Mass Arrests Happening at Quantico.

[Hissyspit]

Source: Jane Hamsher

janehamsher: Mass arrests happening at Quantico.

janehamsher: Protestors at Quantico facing off against huge line of police shields, per David House @popularch

80 year-old @DanielEllsberg sitting down at Quantico, refusing to move: http://fdl.me/quanticolive

Arresting Quantico protesters and taking them one by one onto 2 police busses

@FitzgibbonMedia, protesters only broke barricade after bad faith cops went back on word & didn't let @Ellsberg et al go to Iwo Jima

Read more: http://mobile.twitter.com/janehamsher/status/49560494075412481

[Dennis Donovan]

1. Rec'd - They're GITMOing an American citizen.

[mattvermont]

2. Brad Manning for Nobel Peace Prize

Fuck the FBI and the state department they rode in on

[slay]

3. A far more fitting recipient

then Obama. WTF was the nobel committee thinking when they gave it to Obama the war president? i guess they got caught up in his charisma like so many of us did. :(

[daleo]

11. It was a kind of bribe

Here's a Nobel Peace Prize, now you will be ashamed if you start a war. Didn't work.

[Enthusiast]

104. They fell for the ruse, like we did.

The illusion they created was finely tuned to generate enthusiasm for Obama -the candidate. And they aren't done. Obama is the mechanism that will allow for the privatization of social security and the protection of war criminals and Wall Street thieves.

[No Elephants]

120. They heard him campaign on breathing life back into our war on Afganistan and believed him.

So, they gave him the Prize in an attempt to make him change his mind. It was a "Noble Nobel" attempt. It failed, but it was worth a try, in their opinion.

I cannot say they were wrong, or naive, to try. What else could they have done to try to make him change his mind?

[Enthusiast]

131. You are right.

Just the idea of a non-Bush president was appealing to the world. Everyone had hope for a non-imperialistic U.S.A. Obama has squandered the greatest mandate in the history of the United States, maybe in the history of the entire world.

[No Elephants]

118. A member of the Committee said "Sometimes, the award is aspirational." IOW, what Daleo said.

[sarcasmo]

7. +1

[Enthusiast]

103. Now now now.

We just need a Republican to head up the FBI and all will be well.

[No Elephants]

121. Already being cheered by some DUers.

[loudsue]

123. There are infiltrators all throughout the democratic party. It is intentional.

They crawl all over this board, as well as in the precincts all throughout the country. They're like cockroaches.

[Enthusiast]

130. No question.

When they argue Republican talking points on DU it's pretty clear where they come from.

This is an indication of the scope of the right wing assault on American values and tradition. You know, truth, justice and the American way.

[Catherina]

4. Land of the free? Right to peaceful protests? Rec'd n/t

[24601]

9. There is no right to protest on military bases and it posted that

demonstrations are prohibited. Entering most bases is limited to appropriate ID card holders.

Go climb the White House fence and tell the secret service you are just exercising your right to protest - no doubt they'll just let you go right ahead.

[EFerrari]

12. The right of citizens to seek redress from their government

applies all over these United States.

[PavePusher]

20. And is pretty misplaced by trespassing on a military base.

But hey, any excuse to be a media whore, amIright?

[EFerrari]

23. Have you ever been right? Calling protesters, whores?

Very classy there.

:)

[PavePusher]

32. I did say "media whore".

Personally, I have the greatest respect for anyone working the sex industry. They, at least, have to give some value for money, unlike the shills competing for air-time.

[EFerrari]

35. Your contempt for the First Amendment, noted. n/t

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Major Hogwash]

99. By reading your posts.

Seeing what you say, what side you take on the issue, and how aggravated you get when called on it.

The most attention-seeking self-absorbed idiot is usually the one bitching on the internet about someone else who is doing something in the real world instead of sitting on their ass bitching.

Capish?

[Taverner]

54. Wow - you and I are agreeing more and more these days...

What gives?

[EFerrari]

63. Don't worry, Taverner, it'll pass

lol

:hi:

[Laughing Mirror]

38. They weren't on the base

So who's the media whore here?

[PavePusher]

71. I seem to have misconstrued someone elses comment.

My mistake, mea culpa.

[sabrina 1]

42. Who said they were trespassing on a military base?

Do you have a link to this story?

And btw, assuming American citizens did want to protest on a military base, who owns those bases? Did someone sell them to some foreign entity making them off limits to their original owners?

[Sherman A1]

55. Precisely

I was under the impression that the US Military worked for the Citizens of the United States.

[Enthusiast]

105. We have forgotten that.

Unfortunately.

[PavePusher]

72. Please see #71. My misunderstanding. n/t

[sabrina 1]

77. Okay, thank you ~

[Matariki]

48. Good lord. What are you doing here?

[No Elephants]

122. Tony, is that you?

[spooked911]

125. No, you're not right

people sometimes need to break the rules to make a point

[Cleita]

18. So the military can assert their rights but ordinary

citizens, whose taxes pay for the military, can't?

[PavePusher]

21. How, exactly, is tresspassing on a military base "asserting their rights"? N/T

[socialist_n_TN]

29. Well, it could be argued that WE as taxpayers..........

own those bases and pay the salaries of the soldiers there too.

[PavePusher]

31. Oh good, so I can walk into any other government office too...

like the CIA, or FBI or any Senator or Representatives office, or the House floor.... amIright?

[Laughing Mirror]

39. Route 1 is not on Quantico military base

Check it out on Google Maps.

[lynne]

46. Rt. 1 feeds into Quantico. Per local paper and local FB, people were -

- standing on Rt. 1 and wouldn't move. Traffic backed up for miles, even back to Rt. 95. That was the problem and the reason for the arrests.

[Laughing Mirror]

49. Yes, I know, I posted a link to that

Of course, traffic backed up is always much more important in the world, isn't it?

[lynne]

50. Creating a hazard that could cause an accident on a road that my children drive -

- is pretty important to me. Anyone in the road and refusing to move should have been arrested for the safety and well-being of those of us who live here.

[Laughing Mirror]

53. Well my family lives there too

And we're delighted at the protests.

I don't care about people being inconvenienced an hour to two because they and their stupid polluting vehicles can't race them from point A to point B as they have come to expect, as if it's some sort of God given right.

What about those people who are being inconvenienced and killed because of the war crime lies that heros like Bradley Manning and Daniel Elsberg exposed? That's the whole point of this protest.

Oh, and you got your wish. They were arrested.

So you can climb back in your buggy and hit the road.

[PavePusher]

74. I'm glad no-one needed emergency services in the backed-up zone.

That would just be too darn bad for them, amIright?

[sabrina 1]

61. Well, I'm glad you weren't around during the American Revolution

I would tell my children not to use that road for one day, but hey, what do I know, I guess being slightly inconvenienced trumps everything else.

[Enthusiast]

107. LOL nt

[fasttense]

114. Yeah, all those protesters in Egypt were blocking the road too.

Maybe they should have all been arrested for the safety and well-being of those who live there.

Seems to me those protesters were fighting for your children's rights as well as their own. Sometimes a little inconvenience is the price we pay for a free and open society.

[Fuddnik]

124. Oh, the inconvenience of it all.

Hate to see your reaction to a real strike.

You don't get change from power by begging. You've got to demand it. And take it if necessary.

[MattSh]

132. Hey, if the traffic wasn't moving...

Sounds pretty safe to me!

[Luminous Animal]

70. The back up was a result of VDOT's decision to reduce route 1 to one lane each way...

http://everythingtoshare.com/?p=251593

"The Virginia Department of Transportation on Friday issued a traffic alert asking motorists to avoid U.S. 1 between Russell Road and Brady's Hill Road from noon to 5 p.m. due to the protest.

VDOT plans to close Fuller Heights Road at the main gate to Quantico at noon Sunday and reduce traffic on U.S. 1 to one lane each direction."

[Enthusiast]

106. The protesters should have been

joined by hundreds of thousands of us. But the dummying down of America has been incredibly effective.

[Laughing Mirror]

37. Protesters were not on the base,

but outside the base on US Route 1, in Triangle, VA. This is public property. It's a highway.

http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2011/mar/20/2/hundreds-rally-quantico-suspected-wikileaks-whistl-ar-916404/


Hundreds of protestors marched outside of Quantico Marine Corps base on Sunday – and 35 were arrested -- all in support of suspected WikiLeaks whistleblower Pfc. Bradley Manning.

...

The protestors marched down U.S. 1 from Anderson Road in Triangle to the U.S. 1 and Joplin Road intersection, which was closed during most of the event.

...

The protestors remained cordial until police in riot gear formed a wide barricade in the middle of the U.S. 1 and Joplin Road intersection.

Prince William police spokesman Jonathan Perok said some demonstrators stood on U.S. 1 and refused to move.

“At this point, an unlawful assembly was declared and as a result approximately 35 total arrests were made,” Perok wrote in a news release.

Perok said those arrested were taken to the Garfield police substation in Woodbridge and charged with unlawful assembly and careless interference with traffic. One person was charged with assaulting a police officer, he said.

[dotymed]

66. Assault on a Police Officer, is not battery,

but it sounds much worse. Assault would probably be an angry protester telling a cop they're an asshole....

[No Elephants]

119. Do you have a SCOTUS case saying a military base is an exception to free speech and

the right to petition government? If you do, your post is correct. If not, a sign does not trump the Constitution.

What is and what should be are not always congruent.

[XanaDUer]

5. K & R'd

...

[truedelphi]

6. I am so glad we have fought all these wars to protect our democracy here at Home.

NOT!

[Bozita]

15. freedom bombs

[Enthusiast]

108. Excellent point!

When are the sheep going to wake up?

[ejpoeta]

112. freedom of assembly.... as long as you have the proper permits. kind of

defeats the idea of free assembly.

[fasttense]

115. Unlawful assembly?

Wow, the corporate aristocracy even has a name for it. Unlawful assembly?

How dare they assemble for a peaceful protest to petition our government, without all the forms and filings.

Unlawful peaceful protests, how dare they.

[truedelphi]

134. Yep, it sure does. Especially considering the type

Of bureaucrat who usually issues these things.

[jaxx]

8. I wonder why Jane wasn't arrested.

Was she in the background instead of protesting?

[Hissyspit]

10. Oh, good grief.

:eyes:

I never got arrested at any of the protests I went to. Doesn't mean I couldn't have been. She was previously detained for a few a few hours at Quantico. She could have been arrested then. If she HAD been arrested, there would be complaints of her "showboating,"

[NorthCarolina]

24. Hammer, meet nail. nt

[truth2power]

43. Thanks, Hissy. Some people are never satisfied. eom

[slay]

14. Re: pic

nice pic. it clearly shows how Obama has turned his back on the American people in favor of corporations and the super rich.

go ahead - call me Brutus if you want, but he has.

[jaxx]

16. Brutus it is.

I like the pic, it says Democrats support your President and vote.

[slay]

30. So be it. He does not have my vote

least not at this point. i'm supporting whoever runs against him in the 2012 primary. just being slightly better than a republican won't work for me anymore. i want actual positive changes.

[Hissyspit]

34. I think it's possible to vote for and support Obama

and still not try to attack and use weak attempts at character assassination of Hamsher and others.

[Enthusiast]

109. He USED to be my President.

I believed. No more.

[sofa king]

116. That makes me a little sad.

It's true, this President is considerably more moderate in practice than I am. But recall that he won by a massive, populist base of support, and he must do so again, lest the other side get close enough to steal it yet again. Your disappointment stems in part from the uncomfortable reality that our nation is not a true Republic, but that it instead has been infiltrated by anti-democratic forces who will steal the damned cream from our coffee, if we let them.

President Obama is treating the Republican Party as the criminal organization that it is, and his modest success so far has been in spite of their efforts.

That should suggest two things two you right away: first, the President himself, who has a pretty decent liberal record in prior jobs, seems to think that his best chance to win is to diligently guard the center by generating overwhelming support (when in a real democracy he'd be satisfied with around 55% of the votes); second, that the key to President Obama's success in any second term will hinge upon tossing out those people in the House in this next election cycle.

I hope that the next time around, you'll go out there and vote for President Obama and every (D) you find on the ballot, and against every single one of the gangsters who are still working tirelessly to take away what little it is that we have left.

[Enthusiast]

117. "President Obama is treating the Republican Party

as the criminal organization that it is"

No he isn't.

He is continuing many illegal Bush policies. And Obama is far too influenced by Wall Street insiders. No one has even been prosecuted for crimes of fraud. He wants to 'look forward' in regard to Bush crimes. This is not treating them like a criminal organization. Obama should be carrying out the most extensive investigations of Wall Street malfeasance. And his justice department should be investigating every act of criminality by the Bush Administration.

And Obama deserves our scorn for escalating the Afghan War, agreeing to Bush tax cut extensions and the FICA tax holiday.

If "Ds" want my vote they will start to act like Democrats.

I was out there in 2010 voting for every D. A lot of good it did. Obama had already eroded the massive enthusiasm his base had in 2008.

[marasinghe]

17. guess if you were there, you could have answered your rhetorical question for yourself. (n/t)

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. I take it you've never been to a protest

[Possumpoint]

13. Live 3 miles From Base Enterence

Didn't know a protest was going on. However, I've wondered why a helicopter has been hovering over that area for the past 4 hours. Seems they are searching the woods around the base for anyone trying to get in.

[Snoutport]

22. go take us some videos!!!!

pleeeeeease?!!! nobody else will probably cover it!

[old mark]

19. K&R I wonder how the famed liberal media will spin this...if they cover it at all...nt

[Ellipsis]

25. Virginia State Police... shields had a round, orange sticker saying “Free Bradley Manning”

Humanist March 20th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
84

The line of Virginia State Police, wearing riot gear for crowd control at the protest rally, held their clear shields in front of them, and each shield had a round, orange sticker saying “Free Bradley Manning” with his profile in black. Wonderful.


Pretty Mellow Mass Arrest.

[Karmadillo]

26. Gobama!

nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Thank you Daniel Ellsberg

[Puregonzo1188]

33. A man is being tortured and people are upset about "trespassing."

[hardcover]

36. He's not being tortured.

Obama would be the first to say so if he was.
Even though we like having the files public,
you have to admit he broke the law and he did it out of spite for personal reasons. He didn't do it for the public good so don't make a hero out of him. Be happy we have the files but give up on this nonsense about torture.

[HipChick]

40. +1000..

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time..

[defendandprotect]

65. There has been no trial -- there has been torture --

We have military laws against torture --

Human rights laws against torture --

Constitutional rights against being tortured --

UN rights against torture --

[Luminous Animal]

41. He himself, in the chat logs with Lamo (the logs that govt. used to arrest him)

says that he did it for the public good (and yes, he is being tortured):
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/07/07/did-adrian-lamo-have-two-days-worth-of-ims-with-bradley-manning-on-may-25/

(02:19:19 PM) Manning: sounds pretty bad huh?
(02:20:06 PM) Lamo: kinda :x
(02:20:25 PM) Manning: :L
(02:20:52 PM) Lamo: i mean, for the .mil
(02:21:08 PM) Manning: well, it SHOULD be better
(02:21:32 PM) Manning: its sad
(02:22:47 PM) Manning: i mean what if i were someone more malicious
(02:23:25 PM) Manning: i could’ve sold to russia or china, and made bank?
(02:23:36 PM) Lamo: why didn’t you?
(02:23:58 PM) Manning: because it’s public data
(02:24:15 PM) Lamo: i mean, the cables
(02:24:46 PM) Manning: it belongs in the public domain
(02:25:15 PM) Manning: information should be free
(02:25:39 PM) Manning: it belongs in the public domain

Part 2 (underlined)/Part 5 continued


(02:26:01 PM) Manning: i dont believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… i only a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
(02:26:18 PM) Manning: s/only/only see/
(02:26:18 PM) Manning: because another state would just take advantage of the information… try and get some edge
(02:26:47 PM) Lamo: the tm meant i was being facetious
(02:26:55 PM) Manning: if its out in the open… it should be a public good
(02:26:59 PM) Manning: gotchya
(02:27:04 PM) Manning: *do the
(02:27:23 PM) Manning: rather than some slimy intel collector

[sabrina 1]

44. So sad that his time in the military, the witnessing of war crimes

in action which he tried to stop, caused him have to face such a horrible reality that there 'are no good guys versus bad guys anymore'.

He is a good guy. That is for sure. And in this country we lock up the good guys and give medals of honor to torturers. Too bad he didn't know that before he risked everything to try to do the right thing.

As for Lamo, what a sad, sick tool he is.

[Hippo_Tron]

58. Umm anybody who has taken International Relations 101 knows that...

The first thing they teach you is that the predominant paradigm in IR theory is Realism, where every state acts in its own interest above everything else.

[sabrina 1]

62. What does that mean to you 'every state acts in its own interests'?

Did you know about the U.S. torture policies eg? How is that in this state's interests?

Illegal invasions, is that in this state's interests?

Covering up war crimes, is that in this state's interests?

Explain how torture, and covering up war crimes and illegal invasions of other countries, killing journalists etc are in our interests?

Is all that part of 'International Relations 101'?

[Hippo_Tron]

67. In fact that is all part of IR 101

Any norms against things like torture, "war crimes", and "illegal invasions", are all artificial constructions that were created by international agreements after World War II and are supposed to be enforced by international institutions like the UN. Realists believe that states are the predominant actors and that the international system exists in anarchy. The UN is not a world government and has no power to stop states from doing what they want to do. Only another state or a combination of states that are willing and able can stop a state from doing these things.

[sabrina 1]

75. Someone should have told the young, idealistic Manning that

before he signed up for the military then. I doubt he would have.

So, everything we have been told about this country is a lie? We are basically nothing but a third world dictatorship spouting words like 'freedom' while in reality we are torturers, plunderers, rapists and mass murderers and it's all okay because some analysts somewhere say we have the right to do these things. The laws against all of this, are a farce, just for show?

Why keep up the show then? We all know now there is no rule of law here. I guess Manning was naive to believe the propaganda that we were the good guys. But how could he have known when on top of being murderers and torturers we are also excellent liars?

Thanks for the lesson. I'll remember it.

[defendandprotect]

81. Too long since our nation has heard words, ideas, concepts of justice --

those who speak over the past decades are those who debase and destroy,

especially justice.

[Knight Hawk]

84. Definitely makes us cynical...............

Just make sure YOU have some sort of power to get what you need to survive and keep the "bad guys" away.Maybe Mao was right "all power comes from the end of a gun".

[BOHICA12]

90. Talk to his Dad about that one ....

... he is one cold tool!

[Hippo_Tron]

94. You're assuming that this is about normative judgments rather than observational ones

I'm not saying it's alright nor intrinsically good for states to do these things. What I am saying is that they do them, and international agreements have been powerless to stop them.

The bottom line is that Manning didn't need to witness atrocities to figure out that there are no "good guys and bad guys". There are just states and they are all self interested. We're not a third world dictatorship but every nation democracy or dictatorship, rich or poor, mighty or weak, acts in its own self interest and violates international norms when it's convenient for them to do so and they can get away with it.

[sabrina 1]

100. Well, I have no problem with states acting in their own interests

and I doubt Manning was talking about that.

You haven't addressed the question of how committing and then covering up war crimes, serves the interests of a state. I believe that is what he was talking about.

He reported torture, he was ignored. At that point he must have realized that his superiors were covering it up. Maybe he figured out that they would not have wanted to confirm the rumors that the U.S. trained Iraqi police actually WERE brutally torturing people. And he realized that his superiors, believing it was in the best interests of the state, were willing to ignore war crimes.

[Enthusiast]

111. Own self interest = military industrial complex.

And the petroleum industry, of course.

[Amonester]

98. States are full of liars (on all sides) and they are far from being excellent.

In fact, anyone who pays attention knows they are bad liars, but the only thing that rules is, you guessed it, MONEY (BIG money, that is, because small money doesn't get anywhere).

Reality is a big nightmare, isn't it.

[Enthusiast]

110. Realists = fascists.

The world used to think of us as the good guys, mostly. Since Bush and now Obama, not so much.

[Hippo_Tron]

133. Umm no Realists do not equal fascists by any stretch of the imagination

And this period of the US being viewed as the "good guys" by the rest of the world lasted for a few years after World War II at the most. If you ask somebody from Iran or Guatamela who was alive at the time, they will probably tell you that they haven't viewed the US as the good guys since the 1950's when the US overthrew their democratically elected governments. And if you think we only started committing atrocities during Bush's wars, read up on Bob Kerrey's experiences in Vietnam.

[Enthusiast]

135. I was referring to your use of realists

in the context of your previous post. I do not believe in giving torture a pass by saying, "Oh, heck we have done it many times in the past, no big deal." Bush & Cheney should be hung by the neck until dead.

I know all about Vietnam and I do not need Bob Kerry's experiences to convince me. And I understand U.S. abuses around the world throughout the cold war. But in general, outside the banana republics, the U.S. was considered the good guys by our own citizens and much of the world. I believe we should STRIVE to be the good guys. I believe we should seek to not stray outside of "good guy" status. But that's just me.

[defendandprotect]

68. Great questions .... which we little challenge ourselves with ---

Sadly, I think what's "understood" is that we are talking about corrupt government --

corrupt regimes -- but it's not being said. And we don't correct it --

[sabrina 1]

82. Yes, but it seems that many people are accepting of the way

things are. Almost proud in a perverse way to point out how naive someone like Manning was, and us I guess, to believe we were better than that. They seem to get a kick out of pointing out how stupid he was, at such a young age too, not to have known that we are torturers and killers and to try to do something about it. This is the attitude that bothers me, especially on the left where I thought we were different.

So, without any expectation that we are better than that, a cynical acceptance that we are not, where do we go from there? Seems to me maybe if everyone believes what was just said to me below, the best thing would be to leave this country and go to a better place. I am told Manning was wrong to expect anything better. How could he have known? Did anyone tell him?

[defendandprotect]

91. Thanks again for everything you are saying -- k/r --

You're taxing my grey matter tonight -- it's late -- and I don't think I exactly made clear

your post was fantastic.

Re this one -- also agree -- "know nothing's" -- but I have some sympathy because they haven't

heard any voices lately calling them to anything but to not think for themselves and to embrace

nonsense!!

Also agree, unusual high stupidity to gloat at the corruption of our own government!

And I don't really know anything about Manning, but he seems highly intelligent and I imagine

that he knew military code -- and the dangers for himself. And, again, knowning nothing about

him, just have the feeling that like many other whisteblowers he sacrificed himself to try to

right injustice. Don't think that's a point the "know nothing's" want to get.

[Hippo_Tron]

95. You clearly missed a key part of Manning's discovery if you think we can pack up and leave

"(02:26:01 PM) Manning: i dont believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… i only a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless"

Manning didn't discover that the United States was a state acting in its own self interest. He discovered that EVERY state is like this. The problem isn't the United States. The problem is that human beings do terrible things to each other in the context of war and have been doing it since the beginning of humanity.

As for what we do about it, I'd say that the first step to rehabilitation is admitting you have a problem.

[sabrina 1]

101. Yes, I see that. But I think he thought that we were different,

that we were the good guys. He was probably taught that. Then he found out that we are not, anything but. He does acknowledge that these states have 'varying ethics and moral standards ...'

But yes, war is terrible, and human beings do do terrible things to each other in times of war. I think he really believed the 'honor and integrity' mantra though. Look at all the war movies we have made. We never see the good guys torturing anyone. We see them rescuing people from torturers and we stand up and cheer proudly because 'that is who we are'. I imagine he was raised believing those fairy tales. His father is a military man.

And since he appears to possess both qualities himself, he probably assumed that his superiors did.

As far as what to do, I don't think America is ready to admit to its problems. Like Manning before going to Iraq, too many of us still believe we are the good guys.

[snot]

60. Thank you. Manning IS a hero. The chat logs also show . . .

he knew he was risking his life. He's one of too few answering to the highest ideals.

Also, his action was required by international law under treaties to which the US is a signatory.

"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of leaders . . . . and millions have been killed because of this obedience . . . . "
– Howard Zinn, Failure to Quit (South End Press, 2002; originally published 1993)

[defendandprotect]

73. We protect the torturer rather than the whistleblower -- sad to say ...

Also, his action was required by international law under treaties to which the US is a signatory.

"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of leaders . . . . and millions have been killed because of this obedience . . . . "
– Howard Zinn, Failure to Quit (South End Press, 2002; originally published 1993)


Thank you!

[defendandprotect]

64. Isolation is, of course, torture --

"The healthy person doesn't torture others.

Generally, it's the tortured who turn into torturers." C.G. Jung



The Trauma of Psychological Torture

http://www.abc-clio.com/product.aspx?id=55694


Torture Is Now Part of the American Soul

You might have imagined that every possible means of inflicting pain had already been devised. But never underestimate the human capacity for invention. United States interrogators have found a new way of destroying a human being.


http://www.alternet.org/rights/45613/?comments=view&cID=398693&pID=398479

[rhett o rick]

78. Your belief that your government will tell you the truth is sickening. nm

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

85. not a hero. broke the law. and what i have read. not torture. nt

[sabrina 1]

87. MLK broke the law. The Founding Fathers REALLY broke the law.

Are they not heroes? What laws did he break? His oath demanded that he not follow illegal orders and that he fight enemies, domestic and foreign.

Trying to stop torture which is breaking the law, is not breaking the law. It is whistle-blowing. Manning tried to stop law breaking. He was told to STFU. Daniel Ellsberg also broke the law. The courts ruled he was justified in doing so. Back then many people wanted him executed also. The courts disagreed.

Maybe the laws need to be changed. Or maybe we just need to restore the rule of law. If the law was being enforced in Iraq, Manning would not have had to do what he did. Has anyone else been arrested for breaking the law? The War Logs eg, revealed lots of law-breaking, but so far, no one has been arrested for those crimes. Are we being selective about 'breaking the law'?

And what you read is incorrect, he is being tortured. Of course we 'discuss' now what is torture and what is not. We are very pragmatic about torture since the Bush era. Dick Cheney says waterboarding is not torture.

According to the Geneva Conventions, Manning IS being tortured.

[defendandprotect]

92. +1000% -- and as MLK, Jr. made clear ... everything Hitler did was legal -- !!

Conveniently arranged by corruption of their courts and Nuremberg Laws --

and Judges willing to enforce them!!

Nice post -- !!


:)

[Enthusiast]

113. Great response! nt

[blackspade]

127. Thanks Captain Law and Order.

Why don't you volunteer to be kept in isolation for almost a year and they we will see how you feel...if your still sane.

[blackspade]

126. Blah, blah, blah....

Same tired memo, new person spouting it.

Perhaps you should do some more reading about the Bradley Manning case.

[lynne]

45. Did they tweet that the arrests were because protesters were in the road and wouldn't move?

because that's what our local paper is reporting.

http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2011/mar/20/2/hundreds-rally-quantico-suspected-wikileaks-whistl-ar-916404/

I support their right to protest but do not support them creating a hazard, backing up traffic and blocking our roads.

[Luminous Animal]

56. The roads were closed to traffic. That fact was mentioned in the article.

[defendandprotect]

76. Protests are about moving people to think about what's going on ....

if all that you come away from this with is that it was an "inconvenience"

that may have caused some unknown "hazard," then you might just as well not

support anyone's right to protest --

[sabrina 1]

86. You mean 'inconvenience'. God forbid Americans should be

inconvenienced when all we are talking about is our Constitutional rights. What hazard are you taking about? Were they armed and dangerous? Were they attacking passers-by? Explain please.

What do you suggest we do to get this government to start restoring the rule of law? Where in the Constitution does it say that our right to peaceably assemble means we have to ask for a permit? We have to make sure no one is inconvenienced?

Give me some ideas of how the people can get the attention of their government without it being a bit inconvenient at times?

[defendandprotect]

93. +1000% --- I've read that interference with the right to free assembly...

was a last straw or trigger for the revolution --

But excellent point on "inconvenience" -- elites play to that --

last time that happened the Air Traffic Controller's were fired -- and they were fighting for

improvements to systems which keep air travel safe!!


RW propaganda never misses!!

[ProgressIn2008]

47. K&R

[kas125]

51. One of those arrested was Ann Wright. I just read this on

facebook, from a very reliable source - "Ann Wright was thrown to the ground by Virginia State Police as she was standing peacefully waiting to be arrested outside of Quantico Marine Base where Bradley Manning is being held in solitary confinement."

[defendandprotect]

79. "thrown to the ground by VA state police -- while standing peacefully waiting to be arrested" --

[madmax]

52. Ann Wright

http://www.voicesofconscience.com/

[defendandprotect]

57. kr

[SpiralHawk]

59. The k and the r

Snap out of it, Obama -- or you are totally losing your base...

[orbitalman]

83. K & R

[bertman]

88. Ann Wright THROWN TO THE GROUND by Virginia State Police. WTF??

That is absolutely CRIMINAL if it is true.

I met Colonel Ann Wright on Friday night. She is a gentle lady in her early 60's. She impressed me as being a fine human being who advocates peaceful, non-violent resistance to unlawful military actions. I can't even imagine anything that she would have done to deserve being assaulted for non-violent protest.

I hope this is wrong about her being mistreated, but I would not be surprised if this were the case.

[kas125]

96. It was posted on facebook by Desiree, whom I trust implicitly

to tell the truth. Ya know, this Desiree -

[kas125]

97. I've met her several times, too, and I know some of her

close friends personally. I was with her during the RNC in St. Paul when the cops suddenly went nuts and attacked the Poor People's March. Ann was the one warning us about where to stand to be safe, she was worrying about everyone else and making sure people remained calm. I've seen first hand the way she reacts to police and violence and I would bet my last dollar and every dollar I'm likely to have in the future that she did absolutely nothing to provoke them.

[pam4water]

89. K&R

[Enthusiast]

102. There is zero

justification for the level of militarization in the U.S.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But what in the name of God justifies this level of spending in the face of cuts to education and medical care? There is no justification for it. None! Threats to this nation are mostly made-up contrived bullshit. Exaggerated threats might work with ignorant Tea baggers but they do not work with us.

Every DUer, and everyone they know, should write their congressman and President to let them know that we are on to their bullshit. These wars are a complete waste and counterproductive and we know it!

Not one more dime should be spent on these lies. Military spending should be cut to 1/4 of its present level. And THAT would still be way too much.

[spooked911]

128. there mass arrests (113 anti-war protestors) at the whitehouse on saturday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leLgyzpDEtc

[DirkGently]

129. Good. Polite letters & e-mails don't seem to be making an impression. Perhaps this will.