Here's a different take on why the GOP and Corporate Right have gone into Attack Overdrive

[Armstead]

This may be counter-intuitive and wrong.

But is it possible that the recent spate of attacks from the Right-Wing/GOP/Koch/Corporate/Oligarchs and their Teabagger minions is not really a naked power grab to seal the nails in the coffin of regulation, workers rights, liberal values and the Democratic Party?

Is it possible that the Oligarchs are actually scared shitless?

Is it possible they are behaving like a wounded animal that is threatened,and are lashing out in an almost irrational fury to defend themselves from a perceived threat? Rather than our frequent sense that this is an offensive move, it is possible that they they may perceive it as being on the defensive?

I mean, these are smart people. But there is a certain stupid desperation in the actions of the Walkers, Scotts and all the rest of the GOP and their Oligarch backers. If they were REALLY thinking clearly, they'd be a lot more subtle and patient, and less transparent and obnoxious.

We are fearing this is the final stage of a long-running coup. But is it possible that they see it as the opposite, as a last gasp effort to defend their fortress?

Looking back, the Corporate/Wall St. Oligarchy have basically gotten everything they wanted since the 1980's....New Deal/Great Society Liberalism has been steadily chipped away and discredited. The monopolists have been allowed to take over most of the economy and tailor regulation and taxes to their own desires. The middle/working classes have been driven to their collective knees.

They have a fully supportive GOP and not much opposition -- and often active support -- of the Centrist Democratic Party.

In short, they have gotten a Free Pass for 30 years.

But in 2008, things changed. They almost killed off the economy. The Democrats took the White House and Congress. The naked greed and often criminality of the Wall St Hotshots was exposed, and a large segment of the public got pissed. And there is at least the stirrings of as potential progressive populist backlash....Although President Obama and the Democrats haven't really done much to really shake things up, they have made moves in the direction of reform.

So these Oligarchs are no longer as much in the catbird's seat as much as they were. Yes, they still have the bulk of the power and wealth. But the unquestioned obedience (and even worship) they have enjoyed is beginning to be shaken.

So they have, for the past couple of years -- and especially in the last several months -- put all of their energy into protecting their turf. That strategy has included putting their message machine into hyperdrive, and labeling anything even remotely tinged with liberal or progressive populism or reform as Marxist, Sociualist and even, on the crazy edges as a Progressive/Islamic Fundasmentalist Alliance.

And -- despite the almost inevitable prospect that the GOP would make gains in that off-year election -- they poured their money into the 2010 elections big time.

Maybe this theory is bullshit. But maybe if we see it in those terms, we might be able to combat it more effectively...and also feel a little less disheartened by recent events.

[shraby]

1. Here's a kick and R for ya. This merits discussion.

[elleng]

2. Its certainly possible, Arm, and might be good

if such would help us to protect our turf and continue to move on, but I doubt such re-thinking would help much. I may be wrong; will sleep on it.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[Armstead]

10. Even if it is an illusion, or only partly true, it could help our morale

and prompt popular action rather than defeatism.

Worth thinking about anyway. (And sometimes looking at things outside of the box can be helpful.)

[elleng]

11. Outside the box OFTEN helpful. Thanks.

[Demonaut]

3. spoken like a true optimist

k&r

[Armstead]

7. Part time optimist

My other job is being a cynic...Trying to fiund that middle ground :)

[glinda]

72. I think it is both greed and fear.

[freshwest]

4. I would like to think so but I believe they have information we don't and are protecting themselves.

Like what bills are coming due in international markets, the true state of our natural resources across the planet, Earth changes, etc. And they're getting theirs now to survive.

I don't believe they are afraid of the American people. They may be desperate, but not because of us. Bigger forces may be in play. And I confess that I may have it all wrong.

[Armstead]

5. They already have all they need to survive....and then some

I am sure they are well prepared for any disasters that may be coming down the pike...More than enough money stashed away to last them and their families for several lifetimes....And if it is a bad enough natural disaster, they're just as screwed as the rest of us.

I think it's more a combination of wanting to hold on to their power and "prestige" agfainst the unrily masses, and also being Dogs in the Manger to protect their turf.

[freshwest]

33. That would make them seem more human, huh? I appreciate your optimism and I"m working on it!

Goodness knows there's enough bad news to make our hearts sink to our feet these days.

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

[Armstead]

34. They are mere mortals after all

[Shiver]

6. Rec'd for many things, but especially the last sentence.

We lose when we give up. We lose if we give in to the fear and the despair they want to foster in us. We lose if we give up. As long as we fight, we will have not lost.

[Old and In the Way]

8. I hope you're right and it is counterintuitive.

Could be a sign of desperation. Talked with my sister tonight...she's been a teacher for almost 30 years. She and her husband (also a teacher) have never been politically active; progressives, but not vocal activists. They are both getting real concerned, no....angry, with the Republican clowns who have taken over the state (Maine) government. She started ranting about the situation almost immediately tonight. I can't remember a time when she's volunteered her political concerns without me instigating the conversation. I suspect a lot of formally apolitical people are starting to finally get it - and they aren't standing up to support the Republican philosophy, either.. She asked me, rhetorically, "what happened to the Republican Party?" I told her it's a very long, 30 year story in the making.

It is desperation and they are "all in" on their agenda. They aren't feeling checked by the voter....so I suspect that this is their last push and I fully expect that the next war will be on election law. This is where I think they'll make their fatal over-reach. As their legislation starts trying to deny whole segments the chance to vote, they will finally be exposed as the cancer that we know them to be on this democracy. It's only a matter of time. The backlash against them is going to be fierce and I suspect that the reaction will lead to a far more progressive socio-political changes that will reflect the corrections needed for this country to compete with the rest of the world in the decades to come. Because, if that doesn't happen, this country's best days are in its past.

[Armstead]

9. Your sister is an example of what I mean

Like I said in the OP, these guys (and women) are smart.

Thinking clearly, the smart strategy would be to continue on the path of sneaking little things through gradually, pretending to be reasonable and disguising their real agenda.

That way, they cold avoid riling up people like your sister that much....They are even alienating some of the more level headed of the Republican moderates.

Kicking the hornet's nest in the way they have (Scott Walker, as a prime example, and the Maine Governor's stupid decision on that mural) and being so blatant is just plain dumb.

Which could indicate that they are feeling sort of cornered.

[MedicalAdmin]

50. I have a different theory. It's the end game and they are moving to cash in their chips.

They need to get away beforefhings change and move to somewhere they control the government. Their grip is slipping. They are leaving.

[glinda]

74. To where? Is that why they treat our land like an open gas field?

They are treating America's resources like they do elsewhere, where they destroy it to pieces.

[MedicalAdmin]

106. To where?

Where ever the fuck they want. They just have to destroy the political system (also educational system etc.) so that we don't get back control while we still havethe resources and infrastructure to reach out andfuck them up. They have to destroy America. They can't leave us intact because we would find them and kill them.

But their fatal flaw is that they have clef untouchable for so long that they think they can't be touched. They are wrong.

[elleng]

12. Praying for this in the foreseeable future.

'The backlash against them is going to be fierce and I suspect that the reaction will lead to a far more progressive socio-political changes that will reflect the corrections needed for this country to compete with the rest of the world in the decades to come.'

[socialist_n_TN]

13. Well in my more optimistic moments, I've wondered about

this scenario myself. ESPECIALLY right after Obama won in '08. And I DEFINITELY believed that that SHOCKED the shit out of them.

Remember that they had become so entrenched in the collective American psyche as the "correct" path that they actually made "liberal" a bad word. So bad that even "liberals" started to not call themselves that. Even a popular Dem president said that the era of big government was over. All of a sudden, their free wheeling system screwed up the economy AND created a backlash that could have washed them away for a generation or more.

The only thing that makes me doubt this is that they WEREN'T banished to the political wilderness for a generation. Aided and abetted by the "moderate" Democratic Party WHO REFUSED TO GIVE THE PEOPLE THE CHANGE THEY THOUGHT THEY VOTED FOR, they were able to mount a resurgence in the midterms.

Now I think they're attitude is "Never again!" By hook or crook, they will NOT allow another potentially left wing revival like '08. So they're going all in to prevent it. Of course, that "all in" also smacks of desperation.

[elleng]

15. They weren't banished because of effect of $

which, among other things, made extremely difficult achieving ALL the change people thought they voted for. $ is and will continue to be major problem for Dems, along with inclination to eat our own and fail to counter the way repugs use their power - propaganda.

[Armstead]

16. I agree with you about the performance of the Democrats since 08....But...

I also think they are nervous about the "long view" including the possibility that the Democratic base might actually kick the asses of politicians and start pushing for REAL change.

In other words, part of their fear is that the Democratic Party might actually become what the Democratic Party is supposed to stand for [-- and even become good at iut again. And that really would scare the shit out of them.

[sendero]

26. It needn't have shocked them and I doubt if it did..

... he's done nothing at all to rein them in and IMHO they installed him into that position to do just that.

[elleng]

14. How's this???!!!

'More than 4 million accounts have already moved away from the nation's largest banks and this trend will only increase according to Moebs Services, an economic research firm in Lake Bluff, IL. Previously, large banks with over $50 billion in assets held 45% of the 130 million consumer checking accounts in 2009. That number has been decreasing dramatically with Bank of America losing 400,000 accounts in 2010 alone.

This trend will only continue, according to Michael Moebs, CEO of Moebs Services, who predicts an additional 7 to 9 million accounts moving by the end of 2011. The trend should plateau in 2012 after the nation's largest banks see between 13 and 17 million accounts moving to local community banks and credit unions in just three short years. If Moebs' predictions come to fruition, the largest financial firms will only hold a third of all free checking accounts in the US by the end of 2012, a huge drop from the 45% they held in 2009.'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x750072

[Armstead]

17. That would be a positive sign of change from the grassroots

There actually was an effort to start a movement to encourage that after the crash.

(Personally I found the answer to that one myself years back and joined a credit union. Now if there was a huge movement to credit unions, that could really be a kick in the backside to them.)

[aquart]

18. Nobody said they weren't paranoid.

And they absolutely knew they deserved to go to jail forever for what they did. But it didn't happen. It's kind of like a Poe story, The Telltale Heart. They can hear the heart of murdered America beating, and whatever they do to kill it, they still hear it beating. So they try harder.

Because they know what they did.

[Armstead]

19. Good point. I hadn't thought of thast side of it

I imagine there's a lot of dirty linen in their closets they don't want to be discovered

[marions ghost]

63. nice analogy

They can't kill the heart.

"they know what they did." -- yes at some level of their being they know it. So now they have to support their crimes by committing other crimes.

They have a lot to protect.

[JDPriestly]

20. After participating in the LA march today, I had a very different theory.

Of course, that is all it is -- a theory.

There were a couple of tables offering socialist information -- books, flyers, etc. They were surprisingly busy -- compared to what I would have expected considering it was a very middle-class crowd.

It occurred to me that since the fall of the Soviet Union, the extreme right feels confident that its primary obstacle, the threat of a broad-based, Soviet-supported socialist movement in the West and particularly in the US no longer exists.

Based on the signs and energy today, I think that the extreme right would be wrong not to be very cautious right now. Americans may not be interested in socialism, but they are pretty fed up with the way capitalism is working right now.

Change is in the air -- more now than in 2008. Workers really feel that the rich have started a war on working people. The signs from the LA march leave no doubt that is the message. Even though the signs were printed, people felt quite comfortable carrying them because they expressed the broad sentiment. "Stop the War on Workers."

Remember the old slogan, "Better dead than red." I am half joking (I am not a socialist), but it occurred to me that a popular slogan of the coming era may be "Better red than dead." If lay-offs and pay decreases continue, people are going to be pretty desperate.

The Koch Brothers and their ilk feel quite secure. They have never had it so good. Their campaign chests are full. They are going for their kill, and I think they are going to miss the target by a long shot.

We still have our feet and our voices. We need to start using them to better effect.

The march today was a great start.

[Armstead]

21. Your theory is half different

I basically agree with most of your post (which is a different way of what I was trying to say in the OP) up tio gthe point of the Kochs and their ilk feeling secure.

These are smart people. And anyone looking at the heavy-handed way they and their GOP henchmen have been going about their plans can see that it is self-defeating. Much smarter, for example, to let Scotty Walker settle in and use their majority in a sneakier way (hack at the unions a step at a time so that most people don't notice or care) instead of looking like a dictatorial anti-worker bully.

Likewise, if they really want to run the tables in the next election, it is not politically wise to telegraph the awful side of your agenda at this point.

That, to me, is a sign of desperation rather thsan confidence.

But I could be wrong. We still have to do all we can to stop the bastids.

[JDPriestly]

24. Yes. The marches in Wisconsin and the marches in support of Wisconsin

that are taking place around the country are a beginning.

To me, the value in the marches is not in terms of directly changing policy but rather in building a sense of unity, discipline and pride in the participants.

We are in this for the long hall. Social Security must be a rallying cry. Social Security is a program that must be protected at all cost. It is the only thing that working people can really rely on.

[freshwest]

35. Just as the New Deal saved capitalists from themselves, we confront the same reality FDR did.

P. S. Thanks for the first hand account. It was encouraging.

[lafayettelonewolf]

22. No, it is not a theory...

This has been their plan all along since Prescott Bush made his "bet" against the United States back in World War II when he was doing his dirty dealings with Hitler. It is no suprise when the Koch brothers were linked to Nazi Germany as well. The connections to the Third Reich are REAL hard to ignore people. People like Charles & David Koch, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Ann Coutlier, Michelle Bachmann, etc. have one common goal in mind....a return to the dark ages. I don't know about you guys, but I'm sure not waiting for "Superman" or "Batman" to save the day. Sorry, it's up to you and I to stand against the facists.

[proud patriot]

23. Maybe but I like this Theory

[Larkspur]

25. When Obama refused to prosecute the Banksters on Wall Street, it was only a

matter of time before grassroots people would rise up and protest. Obama hasn't stopped the greed on Wall Street from destroying our nation and his support for more free trade deals that ship good paying American jobs overseas will continue to feed that anger.

The Banksters are playing the same con games that they did before the 2008 bank failures. Obama put his finger in the dike when he supported the $787 billion bailout of Wall Street, but the proverbial sea wall is cracking from that hole and is ready to breach. Actually it has breached in WI, MI and OH and could begin including other states. Oddly, CT, which has a DLC-type Dem as governor could be the first Democratic state to face populist anger at fixing the state budget on the backs of the poor and working people. Gov. Malloy is demanding $2 billion, $1 billion per year over the next 2 years, in concessions from public sector unions, but most experts say they can only see unions giving up at most $300-400 million per year.

Critics skeptical Malloy can reach union concession goal
Malloy: No concessions would mean 'nasty and ugly' budget,
Labor Talks Continue, But Malloy Is Working On ‘Plan B’,
Malloy Urged To Increase Taxes On Wealthy, Adopt SustiNet

[Skittles]

47. CORRECT

now that repukes see Dems as colloborators, it is a free-for-all

[tex-wyo-dem]

94. Just a theory here, but what if...

Obama is doing this on purpose to wake the masses from their slumber? Your quote bellow made me think of this possibility:

"When Obama refused to prosecute the Banksters on Wall Street, it was only a matter of time before grassroots people would rise up and protest."

Think about it...

[Kablooie]

27. John Birch type views usually stem from paranoia and fear.

[Schema Thing]

28. Kick

[FredStembottom]

29. ....New Deal/Great Society Liberalism has been steadily chipped away and discredited.

Small correction that means a lot: discredited means "proven false" or "proven worthless".

If anything, the repeal of the New Deal has proven just how indispensable such New Deal reforms as Glass/Steagall really are to maintaining a democracy.

I think the word you want is: disparaged. Meaning incessant ridicule, whether deserved or not.

[Armstead]

32. Point well-taken

[TheKentuckian]

30. Hopefully, but I believe the safer money is on them not giving a flying fuck about blowback.

Not within the system and they have been very careful to set backfires that severely curtail the ability to act outside of the system with their Patriot Act and FISA type laws going back to "Terry stops" and have steadily and relentlessly pushed for decades in preparation for the final act.

We are not ever going to vote our way out since both parties are owned they can simply allow a pressure valve candidate to play outsider and then work to secure their interests under the banner of change.

We have elections because they allow an illusion that maintains the status quo.

[WillyT]

31. I Like It... K & R !!!

:kick:

:hi:

[femrap]

36. These turds aren't stupid....but

even if they were, they have the $$$$ to buy the best experts in science, finance, etc.

And maybe they do realize that the paradigm is going to shift and they'll be fed to the poor for breakfast meat.

Competition of Capitalism is killing us....soon We, The People may realize that Cooperation is the only way to survive.

On the other hand, Mother Nature may take them all out...and end Globalization! Consider that Toyota has shut down American plants...no parts due to Mother Nature's idea of Rock n' Roll.

But I do see your point....they're in their death throes.

[barbtries]

37. i'm still going with the naked power grab theory,

but this is certainly ponderable.

[unblock]

38. they are shifting power away from government so that government can't fight back.

we hav been witness to a massive power shift over the last 3 decades in particular from government to the corporate world. once upon a time, government could control business. no longer. now business controls government.

but will it last? demographic shifts and economic realities make it more and more challenging for the right wing to exert influence over government. they are throwing ever increasing money at the problem, but the real solution is to neutralize the power of government entirely.

this is why they have loaded us up on debt and made the election process ever more dependent on corporate contributions and corporate media publicity. should they ever lose control of washington, a genuine liberal majority would be largely powerless to overrule business interests. liberals would have more pressing problems to solve, not enough money for any meaningful opposition, and two years later, the right wing can come back into power, at least enough to prevent and meaningful opposition.

remember how far from truly effective "we" were when "we" had the presidency and both houses of congress? sure, we had our victories, and we may have gotten the best we could out of those two years, but it was a constant struggle because even most democrats are beholden to corporate interests for re-election. there's just not enough campaign donations for truly liberal platforms and re-election now depends on sooo much money that liberal proposals can only be snuck in in small quantities with big concessions for corporate interests. we certainly had no real chance of anything truely fdr-like. business has far too much power these days compared to during the 1930s.

absent a genuine collapse, which we appear to have averted, we will continue to see more and more business control over not just american government, but all governments. eventually nations will be largely irrelevant, as more and more borders are lowered in the name of "free" trade, countries will be reduced to effectively public taxation to fund private armies serving the interests of transnational corporate masters.


ironic that the hippie ideal of "one world" should be a right-wing paradise....

[glinda]

78. Will add to your thought that it is very likely in anticipation of Climate Change and its

affects upon the loss of land mass & changes due to devastation from climate patterns to come.

[OneGrassRoot]

39. I'm with you. n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

40. Well I always felt they are scared to death of liberals. Just look how they cheated in

2000 by stealing the election from Gore. It's been down hill since. They got their little religious nut for president and now you have them infiltrating every part of local, state and congress. Every place you look they are removing any liberal progressive action in this country. It is almost to late. The republicans know damn well that the youth and any minority group votes democratic. They know that. Fox news knows their elderly viewers are getting older and dying they want the Daily Show viewers that Fox knows they never will have.

[NJCher]

59. They got their little religious nut for president

He wasn't a religious nut. He just played one on TV!


Cher

[Canuckistanian]

41. I think the 2010 election was their target

A lot of people don't pay attention to mid-terms.

So I\m thinking they could sneak their most radical candidates in (with intensive coaching) with vague promises of "fiscal conservatism".
Meanwhile, what they're actually planning is a full-scale attack on middle-class Democratic values like labor unions, welfare, public pensions and unemployment benefits.

Although they THOUGHT they could pass this by a complacent and ignorant electorate, I think they're genuinely SCARED SHITLESS over the response.

NOW is the time to fight back.

[MadMaddie]

42. I believe they are acting like cornered animals

and believe it or not they are beyond threatened of the success of a "Black Man"! I think it is so damn basic that no one wants to believe it.

I think they see the writing on the wall and they have little to no chance of winning in 2012. So they are attacking ALL social issues because this may be their last chance. They are also counting on the divisiveness that they have sewn into the Democractic Party, they watch as we flitter in the wind fighting each other.



I think they are desperate and insane!

[Major Hogwash]

43. Yes they are desperate -- and now the fucking game is over!!!! And now we all know it.

The Democrats won't even need to advertise to "throw the bums out" in 2012 -- there are NO freakin' new jobs that paid the wages they did just 7 years ago.
Minimum wage jobs will not allow the consumers to buy the corporation's products or services at the rate we used to.

Now we have more homeless people, more hungry people, more jobless people, more hopeless people.

If we won't vote to save ourselves, we are doomed.
And that's all there is to it.
The Kochs can spend $88 million dollars in the next 18 months, it won't matter.
They can spend $880 million dollars, it won't matter.

People have woken up to the power-hungry, power-grabbing bullshit of the GOP party!!!
Grover Norquist, your bathtub analogy is coming true -- for the Republican party!!

[Martin Eden]

44. I think they're just more aggressive and less reasonable than we are.

The true elites of wealth and power behind the rightwing noise machine have seen their hold on wealth and power steadily increase since the Reagan presidency. My guess is they feel relatively confident and secure. In any event they never under any circumstance let up in pushing the "conservative" narrative, framing the issues, solidifying their base of useful idiots, and taking advantage of any situation to further their agenda.

You're absolutely right that they never want to go on or be perceived as being on the defensive. After the disaster of the Bush years and the GOP repudiation in 2006 & 2008 I thought perhaps the Republican Party would migrate towards a more sane & reasonable approach, but instead they doubled-down in the batshit crazy department. This fired up their base without losing the middle, thanks in no small part to how their allies in the corporate media covered events.

They may very well be playing with fire by pushing things too far. I certainly hope there will be a widespread backlash and a firing up of the liberal base. Wisconcsin provided reason to hope. The problem is we lack leadership at the highest levels. A good chunk of the Democratic base is badly disillusioned with the leader of our Party, the President of the United States.

Democrats control the White House and the Senate; so why does it feel like we are the minority party in ouir government?

[Armstead]

54. You hit a basic question...

My OP was about the GOP.

But there is also a very salient question in your post.

Democrats control the White House and the Senate; so why does it feel like we are the minority party in ouir government?

[Martin Eden]

101. The Two Are Related

Most of my post was about the GOP and those who pull their strings, and why they're always on the offensive. One of the reasons why they're able to stay on offense so effectively is the lack of aggressiveness on our side ... we go on defense too easily, and even when we controlled both chambers of Congress & the White House the Democrats in office do not take advantage of this power and implement the agenda we elected them for.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

91. to me, why it feels like we're in the minority has a lot to do with media

for two reasons:

1. All the loudest, most propagandistic outlets are owned by Corporate/GOP interests, smaller news outlets take their cues from them, since they are the largest share, and it's easier to just lazily follow along.

2. Many many people get all their information from these no-brains-needed TV outlets--their poison is ubiquitous. They're easily accessible and simple to digest. They're predictable in a chaotic, scary world and offer excitement. They respond to complexity with certain, easy, scapegoaty answers and lots of self-righteous, ginned-up emotion--so they're addictive as well. People still think the only criterion for Truth is hearing it on their favorite newsfotainment show. And last, No reading or thinking needed after an 8 or 10 or 14 hour day's work.

[NorthCarolina]

45. They have a window of opportunity, and a friendly administration in the WH.

Time to make hay while the sun shines.

[pam4water]

46. No, we're the ones on the ropes. They are just smelling the blood and moving

in for the kill.

[Armstead]

55. They are not usually so short sighted

If there is anything they can be given credit for is an ability to take the long view, and execute strategies with discipline and caution.

But their behavior lately is the exact opposite and -- at least potentially -- almost designed to turn public opinion agaiunst them.

[NJCher]

60. demographic realities

If there is anything they can be given credit for is an ability to take the long view, and execute strategies with discipline and caution.


And that's because....

a) the demographic realities are for a Democratic majority.

See this article/book, which most here are probably already aware of (The Emerging Democratic Majority).

http://www.slate.com/id/2073779/

b) the other reason they might be on the ropes is that I'm pretty sure these people are isolated.

Personally, I can't imagine the Koch brothers listening to diverse opinion. Their type of personality and modus operandi engenders sycophants.

After all, that close-mindedness is what makes them Republicans. If they were open-minded, they'd be more in the style of a George Soros.



Cher

[Armstead]

61. There is a lot of intellectual inbreeding among them

Lack of exposure to the reality of most people I'm sure allows one's views to become calcified

[NJCher]

62. also see this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x594864

It's about the major increase in Hispanics in the U.S. and how the Republicans have a record of alienating them.


Cher

[glinda]

79. Desperation? I agree about their actions. They are too out there to think this is

just what we see on the surface.

[Lucky Luciano]

48. I doubt this assumption...It seems more like every time they pushed, nobody pushed back...

so, they get a little more confident and cocky...and they push a little harder at each successive step.

[Armstead]

56. There's a certtain truth in that...But they've never gone so over the top as this

[Kurmudgeon]

49. Not that smart, they believed that "permanent majority" baloney, However, expect them to try again.

[glinda]

80. They do try to set the stage to win through fixing Courts and voting machines though.

[Juche]

51. Maybe on some level

But I doubt it. I go for the 'naked power grab' storyline. The GOP is pushing hard to ensure its electoral successes in the future. They are busting unions and pushing voter ID laws, both of which will weaken democrats in the polls.

It has been 3 years and people have more or less forgotten that corporate greed and deregulation collapsed the economy.

[zentrum]

52. 'Fraid not.

This is classic Shock Doctrine. They know it's we wage earners who are scared shitless and they know to strike now, while we're down (unemployed) and dazed (losing ground and not sure what hit us.)

But it's definitely a coordinated attack. There needs to be a deeper investigation of how all the Republicans, Governors especially, knew to go after unions in this particularly ruthless way all at once.

[Armstead]

58. It is Shock Docturne -- But at the same time they are...

doing idiot things like banning women's health funding, trying to effectively outlaw abortion, coming out against Don't tell...etc. And on top of that undermining their own message of "fiscal restraint" by handing out tax breaks to the rich and corporations (and in some cases raising taxes on the poor and elderly).

Despite their efforts at Shock and Awe, their approach carries a very basic risk that the average person struggling financially is going tio look at them and say "Wait a minute. If we're in such a crisis why are you wasting your time trying to kill off NPR, instead of really doing somethingh about the budget and helping me get a job?"

[gkhouston]

76. The average person doesn't care about NPR. He/she would, however, wonder why

so much time is being spent on abortion law (yet again) and tax breaks for businesses while so many Americans are out of work. There have been tax cuts for businesses and the rich for years and it hasn't done jack to create jobs, so selling the idea of "trickle down" one more time isn't going to fly, IMO. The awareness that Wall Street has "recovered" yet there are still no jobs spreads more each day, and that is not good news for politicians.

[Armstead]

98. You may be right abvout NPR..I just used that as one example of their slacking on the job

[glinda]

81. Two results. Death of people. More money for them as they cut and channel it to friends.

[DireStrike]

53. I had this thought as well.

The great post-war joyride is over. America has fallen from prominence.

They know that in the confines of this system, there is nothing they can do to keep everyone pacified in the long storm that's coming. All the organizing that's amounted to almost nothing in the past 30 years is suddenly about to find fertile ground in an awakened and pissed off populace. As a consequence, they're grabbing up as much as they can get their hands on NOW, hoping to use it to defend as much as possible. The more resources they start off with, the better they can come out at the end.

It really doesn't make any sense to be so insanely reckless in any other narrative. They are not stupid... they see that society is on the verge of huge changes. Their plan is to transcend society through wealth. This probably happens every time a society collapses. It usually doesn't work. They feel entitled, and think they can do anything.

What it means for us is that we have to be ready to construct a new society, as smoothly as possible. The second implication is that somebody has to make a list of these fuckers. Because if we succeed, they will run to the farthest corners of the earth, and they must be brought to justice.

[glinda]

82. I think a list is necessary. I really do.

[glinda]

89. Can someone start a list of people who are on the various Conservative groups, etc... and

see if some people are on more than one of them? I think it would be curious to see all the names and see if there are some surprises in linking up things.

[DireStrike]

108. Well there's always http://www.theyrule.net/

[Arkana]

57. Cause it's all they know how to do.

Their increased desperation is showing with every volley of invective that's hurled at the Wisconsin protestors. As their polls slide into the shitter they get more and more openly contemptuous.

[FarLeftFist]

64. I totally agree...

It's as if the curtain on their corruption has been lifted and exposed for the world to see and they are no longer hiding it, they are now on the defensive. I like the way you think.

[RowdyRacer]

66. Nothing personal, but...

you are right when you suggest that your theory might be bullshit. What does the collective "right" have to be afraid of?? You mention that Democrats took the WH and both houses in 2008...how'd that work out?? They did everything they could to avoid any change for the better, and bent over backwards to seek approval from the GOP and their voters, whom all hate their guts no matter what they do.

[FarLeftFist]

110. You're talking to the wrong person. Go away.

[SnoopDog]

65. Scared Shitless??? No, they are going for it because they think they will win...

Which means they destroy our country.

And they have everything going for them...

They have the nightly news.
They have the airwaves.
They have the money.
They have the Supreme Court.
They have our government.

And most importantly, they know Americans will not do a god damn thing to stop them.

Sure, my fellow patriots in Wisconsin are kicking butt but they are still winning...

We have not done a god damn thing in 10 years to really stop these bastards.

They are taking our country. And unless we do something right now, history will show
that the American People sat on their asses, rolled over, and cowardly gave the country
to the most evil people on earth.

Sort of reminds me of the good Germans who gave their country to Hitler..

[dsharp88]

68. Exactly

[glinda]

84. You are unfortunately dead on target I think.

[rhett o rick]

67. The Citizens United decision gave them everything. They smell victory and are pushing the limits.

Yes there was a backlash in WI but to date hasnt stopped the oligarchs. It may slow them down, but by pressing on harder they see victory. The time to celebrate will be when we actually push them back. We havent gotten there yet. I expect the next two years to be full of dirty tricks and major hatchet jobs. Celebrate if we still have a Democrat in the WH after the 2012 elections.

[Paka]

69. Excellent points you make.

And yes, we all could do with a little optimism. If we let ourselves get mired in depression, even the best can no longer think clearly. Our opponents are strong and devious so we do need clear thinking. Thanks! :loveya:

[byronius]

70. Rings true to me.

[grahamhgreen]

71. No, they are winning (getting more money and power) and half our party is complicit, including Obama

They dont care if they have to double back on their stated beliefs, just as long as the money flows

[tcaudilllg]

73. They are scared, but it's because of their nature, not events.

In other words, they are and will always be scared anyway. Not of actual events, mind you, but of facing that in many things they have been obliquely wrong, and hurt many for sake of their denial.

In other words, they fear their conscience.

[jwirr]

75. Fear is their driving force behind the actions. They see their world

ending and all this aggression is what they are doing to combat the threat they see. That makes sense. Huge wealth is their idea of security in the face of need. So they get scared and start hording everything in sight even if they have to steal it from the mouths of babes. Usually we are talking about the symptom you are talking about the cause. Interesting post.

One further cause of this fear is the changing census in which they are no longer a large majority. This is their - they have systematically destroyed the middle class that stood as a barrier between them and the poor for years.

[tcaudilllg]

77. I don't think that's it.

I see it as Aristotelian belief in the ethics of excellence. And if you actually ask them, instead of just theorizing about their beliefs for your own comfort, that is what they will tell you.

[Armstead]

97. In other words, arrogence

[Avant Guardian]

83. Their denial makes them run rampant

The economy is collapsing because of their ideology has failed. Their denial tells them a purer version of the ideology is what is needed to fix the economy.

[Armstead]

96. That's the strange thing about their followers

This shit isn't working, so we need more of it.

[Avant Guardian]

109. Not just 'more' of it..

...but 'It' on steroids

I think they have wedded their souls to the ideology.

[reformist2]

85. Think of them like one big corporation, maximizing profits for themselves.

It seems to me all they think about is money. They've really lost all sense of morality. These guys are not your father's Republicans...

[defendandprotect]

87. Agree -- but actually more like organized crime -- they are criminals ...

[defendandprotect]

86. Agree -- they have control now -- illegitimately. And it could end any moment --

I think they are scared --

The only way the right wing can rise is via right wing violence -- assassinations, coups --
stolen elections via GOP controlled computers -- and lies/rw proapganda which certainly works.

In '63, they took our president AND our people's government -- we've had more than 50 years
of right wing political violence taking out our liberal and progressive leaders -- targeting
liberals before they've even had a chance to rise.

Later in 60's they also began introducing the voting computers --

They used their wealth to finance myriad numbers of fake organizations --
from think tanks like Cato and Heritage Foundation -- to today's T-Baggers --

The GOP gave start up funding for the Christian Coalition --
Richard Scaife financed Dobson's organization -- and other rw wealthy funded Bauer's org.

The GOP radicalized the NRA and funded it to enable them to target not only liberals and
moderates in the Democratic Party, but also in the Republican Party.
Anyone remember how many gun-toters threatened Clinton - shooting from outside the White House?

The GOPs/"Pro-Lifers" introduced a new level of violence and political disruption -- and MURDER
into the political arena. Also brought many rw religious fanatics into government.

Their influence over government enabled them to take over government agencies to pave the way
for monopoly takeover by the corporate-press -- while also defunding/destroying public broadcasting.
The public has gotten little but rw propaganda as news for decades.

Officially now, public government has been replaced by corporatism -- and they continue to
privatize what's left of it -- further strengthing corporatism.

We should also note W's alliance with the Vatican which could be said to have corporate-like
interests. Was it simply coincidental that just as the Vatican most desperately needed $$$ to
pay off their pedophile lawsuits that W came thru with taxpayer funding for their "faith-based"
religious organizations? Catholic members were rising up in anger at the selling off of church
assets - churches, schools. Much of that seems to have calmed down since we began subsidizing
the Vatican.

9/11 scam paved the way for new perpetual wars -- a screen behind which America's wealth is stolen
and citizens' rights.

They've also had to find Judges for the SC who could be bought -- people they ultimately have
something on -- like Clarence Thomas and Scalia. Judges ready to do their dirty work for them.


As a little further background, anyone who doesn't know should look at Operation Paperclip
where Allen Dulles immediately after WWII brought in tens of thousands of Nazis and used them
to found the CIA -- many were also funneled into the FBI and other government agencies --
NASA, of course with Werner Von Braun.

The CIA -- heavily implicated in the coup on JFK -- has like Dulles/Prescott Bush taken money
from any right wing source -- including the KKK and Nazis. They used these funds to finance
the careers/campaigns of right wing members of Congress -- two I'm aware of are
Sen. Strom Thurmond and Rep. Gerald Ford. Allegedly, many more.
Pat Buchanan has also gotten money from the CIA.
GE - fat on military contracts -- played a large role in putting Pat Buchanan on the air/TV --
and keeping him there!!

OK -- so it's taken them more than 50 years to overturn the New Deal and gain total control of
our government -- and as the dirtier and dirtier deeds needed to be done, they have had to call
upon more of the bottom of the barrel of right wingers -- those more inclined to be verbally
and physically aggressive -- ready to carry guns to Town Hall Meetings.

The GOP computers have now have given them vast and illegitimate control over government and
our elections --

Do you think they want to take a chance on having to fund this all again -- or doing it all again?


A few other things are working against them -- Global Warming which is a growing and prominent
threat and no one can tell how and/or when this may all compound. Capitalists created this
disaster and certainly don't want to be held accountable for it.

The Internet is a growing theat as people come to realize we are all the same -- it's a liberal
nation -- and that we have to begin to unite.

They have succeeded by building wealth to buy elected officials and thus government --
and by uniting. That's the major disadvantage for citizens -- they are not united in any way.





The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[AlbertCat]

88. I recommended....

But the GOP stuff is way too complicated to decipher. It's a tangle that's been twisting for more than 30 years.

Personally, I think it smacks of hubris more than desperation. We know about the Koch Bro's because they made too big a splash.... and people noticed. But also, the GOP let the religious non-thinkers in and legitimized them and now cannot control them. Thinking people notice the crazy. Dems let the greed meme sink in too. All this makes today what it is. But when you have the Gulf on fire, and Japan glowing in the dark, and the government STILL gives out drilling permits and spends a pittance on renewable and green energy, people can't help but notice that kind of weirdness.

[cliffordu]

90. K&R for further discussion.....

[JackRiddler]

92. They've been in a war against the possibility of a socialist majority since the 1960s, actually.

The country was center-left by the late 1990s. The Republicans and the right wing went to enormous lengths to fix the 2000 election on behalf of Bush, and they still lost. Only the Florida coup and the post-9/11 brainwash caused a shift. But then capitalism itself failed in 2008, and don't ever let anyone forget it (they're trying very hard).

They perceive themselves as besieged, it is true. It's enough that they understand the potential for that to feel like it. They've been preparing for this struggle since the 1950s. The power elite decided in the 1960s that the people were their greatest enemy. They viewed it then and they view it today again as a life and death struggle, anything goes.

[bongo_x]

93. I’ve started thinking that too...

I think they have had long term, insidious plans and are starting to realize after all this careful buildup it’s just not going to work.

I’m thinking there might be a huge leftward swing in the next elections.

I live in Georgia and have been driving around with not at all subtle, but funny, anti tea party and socialist bumper stickers. I have been told several times that I was going to get a bad reaction. I have until this moment not heard one negative word. I do get constant honks and waves, and people asking me where I got them. Not from old hippies, from everyone, including white middle class soccer moms and businessmen. Bear in mind that during the 2004 elections I got people screaming at me just for having a Kerry sticker on my truck, many times.

[old mark]

95. K&R- I have little doubt they are fearful-the right spreads fear as a political tool,

and they end up believing their own bullshit.
Look at the ANGER and distrust they have managed to create for themselves since the newly elected GOPers took office not 3 months ago. A lot of those who voted for them already regret it, and there is a long way to go, so it will get worsefor them.

Recall that in the 1990's, Newt and Tom DeLay were bragging about the "Permanent Republican Majority"...and that never came to pass.

They are their own worst enemies, especially since the teabaggers took over.


mark

[LatteLibertine]

99. Personally,

I don't think they're scared at all. They knew we opposed the financial market "bail out" at a ratio of 100:1 and it made no difference. The savings and loan "crisis" set a precedent for that.

Some guy makes 100 million due to outright fraud. He may get fined 20 million and get to keep 80.

If people could go rob a bank and the only penalty was the government taking 15-20% from them, we'd likely see many more robberies.

[Armstead]

104. I agree to an extent -- But they can also be afraid that this immunity may soon be over

It is also possible that they are scared that their ability to acquire in the future -- as well as having to pay the piper for past behavior -- is threatened by a shift in both public attitudes and political action to make them accountable. In the present climate that is a possibility -- especially if the Democratic Party wakes up (although I trealize the latter is a big "if").

[sofa king]

100. I think it has everything to do with profits and peak oil.

First the basic premise: corporations save costs by becoming more efficient and better using their money; but they make profits from driving down labor costs. Efficiency and savvy investment at a time when all prices are rising in the face of forever-rising energy costs will only take you so far.

But jacking the little guy reaps instant rewards, both personally for the directors of the corporations, and to a lesser extent for the shareholders. Screwing the little guy is the only way to keep share prices high. Endlessly blackmailing the government for monetary concessions, and paying for it by pulling away our (already execrable) social safety net is all part of the plan.

Of course, they're greedily deflating the balloon, and every action against the peons (now some 70% of all Americans) makes them poorer, stupider, less easy to train, less loyal, and far more desperate. So costs rise, efficiency degrades, and institutional knowledge is forever lost. But the line to the main money vein will stay open until long past when the patient is beyond recovery.

So then they'll move on to someplace that hasn't yet been shaved to skin.

[JoseGaspar]

102. The problem with your analysis is that it attempts to personalize...

... what is in fact a social system. What may be puzzling from the standpoint of "Oligarchs", acting as people, is relatively straightforward when the issue is the behavior of that social system, independent of any one individual.

Taken in the context of capitalism, as a system, none of this is difficult. Economic competition and market dynamics are exclusively forward-looking. What happened yesterday is of little or no consequence. It merely sets the stage for what happens today. The system is driven, not just by yearly, but by quarterly results and each quarter reintroduces "life or death decisions", no matter what happened before. This fundamental criticism of capitalism has existed as long as the social system itself.

They need more shit from you, and what happened last year is immaterial.

"What have you done for me lately?"

[Armstead]

103. However, social systems ultimately are shaped by people

I can't disagree with your basic premise, in terms of the mechanics of capitalism.

However, any system is ultimately also shaped by the collective values and goals of people -- both collectively and individually. It is shaped by the decisions of the "upper" management and ownership, and by the values of what the majority of the middle and lower rungs will support and accept.

And, as inevitably there is also a pendulum swing back and forth, based on human actions and reactions.

In a balanced form of this, the hard-nosed mechanics of capitalism are kept in check. That includes a recognition of "social responsibility" by the upper and social and legal pressures on their behavior by the majority (and government as an extension of that). The upper also has to balance their basic greed and ruthless efficiency by the need for markets for their product. Henry Ford was a bastard. but he also recognized that his car company could only survive if the people making those cars could also afford to buy them.

What's happened over the last 35 years (or so) is that in the middle decades of the 20th century we had reached somewhat of a balance between the excesses of the mechanics of capitalism and both values and social/legal pressure that reined that in. As a result, the middle class began to expand, and corporations had to be better citizens.....NOT PERFECT BY ANY MEANS and there was still a long way to go. But it was at least moving in that direction.

However after the turmoil of the 1960's, and the economic difficulties of the 70's, Corporate America and the Oligarchs reverted to complete shittiness and greed. They began to push back at the advances of previous decades, and jettisoned their sense of social responsibility and citizenship.

Unfortunately, with their help, the majority also got caught up in the culture of greed. Partly this was the result of a very successful sales job by the corporate elites, expressed through CONservative politics and media. Average people were convinced to identify with the interests of the wealthy instead of with themselves and their peers. So they willingly enabled the Uppers to eat their lunch.

THis led to an unquestioned acceptance of economic goals and principles that would have been considered unthinkable just a few years earlier.

And the Oligarchs came to feel that they were entitled to this forever.

Now they see the pendulum beginning to swing back, and they fear losing their unrestrained power and accumulation of wealth.

[JoseGaspar]

105. I would tell you the opposite...

"However, any system is ultimately also shaped by the collective values and goals of people -- both collectively and individually. It is shaped by the decisions of the "upper" management and ownership, and by the values of what the majority of the middle and lower rungs will support and accept."

I would say that the collective values and goals of people -- both collectively and individually -- are shaped by their social system and not the other way around.

...Or, to say the same thing, what we think (and how we act) is entirely a product of our social system, while that social system is in no way a product of what we think. It is a very important "chicken or egg" question. Consider the history of it...

That applies no less to oligarchs than it does to "the middle and lower rungs".

[Armstead]

107. "Which come first?...."

I don't entirely disagree with you. But I do think there's more of a relationship than you do, and I believes it starts with human actions and reactions.

Any system is created (evolves) to meet a combination of social and individuals needs for better and for worse. They all stem from human interactions as well as circumstances. There has always been tug of wars between both how to meet larger needs and those of particular individuals or groups....Most systems also involved trade-offs between such things as freedom and security, the need to keep workers alive, etc....The trade offs may not always be voluntary -- i.e. slavery -- but it all reflects both goals and values as well as what people are ultimately willing to put up with. On tyhe most basic level, a slave can still choose to rebel rather than remain enslaved -- even if it is in the form of suicide.

Although society and economic/political/social systems on a large scale, they are still governed by this mix of human choices.

To be somewhat more specific, there WERE human constraints put on the excessive and abusive tendencies of capitalism in the mid 20th century. Ultimately those consytraints were removed both because those at the top were rattled by the challenges to them and they grit their teeth and turned to the shittier side of their values. As a result, this caused systemic changes -- but they were driven by such human forces as raw greed, arrogance and loss of social morality.

However they would not have been able to turn things as they did without the acquiescence of the majority of the population. This was done both blatantly through propaganda that appealed to the baser side of people -- and they turned on the fear -- that CONned people into supporting their agenda.

BUT -- the important but -- they would not have gotten away with it if the rest of society did not acquiesce. At any point in the process, it was -- IS -- possible for a critical mass of people to say "This is bullshit" and put various forms of pressure against them.

The point of my OP is that it is possible (and I admit is is just a possibility, not a given fact yet) that more people are starting to reach the "This is bullhit" stage -- which woiuld translate into laws, political action and genersal public pressure to rein the bastards in. Not necessarily to eliminate them or the system, but to restore a balance and push in a better direction at the expense of the oligarchs.

[Marr]

111. What do they have to be scared of? Another parade?

A ironic bumper sticker? The American public has proven that it will take just about any abuse the corporate elite dishes out, and fall for just about any ruse.

I think they're pushing because that's what they always do. If the pressure and speed seems to have amped up, I'd be inclined to interpret it as the monied class cynically hoovering up the last bits of national wealth before the facade really wears away and the suckers are left with a hollowed-out slum.