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[right2bfree]

This message was self-deleted and locked by right2bfree.

[mediator]

1. Jim Russell is an idiot. There are virtually no automatic weapons "out there".

And maybe that other idiot Shannon Noland could put up a "Gun Free Zone" sign in her front yard. :grr:

[right2bfree]

4. There are LOTS of automatic weapons OUT THERE!

[Ken_Fish]

6. 175,000 machiine guns exactly. None have ever been used in a single crime, since 1934

kinda squishes that meme.

Now actually doing something about mental health care is a brilliant idea.

[guruoo]

11. Good night,

lights out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrlUsaYlKPs

[guitar man]

12. Those full autos were illegal

Obtained illegally and not part of the legally registered 175,000 automatic weapons he was referring to .

[Ken_Fish]

15. Price is wrong bob... Those were not on the NFA, like all the meth cooked up

has no bearing on a schedule 2 drug you get at the pharmacy. Like I said, 70 years of data. NOT ONE CRIME. Kinda squishes the evil machine gun meme.

[guruoo]

5. Poor sucker probably believes all those youtube vids are real

http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=strict&tbs=vid%3A1&q=machine+gun+shoot&btnG=Search

[Ken_Fish]

7. People who have 20k in disposable income generally dont go nuts

and when they do, they get excellent mental health care. Again not one NFA gun (like those in your video) has ever been used in a crime.

[guruoo]

8. clairvoyant much? nt

[Ken_Fish]

9. I only have 70 years of data to back up my position? You

let me guess , feelings?

[Maru Kitteh]

42. That is the most simple thing I've ever heard. Who knew the mere posession of disposable income

functioned as a prophylactic against mental illness?


Ever heard of this guy named Howard Hughes? There are so many more examples, just like him in dysfunction.

[friendly_iconoclast]

2. Loughner *could* have been evaluated under AZ law- but no one called the authorities

Granted, he might not have been found mentally incompetent- but he could have been put on a 72-hour psych hold for

observation at the very least.

[right2bfree]

3. Exactly!! In CA, a 72 hour hold takes guns out of the hands of the mentally ill........

...and keeps them from buying more guns or ammo legally.

This should be a nationwide law, not just a few states.

[Ken_Fish]

10. We need to step back and treat the mentally ill with more than a hold

actually look at treating these people so they dont kill themselves and others.

[right2bfree]

33. Getting the guns out of thier hands is the best way to prevent all the killings...

and we have too many Americans are doped up on psychiatric medications these days.

Drugs and guns just dont mix very well.

Time to change that for the good of our society, in the name of safety.

[Juche]

45. Not allowing black males ages 13-25 to own a gun would stop a lot of killings too

Since that demograhic commits about half the gun violence in the country. But we don't do it because being afraid of someone isn't justification to take away their rights w/o probable cause. Why are you constantly assuming all mentally ill people are violent killers? Most are just sitting at home watching the wheel of fortune. That or they are homeless.

Do the severely mentally ill need guns? No. But treating them as violent predators in waiting isn't helping them.

[RSillsbee]

39. legally.

That's a big word.

[jpak]

13. Anyone who believes they need a 30 round magazine is mentally ill

yup

[Ken_Fish]

14. What about 3 10 round mags? they are all set?(nt)

[jpak]

16. When they try to reload - take them down

yup

[Ken_Fish]

20. Right, then they fire the round in the chamber.

it takes an average person less than 2 seconds to reload. Most good shooters can do it in less than 1 second with the gun never being unloaded. You are aware a magazine can be dropped and a new one reloaded with the gun still capable of firing?

Good luck with that. Stop watching tv, want to learn about something go try it.

[-..__...]

21. You go first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgdq1FBYTUE

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=magazine+change+fast&aq=1

[jpak]

24. An unarmed 64 year old woman finally brought that asshole down

An old unarmed lady

Not some gun toting douchebag

yup

[Ken_Fish]

25. Great on her part. His extended mag jammed. Having actually operated a firearm

and supervised others doing so I have seen this happen with glock 19's in real life. not on the internets or cause katie couric said so. They ftf then create a double feed.

No one said a gun was NECESSARY to stop it. But hey had the police shown up, I'm sure they would have sent their oldest member in to tackle him.. Right?

Bonus points, bet if that old lady was asked if she wanted a 38 vs (in addition to) using herself as a human shield I wonder which she would choose.

[jpak]

28. What is an acceptable death toll for NRA 30 round mag insanity?

People died - including a 9 year old girl - yet the NRA makes out like THEY are the victims.

Fucking assholes

They suck

yup

[Ken_Fish]

29. Honest people address root cause.

are you saying he should be able to fire round 1 - 11 and murder people but on 12 he is an extra bad murderer? He can shoot the first rounds unimpeded? Really?

Lets be honest, root cause is a man with mental illness no one bothered to treat or call in. No system exists to protect us (and him) from his actions.

You can talk all the ban you want. It will never happen, that went out with MC Hammer pants.

So unless you want to discuss prohibition of alcohol to prevent DWI I suggest redirecting time and energy into an actual solution.

[right2bfree]

37. This insanity has GOT to be stopped. Firearms for people with mental distubances??

What kind of county do we want to live in where blood
runs in the streets, because we let mental patients
carry guns around?

This country is INSANE !

[Ken_Fish]

43. guess one flew over the cuckoo's nest.. No really we used to treat mentlly ill people

now they are homeless or live in jails and prisons. I see that movie documenting a great tragedy. Not saying mentally ill people should be locked up, but they should get care.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[-..__...]

26. Luck of the draw....

and a jammed firearm.

Spin the wheel again and take your chances.

Given the choice, where would you rather place your bet (life),... a tackle, or head shot?

[Ken_Fish]

27. There is video of a man in a Mexican Train station getting killed

trying the same thing. Maybe a year ago, badguy takes one step back and kills him. Not sure on rules will not post it.

[-..__...]

19. I only need a 29 round mag...

what does that make me?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[petronius]

41. You've never had any in-person experience with mental illness, have you?

I doubt you'd be so casual about using it as an insult if you had...

[-..__...]

17. This could have easily been prevented...

if any and all mental health records, psychiatric evaluations (voluntary and non-voluntary), as well as anonymous reports from concerned citizens were entered in publicly accessible database.

[X_Digger]

30. Well, that's running a bit too far in the other direction, IMHO..

I wouldn't want 'concerned citizen' reports used for more than an interview.

Otherwise, the president of you local HOA would never get out of the psych hold due to pissed off HOA members.

[right2bfree]

36. Exactly! They had a mentally ill man near here who killed two mental health workers and...

a manager of a diner, before he was stopped by the police.

His brother was a cop and KNEW he had firearms and ammo in his house, as well as being
treated for mental illness, but he didnt report it to authorities or collect the weapons
up himself.

Now three people are dead, thanks to a cop who didn't tell his office or anyone
that there was a clear and present danger at his brothers place waiting to happen!!!!!

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[krispos42]

23. So we're letting the gun-ignorant be interviewed again?

To express their "truthiness" on the issue?


Great.

[Juche]

31. Yup, he'd never get a gun then

Sarcasm. FWIW mentally ill people are far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators.

http://www.emaxhealth.com/7/3028.html

More than one-fourth of individuals with severe mental illness were victims of violent crime in the past year, almost 12 times general population rates, according to a study in the August issue of Archives of General Psychiatry.

Depending on the type of violent crime (rape/sexual assault, robbery and assault), prevalence was 6 to 23 times greater among persons with severe mental illness than among the general population, said lead author Linda A. Teplin, PhD, Owen L. Coon Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Northwestern University's Feinberg School of Medicine.


Evenso, convicted felons can get guns. So someone deemed mentally ill could get one too. If Loughner had wanted a gun badly enough he could've gotten one anyway even if declared mentally ill. He'd just do a straw purchase, or steal a gun from someone's house/car, or find a corrupt dealer, or buy one on the black market. Its not like he'd never get a gun even if someone did panic and assume all mentally ill people are violent.

[right2bfree]

38. He would _NOT_ get a LEGALLY purchased gun, No, not at all. nt

[RSillsbee]

40. LEGALLY

There you go using that word again.

I have never smoke any LEGALLY purchased weed in my life. Didn't make too much difference

[Juche]

44. No he wouldn't

Getting a gun on the black or gray market can be done, so making it illegal just makes it harder, not impossible. The Columbine kids broke dozens of gun and weapons laws. But that didn't stop them.

One of the good things that reduced the damage Loughner did in this shooting was how poor he was. If he had cash reserves he could've bought two glocks with 30 round clips. Imagine the carnage from that. He could shoot with one to hold people off while reloading the other, since he was stopped while reloading. But the gun he bought cost $500 each.

The point is, you probably can't stop people like him by passing a law. If he wanted to do this badly enough he would have done it. Anyone willing to commit about 20 counts of murder and attempted murder is going to be willing to break the law to get a gun.

[X_Digger]

32. It is a bit of a conundrum..

There are a lot of factors to be considered.

Back in 1968 when the original 'mental defective' / 'involuntary commitment' rule was established, there were a lot more people being committed-- many that we know today can be treated without locking them up.

Mental illness itself shouldn't be a bar to rights, especially if it's of a non-violent variety. Some have claimed that as many as 1 in 4 persons in the US has some form / degree of diagnosable mental illness.

If we did start restricting rights based on a lower standard, one of the unintended consequences would be driving people away from mental health care. (There are still states that disallow voting by those who have been committed.)

Mentally ill people are more often the victim of violent crime than the perpetrator, by a HUGE ratio.

We need mental health care parity, and we need to work on removing the stigma attached to seeking help.

[cliffordu]

35. And don't forget to take away their fucking

CARS, too.

Can't have a bunch of crazy people driving around.