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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:34 AM Original message |
A map, for those who have forgotten this |
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OHdem10 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:39 AM Response to Original message |
1. I guess we just as well hang up our hats, hand the government |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:41 AM Response to Reply #1 |
4. No, that would be the effect of nominating someone like Sanders |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:42 AM Response to Reply #4 |
60. Since there can't be anything progressive in a second Obama term |
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avaistheone1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:39 AM Response to Original message |
2. "No we can't" |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:41 AM Response to Reply #2 |
3. If the American people wanted that, they would have voted for Mondale |
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NorthCarolina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:01 AM Response to Reply #2 |
16. Funny how "History" has ultimate meaning here, and yet this same crowd |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:02 AM Response to Reply #16 |
18. Reagan raised FICA levies |
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hobbit709 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:43 AM Response to Original message |
5. You really believe those were the only factors in that election? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:49 AM Response to Reply #5 |
9. This was 1984, not 1980 |
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Donnachaidh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:19 AM Response to Reply #9 |
33. and that recession was not as deep as this one |
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Le Taz Hot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:30 AM Response to Reply #9 |
113. Wrong. |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:25 AM Response to Reply #5 |
42. And Mondale ran a bad campaign |
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SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 06:39 PM Response to Reply #42 |
99. Mondale had the charisma of a three-day old biscuit |
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HughBeaumont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 08:56 AM Response to Reply #99 |
105. At the DNC in San Fran - |
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jillan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:44 AM Response to Original message |
6. And Howard Dean not only reminded everyone, but proved, that inside all those red states |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:48 AM Response to Reply #6 |
7. When? |
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MannyGoldstein (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:04 AM Response to Reply #7 |
21. You don't remember the 2006 Dem takeover of Congress? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:06 AM Response to Reply #21 |
23. You mean when we ran conservative Democrats to win conservative districts? |
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MannyGoldstein (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:07 AM Response to Reply #23 |
24. It was a start. Obama is an end. nt |
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harun (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:49 AM Response to Original message |
8. It isn't 1980. it is 2010. Just because the people went that way in |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:51 AM Response to Reply #8 |
12. That map wasn't 1980 either; it was 1984 |
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harun (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:49 AM Response to Reply #12 |
69. I see ideas from the Enterprise Institute, as soon as he implements a |
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RUMMYisFROSTED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:49 AM Response to Original message |
10. America votes for Presidents on personality. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:53 AM Response to Reply #10 |
14. And height, allegedly |
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Gaedel (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:08 AM Response to Reply #10 |
79. How about 1972, Nixon vs McGovern? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:12 AM Response to Reply #79 |
81. My grandmother met McGovern |
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RUMMYisFROSTED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 02:40 PM Response to Reply #79 |
95. Here's where the strawman entered: |
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Gaedel (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 03:16 PM Response to Reply #95 |
96. I thought that Tricky Dick was going to win |
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Echotrail (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:50 AM Response to Original message |
11. We can't win anyway so we might as well not try. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:52 AM Response to Reply #11 |
13. Jesus people, not getting everything we want isn't a "loss" |
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T Wolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:00 AM Response to Reply #13 |
15. EVERYTHING?!?!?! True Democrats have not gotten shit from this president and congress except |
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MannyGoldstein (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:01 AM Response to Original message |
17. I guess FDR ran on the same platform as Reagan! |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:05 AM Response to Reply #17 |
22. FDR ran in a much more liberal era than 1984 or 2010 |
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MannyGoldstein (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:08 AM Response to Reply #22 |
25. No |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:17 AM Response to Reply #25 |
29. Agreed: The prevailing ethos in America in the 1930s was NOT liberal |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:19 AM Response to Reply #29 |
34. Well, no |
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MannyGoldstein (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:30 AM Response to Reply #34 |
47. Even FDR was against "the dole" when he took office! |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:32 AM Response to Reply #47 |
49. Yes, he ran on cutting taxes and decreasing "government interference" in 1932 |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:43 AM Response to Reply #34 |
62. Umm, yes |
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Le Taz Hot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:34 AM Response to Reply #25 |
114. +1 |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:50 AM Response to Reply #22 |
70. Tell that to minority communities |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:21 AM Response to Reply #22 |
83. Prohibition was a much more liberal era??? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:24 AM Response to Reply #83 |
84. It was even *called* "The Progressive Era" |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 12:24 PM Response to Reply #83 |
90. Sad fact: Prohibition very much came about because of progressive support. |
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hedgehog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:02 AM Response to Original message |
19. I have some disagreement with your premise. I voted in 1980, |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:03 AM Response to Reply #19 |
20. Why have 3 people now said Mondale ran in 1980? (nt) |
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hedgehog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 12:29 PM Response to Reply #20 |
91. Us older folks tend to blur dates........i just saw the name Mondale and didn't |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 12:08 PM Response to Reply #19 |
88. See, that's the thing. No matter how far to the right Democrats run... |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:10 AM Response to Original message |
26. What ought Reagan to have concluded looking at the 1964 electoral map? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:17 AM Response to Reply #26 |
30. That he should exploit racial resentment in the south and midwest |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:29 AM Response to Reply #30 |
46. Well, we know from that a black man could never win in the south and midwest |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:31 AM Response to Reply #46 |
48. *sigh* |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:38 AM Response to Reply #48 |
54. Bush then was less to the right than Kerry was to the left? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:40 AM Response to Reply #54 |
58. Yes; W was a triangulator |
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tjwash (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:18 AM Response to Reply #26 |
32. Reagan was still making cut-rate B grade movies in 64 |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:33 AM Response to Reply #32 |
51. The premise of this thread is that a generation-old map determines today's political reality |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:45 AM Response to Reply #51 |
66. If it makes you feel better to think that's what I'm saying... (nt) |
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RZM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:06 AM Response to Reply #32 |
78. Actually |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:11 AM Response to Reply #32 |
80. By 1964 he had been doing his GE speeches for 8 years |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:12 AM Response to Original message |
27. Mondale ran an inept, foot-in-mouth campaign |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:21 AM Response to Reply #27 |
37. Everyone always says the press is against them |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:26 AM Response to Reply #37 |
44. Just out of curiousity, how old were you in 1984? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:28 AM Response to Reply #44 |
45. One hundred and three (nt) |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:33 AM Response to Reply #45 |
50. That's about what I would have guessed. |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:00 AM Response to Reply #45 |
75. I attended speeches by all the major Democratic candidates |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:36 AM Response to Reply #44 |
52. Me? I was in my early thirties |
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tjwash (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:15 AM Response to Original message |
28. Don't forget the 1980 map, when the Dems ran a primary challenger against Carter |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:17 AM Response to Reply #28 |
31. And Jesse Jackson's primary campaign proves no black man should run... |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:04 AM Response to Reply #28 |
76. Yeah, because Iran and the economy and October Surprise had nothing to do with that. |
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tomm2thumbs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:31 AM Response to Reply #28 |
86. Didn't Carter suffer from not dealing with hostage takers? |
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1VaDem (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:20 AM Response to Original message |
35. It is true that we are only Liberal in pockets. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:23 AM Response to Reply #35 |
39. Though the same could be said for conservatives |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:20 AM Response to Original message |
36. Obama is NOT left of center |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:21 AM Response to Reply #36 |
38. Because you guys still pretend he's a conservative (nt) |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:39 AM Response to Reply #38 |
56. No pretending here |
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HughBeaumont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:01 AM Response to Reply #56 |
108. I don't really think many people on this board, or this country, for that matter . . . |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:19 AM Response to Reply #38 |
82. Yes that's exactly what we do |
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HughBeaumont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:00 AM Response to Reply #38 |
107. Yes, most people on the left that I know give the rich everything they want. |
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mikekohr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:24 AM Response to Original message |
40. Pragmatic Progressive Post, BRAVO! |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:25 AM Response to Original message |
41. Why don't you show us the one from the 1856 election? |
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PSPS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:25 AM Response to Original message |
43. Silly comparison |
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Marr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:36 AM Response to Original message |
53. The '84 election was not about 'corporate power vs. populism', and it's |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:39 AM Response to Reply #53 |
55. I said it has changed |
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Marr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:49 AM Response to Reply #55 |
68. Perhaps I should have said, 'hasn't changed in a way that would make |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:53 AM Response to Reply #68 |
71. No, I said we're less averse than we were 5 years ago |
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Marr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:59 AM Response to Reply #71 |
74. Ah-- I'm having reading comprehension troubles this morning, pardon me. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:04 AM Response to Reply #74 |
77. Hey, it's Monday |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:41 AM Response to Reply #53 |
59. Yes, the Establishment press is definitely lined up for Establishment candidates |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:44 AM Response to Reply #59 |
65. Ain't that the truth |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:40 AM Response to Original message |
57. Your analysis of 1984 is bullshit. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:43 AM Response to Reply #57 |
64. I am proud to say I voted for Rev. Jackson in the Primary, and met him in my town. |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:46 AM Response to Reply #64 |
67. I was one of only a handful of white Jackson supporters in the Alaska precinct caucuses that year |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:58 AM Response to Reply #67 |
73. I met him that year in MS |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:42 AM Response to Original message |
61. Mondale may have lost, but history anathematizes Reagan. |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:43 AM Response to Original message |
63. If your prinicples demand that you vote for centrists do so. Mine don't. |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:54 AM Response to Original message |
72. Mondale a populist? That is hilarious! |
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bushisanidiot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:24 AM Response to Original message |
85. The electorate is only SLIGHTLY left of center. When the left tries to pull the |
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That Guy 888 (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:44 AM Response to Original message |
87. Yes, to the average voter Walter Mondale was as charasmatic and engaging as raygun |
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bobbolink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 12:10 PM Response to Original message |
89. We all love a good hot cup of FEAR in the morning. |
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Octafish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 12:32 PM Response to Original message |
92. October Surprise |
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BlueIris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:05 AM Response to Reply #92 |
109. Many on this board should look to the forthcoming |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 12:36 PM Response to Original message |
93. All your government are belong to us. nt |
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The Midway Rebel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 12:45 PM Response to Original message |
94. Dewd...two words. |
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progressoid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:53 PM Response to Original message |
97. And maybe because he was dull. |
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Lucian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:55 PM Response to Original message |
98. Most voters in this country are idiots. |
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Krakowiak (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 06:40 PM Response to Original message |
100. Man, it's too bad that Reagan dude is dead now |
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asdjrocky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 06:45 PM Response to Original message |
101. Then I guess we need a new system. |
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GreenPartyVoter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 06:55 PM Response to Reply #101 |
102. Agreed |
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Wednesdays (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 07:11 PM Response to Original message |
103. Too many variables |
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GOTV (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 08:46 AM Response to Original message |
104. Certainly it had nothing to do with the fact that Reagan was a professional spokesperson .... |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 08:59 AM Response to Original message |
106. What a pathetic attempt to discourage anybody from fighting for anything ever again. |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:05 AM Response to Original message |
110. The economy was on the mend and Reagan took credit for it, so Mondale was screwed. |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:10 AM Response to Original message |
111. Vote! |
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reformist2 (998 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:26 AM Response to Original message |
112. Democrats need to stop obsessing over Reagan. |
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CanonRay (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:59 AM Response to Original message |
115. That was the year we handed our future to the right wing |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:32 AM Response to Original message |
116. I contrast the "lesson" learned from 72 and 84 versus the lesson conservative learned from 64 |
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