GOP Lie of the Day: "Teachers' Pay Averages $100,000"...

[YvonneCa]

...is flat-out untrue. I heard this 'talking point' on both Fox and MSNBC from Pat Buchanan this morning.

Edited...after coffee:7...to add my rant:

I have so many frustrations when I hear this talking point...mostly from my own experience as a teacher who has other relatives who are teachers (none of whom make $100,000/yr BTW). The first is about that whole debate we are having in Education Reform about evaluating teachers based on data. If the data they will use (and are using in some cases) is as flawed as the 'data' that they used to come up with this talking point...the data is a MESS.

The second frustration is that I have a family member who started teaching...in a Title I school...making $7,600 a YEAR in 1973. When he retired (after 33 years), he made +- $84,000 a year. I'll admit that the rising cost of health benefits may have put his total 'cost' for the state up to $100,000. (But that just reinforces our Democratic Party's position that we need to lower health care costs.)

Another example of that is my own salary level. I started teaching in 1983, and made $21,500 a year to start. That increased to $73,000 by the time I left in 2008. I wanted to and did continue my education during that time...which (with service and experience over time) increased my salary. I know other teachers who did the same (at their own expense, BTW) and took on other duties in the district which may have increased their salary level in recent years to close to the $100,000 number...but they are the exception, not the average. I am sure other teachers who read DU and elsewhere have similar stories.

Finally, the expectation that teachers continue their education is really important. Not only are those of us who did so...at our own expense...being slammed for it, and the higher salary and learning we gained from it...we are being told on TV that we are rich (Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha.....that is SO funny. :7) and that we need to be taken out. Our salaries, sometimes higher than those in high-poverty neighborhoods in which we serve...are compared and belittled. But we have college degrees...aren't they supposed to mean something? We all want our kids to believe so. Yet, we are being told that we did something wrong and that we are now the PROBLEM.

You know, I'm in California and I GET the money part of this debate. I understand that California cannot afford us anymore. California and other states that legitimately DO have a budget crisis have to make monetary cuts. Many have already been made here...more are coming. Wisconsin, too, may have budget issues to address...and I hope they will.

But when did teachers become the enemy? The new teachers or the veteran teachers? WE'VE been the ones trying to work together and stop bullying, create a positive climate for kids in poverty, and teach the next generation FOR YEARS. When did we become the target? I'll tell you my answer to that. We experienced teachers became the enemy when the system started being restructured to save money. Expensive teachers are now encouraged to leave (quit, retire, die...we don't care) and new cheaper teachers are being encouraged to apply (but we'll make up data to evaluate you, work you to death, deny you benefits, and give you merit pay if you not only survive...but we like you!)

Is this the system we want? Really? I have children. I used to always encourage them...and student teachers I mentored...how GREAT teaching was. And it WAS.

I can't say that anymore. I think that saddens me more than anything else.

[lisa58]

1. I'm sure my son-in-law would love to know that...

...since he's already taken a pay cut in the Great State of NJ!

[YvonneCa]

34. Send him this video link...

...to the Wisconsin rally. It's wonderful and uplifting!

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/80x67G/www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/02/student-captures-spirit-of-wisconsin-pro-union-rallies-in-music-video/

[LibDemAlways]

2. Utter and complete bullshit. Anyone who believes that

is a moron.

[KathieG]

3. Yep, and so far I haven't heard anyone call them on it.

[liberal N proud]

14. You can't expect the fucking media to do it

They get their orders from the corporations who are backed fully by the GOP.

[KathieG]

24. True. It would be nice to hear a guest commentator from the left refute the claim though.

[Auntie Bush]

81. We need Keith Olbermann

Where are you Keith? When can you start talking?

[YvonneCa]

88. We do. He tweets, regularly, as...

...he is getting ready for his new show on Current TV in May. I, for I, can't wait. :)

[southerncrone]

4. WHERE? I'll fill out an application today!

[GoCubsGo]

48. Me, too!

[MorningGlow]

5. WTF!

I taught high school for a year, nearly 20 years ago, and I made $16K. Have salaries appreciated that much in two decades? Doubtful. Are they doing the bullshit thing of adding in pension equivalencies and crap like that? :eyes:

[rucky]

6. You took the letters right out of my keyboard.

[YvonneCa]

26. Sorry about that, rucky...

...:7 I didn't mean to keep you from ranting along with me. ;) Glad I'm not the only one. :grouphug:

[mascarax]

7. What show did Pat Buchanan lie this on?

Will write another email to MSNBC. It helps to tie it to a specific show though.

Wrote to complain about the union lies on Morning Joe yesterday.

Thanks, YvonneCa.

[YvonneCa]

17. What is her name...Alex Witt's

...Saturday morning show? I think that's it.

[malaise]

21. aka Alex the

Twit :evilgrin:

[blondeatlast]

8. FFS. Reality means nothing to the GOP, however. nt

[wavesofeuphoria]

9. If I work 15 more years ...

in my school system ... I won't even make 75% of that figure ... and I've maxed out in all additional pay for degrees and courses.

[gizmo1979]

10. Wages

They print the teachers wages every year in the local newspaper,they don't make anywhere near that.Although if they hold a PHD then they should make over 100G's.

[YvonneCa]

65. I agree. n/t

[City Lights]

11. I smell Frank Luntz.

:puke:

[blondeatlast]

12. Yeah, he has a unique and pervasive essence and has been a busy little

slug lately.

[underpants]

13. HOW

How do they get their pay to the level it has gotten to? (not that it is really $100K)

How?

collective bargaining

[YvonneCa]

28. Yes. And collective bargaining is the critical issue in...

...Wisconsin. But, sadly, the GOP wants it gone everywhere.

[underpants]

All the news reports jump right over the core issue

and go right to exaggerated numbers about how much public employees make and , of course, if they BELIEVE it is right or wrong

[YvonneCa]

36. It's all about spin for them. Never mind that it hurts....

...real people.

[sofa king]

15. I wonder if they care to bet on that with their own salaries?

Why don't we start inviting GOP Congressmen to back that up by picking ten teachers at random from their state, averaging their pay, and then covering any salary shortfall below $100,000 with direct payments to the teachers from their own pay.

I'm pretty sure that would cost every Virginia Congressman who participated around $50,000.

[ThomCat]

23. Any of of these Assholes who insist that teachers

make too much should be asked to take that bet. Because usually they are rich assholes who could afford to make the bet.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. Nationwide, the median salary for teachers is about $41,000.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary

[pinboy3niner]

19. In WI, the average teacher salary is $46,390 (they start at $25,222)

http://teacherportal.com/salary/Wisconsin-teacher-salary

[YvonneCa]

30. Sounds pretty average...

...to me. But to hear the spin, one would wonder. :7 Thanks for the link.

[YvonneCa]

29. Thank you for the link. n/t

[Recursion]

38. And that means a burden rate of around $100k

It costs a lot more than salary to employee people; the GOP is just using the highest of many ways of measuring the cost.

[YvonneCa]

45. SPIN. Lying spin. n/t

[Recursion]

49. Of course it is. We're talking about Republicans here

It's not exactly a surprise...

[YvonneCa]

51. Never said I was surprised. But I DO...

...believe in fighting back with the truth, don't you?

[LooseWilly]

71. Wait... I'd like to see the employer numbers to make that burden rate.

I mean... I doubt I'll ever do anything that involves employees... so I'm curious to see these numbers.

How does a $41K salary = $100K burden for employer? Enlighten me, please...

[Recursion]

74. A sample breakdown

Say somebody has $43K in salary. The full burden rate includes health insurance, pension contributions, payroll taxes (well, probably not in school systems, but still), workplace insurance/workers' comp, unemployment contributions, administrative overhead (if you have 20 teachers, they each "get" 1/20th of the HR person you hire for them), facilities (they'll need an office, a desk, 1/20th of the lounge, a computer, they use electricity -- these can be startlingly high in some situations). I think Labor or IRS publishes a full list of what's counted somewhere.

[LooseWilly]

87. I was hoping you'd provide actual numbers... not just a list of things that are number-able

I have no health insurance, so I have no idea how much that costs (I've given up watching the numbers climb) — but I wouldn't think that could be more than 12-15K/year.

Pension contributions? I also have no pension, but I was under the impression that pensions these days consisted of 401K contributions from the employees own wages... so I'm doubting that anyone making the example $43K is going to contribute anywhere near the $16.5K 401K limit... so even if employers were matching dollar for dollar, which I doubt, that's not liable to be more than $5k.

Payroll takes? I've never had employees... but, aside from bureaucratic costs of paying withholding unto the government(s), this is only the Social Security of 6.2% and the Medicare 1.45% (the employer match, which a self-employed person pays for him/herself)— which comes to $3290 for our $43K worker.

Worker's Comp? Well, in CA State Disability Insurance (or the alternative VPDI) runs at a staggering 1.2%—$516 for our $43k individual.

Unemployment insurance? CA EDD seems to indicate that it's about 3.4% of the first $7k of wages— which is $238 (max $434).

Administrative overhead? For a teacher?... taking economies of scale into account, we're talking what? $1K? $3K? How is that even relevant in the calculations of cost per teacher? This is like trying to add the costs of the middle management onto the numbers of the workers salaries so that the "bosses" don't have to admit that these are costs that they choose to take on in order to micromanage employees that might otherwise be left to manage their work according to the priorities they see up-close.

Facilities?... again, economies of scale, as well as the fact that this isn't so much a matter of a cost of the employees as the cost of housing the "customers", i.e. the students... which is the whole point of the "exercise". The idea that this is a set of expenses that can be cut from the picture so teachers won't cost so much is absurd... let's just have the teachers teach in a vacant lot, so that the teachers won't be so expensive to hire?... sorry, I'm disallowing this one.

So what do we have? Highballing it: $15K (health insurance) + $5k (pension contributions ?) + $3290 (SS & Medicare) + $516 (SDI) + $434 (Unemployment max) + 3K (pretending the secretaries in the office are there to support the roles of the teachers, rather than the paperwork required to bill the state per-pupil) = $70,240.

This is no where close to $100K.

What am I missing?

[spartan61]

18. OMG, what a lie!!!

When I first started teaching, I earned the "high salary" (taxpayers always think teachers earn too much) of $5300. When I retired 32 years later, my top salary was $50,000. This is with a Masters that is required in CT. We paid 7% into our pension plan and I'm not sure what percentage into our health plan. Teachers in CT cannot pay into SS and if you did from other employment, you will take a 60% reduction in your SS as an offset. (My husband paid 24 years into SS then went into education and his SS was reduced). Because I don't get a SS check, my Medicare is $115.50 per month. If we had not had the NEA or the CEA (and our local union), I shudder to think what I would have earned during my teaching career. No one goes into teaching to make big bucks. It can be the best job in the world or the most thankless.

[YvonneCa]

31. Thank you for sharing your story. It is good...

...to hear other educators validate truth. :grouphug:

[malaise]

20. You would expect M$Greedia to expose that ReTHUG talking point

-one more fugging lie.
Salary scales are available.

[tallahasseedem]

22. Where in the hell do they get these figures?

I would LOVE for my kids' teachers to make this amount. They earn every dime!

[YvonneCa]

33. Beats me. Made up from...

...whole cloth, as they say. :hi:

[Recursion]

37. Burden rates

A median salary of $43K means a median burden rate (ie, what it actually costs to employ them) of around $100K.

[YvonneCa]

41. And the largest factor is what? Health care...

...costs and defined benefit pension plans (to which many teachers contribute)? And the impact of the financial crisis on those costs was... ?

Was any of this the fault of teachers? No, but they are being targetted anyway. They make easy targets...they're so civil and all that...

[Recursion]

44. Well, health care is a huge part

There's also facilities, pensions (for those who have them), just basic admin overhead, etc.

I know in some very dense, under-infrastructured urban districts like DC the facilities costs can be shockingly high (approaching health care).

[YvonneCa]

46. The point is...

...they omit that information. They lie by omission...and then they used that as a weapon to attack vulnerable people who did nothing wrong. Not only nothing wrong...in most cases, nearly everything right. They worked toward President Obama's education vision, if not his actual goals and policy.

Will anyone on the Democratic side of this debate make THAT case?

[sandyd921]

68. What? The facilities?

What's that got to do with salary or even benefits? Sounds like just a bit of a s t r e t c h .

[LWolf]

25. Where do I transfer to, to double my salary after 28 years? nt

[mainstreetonce]

27. Just wanted to play.........Can you top this?

I started in elementary ed in 1966 at $4,800 and ended in 1999 at $58,000.

God bless the unions.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Recursion]

35. The national median burden rate is something north of $100K

I'll dig that up from DoL if you haven't seen it. (And like all public employees their salaries are lower but burden rates higher than most private sector employees, which is exactly the thing the right is exploiting right now.) I think the national median salary is in the neighborhood of $43K.

[YvonneCa]

39. Wouldn't it be lovely if...

...the GOP spinners actually told the truth about that? Instead, they lie and say it's 'salaries'. Thanks for the info.

[Recursion]

40. It would be wonderful if monkeys flew out of my butt...

...but I gave up on expecting honesty from Republicans a long time ago (there are honest conservatives, but they have pretty much been drummed out of the party).

They are accurate more or less about the median cost to the public of employing teachers. It's false of them to call that a "salary". And as many on this thread have pointed out, a more robust health care reform package that did more to control costs would have greatly reduced this burden rate.

[YvonneCa]

43. If monkeys do that, I would expect you'll...

...post a picture, either here or on Twitter. ;)

[stillwaiting]

75. They might be costs in providing an EDUCATION, but they certainly are not teacher related costs.

Unless someone is being EXTREMELY disingenuous.

Administrative costs and facility costs are certainly costs incurred in providing educations to our citizens, but they most certainly should NEVER be allocated to the cost of employing a teacher.

Teachers are simply one component (a VERY important component) of providing an education. They should not absorb ALL cost centers.

That is a lie.

[Recursion]

76. That's how burden rates are calculated everywhere

They should not absorb ALL cost centers.

And they do not. A burdened rate is the marginal cost of employing one person. It does not include capital expenses or operating expenses that are not increased by hiring another person.

[Ikonoklast]

52. That's not PAY.

But, keep trying.

[Recursion]

55. "keep trying" what?

The question was asked where that number came from and I pointed out that's the median cost of employing teachers.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

42. Are they including benefits/retirement in that figure? Do they include Administators or professors?

[YvonneCa]

47. Great questions. I'd guess that the folks on Fox and...

...both Witt and Buchanan have no idea. :) They just 'parrot' the talking points. Over, and over, and over...

[Starry Messenger]

50. Oh hahahahaha!!

*cough* *cough* Sadly, there are probably a lot of people here who buy that cr@p too. I've noticed that more and more people seem to think paying taxes is like buying something specific that they want, they are consumers instead of citizens. They think that if they don't like the service being provided that they can exchange it to something they are willing to pay for. In the case of teacher hate, it's been a flat out propaganda campaign from day one. The ownership class doesn't like the fact that money goes into this public service that doesn't provide something they can profit off of. "Teachers don't make or produce anything" so therefore are useless eaters in the marketplace.

This whole hate campaign reminds me of the anti-artist propaganda of the 80's & 90's that was also waged in the press.

[senseandsensibility]

53. Yvonne, I think it's important that you stress to non

Californians that you taught in California. The cost of living here is astronomical. Housing is very high cost, even after the recession. Teacher pay is lower in most parts of the country; it can be as much as fifty percent lower. But then the cost of housing is, too. I just would not want DUers to get the idea that all teachers, even experienced ones, make seventy plus thousand a year.

[YvonneCa]

56. You are absolutely correct on all....

...points. California ia a VERY expensive place to live, and some areas do pay MORE here to motivate educators to come here AND to help them be able to afford the cost-of-living here. (Some still can't, BTW.)

In MANY other states, the teacher salary scale is much lower than here. Thank you for making that point. :)

[w8liftinglady]

54. Bull-fucking-shit. My partner,a tenured elem teacher - 51K/yr

so,teaching math to 30 5th graders isn't worth $50K.
typical.

[Zebedeo]

57. OMG that is a lot of money

if you consider that it includes 3 months off in the summer, 3 or 4 weeks off at Christmas and New Years, a week off at Spring Break, going home at 3:00 p.m., etc. People in the private sector that make that kind of money work 60, 80 or sometimes 100 hours per week, 52 weeks a year. They pay their own money for health insurance. They contribute their own money to a 401(K) instead of having a guaranteed generous pension. They don't have job security such as tenure.

No offense, but I think I might explore becoming a teacher. Seriously.

[YvonneCa]

58. "...if you consider that it includes 3 months off in the summer, 3 or 4 weeks off at Christmas and..

...New Years, a week off at Spring Break, going home at 3:00 p.m., etc." Your words. But you bought the spin. This is not true, either, Zebedo.

[LeftishBrit]

73. And how many teachers actually get that sort of money?

And most people in the private sector who get that sort of money work in much more comfortable, and safer, conditions.

Nor is it true that teachers just 'take off' at 3 p.m. and have long holidays with no work- there is a lot of administrative and marking work, and usually meetings to attend outside 'school time'.

Moreover, teaching the next generation is one of the most important jobs that there is. So if you consider doing it, I hope you don't do it just because you think you'll have a lot of time off, or you'll probably be a *bad* teacher.

[Zebedeo]

78. Don't they get a free hour in the day to

grade papers? That's how it worked in my high school. And the notion that they work all Summer to prepare for the new school year does not ring true to me. I think experienced teachers (those making the big bucks) probably have it down pretty well. If anything, I would think that a day of preparation should be sufficient to tweak the lesson plan for the new school year. If I am wrong, please explain. What am I missing?

I agree that teaching is an important job, but importance is not the sole determinant of pay scale. Many teachers have only a bachelor's degree. Some have a master's degree, but almost none have a PhD or professional degree. There are lawyers who make only $40,000 a year, with no benefits. There are many, many people with as much or more education than teachers who don't have any realistic prospect of ever finding a job that will pay $75,000 plus benefits that take the compensation package into the six figures.

Teachers are paid by the citizens of their local community, through property taxes. I do not believe it is unreasonable to expect that the compensation of teachers be in line with what others in the community with similar educational qualifications earn.

[YvonneCa]

79. In 25 years, I've never had a free hour...

...to 'grade papers'or anything else. That would have been heaven.

[emmadoggy]

93. Wow. You have completely bought into the spin.

Summers off here are usually more like 2 1/2 months and many teachers start planning, prepping, and buying supplies before that time. Plus, many work other jobs during the summer, some teach summer school, and some take courses that are required to keep their certification up-to-date or classes to advance their degrees (all of which they pay for themselves.)

Colleges may get 3 or 4 weeks off at Christmas, but I don't know of ANY public schools that do. Our Christmas break amounts to about 7-8 working days.

Some, maybe many, public schools get a Spring break, but the school where I work gets nothing like that. We get 3 days off for Easter. Thursday, Friday and Monday. Last year we had a lot of snow days to make up, so we ended up having to use the Thursday and Monday as snow make-up days. So that was ONE day off.

I don't know ANY teachers who take off and leave as soon as the bell rings. Most of our teachers arrive between 7:30 and 8:00 a.m. and work until 4:00 (They are required to!). Most of them tutor after school at least one or two days a week. Teachers also have to help out working at sporting events by taking tickets etc. Some teachers work at part-time jobs outside of school to supplement their income.

The teachers in our district DO pay a portion of their health insurance and do pay into their pension, just like other employees. If there are some teachers who are lucky enough to not have to do that, I think that is GREAT!

In my school, the vast majority of the teachers have Master's degrees. Teachers who have been teaching for many, many years - 30+ - are generally making $55,000-60,000. Does that sound exorbitant to you?? After 30 years?? It sure as hell doesn't to me.

You know, there are a hell of a lot of teachers right here on DU who have been setting people straight on the FACTS about teaching. I guess you haven't been paying attention.

[GSLevel9]

59. it's all in the small print...

the RW claim is "Average Salary is 89,000" in salary and benefits.

I don't doubt that. The average SALARY according to real stats is 52,000/yr in Wi. Add in Healthcare and retirement contributions and paid leave, etc and I have no doubt that number is correct.

However... I see no problem with compensating teachers that amount.

[WCIL]

60. All the teachers I work with at a department store

who are on night/weekend shifts must just be doing it for fun then. They just thrive on the stress of leaving school, coming to their second job, and then starting their grading/lesson planning at 11PM!

Seriously, teachers in my town in the first few years of their careers can't survive without their second jobs. Most use every penny from those second jobs to pay their student loans.

[YvonneCa]

64. I know a (now retired) teacher who...

...worked for CocaCola every school break and summers to make ends meet for his family. Another teacher worked part time for a bank to supplement his income. Neither took vacations..ever. They couldn't afford to.

[Generic Other]

61. Why is this a misleading comparison?

Why is this a misleading comparison? For starters, as USA Today explained in its article: "Public employee unions say the compensation gap reflects the increasingly high level of skill and education required for most federal jobs and the government contracting out lower-paid jobs to the private sector in recent years." The article further quotes Colleen Kelley, president of the National Treasury Employees Union, as saying, "The data are not useful for a direct public-private pay comparison."

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201008110022

Comparing Private and Public Sector Compensation
The Center for State and Local Government Excellence and the National Institute on Retirement Security jointly released a study comparing what state and local government employees earn compared with private sector workers. The study, “Out of Balance? Comparing Public and Private Sector Compensation Over 20 Years,” provides an original analysis of data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and finds that: (Source)

Jobs in the public sector typically require more education than private sector positions. State and local employees are twice as likely to hold a college degree or higher as compared to private sector employees. Only 23 percent of private sector employees have completed college, as compared to about 48 percent in the public sector.

Wages and salaries of state and local employees are lower than those for private sector employees with comparable earnings determinants, such as education and work experience. State workers typically earn 11 percent less and local workers 12 percent less.

During the last 15 years, the pay gap has grown: Earnings for state and local workers have generally declined relative to comparable private sector employees.

http://prof77.wordpress.com/2011/02/18/scapegoating-of-public-employees/

[Iris]

63. Good stuff. Thanks for posting.

[YvonneCa]

66. Thanks for posting this. n/t

[Generic Other]

62. The national average for teachers is $55,202.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x455847

[shanti]

67. the same is said about state employees

divide and conquer...

[Hannah Bell]

70. it's said about every group of workers that the ruling class is trying to reduce to penury.

you'd think people would get wise after seeing it done so often.

[Hannah Bell]

69. they lie constantly, & when you call them on their lies they just move on to the next lie.

nazis. i swear to god it's straight from the nazi playbook.

all they have is lies.

[olegramps]

83. But , Hannah if you tell the same lie often enough it becomes the perceived realty.

When I was a young man we all thought that 1984 was an interesting read, but I don't believe that any of my crowd ever believed that it could become a reality. It was simply outrageous at the time to actually entertain any such notion as coming to past. When you can manage to listen to the likes of Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Beck...you can only conclude that Orwell must have had the unique ability to foresee the future. Lies are truth, slavery is freedom...

By the way I enjoy your posts. They are very informtive. I don't have any valentines since we are donating very thing that we can afford to the local food bank. A lot of families in our parish are desperate.

[YvonneCa]

89. You are right about 1984. Remember when GWB said...

...he had to catapult the propaganda? Who would have thought...

Glad you got a couple of Valentine hearts... :)

[KillCapitalism]

72. Yeah, they think public employees are all rich.

I worked in an IT position in for the state of Missouri that required a degree from 2000-2004. I started and ended at $21,000 a year there. Friends of mine at equivalent positions in the private sector easily made double that.

It's just that the idiot teabaggers want slavery to return. You could point out to them that a Cambodian factory worker makes 35 cents an hour and they'd say "Them greedy workers is overpaid!"

[YvonneCa]

80. They are very selfish and...

...ignorant people, IMHO.

[Zoeisright]

77. My husband has been a teacher for five years. He went back to school to

get his license. And he doesn't even make half of $100,000. And he has a master's degree.

Fucking lying repukes.

[ShadowLiberal]

82. I believe only the most senior teachers ever make $100,000, new teachers make under $30,000

I live in PA so maybe these numbers are a bit different elsewhere with different costs of living, etc. But around here a new teacher straight out of college often makes less then $30,000 dollars annually. Only the people who have been teaching for decades and are close to retirement make $100,000 a year.

I know this because it was in the news years ago back when the school districts were offering very generous retirement packages to all the elderly teachers, because long term they could hire two new teachers to replace them and still be spending less for so many years. Our school district lost a lot of good teachers close to retirement already that year.

[YvonneCa]

90. That's the case in California...

...too.

[Gothmog]

84. Here is a good source debunking this crap

http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/6759/

However, the data indicates that state and local government employees in Wisconsin are not overpaid. Comparisons controlling for education, experience, organizational size, gender, race, ethnicity, citizenship, and disability reveal that employees of both state and local governments in Wisconsin earn less than comparable private sector employees. On an annual basis, full-time state and local government employees in Wisconsin are undercompensated by 8.2% compared with otherwise similar private sector workers. This compensation disadvantage is smaller but still significant when hours worked are factored in. Full-time public employees work fewer annual hours, particularly employees with bachelor’s, master’s, and professional degrees (because many are teachers or university professors).
When comparisons are made controlling for the difference in annual hours worked, full-time state and local government employees are undercompensated by 4.8%, compared with otherwise similar private sector workers. To summarize, our study shows that Wisconsin public employees earn 4.8% less in total compensation per hour than comparable full-time employees in Wisconsin’s private sector.

These compensation comparisons account for important factors that affect earnings, the most important of which is the educational levels of public employees. When comparing public and private sector pay it is essential to consider the much higher levels of education required by occupations in the public sector. As a consequence of these requirements, Wisconsin public sector workers are on average more highly educated than private sector workers; 59% of full-time Wisconsin public sector workers hold at least a four-year college degree, compared
with 30% of full-time private sector workers. Wisconsin state and local governments pay college-educated employees 25% less in annual compensation, on average, than private employers. The compensation differential is greatest for professional employees, lawyers, and doctors. On the other hand, the public sector appears to set a floor on compensation, which benefits less-educated workers. The 1% of state and local government workers without high school diplomas earn more than comparably educated workers in the private sector.

[Jakes Progress]

85. Just shows again how truly stupid republican voters are.

If they think this is true, they are so completely, fucking dumb they should be restrained from leaving their house.

[YvonneCa]

91. ...

...:7 Is that legal? ;)

[Jakes Progress]

94. Legal and prudent don't always coincide.

[YvonneCa]

95. ...

...:7

[Gothmog]

86. Here are some more facts debunking this crap

http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/article/20110220/CWS0101/102200672/1982/WRT04/Budget-debate-about-fundamentals

A policy memo was released earlier this week by the Economic Policy Institute in Washington, D.C., that compared Wisconsin public and private employee costs. It concluded that comparing public and private employee is like comparing "apples to oranges".

The report states that:

• "When we compare apples to apples," Wisconsin public employees earn 4.8 percent less in total compensation than comparable private sector workers.

• Wisconsin public employees receive "considerably better" benefits than their private sector counterparts.

• Public employees earn lower wages and get less in total compensation, including benefits, than comparable private sector employees.

The Economic Policy Institute is a progressive nonprofit think tank that focuses on economic policy and the interests of low- and middle-income workers. Its board of directors is dominated by union representatives including Trumka, Andrew Stern, former president of the Service Employees International Union, and Randi Weingarten, president of American Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO.

[Arkana]

92. What the FUCK?

I wanna know where teachers are making that much except in really high-end private schools.

I do not know a single fucking public school teacher who makes anything approaching that. Fuck Pat Buchanan.