Shooting occurs on campus of Shepherd University

[mahatmakanejeeves]

This is in Sheperdstown WV. It was reported just a few minutes ago by Fox 5 WTTG in DC.

I will tolerate no flames for watching the Fox affiliate in DC, as I am a long time viewer of channel 5. Also, it's running the news right now, and no other station in DC is doing that.

WTTG

Edited to change title, correct spelling, and add links.

Shooting occurs on campus of Shepherd University

Shepherdstown, WV--At 2 p.m. today (September 2) a shooting occurred on the campus of Shepherd University in a parking lot. The shooter was a male who shot two other males and then shot himself. All three are dead. IDs have not been released by the West Virginia State Police.

WBOY (Clarksburg/Fairmont) Shooting on WV College Campus

[MADem]

1. Shooting occurs on campus of Shepherd University

Shooting occurs on campus of Shepherd University

Shepherdstown, WV--At 2 p.m. today (September 2) a shooting occurred on the campus of Shepherd University in a parking lot. The shooter was a male who shot two other males and then shot himself. All three are dead. IDs have not been released by the West Virginia State Police.

Shepherd University President David L. Dunlop stated, "We are stunned to hear about this terrible tragedy. The West Virginia State Police are handling this case, and we want to emphasize that there is no continuing threat to any other students. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims."

Details about the crime will be released by the West Virginia State Police.

Counselors will be available to talk with students tonight at the Butcher Center at 6 p.m. http://www.shepherd.edu/university/releases/2006/shooting.html

[k8conant]

2. Shepherd is 15 miles from us...

.
It's strange to hear that first here on DU.

[LiberalVoice]

3. I heard about our mayor here in pittsburgh dieing on DU last night. nt

[mahatmakanejeeves]

5. It just came on

while I was sitting at the computer. I posted the news to a police scanner enthusiast group and nearly simultaneously posted it here as well.

My father's family is from Loudoun County VA. I have been to Shepherdstown of course, though not in quite a few years.

This is quite out of the ordinary for Shepherdstown.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

31. It's so beautiful there...so peaceful...

You just don't expect to hear something like this.

[aikoaiko]

4. Damn shame.

I work at a university and it just makes me sick that we aren't permitted to carry a weapon to defend ourselves from asshats like this guy. Sitting ducks.

[NOLADEM]

6. Ah yes, more guns is the answer (sarcasm)

Sad source of comfort.

Even if you have a gun, it doesn't really protect you from random crime. Do you really think this guy would have given you the three seconds you would need to pull your gun from your desk/holster and cock, point, turn off safety and shoot. Nope. You are already dead.

Guns are not a force field.

Bringing a gun to your university would make it less safe, not more.

If it is your time to die, you die. That is all.

[Township75]

9. Well apparently...

the two guys that this weirdo shot took your advice and didn't bring a gun to school...now they are dead.

I am not convinced being armed would have saved them, but being unarmed sure as hell did NOT save them.

[zanne]

15. Well, that post was inevitable.

Some people will always find a good reason to own guns. Always.

[Township75]

33. Well, that post was inevitable.

Some people will always find a good reason to not own guns. Always.

[aikoaiko]

34. "Bringing a gun to your university would make it less safe"

But thats the point, someone (the bad guy) did bring a gun to campus and it was unsafe. Unfortunately, only the bad guy had one.

Maybe the killer was obvious and maybe not -- you and I don't know if the victims or someone near the victims could have drawn their weapons in time to save a life or not. But since none of the good guys on campus had one (except the police, presumably), the bad guy was the only one.

OF course, guns are not a force field, but they are forceful when used properly.

If its your time to die, you die? If thats your philosophy so be it. I choose to fight for my life.

[krispos42]

59. A couple of years ago two college students stopped a rampage

They had guns in their trunks, and when some nutjob showed up and began killing people, they got them and held the shooter at gunpoint until other students tackled him. He was held until the cops showed up. But that was not mentioned in the CNN story.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/1/25/153427.shtml
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/17/law.school.shooting/index.html

We know the corporate media can edit stories to achieve certain perspectives, and they can do it for either side. Usually it seems to be done for the Rupubs, but not always.

The NRA magazine, "American Rifleman", has a page devoted to defensive gun uses and they run three or four stories a month about it. I don't belong to the NRA and probably never will, but my in-laws would get the magazines given to them by church members and I would read them. It's too bad; the magazine is pretty informative but I'm not going to join what is basically a lobbying organization. What is is, 63 lobbyists in DC for every member of Congress? Disgusting.

http://www.nrapublications.org/armed%20citizen/Index.asp

There seems to be evidence that widespread legal concealed carry does not reduce overall crime rates (although even "widespread" involves only a tiny fraction of the population), but it does reduce your own personal crime rate.

The government estimates that between 108,000 and 2.5 million incidences per year of defensive gun uses. That does not mean a shooting, but merely that a gun was grabbed in self-defense. The huge gap between the two numbers shows that they really have no idea how many times a DGU happens, but that the vast majority of them go unreported, either because nothing happened or the person polled was at the time carrying illegally and didn't dare call the police, honest citizen or no.

You claim that people can never bring a gun to bear fast enough to be any good, so why bother, right? Well, a lot depends on the circumstances and how alert you are to your environment, as well as how the crime is developing. If a person is being shadowed, that person might deside it's a good idea to scratch his or her back and "accidently" show the butt of a pistol to the perpetrator. The perp, made out and facing an armed suspect, decides to back down and find easier prey.

Then again, the gun may be taken from you and used against you, especially if the attack is a surprise.

The rule here is that if you are not sure of your ability to defend yourself, you shouldn't carry.

It's a complex thing and you are exactly right, it is not a force field. It may or may not help, much like a car's airbag.

[PSPS]

7. Yeah, that's the ticket.

What we need are schools with armed teachers! Why not just have an automatic rifle slung over every employee's back? You could even make "skins" for them imprinted with the school mascot.

Yeah, that's a great idea.

[michreject]

8. Actually it is a good idea

If the gunman knew that there was a possibility of an armed encounter, he wouldn't be so eager to start a shooting spree.

[brentspeak]

13. That doesn't apply when the situation involves people bent on

committing a massacre. Those people know in advance they will be dead after all is said and done. Just like in this case. Knowing that someone might have a gun will not dissuade psychos from going on a shooting spree.

[michreject]

41. But the death toll wouldn't be as high

for the innocents. At least they would have had a chance.

[Speaker]

57. LOL

Knowing that someone might have a gun will not dissuade psychos from going on a shooting spree.

Neither will outlawing guns.

[billbuckhead]

14. How do you know he wouldn't enjoy killing gun owners even more?

USA leading all industrialized nations in murder, gun deaths and incarceration!

[michreject]

42. Still preaching

that same ole bullshit. It was bullshit in the gungeon and it's bullshit here.

We are not in another country. We're here. The danger is here. The constitutional right is here.

And no I will not debate the last statement.

[billbuckhead]

56. The danger is here because we have weak gun laws that allow the danger

It's obvious to all who will see.

[salin]

18. Perhaps in some cases, however in this one

it seems that suicide was part of the intent - thus the possibility of an armed encounter doesn't seem to me to be a likely deterent in this scenario.

The "more guns/less guns" discussion is side point, imo. What a fricken tragedy. Tragic. What drives a father to kill his sons than himself? That is the question that seems important to understand - and then to deal with how that could have been prevented (as in - could that give insight into how to prevent another such tragedy from happening?)

[merh]

20. that's hogwash

Folks that murder other folks know they could face the death penalty, but at the moment of the killing, it matters not.

The thread of violence does not thwart violence. If gunmen knew there was a possibility of an armed encounter, they would just carry bigger guns or more guns.

And a belated welcome to DU :hi:

[michreject]

43. Thanks.

Although we disagree on the value of guns in society, I do value your opinion.

[merh]

51. We don't disagree on the value of guns in society

we disagree on the danger of guns in society.

I believe in everyone's right to own a firearm, but I also recognize the need to regulate the weapon that is owened and how the weapon is obtained and how it is utilized.

[SquireJons]

25. Twisted Logic

Back in the old west, everyone was armed, and that did not create a civil society. Crime, murder and other violence were rampant, and it took many decades, and the rule of law to tame the people. More guns inevitably leads to more gun deaths. yes, some innocent people would be saved, but many more would be dead through anger, jealousy, greed and stupidity.

[clu]

27. nice post

i'm as far left as you can get, but i still support concealed weapons laws for law-abiding citizens. despite that, i agree that a prevalence of weapons will not dissuade those committed to a massacre. it may help people end such situations faster, but as you noted, others will misuse their liberty to carry a weapon. what to do?

[aikoaiko]

39. maybe, but today you hardly every hear about a licensed or permitted CCW

killing people in concealed carry situations (outside their home where they don't need a CCW permit).

[Speaker]

58. Crime, murder and other violence were rampant,....

Uhhhh... No!

That's why Billy the Kid is legendary for supposedly killing 21 dudes. That was almost unheard of.

In modern society, killing 21 dudes is no big deal.

We are much more violent now that the victims don't get a chance to shoot back.

[aikoaiko]

35. I can see the idea of a teacher being armed is strange to you..

... but its really not a bad idea. Maybe its not for everyone, but it for those who are so inclined it might save lives in the long run. Remember, the teachers are generally not the ones shooting kids at schools.

[xchrom]

12. what good will the gun do when said asshat walks

up and shoots you dead?

[aikoaiko]

36. look at the columbine videos

They walked into campus with guns in their hands on their shoulders. People could see them coming and the shooting spree took a while. Had teachers had guns, the spree might have ended sooner.

I know being armed is not magical protection and its a huge responsibility, but there are teachers and professors capable of carrying and using them if needed.

Right now, laws prevents it from happening.

[xchrom]

60. then when teachers have a bad day and lose their minds

they can shoot the children.

that's the problem with humans -- you can't trust them not to go off the deep end at a moments notice -- and shoot people up.

it's why we have the police.

and as far as SEEING the guns -- as a victim of several crimes involving guns -- i didn't EVER see a gun until it was too late to do anything about it.

[michreject]

44. Hopefully there's more than one

teacher that's armed.

[merh]

23. I don't know, if it were me at the university and my dad came to visit

I DOUBT I WOULD BE CARRYING IT when I was visiting with him. What a friggin stupid position to take given the subject to this thread.

Maybe weapons aren't allowed on university campuses because of crazy kooks that go to watch towers and take out dozens of folks.

Come to think of it, all those cops who had guns during the incident with the watch tower couldn't stop the shootings for several hours.

:shrug:

[aikoaiko]

37. Yes, the kooks, the written laws clearly stopped them,

and this shooter at Shepherd, the written law didn't stop him either.

And the guy in tower at UT, its people with guns who stopped him.

So clearly, relying on the written law to prevent asshats shooting people on campus is not working, and the asshat in the tower was defeated by people on campus with guns, and yet, you think my position is stupid.

Good thinking. :sarcasm:

[sandnsea]

45. The police stopped him

People went home and got their guns, but it was the police that made their way to the tower and observation deck and eventually killed him. So nice try, but no, an armed campus is not going to reduce violent crime any more than an armed US population has reduced violent crime, unlike the rest of the world who gets to live without the constant drumming of fear and death and mayhem.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/whitman/tower_6.html

[aikoaiko]

47. I suppose I think of police as people.... how about you....

my point is that other people are good guys too and can of assistance in those situations.

If guns are permitted in society around a college, then they are going to come on to college by the bad guys. The lawful people won't carry them. That situation just makes people sitting ducks on campus.

[sandnsea]

48. I think of them as PROFESSIONALS

Trained to use appropriate force, knowing when to shoot and when to avoid taking innocent life in crossfire, knowing when to use negotiators, having the expertise to let the sharp-shooters take over, etc. Your way is pure idiocy. Go to Iraq if you want to live in a society where everybody has a gun and uses eye for an eye wild west justice.

[aikoaiko]

50. Ah yes, leave it for the professionals....

...a lot of good waiting for the professionals does when things happen fast.

Given the number of guns in the US and the number of murders, Americans are the model of restraint.

[sandnsea]

53. Let me get this straight

The professionals are the ones who actually killed your UT tower shooter, but let's not leave safety to professionals. Is that what you're saying?? Let's have a free for all, which is the exact mentality that's causing the massive number of murders in this country, which you would pretend to be concerned about. I don't know what makes the vengeance seekers tick, but it sure isn't safety or security.

[aikoaiko]

54. Let me put it this way....

If someone was holding me hostage and pointing a gun at me and there was an ordinary civilian and a police officer nearby, yes, I would want the civilian to defer to the police officer. But police are often not around when criminals use guns to terrorize, hurt or kill others, but, often, there are other civilians near by. I'd rather they try to save me than wait for a call to be made and police to come around. Regular folk helping regular folk --- there's nothing more democratic.

Maybe you feel differently --so be it. This is why we're talking about it. There are different points of view on the matter with different associated costs and benefits.

It absolutely stuns me that you bring up vengeance in this discussion. Vengeance has nothing to do with using lethal force to stop someone from shooting someone else.

I'll let you have the last word. I'm sure we won't cover new ground.

[sandnsea]

55. Except crime doesn't work that way

There usually isn't anybody around when a crime is being committed so the whole concept of needing guns to stop crime is ridiculous. It's an excuse for the vigilante vengeance minded to strap on some false bravado and pretend they're saving the little woman or protecting the land of the free from government tyranny. Same reason they love that death penalty and 3 strikes and boot straps and nukin' the middle east. Most people live in very safe communities and neighborhoods, have absolutely no need to ever own a gun, and the only time their guns will be used in relation to a crime is when they're stolen and transported to some drug infested neighborhood and sold for $50. So that those same gun owners can get on their high horse about having to pay taxes for the cops and prisons to fight the crime caused by their own stupid guns and their own money that buys the drugs that they lock other people up over. Sick of the whole stupid stinking mess.

[Virginia Dare]

10. Terrible tragedy....

how sad for the students, faculty and residents of that lovely town. No flames for the source, they are very good for local news.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

11. I've been watching channel 5

since it was part of the DuMont network. No kidding. In fact, I watched this DuMont affiliate on a DuMont TV.

Rupert Murdoch is trying to augment the branding of the Fox affiliates by such acts as adding logos to the screen. I feel this detracts from channel 5's character. I'm not sure that the staff shares the enthusiasm.

DuMont Television Network

[Redstone]

16. Police: Dad kills sons, self on campus visit

"SHEPHERDSTOWN, West Virginia (AP) -- A father and his two sons died Saturday in an apparent murder-suicide at Shepherd University, authorities said.

Douglas W. Pennington, 49, shot sons Logan, 26, and Benjamin, 24, before shooting himself with a .38 caliber revolver on the university campus, state police said. Both sons were identified as Shepherd students.

Police said the elder Pennington traveled to the campus to visit his sons, but authorities offered no reason for the shootings.

From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/02/university.shooting.ap/index.html

Guns, guns, we need more guns in this country! Everybody should have a gun!

Redstone

[merh]

17. We need better health care

we need hope :cry:

:hug:


:loveya:

[Redstone]

19. Yes, we do. But apparently some people here at DU feel that what

we REALLY need is for everyone to have a gun.

Nothing else matters. All we need is more guns, according to them. You've read the posts upthread.

Sorry, but this gun worship sickens me. We'll never have better health care, nor will we have any hope, when those two issues are subsumed by gun worship.

Redstone

[merh]

21. Not that many, my friend, just the few vocal ones that feel

inadequate without one.

Our administration has done a great job of scaring the hell out of our fellow citizens.
Sadly, too many think that carrying a gun will protect them from life's tragedies and
they feel safer with a weapon. I don't really understand it, when I used to have to carry
a weapon, I felt unsafe, I knew how to fire it, had a decent aim and knew about the properly
handling and cleaning, but I never felt safe with it. It was just a big sign of violence
to me and I was glad when stopped having to wear it.

Never give up hope, Redstone, we can't afford to. :hug:

[Redstone]

22. I'll not ever give up hope. Not as long as there are people as strong

as you and your neighbors in America.

Redstone

[OzarkDem]

38. More care for mental illness, fewer guns

Though someone with mental illness will still find a way to commit dastardly deeds. One recent example is the father who threw his sons over the balcony of the hotel the family was staying in.

[aikoaiko]

40. If the choices are gun worship or ... how should I describe you.....

...gunphobia...

..gun timidness...

...desirous of being a victim...

...I'll take the gun worship label.


Or maybe its just not useful to disparage with hyperbole.

[sandnsea]

46. It's the mentality that's sad

The hatred, the human disregard we see with the gulf, the near zeal with the death penalty, all of it. That's why it's so easy for this country to go to war. It's fucked up for sure.

[LeftyMom]

49. What we need

is to start locking the Gungeon from the outside. ;)

[aikoaiko]

52. ;-)

[SquireJons]

24. WTTG

Used to be the best station in the D.C. market. Great sports coverage. I was sorry when they were bought out by Fox.

[DeaconBlues]

26. I got my B.A. at sleepy little Shepherd

And its the last school i would expect something like this to happen. Then again, I guess it can happen anywhere....

[mahatmakanejeeves]

28. "the last school i would expect something like this to happen"

My thought too.

Do you recall the law school in Grundy VA where there was a shooting in 2002? (I was surprised to learn it had been that long ago.)

Google for "grundy law school shooting"

[DeaconBlues]

32. No, I've never heard of the Grundy incident

I just moved back to the Virginias after a number of years out of the area, and haven't been keeping track of local events.

It seems that horrible things can happen in the most beautiful of places.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

29. From Sunday's WaPo

Man Kills 2 Sons, Himself At University in W.Va.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

30. Oh how awful...

:cry: