Breaking on BBC World TV: US nuke sub and Japanese tanker collide

[bigworld]

... just saw the scroller, more to come....

[havocmom]

1. Was there some corporate big wig at the helm of the sub again?

[illinoisprogressive]

2. what up today??? In malibu there is a raging fire, a strange smell

in NY, a chemical leak in sugarland tx and the cia bombed a target in somalia....

[villager]

4. it's the damndest, weirdest day, news-wise

n/t

[Cleita]

5. Don't forget all the dead birds in Austin, Texas. n/t

[Ilsa]

9. Tanker at plant in Sugar Land TX emitting dangerous fumes; smell in

NYC and NJ. Probably others.

Hey, I just crawled out from under a week of creepy techno-problems, like I had gremlins working against me at every turn, and anyone who came into contact with me. Phones, email, email again, laptop, bluetooth on phone, husband's phone, consultant who left her laptop in my home and had to drive back from central Tx to retrieve it. If there was a chip in it, it didn't work right.

[Megahurtz]

71. Now THAT'S a Weird One. n/t

[marmar]

8. The Rapture?

The fundies were right!!! :scared: :scared: :scared:

[tblue]

10. I've got dibs on Pat Robertson's Rolls!

[trashcanistanista]

13. I was thinking the same thing

What's next? Better not interfere with Stewart Colbert tonight! Any more news, let's just get it over with now please.

[villager]

3. tell that sub to "surge" right out of there!

n/t

[cal04]

6. US nuclear sub and Japanese tanker collide

A US nuclear submarine and a Japanese tanker have collided in the Arabian Sea, Kyodo News agency and Reuters have reported.

The submarine struck a commercial vessel, Kyodo said, citing an official quoting information from the US side. There was no immediate word about injuries.

Reuters quoted a Japanese defence ministry spokesman as saying the ministry was investigating the incident but no other details were immediately available.

A Pentagon spokesman confirmed a US sub and a Japanese merchant ship had collided south of the Straits of Hormuz, near the Arabian Sea.

- more to follow
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21032661-1702,00.html

[Scurrilous]

7. U.S. sub, Japan tanker collide in Arabia Sea: Japan

"A U.S. nuclear submarine and a Japanese tanker have collided in the Arabian Sea, a Japanese defense ministry spokesman said on Tuesday.

The spokesman said the ministry was investigating the incident but no other details were immediately available."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070109/ts_nm/japan_usa_collision_dc_1

[hang a left]

11. You have the other thread beaten by a minute.

They should combine threads so that there is one place for updates.

[cui bono]

12. Now we MUST attack Iran!!!

:sarcasm:

[DemoTex]

14. U.S. submarine collides with a Japanese merchant vessel (CNN BREAKING)

A U.S. submarine collides with a Japanese merchant vessel, a U.S. Navy
official tells CNN, adding there were no injuries but there was damage.

CNN EMAIL BREAKING NEWS
www.cnn.com

[IndianaGreen]

15. Again!

We sank a fishing boat before.

[ixion]

17. yep, that's twice now...

what, with all the sonar on there, they don't know if there are boats above them? :shrug: :dunce:

[VTMechEngr]

25. Wait for the story - you don't have any facts

The previous incident was an emergency blow exercise, during which the Sub has little control of its direction as it pops to the surface. They blow all the tanks and the sub just shoots right out of the ocean like a soda bottle full of air would when released from under the water.

However, collisions usually occur on the surface, where the sub rides low on the water, is dark colored, and hard to see. The sub may very well have been on the surface.

[DemoTex]

32. We have plenty of facts on the previous incident.

An "emergency blow" exercise with the "little control of its direction as it pops to the surface" that resulted in deaths in 2001 should have been referred to a Grand Jury.

[VTMechEngr]

33. I was implying the current incident.

But as for the previous post - I don't disagree with your opinion, but Sonar would not have saved them during the blow.

[krispos42]

64. The tanker might not have seen the sub

But the sub damn sure should have known where a giant supertanker is. Their sonars can hear a shrimp fart at 30 miles, and they have active radars and passive multiband radio receivers and radar detectors. And they have computers that can identify any ship on the planet by engine noise, determine the ship's speed by propeller RPM, and calculate ranges and bearings based on apparent motion. Submarines also have periscopes with laser rangefinders built into them.

The sub, the USS Newport News, hit the stern of the tanker with her bow, right where the sonar is. The tanker wasn't in the baffles of the submarine. The tanker was en route to pick up crude, so she had a shallow draft. The Newport News had to be surfaces for damn near so to hit the tanker. God have mercy on the sub's skipper if he was trying to be cute and sneak underneath the tanker.

The tanker should have had absolutely no idea that sub even existed. And that sub should have known the location, course, and speed of every vessel within 40 miles.

[DemoTex]

18. Enron again?

Enron contributors were at the helm on the fiasco to which you refer, IIRC.

[aquart]

28. That was how BushCo began.

Be nice if this is how it ends.

[GregW]

16. Dumbya's oil buddies are joy riding again???

:eyes:

[Dinger]

62. I Plead Ignorance. What Do You Mean Again? (nt)

[hang a left]

19. Is it true that it was a nuke sub??????

:scared:

[DemoTex]

21. I think all the US subs are nuke-powered now.

Any Navy experts out there?

[VTMechEngr]

26. Yes all US navy submarines are Nuclear.

But relax - The Navy doesn't build them like the Russians. The US Navy takes pride in its record with Nuclear power.

[Patriought]

29. With a few exceptions...

All U.S. Subs are nuclear (or if W's reading this "newk-lir") except for various deep-sea research or rescue vehicles. Although I've heard tell that there may have been some research into A.I.P. (air independent propulsion) technology, which is used quite a bit by german and danish navies. (That's sort of a traditional diesel-electric sub that carries a tank of compressed oxygen so it doesn't have to snorkel to recharge it's batteries)

[Captain Hilts]

34. AIP uses hydrogen or liquid oxygen, which is stored in tanks outside the hull...EVERYONE...

is looking into AIP technology except for the United States...

Nukes are great for under the ice cap and for chasing folks across an ocean, but for closer in, other forms of propulsion are better.

[VTMechEngr]

36. Most other countries are only interested in local defense.

The US sends its ships across the globe, and only Nuclear power can effectively do that. And we do it because we depend on the seas for our trade and resources.

[Henny Penny]

66. You mean other people's resources! n/t

[VTMechEngr]

72. No. Raw resources that we purchase.

Without shipments of various minerals and metals, our industries would shut down completely.

[burrowowl]

44. Ice Cap? Ice Cap!

Soon there will be no ICE CAP!

[Captain Hilts]

50. The USN and RN have had a hell of a time keeping up with the changes. nt

[DemoTex]

35. Thanks Patriought!

Let me be the first to welcome you to DU!

Mac

[MADem]

43. Now, now, now, that's Nuuu-kew-ler, gotta use all three syllables!!! NT

[MADem]

41. It was the NEWPORT NEWS, and all our subs are nuke, save those teeny ones we have for rescues

...and they don't count against the inventory of what we actually CALL a 'sub.'

[Warpy]

20. SHIT! Not again! Were there junketing

GOP donors aboard this time, too?

[MADem]

42. Not in the Gulf. They were operational at the time, not shaking down or playing. NT

[tblue]

22. The US will not stop until it's pissed off every nation on the planet. So many countries, so little

time.

[DemoTex]

24. Maybe so: But one thing is for sure ..

A sub skipper is out of a job and a career tonight.

[Monkeyman]

30. Yep or dry docked

[Jackpine Radical]

23. Cheney was on board.

He made them surface to look for low-flying ducks.

[Captain Hilts]

39. He's shooting cage-raised birds today, as a matter of fact. Outside Pittsburgh. nt

[hang a left]

27. Made me pull out my atlas

The Arabian Sea has Yemen and Oman on the North, and Somalia on the South.

WTH is going on??????

Freaky day!

[DemoTex]

31. Indeed!

I just walked Nick-Nick and all the stars were still in the heavens, so I guess everything is OK. Actually, Betelgeuse was a little redder than normal.

[nealmhughes]

37. It is extremely hard to control a sub on the surface, especially in bad weather and heavy seas.

They are designed for underwater navigation. The hull is round at the bottom making for horrid sea states for the crew when on the surface, while a hurricane can be atop when one is submerged and you not even know it.
US Navy subs rarely if ever use active sonar. They use radar on the surface, lookouts with binoculars and the scope. On the surface, when rigged for surface, the sub has a flashing yellow light, which is the intl. submarine signal, which basicly means "I'm a great big slow lumbering unmaneuverable behomoth, watch out!" and subs should have the right of way to surface vessels.
All active duty US subs are nuclear, all of the SSN and SSBN classes, that is, not necessarily the experimental and deep sea vehicles.
SSN subs are the "hunter-killers" in Brititsh terminology, and their job is to use their torpedos to take out any hostile SSBN (nuclear missile subs) that might be preparing to launch or else to engage surface ships. They also launch Tomahawk missiles.
I have never been sicker in my life than on the surface off the Isles of Shoals off Portsmouth NH in 2001 on Alpha Sea Trials on the Kamehameha, with state 6 seas and unable to dive for 2 days! On the other hand, give me test depth for a week any day of the week!
Anything else and I would have to kill you and then myself, except I miss Victoria cookies, which those who ran out of the Holy Loch will remember with fondness...

[Captain Hilts]

38. I rode on a diesil one. Dad said you could feel a hurricane a couple hundred feet down.

But, especially as they have only one screw, modern submarines are not very maneuverable on the surface. The diesils had two screws and could turn on a dime.

[VTMechEngr]

40. Was he in a Guppy mod boat?

[Captain Hilts]

48. Guppy IA in this photograph

[nealmhughes]

45. A couple of hundred feet, why you probably could...that's why a couple of hundred

feet is for boys and old time diesel boat sailors!}(

[VTMechEngr]

47. If it was a Guppy Mod boat -

Then it was a converted Gato/Baloa/Tench class boat leftover from WWII. They only had a diving depth of 400 feet max (Balao/Tench). Guppy was the Greater Underwater Propulsive Power mods. They retired the last Guppy in 1975.

[Captain Hilts]

49. USS Tiru, I believe. Outta Charleston. nt

[VTMechEngr]

53. Nice. Old Balao class.

Its a shame so few have survived. And the non-Guppy ones are even rarer.

[Captain Hilts]

54. Taiwan's STILL using two. Folks say they're in excellent condition.

Here's a listing of websites for the various US submarines.

http://www.rontini.com/fleet.html

[Nihil]

67. Damn stupid place to surface then ...

> On the surface, when rigged for surface, the sub has a flashing yellow
> light, which is the intl. submarine signal, which basicly means "I'm a
> great big slow lumbering unmaneuverable behomoth, watch out!" and subs
> should have the right of way to surface vessels.

Maybe the sub driver should have considered the turning circle of the
tankers that motor up & down that stretch of water before playing at
"Avoid me chaps, I'm a lumbering behomoth" in international waters ...?

:shrug:

Still, as noted upthread, it's one more captain heading for dockside now.

[Ezlivin]

69. The Kamehameha - egads!

I was stationed aboard the USS Skate, the first boat to surface at the North Pole.

You're right about being on the surface: Whenever we headed out of Pearl Harbor you could spot the guys who didn't have their sea legs (not that many submariner ever developed very good sea legs) by the looks on their faces. Your experience sounds perfectly horrible. All any of us ever wanted to do was dive the damned boat. Leave the surface to the targets!

[msongs]

46. gee, a torpedo would been cheaper.... nt

[Captain Hilts]

51. This has been a bad couple of weeks for US subs. nt

[VTMechEngr]

52. Still not a lot of details yet.

[daleo]

55. The collision was in the Strait of Hormuz

That's an awfully strategic area - the strait that Iran would endeavor to close down if a war started. I wonder how big the Japanese tanker was. It might have been a large oil tanker, given the location.

[hang a left]

56. Was it really in the Straight??

No one has posted a link yet.

[daleo]

57. I am going by what someone reported upthread.

I am not sure what the source was for that claim, though. I doubt if we will get a truthful report from the media/military in any case.

On edit:
The report upthread was from The Australian, and it quotes a Pentagon spokesman as saying "Strait of Hormuz". I looked at the link and it no longer says that - misquote by the poster, or has the truth already been scrubbed clean?

[daleo]

58. Here is a link to the BBC article (says "south of Strait of Hormuz")

A US nuclear-powered submarine has collided with a Japanese tanker south of the Straits of Hormuz, Japanese and US government officials have said.
The USS Newport News did not suffer substantial damage, and there were no injuries to crew, a US Navy spokeswoman told the AFP news agency.

...

The circumstances of the collision, which happened at 1915GMT on Monday, are still unclear.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6243395.stm

[hang a left]

59. Thanks for searching out the link daleo

I am so lazy.

Boy that sure is quite aways from the Arabian Sea. They sure seem to want to play the "incident" down, don't they.

[cyberpj]

60. You mean THIS Strait of Hormuz?? As in: Iran threatens to stop oil flow via Hormuz strait:

Jan. 8, 2007 16:10
Iran threatens to stop oil flow via Hormuz strait
By JPOST.COM STAFF

A senior Iranian officer warned that if the West continues to threaten Iran's economy over its nuclear program, Teheran will discontinue the flow of oil via the Strait of Hormuz, Israel Radio reported Monday.

According to the officer, 40% of the world's oil is transferred through the strait, and the world is dependent on Iran for a source of energy and a stable economy.

Iran's spiritual leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, added that Iran cannot allow itself to give up the right to develop its nuclear technology program.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1167467686686&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Az_lefty]

61. That's the one. What a weird day it has been.

:hide:

[cyberpj]

63. And won't Iran be quite interested to know we had a sub there - spying on them. nt

[piedmont]

80. You win the Jumping to Conclusions Award for today!

Congrats!

[Zech Marquis]

65. not again

:grr: How did this happen with a US submarine and another Japanese ship?!

[Tesha]

68. Most subs are US. Many ships are Japanese. It's to be expected.

> :grr: How did this happen with a US submarine and another Japanese ship?

Most subs are US. Many ships are Japanese. It's to be expected,
just based on statistics, that if a sub hits a ship, it's us
hitting the Japanese.

Tesha

[Captain Hilts]

70. Accidents happen. nt

[jus_the_facts]

73. Nuclear sub hits Japanese ship

The US Navy is launching an investigation into how a nuclear-powered submarine hit a Japanese merchant ship near the busy shipping lanes of the Straits of Hormuz.

Damage to the fast-attack USS Newport News submarine and the tanker was light and there was no spill of oil or leakage of nuclear fuel, officials from the US Navy and the Japanese and the Emirates governments said. There were no serious injuries reported.

Both ships remained able to navigate, said a US Navy official in Japan.

The bow of the nuclear-powered Newport News hit the stern of oil tanker Mogamigawa as the vessels were passing just outside the straits last night, local time, causing minor damage to the Japanese vessel, Japan’s foreign ministry said.

MORE...

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=31295253&p=3yz9536x

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

74. Any News Reports From Hawaii?

They had better be on the lookout.

[Lasher]

75. What, again?

These nuclear boats are supposed to be pretty stealthy and yet they keep banging into Japanese commercial vessils? I say keelhaul the skipper, at least.

[Poll_Blind]

77. Check out this post from a few hours ago for more info on WHY this...

...likely happened. Here.

PB

[Lasher]

78. Hmm, makes sense.

But it doesn't excuse the crew. These vessils cost enough money to gold plate the moon and yet they make a mistake I would not make with my canoe. When one of them bangs into anoter vessil heads should roll every time.

But I don't think your point was to make excuses for the crew. Thanks for sharing the scoop.

Lasher

[hippiechick]

76. GOP donors being allowed to drive the sub again?

:shrug:

[VTMechEngr]

79. Navy: Speed of tanker sucked sub up to surface

As an engineer, this is totally plausible. As for the readers comments under the story, they are idiots. A tanker overtaking the sub would put the Sub before the prop, not after, though that is still not the Venturi Effect.

NORFOLK - The submarine Newport News was submerged and leaving the Persian Gulf when a mammoth Japanese oil tanker passed overhead at a high speed, creating a sucking effect that made the sub rise and hit the ship, the Navy said Tuesday.

That is the preliminary finding of Monday's collision between the Norfolk-based submarine and the Mogamigawa, a 1,100-foot-long merchant ship displacing 300,000 tons.

Both were southbound, crossing the busy and narrow Strait of Hormuz while heading into the Arabian Sea.

"As the ship passed over the sub, it ended up sucking the submarine into it," said Lt. Cmdr. Chris Loundermon, a spokesman for Submarine Force in Norfolk.

"It is a principle called the venturi effect," he said.

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=117352&ran=77484&tref=po