We are entering the "you can't touch me you poor fuckers" phase of capitalism

[salinen]

The arrogance of the powerful is on high. There is no need to pretend or defend that lifestyle, so now they can do and say whatever they wish. I don't have illusions that our lives are of no consequence to them. I really think there's much contempt for us commoners, as we are witnessing with the Republican Governors and the Teabaggers. Why should they hold back? They've fortified their positions and so far, there is no counter force that would threaten them.

The powerful purchased The United States of America. The strategy worked. Tax only the middle class and poor, start unnecessary wars, bankrupt the federal and state governments, and voila, the corporations run the show. There is no republican party, only corporate officers who won elections. And the dems are barely better.

So fuck it, the experiment known as democracy has a 250 year shelf life. After that it descends into fascism. Is that not the direction we're headed?

[madokie]

1. With all due respect to the founding fathers

our democracy is dead. it died when the fourth leg of the stool was taken over by the corporations and special interest

[salinen]

5. as a door nail

This snowball only stops at revolution.

[madokie]

32. As much as I hate to think it

I think you may very well be correct.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

3. Well, this strain of democracy, at any rate. The social strain of it seems to be working...

...quite well in other parts of the world.

NGU.

[salinen]

4. And that is encouraging

The United States is becomming an example of how not to run a country.

[bobbolink]

25. Which means that we have a responsibility to strongly warn them of corporatism.

[wurzel]

6. A side effect of the collapse of Communism.

When Capitalists had Communism to fear they had to behave themselves and ironically had to deal with competition in the form of an alternative economic system. Once Communism collapsed the Capitalists reverted to their true nature.

[MedicalAdmin]

42. RU kidding? Capitalists LOVE communism.

One word: china.

[Hannah Bell]

69. china is communist? who knew.

[MedicalAdmin]

113. The large pools of slave labor drew capitalists like flies to shit.

I get your point that china is communist / Marxist in name only. But even so they still claim to be communist / Maoist. Much like the capitalist claim to democratic, no?

[Enthusiast]

96. China is not an example of communism.

Geesh.

[MedicalAdmin]

112. It isn't? Thats news to Mao

Bwahahahaha.

[Enthusiast]

115. Mao is dead and so is Chinese communism. nt

[MedicalAdmin]

121. Joke - whoosh.

[Marr]

63. I agree completely.

Once the Soviet Union was no longer a factor, our system began divesting itself of all the window dressing. It's been a very rapid transformation and I don't think it's close to finished.

[bullimiami]

7. Bush proved it. Start war, torture, murder, loot country. Go home and enjoy retirement.

[salinen]

8. Bush sealed it

he despised the lower classes.

[MissDeeds]

51. There is no lower class than Bush

[Enthusiast]

97. PLUS ONE! nt

[sendero]

9. "Headed"?

We're there. The banks just bankrupted the country and they are getting saved at the expense of the innocent.

It right in everyone's face and not one thing has been done or is going to be done. Fascism. Here. Now.

[salinen]

11. Yes

but some here think calling America Fascist is hyperbole. Not me, and not you. In fact, America is a classic example of Fascism. Now, the only choice will be revolution. Now that's some fancy hyperbole.

[notesdev]

70. we get slapped in the face with it all the time

there's no more essentially fascist institution than a central bank, and ours blew a major hole in the economy with reckless serial bubble blowing, aka asset stripping the plebes

at a certain point there's no more flesh to cut and the knife hits bone

[dotymed]

91. I think the banksters

are going to do it again, soon. The LAST BIG HURRAH, and America will have NO HOPE of recovery. They will take their ill-gotten gains, cash them in for Euros (or whatever is more stable, gold?) because our currency will be worthless.
Our WALL STREET GOVERNMENT will be enabling them all the way. Many of the wealthier ones will desert the sinking ship along with the elites.

[Enthusiast]

98. And how are they carrying this off?

No prosecutions of Wall Street fraud and no prosecutions or investigations into widespread malfeasance by the previous administration. They are achieving this through help from the Obama Administration. The DOJ is on 'their' side, they are assisting the criminals in their crimes.

[felix_numinous]

10. I have to believe that decline

is followed by some sort of renaissance, a rebuilding. I think that on some level most people 'get' that, but not everyone has the same vision of the future. The hoarders have been consolidating power, money and influence, while those left have to adopt cooperative survival instincts and create alliances to find their power.

How much influence will the giant consolidated powers have over the future, and how much influence will creative cooperative efforts have? It seems that people are only beginning to realize how powerful cooperative efforts can be to balance the scales of influence in the world. As soon as people put their petty differences aside and work together, then watch what happens. If propaganda were interrupted.

[defendandprotect]

15. How is it that the GOP voting computers aren't a concern for the Democratic Party???

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=744903&mesg_id=745646

[Taverner]

49. Because they give predictable results

Ask any accountant - would they rather have a sudden good year? Or would they rather have a moderate predictable one?

Nine times out of ten they choose the predictable one

[kimsarah]

67. Yep

Besides the owning the judges, that's their ace in the hole. That might contribute to some of the smugness.

[bluestate10]

78. You are really hung up on the cheating computer thing.

The solution is local action to take over election boards, town halls and city councils. As long as republicans put energy and money into winning the local level and our side talks about election cheating, our side will continue to get defeated and obstructed. Please don't take this as a personal attack, you and me have clashed before. But you often write long flowery screeds that completely miss the point and are often devoid of solutions. Given our vastly opposite view on political problems and how to solve them, I am sure that I often write posts that make your head explode as you see in them complete inaneness. The conquest of republicans will come when our side (and I do feel that we ARE on the same side, even as we vastly disagree), utilize the tool of local action to re-take offices that republicans have focused on holding for the greater part of four decades. We have better citizen numbers and better, more humane societal ideas.

On a personal note. If you are reading this, I admire you for not putting a person that you vastly disagree with and likely will continue to disagree with on Ignore, that is the wrong way to handle the issue.

[Enthusiast]

103. She only argues with you because

you are nearly ALWAYS WRONG on every issue.

The voting machines are not tamper proof! If the sanctity of our vote is not secure nothing else we do makes a damned bit of difference.

[Enthusiast]

100. THAT is a damned good question.

I was wondering that after the 2008 election when we had majorities.

[jwirr]

17. I also think that oil depletion and climate change will work for the

cooperatives better than it will for the corporations. Cooperatives are usually local.

[Duer 157099]

28. Great angle, and how ironic. And probably true.

The vast corporatocracy will grind to a halt when the supply of fossil fuels is depleated. And they have no alternative.

[janet118]

58. Then we should start organizing them . . .

yesterday.

[bluestate10]

81. Exactly. Build strong local enterprises, shut out profit only minded big companies. nt

[cyberpj]

33. "If propaganda were interrupted. " We thought we could do that with the Internet but they caught on

quickly and both corrupted and are working on takeover of that as well.

We have no hope but, dare I say it in these words, a peoples revolution. Which MAY happen when Hispanics realize their power in things now but bloated old white men saw that coming which is why they're taking everything they can get their hands on, on the way out.

Now that we have our very own type of it here in the US, rich vs poor, perhaps we should study how apartheid was toppled.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

94. SO TRUE

[felix_numinous]

117. True, we could benefit studying South America

and South Africa. I think people have been waiting for another FDR but what happened to JFK and MLK was a message with what happens to someone who goes off the program. I really think that this establishment cannot change from within, not completely--waiting for a superhero to rescue us will not work. There has to be a massive overhaul in nearly every branch of the government.

I agree the people have to stand up--looking ahead to the 2012 election--will we insist on countable ballots to START with?

I saw a wall writing form Egypt that says, 'They have the guns, but we have the numbers'.

Peace to you.

[blindpig]

12. The only change is in the facade

They've been running the show all along but apparently discretion is no longer a priority. Arrogance probably has something to do with it but mostly it is necessity. Capitalism is breaking down under it's own weight, each crisis is worst than the last. There must be profitable investment or the system breaks down. Manufacturing is less profitable as competition drags down profits so money is put into sketchy scams, S&Ls, housing, derivatives, which inevitably pop in the sun. Government conspires with the health industry to lock in those profits and education is a new, promising cash cow, as are prisons. When all else fails have your captive politicians act as enforcers to collect the over-reaching loans you made. They will never entirely run out of options, but they're getting thin and the inherent tendency towards monopoly will increase.

They are nervous and will act like savage beasts when their status quo is threatened, see Libya. Push come to shove we will be treated with the same regard. The only thing to be done is to make their fear real.

[stockholmer]

39. +1000 one of best succinct replies I have read on here in my time around these regions

:thumbsup:

[Scruffy1]

50. You go to the head of the class.

I think Zizek's "Living in The End Times" has it about right.

[blindpig]

122. That's one crazy SOB...

but it doesn't mean that he isn't right.

[Blecht]

87. this is worthy of its own thread

excellent response

[Initech]

13. No the direction we're headed in is economic terrorism.

[salinen]

22. A rose is a rose

economic terrorism = fascism.

[MrMickeysMom]

104. +1

It started there and so far, they have us by the short hairs...

Caveat - Buy Silver... if you can (don't worry, I can't either!)

[defendandprotect]

14. Truly OUTLAW government -- government by organized crime 'n organized criminals ....

We have to find a way to pick up what's left of the Dem party and walk off with

it -- we can't depend upon elected officials who are pre-bribed and pre-owned

by corporations to do what's right for the general welfare -- especially when

these millionaires and multi-millionaires have control of the tax codes!!


The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414



And, don't think we can do it while voting on computers --

How is it that the GOP voting computers are of such great concern to all of us yet our

Democratic Party has completely ignored them for more than a dozen years?

How is that?


It's not only the voting computers -- it's also the LARGE computers used by corporate-press/MSM

which came in during the mid-1960's and gave them new powers to PREDICT and CALL elections --

Electoral College votes -- PREDICT and CALL winners and losers -- even presidents!

What we saw in 2000 was simply a REVERSAL of those new powers!


Two journalists in Florida in the late 1960's began to question the odd and unsubstantiated

votes reported after computers came in there --

They wrote a book which is available here and there for $3 --

can and read at the family website --

Votescam -- The Stealing of America

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[Zorra]

16. Is this our "Let them eat cake" moment?

I'm ready. Let's go.

[Initech]

46. We already had that. It was the Tyco/Enron/Adelphia era.

Remember the lavish birthday party Dennis Koczwalski threw for his wife in Greece where they drank vodka out of an anatomically correct ice sculpture of David? That was our "let them eat cake" moment.

[Jester Messiah]

18. We need to prove them wrong on that.

It's high time we reached out and "touched" a few of these powerful, unaccountable bastards. Make 'em take notice that they're still made of mortal clay, maybe they'll start to consider whether or not the benefit to their economic bottom line is worth the risk.

[salinen]

23. That's

what I'm thinking too.

[stockholmer]

48. huge barrier to overcome is your 2 party-dominated false paradigm, the systemic controllers just...

sit back and play the tried-and-true old game of 'let's you and him fight'.

This political dualism is a reverted form of pure tribalism, ergo, many (in the USA, due to its huge size you are talking tens of millions) people who have huge common cause with others on the truly gravity-laden issues (ie. the wars of empire bankrupting the state, the absolute loss of your constitutionally enshrined civil liberties, the crushing debasement of your dollar, the plunge in public health due to a synthetically altered diet full of toxins, carcinogens, GMO's, synthetic sugars such as the horrific Aspartame, etc etc etc)....... simply will not get over the ideological divide that is exploited and magnified by a '2 choice only and out' system.

Black and white (no grey allowed), us vs them, right or wrong, win or die, all or nothing, bigger is better, my way or the highway, etc etc. are all, by either organic structural confluence, or IMHO by cold hard psychological design, so ingrained through the mass-media bathed zeitgeist that any partial unity of resistance to the controlling oligarchy will never hit the tipping point in a manner that most hope for.

When peaceful attempts at change are blocked, violent change attempts are inevitable, and the overlords have been been preparing for this for decades. Even your local police forces are paramilitary at multiple levels, in many cases outright, in others by the sheer force of their numbers who were honed at their 'craft' in the myriad empiric battle theatres of the last 20+ years.

The DHS/NSA/FBI enforcement complex, the rapidly privatized, for-profit profit prison schema, the track/trace/database technetronic web that has been slowly, ruthlessly lowered, the mass-paranoia of so-called terrorism that encourages a 'see-something-say-something' culture of neighborly distrust that has arisen would make the Stasi proud.

[Le Taz Hot]

79. +1

Excellent analysis (and writing, I might add).

May I offer one of my favorites?

Politics is a bunch of show and blow for people who don't understand.
Nov. 1979 - quoted in Relix Magazine

The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre.

(We) like to talk about (or be told about) democracy but, when put to the test, usually find it to be an inconvenience. We have opted instead for an authoritarian system disguised as a democracy. We pay through the nose for an enormous joke-of-a-government, let it push us around, and then wonder how all those assholes got in there.
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry.

http://www.conservativeforum.org/authquot.asp?ID=522

[bluestate10]

84. Lots of charges, no solutions. Typical.

Your screed completely ignores the lessons being learned from the current happenings in north Africa. When people talk to each other and share common purpose they conquer abusive governments, even with those governments having overwhelming police forces and spies in every village. Coincidentally, the technetronic web that you lampooned made conquest of totalitarian governments easier than if that tool did not exist.

[dotymed]

101. Multi-Party politics would be great for America.

It works well in almost all other civilized nations (they have universal health care also)
Any realistic, viable, non-violent idea on how we might start multiple parties? It would probably mean an end to the "Electoral College." I'd bet there are many people here who have no clue about the "Electoral College", that actually picks our President (unless the SCOTUS does). We have to have an, at least nationwide "Constitutional Congress" (for lack of a better term) to strategize and implement actions as well as to decide (through compromise) what path our NEW party will take (people before profit, I hope) and how to completely change the current paradigm.
Skype is one tool at our disposal. Revolutionary elected citizens (NOT OFFICIALS), ideally would conduct and compromise per their constituents requests, on this new paradigm. Whether or not SKYPE is used, we must realize that we will constantly be spied upon. There are too many ways available to the status quo to realistically believe otherwise. Even (often especially) the most peaceful organizations are. Maybe some of our young IT citizens could hamper this.
The American Revolution had a great advantage by not living in the "communication age." England was accessible only by long sea voyages, which gave our founders much needed "clueless" time to implement decisions.
We ALL must decide for ourselves whether we will remain loyal to the status quo, or seek a new direction (as outlined in the constitution), either way IMO we can only resist peacefully, (some covert shenanigans always happen), because our America has the most powerful military in the world. We are clueless about many of their technological advances.
We are also a "police state" although after a time we will gain converts.
I am NOT trying to subvert our government. I am hoping, through citizen participation, to improve and expand our political choices.

[tonybgood]

114. Multi-Party politics would be great for America

I have a realistic, viable, non-violent idea. Let's stop allowing political parties to put their interests in getting re-elected before the interests of the country. No elected official should ever serve long enough to earn a pension. Term limits on Congress. If you have ever worked for the government, you cannot lobby the government. Want to stop corruption? Don't allow elected officials enough time to get "connected". Members of Congress are sent to represent their district and what's best for the country, not what get's them elected 10 times and earns them a lifetime government pension and free health care!!! The recent vote on keeping the tax cuts for the rich? Isn't that the same as voting themselves a pay raise? I thought that congress could not vote themselves a pay raise and have it in the same term? That's my 1st idea: term limits for Congress.
The second idea is much like the first. Simplify the tax code. $10,000 personal exemption. Married -$20,000. 1 child - $30,000. 2 children $40,000. Maximum allowance. $40,000 to 250,000 - 10%. Every dollar earned from $250,000 to $1,000,000. - 15%. 1 million to 10 million - 20% 11 million to 100 million 25%. 100 million and up 30%. No other deductions. Taxes will be simple, transparent and easy to enforce. Business taxes can be done the same way.
Next idea - single payer health care. This one is a no-brainer. All the money spent on health care now is being wasted on paperwork and profit. A person's health is not an "economic" matter because it is priceless. Ask a parent what they wouldn't spend to have their child healed. Since it can't be priced, it is immoral for someone who does not participate in the care of the sick and injured to make a profit from it. This also frees business up from the burden of providing health care plans and let's them get back to their business.
Implement these 3 ideas and new possibilities for growth emerge.

[Enthusiast]

105. We are being played.

No question about it. They continue this through subtle and not so subtle manipulation of media messages.

[Ilsa]

34. It may be the onlyway to restore democracy. nt

[Buns_of_Fire]

43. I'm all for seeing the Fear of God put into them.

Piss off a couple hundred million people long enough, and these people won't dare leave their gated communities without an armed escort.

If the Kochs and their ilk are that damned determined to turn the U.S. into a third-world country, they shouldn't be surprised when some decidedly third-world conditions arise for them, too.

[bluestate10]

86. You describe the end game for the rich. The Kochs and their like

live in a fantasy world where they view the world from gated communities and ultra private golf courses. Those fucking gates will be kicked in and their ilk dragged over the downed metal if enough citizens are forced into economic depravity. The rich that do have a balanced view see the danger to their way of life, but that group does not include asses like the two ultra right Koch brothers.

[MedicalAdmin]

45. Google this phrase. Operation hammer of god.

And then think about the possibilities.

[stockholmer]

118. all I found-video games, Maccabees,neo-Nazi, pro-life rant, and sci-fi book about redireted asteroid

Am I missing something?

:shrug:

[MedicalAdmin]

120. Here's a link.

My bad. That's operation wrath of god.

Sorry about that . Here's the link. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wrath_of_God

[bluestate10]

82. I agree. Boycott their products, buy alternatives that reflect our values.

Money talks, we must learn to make it talk for our side.

[leeroysphitz]

88. Wish I knew how. n/t

[dotymed]

92. How?

I don't know, unless the masses will participate, what to do. Maybe you're thinking along the lines of all the accidents that befell micro-biologists a few years back?
I am not advocating anything, but if that were to happen, it would take quite a few.............

[chaska]

19. 200, not 250.

[salinen]

24. 1776 to 2011

No?

[think4yourself]

40. Yes.

I guess it started after JFK but the final nail in the coffin was September 11th. For EVERY reason.

[HughBeaumont]

20. Actually we CAN touch them.

We, The People just haven't seemed to figure that little fact out yet.

[Historic NY]

37. Well the right would say 2nd amendment.....

perhaps we should use the playbook they wrote against them. It would scare the crap out of them.

[bluestate10]

89. The solution is to figure out products that people like the Kochs sell and

boycott them. Buy alternatives. I saw a post the other night by a person whose family depends on income from working for Georgia Pacific. The person's concern was that a boycott would encourage the Kochs to fire union GP workers and move work to non-union shops or off-shore. My response is that while I sympathize with the short-term discomfort the person my encounter, the longer term would be better if the Kochs are forced to sell GP to ethical capitalists that deal with unions firmly, but fairly and above board. If the Kochs remove union jobs from GP, a boycott strangle hold should be tightened and expanded to all of their other businesses.

A word of warning to those boycotting. Be aware of the sources of generic products, you may be unintentionally putting money into the pockets of the Koch brothers and companies like SC Johnson. Know where the products you buy come from and who makes them. There are excellent alternatives out there, you need to research and find the one best suited for you. Press forward hard and relentlessly, force the Kochs to sell companies like GP to good capitalists and punish them financially if they damage GP unions.

[TheKentuckian]

108. I wish it was but today is not 20 or 30 years ago.

We are past that now. Those whose products we buy are now willfully working to literally defund us. They also have a model which our side supported should their need for consumers rise beyond the present reckoning and they can just seek mandates and incentives for certain products to be purchased as a condition of employment.

Even many "liberals" have decided the Commerce Clause gives the government the ability to compel the purchase of employer selected for profit goods and products sold on the market. There is nothing to stop the company stores from coming back and dominating, if they are needed.

Which they probably don't but that door is open a few years out. They need only a lil incentive and the people will bear it. Just pretend it is a benefit.

[Starry Messenger]

21. They've always been like this.

It's just starting to creep into more people's daily existence here. Just think of what they've been doing overseas for decades. There is no earthly reason for them to not do it here too now. Who is stopping them?

[salinen]

26. exactly

they've terrorized the world, and we think they'd treat us differently?

[BeHereNow]

36. As a matter of fact, yes- the Americans did indeed think they were "special."

You know me- I've been shouting that fact since I first joined DU
ten years ago.

We are collectively, the most arrogant and ignorant, sense of entitlement
ass holes to ever walk the earth.
We stood by for decades while our "government" destroyed cultures and economies
around the planet.

We didn't really want to know the sordid details about it, because it was
all in our "national interest."

Our culture and media fostered the "Aren't we special?" atmosphere
of "I don't need to think about THOSE people, I'm an American!"

The result of this narcissistic collective madness completely blocked out
any sense of reality or awareness that the people committing atrocities
around the world, in our names, would one day do the same to us.
How COULD they? We are so very SPECIAL.

The bright side is this-
Know that the very people who called us "conspiracy theorists"
are going down shoulder to shoulder with us.
WE tried to warn them- they were too busy shopping at the mall
for shit they did not need with money they did not have.

Fuck 'em.
They voted for this shit.

BHN

[jwirr]

61. You just made me think of the book "The Ugly American". That is

what that author was trying to tell us way back in the early 60s. I still have my copy.

[gtar100]

73. It's been the playbook for thousands of years. Consider these folks:

The pharaohs- they thought themselves to be gods
The Chinese emperors - divine consecration for them as well
The Roman emperors - demanded to be worshipped as gods
The Mayan rulers - yes, the god-complex again.

When they could no longer be gods, they settled in to be kings and queens and the whole cast of royalty.

I'm sure being a democratically elected representative of the people was a bit of a let-down for such types.

So instead they build corporations and financial empires with a class structure modeled after the forms of aristocracy that used to exist. Then they wield that power to break the people's government.

And the only thing standing between them and absolute power is the union of the people - labor unions. Mightier than the gods of wealth, unions are able to cut these mainlining corporatists off from their source. Unions can bring down their kingdoms and empires like no other power.

What they don't get is that most people will settle for a good, decent life that doesn't come close to decadence. All they need to do is ensure the flow of goods and services and the financing of progress towards a vision of sustainability and prosperity for the earth and they can live fancy lives. But they got greedy and arrogant and the people are now suffering because of their crimes. That is the terrible mistake they made and now the end is visible for them as well. Their end is inevitable and hastened by their arrogance and short-sightedness because that's what happens time after time throughout history.

[dotymed]

110. But, whatever their means of control, the fact is

that ordinary citizens must be able to live a fulfilling life. Not one of suffering and sacrifice for their(the elite's) benefit. Yes, types of "governments" have changed but along with that change is the needed change that puts ordinary citizens in a class of people who unquestionably are allowed to enjoy their lives. Not in the "hereafter" but NOW.
Honestly, who knows about what happens when we die, it is at least a "crap-shoot."
This is the only life that we KNOW for certain that we will ever be able to "exist."
We must demand the changes for this life time.
Carpe Diem (seize the day), all citizens of the world and put an end to the Diefication of the "haves" and the way over the top, indulgent, lifestyle they enjoy.
They are not better than us!
They are more ruthless and do not respect (for the most part) our RIGHT to enjoy this life as much as they are able to.
Can't you see the insanity in that?
WE ARE ALL EQUALS. Not some more "equal" than others, based on their money, power, contacts or anything else.

[Snoutport]

27. we can stand against it...

every way we can. boycott, protest, stand en masse and block their way if nothing else.

[felix_numinous]

29. The wrong people are behind bars too--

Empty the jails of all non violent, non dangerous individuals and there will be plenty of room for the white collar criminals. Then we can get some real work done, and reclaim our 'missing" trillions. To start with:


War profiteers---out of the equation, the military can be used to build and protect the innocent like they should be doing. Money goes to veterans. Work with international criminal court.
Corporate polluters and ecosystem destroyers---pay for rebuilding what they have damaged, funds transferred to sustainable projects
Agribusiness--companies broken up and lands distributed to local farmers, all the profits going to local farms and coops, made liable for damages
International (CIA )drug runners--slam! Legalization will kill incentive for them to exist. Resulting hemp economy will create jobs
International banks--broken up into manageable size, work with international communities to divvy up the assets, liable for mortgage fraud, all stops on foreclosures
Separation of Church and State--all churches with political connections or hate speech made liable, lose tax exemption
Propaganda department--disbanded, Lying to the people made illegal under freedom of the press.
Insurance companies--liable for profiting off of the sick and infirm, their profits go to public health programs


If law enforcement and military could be convinced that they are serving non American entities, and are being used against innocent citizens, help them see they are not truly serving America. This is key, and the most difficult part. We need law enforcement on the side of the American people once again, and the military has to refuse to serve corrupt international corporations--their lives are worth NOTHING to these corporations, they are being lied to. Police need to be loyal to us--we need them.

With all these people out of the way, think of what we could accomplish. Jails would function to isolate truly harmful people from the general public. Law enforcement and courts would have PLENTY to do. Our government would reactivate regulations that protect the public, not corporations. FDR's 2nd Bill of Rights can be put into effect after the trials.

How to we get there from here? First, to think of Justice as a good American Dream, and not a hallucination. Put the corrupt in jail. Just some ideas :) for this thread, you guys rock btw.

[DRex]

44. Great post. Right on.

The scary thing is to compare how the enforcement of white collar crime is almost non-existent with how law enforcement treats the rest of society. And if you owe the corporation money, god help you. The police will come, and they will make you and your family homeless. You'll be lucky to get away without being tazed or beaten or worse.
But if you steal billions you're untouchable.

This is the current state of justice in the USA. But I guess we saw cops on our side in WI, so maybe there's hope to get them firmly on our side in the long haul. I just can't shake the fear that when push comes to shove we might find we haven't come very far at all since Kent State, or indeed that we've gone very far in the wrong direction...

They've got the guns, but we've got the numbers.

But they've got a lot of guns.
:yoiks:

[TBF]

30. That's just a phase? Pretty much that sums up capitalism as a whole imo.

Starting with the land grab from the Native Americans and only wealthy white land owners being "allowed" to vote ... it has been this way the whole time. And, of course, going back historically the US is not the only country to experience class warfare. I'd challenge you to find a time when it wasn't so.

[socialist_n_TN]

52. Agree. This is just the nature of the beast...

nm

[jwirr]

62. But which beast? Capitalism or Democracy? It is hard to separate

them sometimes.

[TBF]

75. Capitalism is the beast - it is an unjust system by definition.

The sooner we are rid of it the better.

[walldude]

31. Bill Mahr described it as such:

"Hey shine my shoes fuckface".

[Locrian]

35. I think you're right...

And it's gonna get a hell of a lot worse when the gloves come off. We aint seen nothin yet.

[BeHereNow]

38. K&R btw...

Assholes get the government they deserve and allow to commit atrocities as a result of their ignorance and arrogance.
That is all.
BHN

[MedicalAdmin]

41. With all due respect to the OP

The experiment known as AMERICAN democracy is over. Other democracies will soldier on.

[adigal]

47. We act like we have no power

but we do. We just have to stop buying things we don't need. We have to grow our own food more, not buy a TV for each room, not stand on line for the "new" I-pad, not all need a new I-phone every time one comes out, not shop at WalMart or other chains. Don't shop at all unless you really need something.

If we would all do these things, the corporations would get the message pretty damn quickly. And maybe pay some more attention to us.

(I am not addressing the OP here, just most Americans.)

[Sevenfold]

57. agreed, this is such an important part

of fighting against Corporatocracy... to slay a corporation, you need to slit its money veins. But it can be very difficult to wean even the willing of the deep-ingrained (ending is better than mending, ending is better than mending) desire to buy-buy-buy. For me, I've spent most of my life connecting with this cause, and yet it still has taken years of reprogramming and restructuring my life and is still a work in progress. In our current society it takes a great strength of will and ability to scrape past the sugar-coated facades without feeling an empty disconnect. Its a big challenge to convince other like-minded people that we need to fight against the current system, since once they realize that less consumption is required the eyes tend to glaze over a bit.

[ArcticFox]

68. I fear it's too late for all that

There is just so much stuff that we really do need, and the supply chain is just so concentrated, that fighting by boycott is no longer feasible. Most farmers are owned by agribusiness. There is nothing more basic than food, and you cannot eat without most of the profit going to a corporate middleman. Boycott everything else and they'll raise the price of food so high you'll be unable to buy anything else.they don't care. The same people that sell you televisions get a good cut of that tomato sale as well. Understand: they own everything.

[fasttense]

72. They don't quite own everything yet.....

I'm a small farmer. We own a little land and some live stock. We are tax exempt on all sales directly off the farm here in TN. We are working toward sustainable farming practices without chemicals or input from corporations.

We recently had a conference in Chattanooga and I swear they said they had over 12,000 participants. There are thousands of us. We are trying to make sure there will be affordable sustainable farming and food when the factory farms and huge mono crop growers start collapsing.

They don't own everything and don't let them convince you of that. There is a food supply out there that does not belong to a corporation.

[Kip Humphrey]

83. Cooperatism instead of Corporatism, Localism instead of Globalism = How to be US instead of THEM.

There are still lots of mom & pop enterprises out there, many now with the reach of the Internets. Seek them out (use the Google. Facedbook, Craig's and Angie's); use them. Sure, there will always be some things you have to buy from the oligarchy but you can minimize those dollars if you put your mind to it (e.g, there is still a solar cottage industry out there - go green!). We do have the power and we do have alternatives yet but we must first awaken to the possibilities. That most feared by the Global Corps(e) is for the consumer masses to revolt in the streets and from their pocketbooks.

[StarsInHerHair]

53. K&R to 107

nt

[liberation]

54. "entering?" LOL

Capitalism is the system which sprung to replace the pyramidal feudal social structure... with a similar pyramid of their control.

In case you have missed it, care to point at which period during the 3+ centuries of capitalism which we have endured when there have not been massive amounts of poor people toiling away to benefit the few which control the most capital?

[MedleyMisty]

56. People who were in the middle of the pyramid

are now noticing it because they're finding themselves on the way down.

But yeah - the US has always been like this. You think the Native Americans or the slaves thought we were a free democratic country?

[liberation]

66. Exactly.

As you pointed out, for a big chunk of our history people were either robbed of their land or slaved for cheap labor, and even after slavery was abolished... children and immigrants were exploited during the gilded age. People need to realize that the couple of decades of relative prosperity in the USA, post WWII, were an "anomaly" not a trend. And let's not forget that even during that relative "prosperity" a big chunk of the USA (minorities) did not participate in it.

So I just get a chuckle when people pretend that this is something new. And BTW, this is not inherent to the USA, Capitalism depends on wealth gradients: i.e. cheap labor to maximize profits. That implies a large part of people (labor) being poor and a few (capital owners) being very wealthy. If people were equally wealthy, there would be no profit. Thus no capitalism. Yet people keep pretending a system, which has such inequality built in systemically, is behaving "anomaly" when it does exactly what it is intended to do.

[joentokyo]

55. You are absolutely right; in fact we are already there in my humble opinion.

[truth2power]

59. I just finished watching "Inside Job". As if I don't have enough to be angry about...

All those evil fuckers who brought down the economy are now in Obama's inner circle.

And I'm supposed to find a way to justify this, I suppose. Nah, he's one of them. Case closed. :mad:

[Enthusiast]

107. There will be no more

justification from this quarter.

[Kablooie]

60. Don't worry. In December of next year, 2012, the world will end. That'll teach'em.

[Riley18]

77. It is kinda my "Plan B"...

[grahamhgreen]

64. Look, we've been through robber barons and worse. We will put them in their place, again.

[stockholmer]

119. these systemic controllers ARE the same Robber Baron families, along w/ their global banking masters

The old family foundations (Rockefeller, Ford, Rhodes, Carnegie, etc etc etc), BIS, IMF, World Bank, Fed Reserve, ECB, Bank of England, The City of London Crown Corporation, the CFR nd its parent Royal Institute for Foreign Affairs, etc etc.

Slam them all in a trial dock, then a cell or a noose.......... Rothschilds, Oppenheimers, Rockefellers, Morgans, Schiffs, the house of Li Ka-shing (China), House of Kwok (China), Bundys, Collins, Cecils, van Duyns, Freemans, DuPonts, Mitals (India), Krupps, Astors, Saxe-Coberg Gothas(the British Royal House of Windsor), den Huis van Oranje-Nassau(Royal House of Holland), Sassoons, Orsinis, Somaglias, Breakspears, Aldobraninis, Farneses, and Warburgs at the lead.

that will be a start

[tcaudilllg]

65. A few bullets fired high in the air will bring any man down to earth.

[proud patriot]

71. I throughly enjoyed reading this thread

:thumbsup:

[bluestate10]

76. I doubt it. But if we have entered that phase, it is the end game for the rich,

and it won't end well for them. Look, if citizens start starving in massive numbers and others see their lives slipping into massive economic decline, there WILL be rioting and killing in the streets and anyone driving an expensive car, wearing a fancy suit, or living in an expensive house will be a prime target. No sane wealthy person wants society to get to the state that I just described.

[Chalco]

80. Very well said. Nt

[brewens]

85. A "bagger" sent me a vid comparing them with rebels in the Revolutionary

War. I said they were more like the British loyalists, as they would easily be duped into siding with the crown. Only when it was clear that the war was coming to them would they see the light and join the rebels.

[dotymed]

90. IMO, that is not the direction we are headed,

WE ARE THERE.
Instead of "doing something about it" as a huge mass of humanity, the average person does nothing and many condemn those that do protest.
Yes, we see protests globally. Can you imagine the impact they would have if even 50% of the able bodied, average, "fed up with it all" person, would JOIN the protests? WE would win, hands down and in a short (IMO) amount of time.

Alot has changed since the '60's, but there are enough of us who remember how to peacefully protest. THIS is our (probably) LAST CHANCE.
We can not afford to sit on the sidelines and watch humanity die.....

[workinclasszero]

93. Fascism is here today, the barbarians OWN the gates!

Too late to stop it now. Re-guns war on the unions seems to be coming to a head. Who will the teabagger brownshirts target next?

Pretty soon they will all be sitting pretty in their gated and walled suburbs with private police forces to protect them from the unwashed masses, US!

The only down side to them will be all the starving homeless people they pass on the way to the bank to count their tax free money sent directly from their fascist brothers in China.

They will curse us and say god(Ayn Rand) has condemned you to your fate so why should I help you in the least? Thanks be to god($$$$)and his servants on earth, Sister Sarah and Sister Bachmann(may the crazy be upon you)that we are not sinners like you.

America is doomed....

Maybe someday the formerly middle class workers will come to their senses and throw off the Fox/Rush/Beck/etc,etc,etc, propaganda and take back their country but I will be long dead by then and these rich fascists who think they are doing God's will are not going to just give it back cause their latest fuhrer lost some silly election.

[Enthusiast]

95. The main problem for us,

the liberal Democrats and therefore the American people, is that we elected a President that refuses to speak up on these issues. Either he is "one of them" or he doesn't know the history of U.S. labor strife. Could it be that he doesn't recognize the crisis we are in? For whatever reason, Obama has failed us completely. He has been a HUGE disappointment.

Sorry if that upsets the sensibilities of the forever defend Obama crowd but that is the way I feel.

[Canuckistanian]

99. Economic Royalists

Who have even more power than a medieval monarch.

[IGoToDU]

102. WOW

This thread. Just..wow. Thanks, everyone.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

106. There are more of us than there are than them.

We are going to have a revolution. Wisconsin is the start, and it will build. I'm not sure if it will be bloody, but it will be bloody awesome, that is for sure. Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, et al are doing log rolls in their graves for what we have become. We need to do as Thomas Jefferson told us all to do when this shit happens. I just don't know if anyone has the balls to lead it here as they did in France.
Duckie

[WillyT]

109. Yep... K & R !!!

:kick:

[olegramps]

111. What is taking place is as old as Democracy.

Some 2300 years ago Aristotle in his work "Politics" observed that a Democracy's greatest threat was their evolution into an Oligarchy as wealth is concentrated into the hands of fewer and fewer citizens. As he observed a Democracy can only exist in a society with a large Middle Class of relatively prosperous citizens.

One simple fact can attest to this being exactly what has become of our Republic in that 400 of the wealthiest families have more wealth than the bottom 50% of Americans. The total assists of some 175,000,000 Americans, their homes, cars, savings and investments, is matched by only 400 the most wealthy families. The bottom 50% only have 2.5% of the total wealth in comparison to the top 10% who have over 70% of the wealth. These facts are according to studies based on 2007 data and economists estimate that it has dramatically worsen in the last three years as million of working class citizens have lost their most important asset, their homes. Nor are the working class folks going realize any improvement as the Stock Market recovers since the bottom 50% only have 0.5% of the investments in stocks, bonds and mutuals while the top 10% own over 90% of these basic investments. In fact millions of working class citizens have been forced to divest their saving and investments just to survive further concentrating the wealth.

When I see Republican working class people staunchly defending the Republican Party whose leadership is intent on their economic destruction and virtual slavery I can only shake my head in disbelief. They are their own worst enemy. I can only suppose that our society will have to go through a traumatic cycle in which the working class finally come to their senses when they have been been reduced to absolute poverty and the once again demand a fair share of the wealth that they produce.

Why is it that Democrats haven't made this a key issue? Perhaps I could suggest that very few elected Democrats actually share the misery that the working class is suffering. The working class doesn't have any forceful champions for their cause and the few voices that they do have have been drowned out by the radical right-wing propagandists who spew the corporate line.

[TNLib]

116. Next Phase Guillotine Time

nt