Army Told Not to Use Israeli Bullets in Iraq

[ECH1969]

Israeli-made bullets bought by the U.S. Army to plug a shortfall should be used for training only, not to fight Muslim guerrillas in Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. lawmakers told Army generals on Thursday.

Since the Army has other stockpiled ammunition, "by no means, under any circumstances should a round (from Israel) be utilized," said Rep. Neil Abercrombie of Hawaii, the top Democrat on a House of Representatives Armed Services subcommittee with jurisdiction over land forces.

The Army contracted with Israel Military Industries Ltd. in December for $70 million in small-caliber ammunition.

The Israeli firm was one of only two worldwide that could meet U.S. technical specifications and delivery needs, said Brig. Gen. Paul Izzo, the Army's program executive officer for ammunition. The other was East Alton, Illinois-based Winchester Ammunition, which also received a $70 million contract.

http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/411289|top|06-24-2004::18:06|reuters.html

[Demeter]

1. Why? Because It Isn't Kosher?

This is absurd. Bullets are fungible; not labelled with little blue and white flags!

[Kagemusha]

3. Probably as much the principle of not using foreign ammo in war

as anything else.

And it's just unnecessary bad PR.

Not like at this point the PR can get much worse.

[shance]

10. Considering most weapons are Made in the USA on both sides, shows what

war game this is for those at the top at the expense of everyone else who they force to play their planet destroying games.

Iraqi weapons = American/British made
American weapons = American/British/Israeli made

Hmmm......guess who profits?

****

[Pavulon]

14. Wrong

Iraqis are using the AK variants. Purchased from Russia (and other com bloc nations) direct or through arms dealers.

The US is not supplying the Iraqi army with US equipment. Their police we are arming are using AKs.

[K-W]

17. Most of the Iraqi weapons are former warsaw pact.

Including the police and soldiers who are are primarily armed with older equipment. There is some US weaponry being given to the Iraqi's but by no means a majority.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/nia-equipment.htm

[cantstandbush]

26. Did they also tell the Israeli sp. ops inside Iraq to go home? n/t

[Hand]

7. Here's my guess...

It's not the actual bullets (the piece that comes out the barrel) so much as the cartridge casings, which fall on the ground during use and that carry Israeli Military Industries markings. That could be exploited after a battle as propaganda, either to claim that Israeli forces were operating in Iraq or just to allow headlines such as "Iraqis being killed by Israeli bullets!", which would be accurate.

I suspect that this has already happened, and they're now trying to get the toothpaste back in the tube.

[Eugene]

24. self delete

[HereSince1628]

2. Were soldiers reminded not to grease bullets with pig fat, too?

All these little diplomatic niceties must be attended.

[Pavulon]

8. Malfunction

I'm sure someone has tried it. Really. I would not because grease attracts dirt and dirt makes weapons jam.

[HereSince1628]

11. It's about getting pig bits inside a Muslim

I believe that it was something that the British were accused of in India.

Now that Iraq has descended into a religious conflict I expect similar charges to make their rounds.

[Pavulon]

12. Old UL

Gen. Pershing was supposed to have used this tactics on moros (muslims). Dipped 45 ammo on pigs blood, executed people, and made the point.

It is probably UL. I can tell you that the 5.56 round screaming out of the m-16 is pretty much sterile. Had it been dipped in blood or lard it would burn off.

The case, however, may not be clean. Leaving the operator with a single shot rifle.

I bet a 45 would cycle with nasty lard covered ammo, an m-16, who knows? Wouldn't bet my ass on it.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. saving them for Iran.

and Syria.
and Afghanistan

[MindPilot]

5. Is this really as dumb as it sounds?

Does the manufacturer of the bullet that blows one's brains out make a difference? Does Allah say, "Weeellll, I see here you were killed with an Israeli bullet, you get 50% more virgins!"

[entanglement]

13. Aren't Allah and Yahweh are the same bearded guy?

:hide:

[K-W]

15. I believe the term is adding insult to injury.

The insurgency in Iraq is fueled by hatred and resentment of US troops in Iraq, anything, even small, that adds emotional charge to the situation is bound to fuel the insurgency.

[Pavulon]

16. No

This is bullshit that wastes money and time. IMI supplied NATO rounds since early 90's. They made ammo when I was in.

The insurgents will hate us whatever. Even if we use Saudi ammo, we are still going to be the enemy to them.

[K-W]

18. What is bullshit exactly?

Insult to injury, salt in a wound. A small action added to a larger action can magnify resentment, anger, and hatred.

This is bullshit that wastes money and time.

Maybe, or maybe not. That all depends on the logistics situation. One would weigh the neccessity of using Israeli equipment with the possible social effect. Very possibly it isnt worth the trouble, it might be, but one would be an idiot to refuse to take Iraqi reactions into account.

The insurgents will hate us whatever. Even if we use Saudi ammo, we are still going to be the enemy to them.

The insurgents arent a set number of anti-americans who will fight the US no matter where they go and no matter what happens, these insurgents in fact make up only a tiny percentage of the insurgency. Any action by the US that increases hatred or resentment of US troops is libel to increase the insurgency and more importantly, increase sympathy with the insurgency amongst the general population.

And yes, potentially something like this isnt that big of a deal, it is also possible that not using Israeli ammo isn't that big of a deal to the military. I personally have no idea, but I certainly wont argue that we should ignore how Iraqi's will feel about our actions not only because how Iraqi's feel about the occupation does have a great deal to do with the strength of the insurgency.

[Pavulon]

20. I see the reason behind

this. But the military is not asking for this.

It will take time and money because logistics in not organized in a way to classify small arms ammo into a category like this. It is given a designator and put out in the system. It would take months to change this if dictated right now. God knows how many millions of rounds are in the pipe. It may e traceable by lot and manufacturer for the purpose of recall and failure study but this does not mean that that it could be easily organized this way.

I have not seen a 5.56 case in almost 10 years but I do not remember a star of david on any of the ammo.

[Pavulon]

6. Ha ha.

Coming from a former supply guy I can tell you that small arms ammo is not marked US and Evil Jew Zionist ammo.

The guy catching the round, I'm sure, would be happy to know that he was not tagged with a Zionist round while he bleeds out.

This has to be the stupidest thing all day.

The muj. in Afghanistan used ordinance from IMI to kill russians.

[wtmusic]

9. They're not as dead when you use Winchester nt

[zbdent]

19. You know, the Muslims could also coat their bullets with pig's blood

to shoot Israelis, too . . . like the infamous (but not true) "American General" . . .

[peacetalksforall]

21. I am really surprised at the reactions here. First we invade a country

causing them to hate us and when we bring death to them we use bullets of their long standing enemy? Their enemy who causes fellow Moslems, the Palestinians, to get out of the way for them and who wreak havoc on their lives.

I'm sure Moslems just love it when their child or sibling or parent gets killed with an Israeli bullet. And there doctors probably enjoy removing Israeli bullets.

Insult upon insult.

The more common you make the insult, the more you bolster hate because the common denominator of insult is bared and in other cultures, messages are sent that we can't grasp because of our bull like lack of some their sensitivities as is demonstrated and used every day by our administration.

[Pavulon]

22. The bullet

has no mark. Lake City makes the majority of the ammo we use anyway.

Choosing non-jew ammo to kill people is not a 'sensitivity'. They are using IMI as an overflow.

I'm sure if they were to coma across a crate of advanced israeli shoulder fired AA missiles they would not use them?

This is silly.

EDIT fyi I am using the term JEW ammo to underscore the real reasons behind this, not to be anti semitic.

[peacetalksforall]

25. We don't communicate. nt

[DS1]

23. This is ANCIENT news, and should be locked as such