation of the negotiated prices, add charges to the bill. Then the insurance companies turn around and cut costs in other ways: denying claims, increasing premiums, dropping patients, etc.

Years ago anything medical was strictly regulated and primarily non-profit. Doctors, hospitals, and drug companies could not advertise and there was a very rigid code of ethics everyone had to abide by. Then greed took over and brought to where we are today.

I know what you mean about co-workers who are "wasteful" with their medical care. I guess there will always be people like that who figure its there so might as well use it even if it isn't necessary. Don't seem as much of that lately though. Even with good insurance, out of pocket expenses are too high for most people.

[sibelian]

92. It IS free where I live, Moral Imagination!!!! :D :D :D

Isn't that GREAT?!?! The ER room (which we call Casualty or Accident and Emergency Departments over here) is entrely free!!!

I live in the UK, and among the things I have to worry about health does not even feature. Why I could phone my GP's surgery and have a consultation within the week! For nothing! Not only that but if the problem turns out to be serious I can get a referral to a specialist - for nothing! If the treatment is complex, guess what I pay??? NOTHING!!!

:D :D :D :D :D

Mortgages? Worry. Job security? Worry. Food prices? Worry.

Healthcare??? NO WORRIES!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D

[Mimosa]

178. Sibelian, there is no 'free' health care.

Just because you pay nothing at point of service doesn't mean health treatments are in any way free. When you presnt it that way, it sounds 'fantastical'. ;)

It seems to me that you and every working person in the UK pays into the system in taxes so that every citizen is covered. Do your yerly tax returns show how much your contribution is for the NHS?

[defendandprotect]

166. Used to be ... when health care was a human right -- not an opportunity for profit!!

That was before the right wing turned the world upside down!

Food, health care, shelter, clothing -- are all human rights according to the

Human Manifest/United Nations --

And, according to common sense and morality!!

[Raine]

39. Don't ignore the notices, that's what makes

anyone you owe money to really mad. Call them or go in and talk to them about your problems, they will probably let you make payments. Whatever you do ... DO NOT IGNORE THEM.

[Skip Intro]

41. Wow, this thread has gone into areas I never expected. Thanks for the advice, friends. I'll contact

the hospital Monday. I'm sure I handled the whole thing pretty badly up to this point. I should have responded, I guess. It was just a shock to be served papers in my driveway that day. I mean, I got sick, I went for help. If I could have paid for it, I would have. I'll certainly think twice about seeking medical care again until I have insurance. Thank God I didn't call an ambulance.

[Matariki]

43. I don't know how it is in your state - so this might not apply

But where I live you can call 911 w/ a medical emergency (thinking you're having a heart attack is certainly that) and parametics will come out. They are trained to tell if it's an emergency. At least in my county there is no charge for that. Obviously not going to take care of your current situation, but it's good to know and you shouldn't not go to the doctor or hospital if you think you're having a heart attack.

[Gravel Democrat]

52. I'm surprised that the word "FREELOADER" hasn't turned up yet

that's the Yale Lawyers term for "you people". And the latest talking point.

*Note to Yale Lawyers: Feel free to use that term behind your keyboards but do be careful in public...

[Hello_Kitty]

125. On threads about the uninsured in general you see words like that thrown around quite a bit.

We have a lot of upstanding insured people here who are just convinced we uninsured hedonists are withholding our buckets of disposable income from the insurance industry while we wantonly and gleefully suck up free ER care for our coke binges and snowboarding accidents.

[Capitalocracy]

45. It's because of people like you that my insurance is so high!

Nothing to do with the executives making billions of dollars a year... no, it's all YOUR fault.

(And no, I don't really have insurance. My economic situation is really bad... but fortunately I'm stuck in a country with universal health care, so I'm not too worried about getting sick)

[Skip Intro]

49. Oh, you had me for a minute!

[Capitalocracy]

50. I just can't stand this meme

blaming poor people for the cost of health care when it's making a handful of people richer than God. They deliberately name a price that excludes people... and then we blame the cost on the people who are excluded? It's insane.

In civilized countries, they have universal access to health care. Even in developing countries. I live in Argentina and I have three choices - number one, if I were to get a job here, they all come with health insurance (legal requirement). Number two, I could go to a private hospital - a very nice one - and it would cost much, much less than it does in the U.S. Number three, there are public hospitals that attend everyone for free. Argentina's a disaster in a lot of ways... high crime rate, shantytowns, even a completely non-progressive tax system leftover from the days of the military dictatorship... but everyone has access to university and health care. It's not that difficult. The ONLY possible argument against it is that it's "Communist", and that argument means nothing in the real world, just in the ridiculous American political landscape.

What kind of work did you do/are you looking for?

[Skip Intro]

55. It is insane. Take me out of the equation. The whole paradigm is insane.

Poor people are to blame for the existence of poor people! Crazy.

Some nations see to their people, some nations do not. And for all the screaming and yelling from the right and the teabaggers, you'd think we had free beer. Oh yes, health care for our people, in the great United States of America? Are you kidding?

Actually what goes on here is class warfare. And it's not from the left, it's from the right. Divide and conquer. Convince enough people that the other people are the source of your problems and you ride a wave of political victory. It really is the great shame of our nation here. People suffer and die for the political glory of a few. Sad but true.

[eilen]

73. It is poor people blaming other poor people....

One woman who was living on SS, had Medicare was taking care of her daughter with MS-- SS Medicare/Disability and Medicaid was railing against "Obamacare" because there are a few who already abuse the Medicaid system (calling for ambulance, insisting on hospital in neighboring city-- to get ride to boyfriend who lives in such city). It happens. I think it is happening less now than before (using Medicaid cabs to for non-medical related transportation. Then there are the ED staff who are sick of seeing young women enter the ED c/o abdominal pain just because they want a pregnancy test (which they get along with an extensive work up and CT scans) when all they have to do is purchase a pregnancy test at a drugstore. I say-- why not just have a stock of those and hand them out? It would be cheaper in the long run... or cover the cost of a Planned Parenthood exam since what they may need is documentation that they are pregnant in order to get services and cant afford an Ob/GYN. Ob/GYN annual exam runs $500 out of pocket and try getting in there without insurance (even if paradoxically your insurance won't pay for it until the deductible is paid).

[Hello_Kitty]

89. The uninsured are the Welfare Queens of DU

And mandatory health insurance is to (some) Democrats what tort reform is to Republicans. A magic bullet that will miraculously reduce insurance premiums to nearly nothing.

[Capitalocracy]

109. Another reason it's so bad that our president enacts these policies

these Republican policies. Because now it's the party line, and a lot of people will twist their heads in circles looking for a justification for it, which changes the whole public dialogue... and all of a sudden, the left and the right are united in blaming the poor for the misdeeds of the rich. And those of us who disagree are the lunatic "professional left" fringe.

[Hello_Kitty]

110. Yep. eom

[defendandprotect]

167. +1000%

[The Doctor.]

61. Laugh.

It's what I do.

We live on the better side of nothing, no matter how barely we think. I'd love to go into the holes I've lived in and out of, but that would be indulgent.

No.

Know that you are not only not alone, but that you can decide at any time to be untouchable.

It's kept me alive.

Try it if you'd like.

[Skip Intro]

63. Thank you, Doctor.

Just the prescription I needed.

[The Doctor.]

66. Laugh with me then...

And stand on top of the bullshit. It seems to rain down forever, but it is never something we can't step on.

If I told you about my last three weeks of hell, and you told me yours, I doubt we would ever want to trade because I could never handle the horrible shit you've dealt with, and you could never handle mine. Thus, I believe we have an obligation to kick the living hell out of the shit, or otherwise rise above it.

You've been an inspiration to me on DU. You've always been a point of light and reason.

Tonight, I laugh at the bullshit. I'll be honored if you'd join me.

:toast:

[Skip Intro]

67. I hereby join you, man.

with a hearty laugh and a :toast:

you speak the truth, buddy

[NavyDem]

64. If you're living on UE...

You may actually be judgement proof. Meaning that you can be sued, but even if they win, they cannot take anything from you. I would check into a free legal service to find out if this is the case, and definitely do not miss the court date. You do not want to be in default judgement.

[NNN0LHI]

69. I have been through this when one of my kids got hurt with no insurance over 20 years ago

I was laid off at the time and we didn't have the money to pay for the ER visit either back then either.

I went into the billing dept. at the hospital and made arrangements to pay $5 dollars a month until I got back to work and was able to pay more. They said as long as we paid "something", every month they wouldn't (or couldn't?), turn it over to a collection agency.

That worked out for us.

Good luck.

Don

[madrchsod]

70. every hospital can write off bills under the charity program.

hospitals can write off bills on their taxes. you can also set up a payment plan. i stayed over night in the icu because i have a history with my heart.no insurance-25,000 i applied for charity and they wrote it off.

[aikoaiko]

74. Thank you for sharing. I think the lesson here is that we need to be careful about responding to...

...these types of bills.

Its true that if you are unemployed and no means to pay a bill you just can't do it. Blood from a stone and all that.

On the other hand, hospitals are also on the edge and they are getting very aggressive with collections. Not responding to their many notifications is not a good strategy. Trying to work with them is not a guarantee for relief either, but there is a higher chance of avoiding legal action.

[Phentex]

203. Yes. Ignoring will not make them go away...

it's always best to call and arrange something before it gets to this point. Like others have said, I'm not defending the hospital. I am ALL for health care for everyone but I also know we don't have that yet. There has to be a way to work something out.

[w8liftinglady]

77. wow!... i was in a similar position ... with insurance,nonetheless

but I haven't been taken to small claims court... yet.

my medical bills were 350K last year. i owe the hospital about 15K.
i receive a bill a week...they have cost themselves as much as I owe for some bills.
They received about 335 K.
they write me weekly.
Something is wrong with that picture.Very wrong.

[salin]

79. During the HCR debate - the most reactionary right voices declared the ER

system as "health care that is available to all." Blech!

You are right, it shouldn't be this way.

[Hello_Kitty]

97. I see people here on DU who think the uninsured get free care at the ER

Or that every uninsured person walks away from their bill, on account of we're such irresponsible scofflaws. I swear to god I've even seen, more than once on this very site, tut-tutting over how the uninsured are buying flat screen TVs, cell phones, and bling instead of health insurance. No dog whistling there. Nope, no sirree.

[salin]

149. IIRC, it was a big story a decade ago that hosipitals charged the uninsured much higher rates

compared to the bargained down rates established with the ins. companies.

Agreed that the current anti hcr arguments' reasoning often borders (or jumps full into) the absurd.

[bluestate10]

119. The right is foolish. Emergency room treatment is not free.

It is enormously expensive. And the hospitals that provide the service push to collect payment, either from insurance plans or the patient, or the patient's family.

[Enthusiast]

140. They are still making

the same claim.

[H2O Man]

81. I want you

to contact your local "legal aide" society. They should be able to assist you with this. Most hospitals have some programs for people who simply are in no position to pay. LA might be able to help you access these funds, or to resolve this in some other manner.

A little over a year ago, I went to an ER when I was experiencing some of the classic symptoms of a heart attack. Lots of tests, no heart attack. Then again. No answer. Lots more tests. One test alone cost $14,000.

Finally, I went to a different medical provider.It wasn't a heart issue; it was something else that required immediate surgery. My insurance covered the surgery, and the first two rounds of tests for my heart. But not the $14,000 test, which I apparently did not need. Of course, I didn't know I didn't need it: I felt like death, and had a specialist telling me the test was needed.

Still, my care was literally one thousand times better than that my sister has been subjected to in the past 9 months. While some of her care has been very high quality, most has been a fucking nightmare. It's been an un-ending series of errors and mistreatment. I've spent hours meeting with hospital administrators, being told that what is happening is unacceptable, and will be dealt with. I'm tired of being lied to.

Obviously, I could go on and on. But your OP ain't about me. Sorry to rant. This strikes a nerve.

[no_hypocrisy]

84. Call the law firm and work out a settlement.

You'll pay less and in monthly installments. The hospital is not going to write this off.

In collections practice, first the original creditor goes after you. Then they transfer the debt to a collections agency. Then the collections agency has a law firm bring a legal action for the sake of preserving the debt by filing a judgment.

Try to stop this before it does become a judgment.

[pipi_k]

85. OK, travesty of the health care system aside...

because we all know it sucks...

Adults know that people/companies/hospitals/etc. expect to be paid for their services.

Instead of hiding and hoping the bills would just go away, you might have contacted them and explained the situation.

If you hide and/or make no attempt at all, of course they're going to think you're a deadbeat. I mean, really...did you expect anything different? And it's not like they didn't send out any requests/demands and all of a sudden just decide to sue you, right?

First rule...never hide from debtors thinking the debt will go away. It won't.

[nessa]

91. Exactly, why didn't you just call them? (nt)

.

[lonestarnot]

86. Hospitals have full time staff of collections lawyers on their payrolls these days.

The new Nazi program.

[Gregorian]

88. This is why we created a government.

I never thought dental problems would amount to a life's savings. I just spent an absolutely HUGE amount of money on my mouth, because it was making me ill for years.

I had to spend 80 grand in order to get my mouth fixed.

The question is- WHY THE HELL DO WE CREATE GOVERNMENTS!? This is why.

[minavasht]

93. Been there, done that

On the other hand, they did send you invoices, that you promptly ignored.
There is no free lunch, somebody has to pay for it.
The hospital operates like any other business, they pay for the medication, equipment, pay salaries to all the staff that attended to you during your stay there.

Stuff happens, you got sick, or could have been in a crash.

I did not have the money to pay right away, so I called the hospital and got a payment plan set up - I believe it was $50 a month until I payed them all.

You at least should have tried to communicate with them.

[OnyxCollie]

95. Now, just think

if Joe/ Jane Sixpack knew they could go to the hospital, get examined, and wouldn't have to worry about the costs.

The anxiety from both their medical and financial concerns would be allayed.

A single-payer system would require a small tax from a large pool of people, and would be able to provide service to everyone, regardless of their financial situation.

Joe/Jane Sixpack, the moderates who make up the majority of the American public, don't know much about politics, and view political parties by how the parties treat groups of people, including the group to which the Sixpacks belong.

Imagine how they would feel if the above scenario occurred. They'd be grateful for what they'd received, and would vote accordingly.

It would have been a better election strategy than "Stop complaining. It could be worse."

[Mimosa]

180. ^ It would have been a better election strategy than "Stop complaining. It could be worse." ^

Heck yes! I am so tired of the refrain 'well, how would you have liked President McCain' or 'President Romney'. *rolling eyes*

If we'd gotten REAL health care reform the Dems would be in for decades. I suspect they didn't want that. They'd rather be rich. Think how many in Congress and the Senate are multi-millionaires or well on the road.

[treestar]

96. Call them and work something out

If you have no income to attach, they may as well live with it.

It's easy to get a judgment, but hard to collect on one. They have to try to levy on your assets. States have controls on how much income can be attached and which. If you have no income, obviously that's out.

[badtoworse]

98. It sounds like you just ignored the problem and expected it to go away.

It rarely works that way. You DO owe them the money and as many have already pointed out, you should call them and try to work out a payment plan.

[lumberjack_jeff]

99. It never pays to ignore a bill.

Call the office, beg for a break. Send $10 a month.

I've done both. I went to the hospital for an x-ray. The bill was about $500. I called the business office, asked for financial assistance. They asked for income information and reduced the bill (via their "community care" fund) to something like $50.

Once it goes to collections it's too late, of course. Your story should best be seen as a cautionary tale.

Am I sympathetic? Of course. But the reason that this doesn't happen to everyone is because most people handle their bills differently.

[bvar22]

100. In civilized countries, the term "Medical Bankruptcy" is unknown.

Even after all the provisions of the "historic" Health Insurance Reform kick in,
Medical Bankruptcy will STILL be Big Business in the USA.


To fully appreciate the scale of the HCR scam,
simply compare it to what is taken for granted in civilized countries.

"Historic" is the correct term.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[defendandprotect]

168. In "civilized societies" elected officials work for the GENERAL WELFARE....

that's not happening in America --

are we really expecting millionaires and multi-millionaires in Congress to

act for the general good vs their own profit?

[Curmudgeoness]

103. This happens all the time anymore. I work in payroll and

see garnishments on wages all the time for court lawsuits from medical establishments. Don't stress it. The collection of the judgment is the hardest part for the winner of a lawsuit. You don't have to file bankruptcy over this one bill, even if they win the judgment. When you do find work, they will garnish some of your wages until it is paid. If you don't have the money, they really can't get paid. You will sooner or later have to face this, but hopefully you will be in a better place to do it.

I have seen judgments from hospitals in the tens of thousands of dollars. This is not catastophic, although it is just plain wrong.

[Vinca]

108. Just for the heck of it, why don't you try calling them on Monday

to see if you qualify for anything that might lower the bill? I know it sucks - I just got hit with an ER bill in the $3,000 range and it wasn't covered by anything - but sometimes you have to really give up any bit of self respect you still have and grovel. Cry if you can. Anything. Isn't this a wonderful country?:sarcasm:

[Lorien]

111. Yeah, I went to the ER years ago for the same thing (Ithink it was the same thing

they never told me what was wrong). I can sympathize. I was there for about 45 minutes, and less than 10 of those were spent with a doctor or nurse. I was charged about $10,000. I had insurance, which refused payment of any kind. I negotiated with the hospital and they dropped the bill to $8,500.00 Either way, it's a hell of a lot of money to get my pulse taken and spend just a few minutes hooked up to an EKG.

[Joanne98]

113. Tell them to go get it from the Tea Party!

[BobbyBoring]

115. I'm sure this varies from state to state

But in many areas, if you send them $10.00 a month, there's nothing they can do. Good luck on this!

[bluestate10]

118. You could have made arrangements to pay the bill off.

When my father passed away, my mom was presented with an enormous bill for my father's emergency treatment. The bill would have destroyed her financially. I was just finished with college and had bills of my own, with little extra money. But I took that bill from my mother, called the hospital and after several sessions of wrangling with it's accounts payable office, got them to agree to a payment plan that I could afford. After the agreement, every month the hospital sent me the updated bill and I would pay the amount that I agreed to pay. It took me four years to pay the bill, but I paid every cent. So, I speak from experience, you could have arranged to pay off the bill, even in the more dire circumstances for you, I had nothing and I did just that.

[bluestate10]

120. The hospital is not going away. You need to get ahead of the problem.

Work out a payment plan with the hospital and pay what you can afford to pay each month.

[AtLiberty]

121. Skip Intro

I have also gone to the hospital for several panic attacks. I know what you mean. They feel like the *real* thing.

However, my hospital bill was only $200 - $300. No fancy tests. They determined immediately that it wasn't a heart attack.

So I would use as your defense that they ran needless tests to drive up the bill and *knew* you had no way to pay it. They should have just given you a Valium and sent you home.

Consider a counter suit, pro se, for the needless tests and for contributing to your anxiety problem with this needless lawsuit. Before you go through the trouble, write a strong letter stating your intentions on how to defend yourself. ALSO, tell them that you will demand a jury trial and that chances are high that people are able to serve jury duty because they're unemployed and have no health insurance.

[AtLiberty]

122. P.S. Skip Intro

Be sure and tell them that you will be contacting the media regarding this lawsuit.

[DesertDiamond]

123. A few years ago I was forced to go to ER because the receptionist at the county clinic

wouldn't give me an appointment. She insisted I go to the ER. I had been coughing ever since I moved to this new locale, and I knew it wasn't an emergency, and I spent ten minutes explaining that this was NOT an emergency. My concern was that I did not want to clog up the emergency room with this non-emergency. Having no personal experience with the current version of the ER, I had no idea that I should also be concerned for myself. Finally, I gave in and went to the ER. They took an x-ray and my blood pressure and looked at my tongue, which would have cost $50 total at the county clinic. They diagnosed me with bronchospasm which means -- wait for it -- cough!! Wow! Thanks for the info. All they offered me was in inhaler which I refused because my body can't handle toxins.

When I got the bill for $800 I almost fell over! At that time, $800 was sometimes my whole income for the month. They offered some charity thing which, on reading it, set the poverty limit so low that to live on it I would have had to live with my parents or on the streets. They then reduced the bill to $400, which was still eight times what the clinic would have cost and was still nearly undoable. So every month for the next few months I scraped together $5-10 that I could not afford and sent it to them. So then I got a letter from them saying that since I was paying so little per month they were going to start adding a $5 per month interest! So. After paying them a total of $50, figuring I had already paid them what it would have cost me to go to the clinic, I gave up. I was tired of having to go without other essentials to pay a bill that not only should never have existed, but was furthermore growing as fast as I was paying it off. So they sent me to collections and it sat there until I got a better paying job and was able to pay it.

BTW, if what I had gotten was real health care they would have figured out what I eventually figured out on my own - I was suffering from allergies from being in a new environment.

There is no excuse whatsoever for health care being unaffordable in this country. No excuse whatsoever.

[leftyladyfrommo]

126. You were lucky it was only $3,000

A friend of mine went to the emergency room - with chest pains. He went in the afternoon, they ran tests, and he went home the next day. His was anxiety, too.

$13,000.00

Being in the hospital costs about $1,000 an hour now.

That is the really insane thing.

If you don't have insurance your choices are pretty limited. You can try to deal with the cost as best you can. Or you can just die.

Great choices.

[Swede]

127. This is why socialised medicine is important.

The US should,as a rich nation have it.

[azureblue]

131. a few suggestions

Call the hospital - every day, until the work out a reduce or eliminated bill. Fax them your bank statements and income proof (if any). Ask if it is OK for you to record all conversations. if they say no, then say your are hard of hearing, and you want transcriptions of the conversations. Anything you mail to them, make them sign for it, and get the signature. Call them and ask them if they got it, too.

Try your best to keep it from going to court, and to get the bill reduced. Plead with the hospital to not take it to court- act scared. (try to record this) See what they do then. Usually, they will work something out with you. But, if they stonewall, then you shift gears and tell them that you will be contesting the charges in court, and, from here on out, all correspondence with the hospital must be in writing, with a valid signature and contact information on the letter.

Then, from another angle, ask for a copy of an itemized bill, broken down, pill by pill. They may say they don't have it, but they do. Ask them why the prices are so high for the meds (if any) and ask to see what the hospital charges insurance companies for the same treatment. The idea is to come up with proof that the hospital is overcharging you - they always charge insurance companies less, and they try to get the un insured to pay more, to make up the difference. I would suggest trying to get an itemized bill asap, before you go to court, so you can contest the total amount of the bill. Tell the hospital that no court will accept a generalized bill for something so complicated as ER treatment, and, as a defendant, it is your right to see the complete billing.

If you go to court, if the hospital will not reduce your bill, then, when you get to court, ask for a continuance, because you want to contest the bill on the grounds that you suspect are being overcharged (padded bill), and you need time to collect more information from the hospital and do some comparative research. Tell the judge that the hospital has been slow in responding to your requests. If you have proof, or denial for information from the hospital, or any response to that affect, show it to the judge. Get the judge to set another court date. Then, when that date approaches "get sick", got a Dr. appointment, your boss will fire you if you take time off work so soon, and ask for a continuance. Thia is how lawyers wear down defendants, and you can do it too. Just be nice about it, to the judge and the court clerks.

The idea is to show the hospital that you are willing to pay your fair share, on an equitable basis (as compared to an insurance company), and you are not a push over. And you will eat up their time in court. After at least one continuance, they will be more workable- they do not want to waste their time.

[Sonoman]

132. Here is how I handled it.

Long story short, my dog walker was being sued for thousands of dollars by Marin General Hospital.

I called the hospital's accounting office and asked what minimum monthly payment would clear her.

They told me it would have to be at least $50/mo.

They wanted $6,000.

I told them I would send them a monthly check for $50 for the next ten years and they could try to find some profit in there.

They forgave the debt the next day.

Good luck with your struggle.

Sonoman

[Mnemosyne]

133. I'm next, almost $10,000 for an infection last Sept. I am sorry you have to

deal with such greed. It shouldn't be this way. :hug:

[Enthusiast]

135. K&R

We need a single payer system on par with that of other modern nations. We should not be ruled by corporate interests. Just stating the obvious again.

[femrap]

141. We are ruled

by brutal, hateful people/corporations.

[Cleita]

142. I don't think they can force you to pay it. This is just

harassment on their part just to see if they can shake it out of you. Go to the court hearing and tell your side of the story to the judge and hope he/she is sympathetic and do file for bankruptcy before then.

[ColesCountyDem]

144. Any hospital receiving Hill-Burton funds is REQUIRED to help the poor ...

... in some manner. Most do so by reducing the cost of their care on a sliding-fee scale, using the federal poverty-level as a basis. For example, in order to discharge their Hill-Burton obligation, my local hospital waves 100% of all charges for people/families making less than twice the poverty level.

Contact them, and ask. It may not be too late.

Good luck! :hi:

[kestrel91316]

145. You can't bankrupt out of medical bills anymore, I don't think.

Prepare to live out of your car. With this lawsuit, no landlord will rent to you.

I just LOVE America.
:sarcasm:

[blackspade]

146. Sorry man, that sucks.

I could go into a long rant about the shitty 'health care' in this counrty but what would be the point here at DU? We already know the deal....

[hunter]

147. Medical bills I couldn't pay destroyed my credit rating...

... and taught me not to worry about money.

I'm much happier now than I used to be.

[RandomThoughts]

148. I have never worried about money.

And I am still due beer and travel money, and many experiences.

[PSzymeczek]

151. Workmen's Comp is trying to

get out of paying for an on-the-job accident my husband sustained last month. They'te saying the sidewalk caused the injury. He would not have been on that sidewalk if he were not working at that location.

[grahamhgreen]

154. That's why the argument about so-called freeloaders was bogus - they always send a bill!

Sorry about your situation - we still need to fight for Medicare for all.

[Dot Com]

155. What I don't understand is why

Boehner & McConnell don't renounce their socialized, taxpayer-funded, medical coverage???

[wisteria]

158. You should have contacted them with your circumstances.

By just assuming they would be written off and ignoring them you look like a deadbeat.

[Honeycombe8]

161. You're not being sued because you're unemployed. You're being sued...

because you hired some people to perform services, and then you didn't pay them. When you find a new job (and I hope it's soon), what if you worked there a day, and then your new employer didn't pay you for the services you performed? You wouldn't be happy about that.

Your unemployment is WHY you didn't pay. And I understand your not responding to the notices (I'm the same way). But really, for all they know, you just stiffed them on the bill for no reason. So at least you should've tried to explain your situation and offered proof, if necessary, so they'd know you weren't just being a deadbeat. It may not have made a difference. But it would've been worth a try.

Usually hospitals won't admit anyone without insurance, unless they get a sizeable deposit up front. They didn't ask you for $1,000 or something?

[defendandprotect]

169. Quite a confused response ... first, both medical care and a job should be human right !!

It is only with the rise of the right wing that we see this "up" is "down"

propaganda impacting the judgment -- our morals and our common sense!!

[theFrankFactor]

162. Where did these "democrats" come from?

I can't believe the shit some "democtats" post on this site. A person presents with an apparent heart attack and has to pay a deposit!?

[akbacchus_BC]

165. Where have you been? Lot of Dems in the house and senate

vote with rethugs! The Dems who vote with rethugs need to go!

[akbacchus_BC]

163. Sorry to hear about your predicament with the hospital. Perhaps you

can arrange a payment on a monthly basis rather than getting sued and your credit getting messed up. What America needs is a single payer system but that is not going to happen soon. There was an opportunity for that to happen but it was squandered, the corporations still rule! Hope you are able to resolve a payment system! Good luck.

Some of the responses to you were inhuman.

[RandomThoughts]

177. The corporations do not rule me.

And many comments to me were not by humans, but at least someone sees that.

Doesn't mean I have to be mean. As far as opportunity, here is how much of that works.

You get given a presentation that something will happen better, like it is just around the corner, you can see it close.

Then comes the 'just do this' when there is not going to be strings or deals. I am due beer and travel money.

So all that 'it was close' crap is bullshit. The beer and travel money is due to me. And I was posting that before I realized it is also a metaphor, but the point is not about getting closer or further.

It is about it being due, someone can mail it to me anytime. Don't need to think closer or further, it is still due either way, and that is to try and bait you into some compromise that has not been explained.


I post songs and movie clips, they are interesting, many tell some great stories, some are more bad, some more good. But still can find the good in almost any of them, so even that is not against me.

And I am still due beer and travel money.


Tom Petty - 'Refugee'
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1w4kr_tom-petty-refugee_music

[du_da]

181. Keep in mind that there is a difference

between suing you and taking your stuff. They have to get a judgment against you before they can go to the next step that is why they are doing that. They could still write it off, but having the court decision gives them options. It is odd that it didn't go to collections first and it is likely already hit your credit. Although it might be that in some states medical debt can't go to collections.

So don't loose faith. You do after all owe the debt, it doesn't sound like you deny that fact so you can't blame them for coming for it. What you want to do now is try to scrape up about half of what you owe and go to them with hat in hand and explain your situation. They might write it off completely or at least will negotiate a settlement.

Part of the problem it sounds like is that you are not communicating with them, at this point they have no idea if your in a bad way or a deadbeat. As for the lawsuit, that is simply a step in the legal process they feel it is necessary to take because if they do decide to go after your property, which is an understandable option for them at this point, then they would have to get the judgment first to start any additional legal procedures. So don't loose any sleep over that just keep working to get that job and get some money to pay your bill. Plus make sure you talk to the hospital administrator and explain your situation. Hay, maybe you will find out they have a job opening.

[Lucian]

182. It really bugs me that so-called Dems on this board are attacking you.

[pipi_k]

190. I don't think anybody is "attacking" the OP

People are just a little shocked that someone could not know what the ultimate consequences would be from ignoring bills.


And you know, we're not even talking about tens of thousands of dollars here.


Three thousand dollars maybe paid ten bucks a month would take a long time, but at least it would show good faith effort.


There are people out there who ARE saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills who take out second mortgages on their homes...sell most of their possessions...go into bankruptcy...

paying off their medical bills.

Maybe they were unemployed too...or maybe their insurance didn't cover certain treatments. But I'll bet they didn't just toss the damned bills in the trash hoping they'd go away.

[Lucian]

192. They were ignored because the OP couldn't pay them.

I'm pretty sure if the OP could pay his/her bills, he/she would've paid them.

All of us have ignored a bill or two in our lives. But we don't expect to be sued because of it.

And some of us can't even afford $10/mo. I'm getting scheduled eight hours a week at work. $10 is a lot of money to me.

[AngryAmish]

187. You gotta realize Maseratis don't buy themselves

[pipi_k]

191. Maseratis...ha ha

I have one stepdaughter who is an RN.

The other one is a doctor.

Neither one of them owns a Maserati.


they just like being paid for their work so they can do silly things like pay their own bills and buy groceries, etc.


Until Universal Healthcare becomes a reality, they depend on people to pay their employers so they themselves can be paid.

[WillieW]

188. They are getting their money for sure

making your life miserable. I feel like suing the hospital that lost my records, claiming that the CD that contained my information was stolen. The CD contained surgery records and my personal information. Wonder if I have a case? It appears that this particular hospital is pretty lax with the patient's records. Two years ago,the same hospital send me a surgery report from a patient that had a mastectomy.


Have you considered declaring personal bankruptcy?

[dkf]

197. We need single payer.

It serves the needs of the people and it just makes sense financially.

Let the people who want to pay for fast non critical care do that. But for the rest if us we need a system that works and is affordable. The system we have now is the real train wreck about to happen.

[Fleshdancer]

198. I'm so sorry you're going through this

I have a friend who experienced severe anxiety attacks and he thought he was having a heart attack too. People don't realize how physically painful they can be. You would have been crazy NOT to go to the emergency room when it happened.

I wish I had amazing advice on how to deal with your legal problems now. All I can say is that I really hope everything works out and that you won't have to file bankruptcy because you couldn't afford medical treatment.

The bitter irony of your situation is that this can't be helping your anxiety issues. For that, I recommend Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (google it for more info) and the book Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380731762/o/qid=934233179/sr=8-1/002-9694366-0209668/feelinggoodcom

Good luck to you Skip Intro.

[marions ghost]

200. Anxiety...

a growing problem in this country. You are not alone Skip Intro.

Keep talking. Keep talking.

:thumbsup:

[walldude]

202. Been there... My wife had chest pains, took her to Emergency

no insurance. 4 hours and a few tests later she was released... The total bill: $10,000. For 4 hours in the emergency room.

We are paying the bill off. Do you know that on medical bills they have to take what you give them? Before they get you into court make a payment arrangement, even if it's a dollar a week they have to take it.

Once they get a judgement against you then they can come after you but if you are paying however little they have to leave you alone.