AP: Gay advocates demand apology from Pace

[rodeodance]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070313/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_gays;_ylt=AhT4CoV66BxsvsgrRIjQD42s0NUE

Gay advocates demand apology from Pace

By PAULINE JELINEK, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 22 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - A gay advocacy group Tuesday demanded an apology from the
Pentagon's top general for calling homosexuality immoral.


In a newspaper interview Monday, Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, had likened homosexuality to adultery and said the military should not condone it by allowing gays to serve openly in the armed forces.

"General Pace's comments are outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces," the advocacy group Servicemembers Legal Defense Network said in a statement on its Web site.

The group has represented some of the thousands dismissed from the military for their sexual orientation.

Pace made his remarks in an interview Monday with the Chicago Tribune. He was responding to a question about the "don't ask, don't tell" policy that allows gays and lesbians to serve if they keep their sexual orientation private and don't engage in homosexual acts.........

[CrazyOrangeCat]

1. But it's alright to blow up babies and elderly people and students.

What a guy.

[FARAFIELD]

2. WHATS the biggie?

I thought his comments right before the gay remarks were more important when he said that screwing around on your spouse is immoral also as a former military man, i saw people screwing around all the time and nothing was ever done, pace says he believes in dont ask dont tell and that means that the military has come a long way since clinton started that. I wouldnt expect the JC CHair to say anything else but for him to put adultery on the same level is a big deal since officers have generally gotten away with those sort of things.

[xchrom]

23. what's the biggie?

first of all someone elses adulterous affair is none of your busy body bidness.

learn how to live the ''perfect life'' your self before deigning to comment --

second -- what's the biggie about gay sex being immoral -- cause it sends us to fucking jail for doing the thing that everyone else gets to do with their partner as a physical representation of the affection that is NATURAL to us.

biggie? -- what a fucked up response.

[noonwitch]

39. Except he didn't say he wanted to see gays arrested and sent to jail

He said that the don't ask, don't tell policy made it possible for him to do his job because he thought homosexuality was immoral. That policy allows him to do his job because he doesn't have to ask or know that his coworkers are gay, therefore he does not have to be involved in conflicts with them due to that issue. I'm not saying I agree with him, but I can see what it is he is trying to say. He's certainly not saying he wants to see gays dragged off to jail because of their orientation. He's saying he doesn't want to deal with the issue at work.

Basically, what he's saying is, if he doesn't know someone is gay, there is no problem. You might find this offensive, but there's no promise in the Constitution that you get to live your life without ever being offended by what someone else feels or believes. And, what this guy says has little impact on your daily life, so why let it get to you to this degree? Does it change your life that some military leader in the Marines thinks homosexuality is immoral?

[xchrom]

40. bwahahaha! a funny bigot -- you don't SEE those very often.

don't ask don't tell is as bigoted as having to ride on segragated buses were in it's day.

peopole lose there jobs because they HUNT for gay folk in the armed forces this way -- or like other bigits you simply fail to follow relevant information in the news and take it straight from coulter?

if people can oppress any minority group in one sector of society then they can oppress said minority group in any other.
and as you well know they do.

hey if stupid fucks are going to spout stupid fuck wit -- then they are going to have to listen to me set the fuck wit straight so to speak.

[truth2power]

3. Seeing as how

there are gays in the military, I guess this is what the good General calls erm....supporting the troops! Hypocrite!!

edit> typo

[Eugene]

4. (AP) Aides: Pace Won't Apologize for Gay Remark

Aides: Pace Won't Apologize for Gay Remark

By PAULINE JELINEK, Associated Press Writer

Tuesday, March 13, 2007

(03-13) 07:49 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

Senior aides to the chairman of the military Joint Chiefs of Staff said
Tuesday that Marine Gen. Peter Pace won't apologize for calling
homosexuality immoral — an opinion that gay advocacy groups deplored.

In a newspaper interview Monday, Pace had likened homosexual acts to
adultery and said the military should not condone it by allowing gays
to serve openly in the armed forces.

-snip-

Pace's senior staff members said Tuesday that the general was expressing
his personal opinion and had no intention of apologizing. They spoke on
condition of anonymity because they were not allowed to speak on the
record.

-snip-

Full article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/13/national/w074923D40.DTL

[maddezmom]

7. not good enough

And I hope more groups call for an apology or resignation.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

5. I'm wondering

if the cause these soldiers died for was "Noble?"

[rodeodance]

13. Cindy S. has been asking ---what is the noble cause????

[cboy4]

6. What a horrible person.

Why do people like Peter Pace feel they have the right to speak this way about other human beings?


Take a look at all of the countries that allow gay people to openly serve in the military:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_mil...

What the hell is wrong with the United States? You would think we would be the example.


* Argentina<1>
* Australia
* Austria
* The Bahamas
* Belgium
* Bulgaria<2>
* Canada
* Colombia
* Croatia<2>
* Czech Republic
* Denmark
* Estonia <3>
* Finland
* France
* Germany
* Hungary
* Ireland
* Israel
* Italy<2>
* Lithuania
* Luxembourg
* The Netherlands
* New Zealand
* Norway
* Peru
* Poland
* Portugal<2>
* Romania<4>
* Slovenia
* South Africa
* Spain
* Sweden
* Switzerland
* Taiwan
* Thailand
* United Kingdom

[qwlauren35]

8. You are kidding, right?

The US should be a world leader in tolerance????

The United States???

THIS country???

I admit to surprise that Ireland and Germany are on the list, but frankly, I think you have forgotten that we don't tend to practice what we preach, or agree to the things we bomb others for...

We are the country that won't support any charitable organization abroad that so much as MENTIONS abortion as a realistic option for pregnant women...

Here in "America", "land of the free" has never applied to everyone.

(Don't mind me, I'm just feeling grumpy.)

[Toucano]

9. You're right.

On what human rights issue or concern has the United States EVER led the world?

That's right. NONE!

[cboy4]

10. Try being gay and having to listen

to some nitwit at the Pentagon say I shouldn't be allowed to serve my country if I want because I live an "immoral" life!!

And you're fricken feeling grumpy?!!!

[leveymg]

32. Tell us, Why would AIPAC want to get rid of Pace?

It really has nothing to do with "Don't ask, don't tell", it has to do with Pace's resistance to plans to attack Iran.

Why did TIME publish this story now?

Comes at exactly the same time AIPAC has managed to pressure Democratic Congressmen to excise the measure expressly forbidding Bush from attacking Iran without Congressional approval. I see this as an effort to try to isolate Pace from his base of support among progressive Democrats, and that has everything to do with his role in resisting White House efforts to escalate tensions against Iran.

I disapprove of expressions of bigotry, but I also see the bigger picture about what's going on here.

[Naipes]

11. The New Right Wing Distraction Tactic...

First we have Ann Coulter with the opening salvo, calling John Edwards a "faggot." Now we have this crap. Can't anyone see? It's all part of a plan to distract the public. Right wing modus operandi, divide and conquer.

[Toucano]

12. I don't see the point of an apology if he expressed what he believes.

What are they asking for?

One of those, "I'm sorry if anyone was offended (but I did nothing wrong)," bullshit things that passes for an apology these days?

Unless he's going to say, "I'm sorry I'm such an ignorant ass, I was wrong and I no longer believe what I said," he can stuff his sorry in a sack!

It's meaningless and useless to expect him to apologize for SAYING what he believes and not for believing it in the first place.

[maddezmom]

14. I want him to resign

But I'd like to see this whole administration resign. I guess it would just be nice to see him have to eat his words and offer an apology even if it isn't sincere.

[Qutzupalotl]

18. I agree. We can't fault him for an opinion.

It's the old disagree-with-what-you-say-but-defend-your-right-to-say-it.

We here are all fighting for the right to express our opinions freely. If some are abhorrent, we should simply be pointing that out.

Now if his opinion were POLICY, that would be different. We can and should complain about backwards policies. But I don't think he was speaking for the entire military in this instance. His opinion is a separate issue from military policy.

[insleeforprez]

36. uhh...

Now if his opinion were POLICY, that would be different

Oh wait, IT IS POLICY.

[Qutzupalotl]

41. They are not identical.

For one thing, his opinion can be (and is) backwards, intolerant and bigoted.

The policy is supposed to conform to law. See the difference?

[jilln]

34. Wrong!

He was in his official capacity and therefore he should be FORCED to apologize. Sure, it won't change his messed-up thinking but at least he will think twice before spewing bile in public again. Part of what makes discrimination acceptable is hearing it over and over until it becomes normal - it's propaganda. So the fewer "respectable" talking heads we have spewing crap, the better.

[brooklynite]

15. Update: Gen. Pace responds...

A Statement From Gen. Peter Pace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

“Yesterday, during a wide ranging interview with the Chicago Tribune Editorial Board, I was asked if I think the current policy as codified in U.S. Code, generally referred to as “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell,” should still hold.

“People have a wide range of opinions on this sensitive subject. The important thing to remember is that we have a policy in effect, and the Department of Defense has a statutory responsibility to implement that policy.

“I made two points in support of the policy during the interview. One, “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” allows individuals to serve this nation; and two, it does not make a judgment about the morality of individual acts.

“In expressing my support for the current policy, I also offered some personal opinions about moral conduct.

“I should have focused more on my support of the policy and less on my personal moral views.

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=10601

Well, I guess that makes it all better...

[ProudDad]

28. No Shit, Dip Stick

“I should have focused more on my support of the policy and less on my personal moral views."

What a shit....

[bdamomma]

35. pace another foot soldier for bushie.

he should of have never displayed his own personal moral views, that was his "mistake".

[lakercub]

16. human excrement

I have no idea what his military history is, all his medals, honors, etc. He may have the most sparkling record of anyone alive. He may have been a hero on the battlefield ten times over, but I'll never know. When he decides he wants to publicly hate those who are not like him, and who are serving honorably, I just don't feel like looking up how wonderful he is. As far as I'm concerned he made my life easier. I can just throw him in my figurative human refuse bin and be done with him.

Another terrible human being in a position of power...what were the odds?

[closeupready]

17. I wonder if his stance on homosexuality applies to lesbianism, as well?

Because a lot of people would disagree.

[deepthought42]

19. Boys and girls, today's word is...

Discrimination.


Fucking A. :grr:

[LaBanty]

20. 65,000 Gay & Lesbian Forces?

If there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, just how do they establish there are 65,000 gay and lesbian troops currently serving in the military? Are they pulling numbers out of a hat, basing it on a national percentage of straight vs. homosexual/bisexual, or what?

There obviously are many gay people serving in the military, but I have to question an organization providing figures like this as fact when the military itself, by its own policy, probably would not have that information. It seems almost Bush-like to manufacture your own numbers and present them to the public to make your case.

[iamahaingttta]

21. And... We have a winner!

Congratulations for picking up on that. Pretty funny, huh?

[Skittles]

27. I know I served with many gay folk

and they served honorably - yes INDEED

[insleeforprez]

37. It's an estimate

that came from a UCLA study.

[EFerrari]

22. And we should do the same. n/t

[Omaha Steve]

24. You can you this post in Activist HQ to send your comments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=106x30439

[xchrom]

25. to those of you who say why should he apologise -- would you say he was a fit military leader

if he had used the words niger, kike, spik in some context and refuse to apologise for that?

that's what he has done us.

now i don't know if he WILL apologise -- but it gives this little gay a good idea of where i'm really at in this country -- and kudos to you guys who think he shouldn't apologise as it continues to confirm my notions of bigotry around here.

[ProudDad]

30. He should be removed

His "slip" was inexcusable under the military's own (BS) rules.

He has "undermined the morale of troops" in the field. He should be forced to resign and be replaced by some general who can keep his tongue under control.

He's a bigot...

[JerseygirlCT]

26. Perhaps Pace needs to practice a bit more "don't tell"

himself.

Like if you're not ready to deal with your homophobic nastiness, learn to keep your trap shut.

I think instead of focusing soley on an apology from him, we ought to be insisting on service-wide programs fighting this sort of bigotry. Obviously, there's a whole lot of education needed here.

[emlev]

29. I thought he was endorsing gay group sex!

His comments specifically derided sex between two individuals of the same sex, I believe.

[kdpeters]

31. With all due respect General Pace, you are out of line.

Your job is leading and advising on matters of military, and even then, you are the servant. We the People have sovereign authority. We will tell you who may or may not serve this country. You are out of line and you need to retract all your comments.

[MessiahRp]

33. So THAT'S why Republicans rarely serve in the military

Adulterers aren't allowed! Gotcha.

Rp

[David Zephyr]

38. I'd love to see thousands of gay & lesbian vets stage a sit-in at the Pentagon.

Wouldn't that put a laser focus on the hypocrisy once and for all?

[ends_dont_justify]

42. Being Peter Pace is immoral

I wonder how he'd respond to that? ;) immature as it is it'd probably make the wingnut's head explode from trying to function it

[19jet54]

43. 300...

I would remind Gen. Pace of the 300 Spartans and the Battle of Thermopylae, it's importance to Greek history as a sacrifice that led to ultimate victory and protecting democracy. Spartans were warriors, homosexuals, and the best hope for Greece. There is nothing wrong with personal opinion, but when it interferes with reality and discriminates unfairly at the same time, you need to get a reality grip!

Unless you just want to force everybody to a single religious belief system? That's ok for a church, but not a government.

[NMMNG]

44. I highly doubt they're going to get it

Pace thinks he's right because his Bible says so. Funny how he ignores the parts that are inconvenient for him like Don't kill, Don't lie, Honor the Sabbath (and don't work on it), Do unto others and countless others. Instead he chooses to enforce select rules on others, causing them pain and even harm. This is highly typical of his ilk.