Latino gang accused of targeting blacks in Los Angeles

[Scurrilous]

Source: Associated Press

<snip>

"In a murderous quest aimed at "cleansing" their turf of snitches and rival gangsters, members of one of Los Angeles County's most vicious Latino gangs sometimes killed people just because of their race, an investigation found.

There were even instances in which Florencia 13 leaders ordered killings of black gangsters and then, when the intended victim couldn't be located, said "Well, shoot any black you see," Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca said.

"In certain cases some murders were just purely motivated on killing a black person," Baca said.

Authorities say there were 20 murders among more than 80 shootings documented during the gang's rampage in the hardscrabble Florence-Firestone neighborhood, exceptional even in an area where gang violence has been commonplace for decades. They do not specify the time frame or how many of the killings were racial.

Los Angeles has struggled with gang violence for years, especially during the wars in the late 1980s and early '90s between the Crips and the Bloods — both black gangs. Latino gangs have gained influence since then as the Hispanic population surged."

Read more: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/30/america/NA-GEN-US-Gang-Takedown.php

---

LATimes: The Homicide Report

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/homicidereport/

[Deja Q]

1. But that's racial profiling! Have the Latinos filed suit against the government yet?

Or the Blacks?

Or some errant Whites?

Can't everybody just grow up and treat everyone as equals?

[gorbal]

104. You comment throws all Latino's in the same category as these jerks

One wouldn't want to be put in the same category as the KKK just because one may be white.

[EFerrari]

2. Thank god we get such balanced reporting.

And, the fastest growing gangs in L.A. are Asian -- but that won't fit this election cycle.

[JustAnotherGen]

4. sfex

That's what I thought . . .And, the fastest growing gangs in L.A. are Asian<\i>

Hell! This is minority on minority crime - I'm surprised the media even reported it.


Ah - eh? Forgive my blatant cynicism.

[EFerrari]

6. As King Lear said, they use us for their sport.

I've never been in a gang, lol, but it's so obvious that the corporate media is trying to rile up the black community against Latinos, and indeed, the culture in general against Latinos.

There may well be a serious criminal element there. But, what we read is so manipulated, we don't get any sense of proportion, let alone, any plan to make the situation better.

What is needed for this next election is the demonization of Latinos, on the whole the most gentle people on this planet. :shrug:

edit: the phrase from Lear is, "they kill us for their sport". And, that's about the truth in this situation.

[NorthernSpy]

24. I've explained this to you before...

I've never been in a gang, lol, but it's so obvious that the corporate media is trying to rile up the black community against Latinos, and indeed, the culture in general against Latinos.

Well, they're probably wasting their time. Taken as a whole, the black community does not "rile up" that easily, except under circumstances usually involving disparate treatment by officialdom.


Unlike the white community, which went on a near-rampage against Latinos in Hamilton, OH.

http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2005/07/17/sections/nation_world/nation_world/article_600304.php

[EFerrari]

27. My statement wasn't about the black community but about this propaganda.

This is the second time this story has been "reported" that I know of. And when I say "us", I mean ALL of us.

And, get this: this morning there were reps from three campaigns on Washington Journal. Brian Lamb had an immigrant, now US citizen, from Peru to represent the Obama campaign AND they tied this kid's appearance to immigration. It was a two-fer for the nutcases.

[NorthernSpy]

29. I'm just trying to ease your mind on this...

That's all.


Although I do think that as the economic situation here deteriorates, things could get worse for minorities in other ways. There may be a search for scapegoats. I don't know how far it could go.


Ever since Katrina, there's been a change. I can't really put my finger on it, but something seems different.

[EFerrari]

30. Katrina exposed how far we have fallen from the advances

of the sixties. And, how helpless we are in a way, to redress our grievances. You bet something changed. I feel the very same way.

As the economy gets worse, the hatred the Republics use to distract their idiot base is going to get more and more overt. We better buckle up and plan to hang together.

The scapegoating of Latinos is ridiculous already. We started the SoCal fire, we were looters, we're invading, we're targeting black gangs, we're lepers. That's why this morning when they had that young man on, an alarm went off for me. Lamb was taking a poke at Obama in a quiet, underhanded way and just a few days ahead of the caucus. That's how bad it is. That's all Lamb had to do: put on a Latino Obama supporter and make him take about immigration.

[fascisthunter]

33. sfexpat2000, I'm with You

this is pure political BS used to divide. Expect much more of it.

[EFerrari]

35. I do and, thanks.

If we know what to expect, we can respond more thoughtfully. :hi:

[silverojo]

97. You don't have a clue!

1) The Latinos have ALREADY risen up against the blacks, not the other way around, as you're trying to spin it. In fact, Latino-on-black violence has gotten so bad, that blacks are moving out of areas that were predominantly African-American. That includes Watts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts%2C_Los_Angeles%2C_California#Demographics

2) Latinos, "the most gentle people on the planet"? OMG, give me a break. Check the crime statistics, and see how the "gentle" Latinos are right up there with every other race, in terms of violent crime. Claiming one race is more gentle than others is...well...racist.

3) Latino hate groups are reaching out to young Latin@s, teaching them to hate whites, blacks, and Jews. And no, these aren't fringe organizations; they're organizations that were behind the huge marches we've seen in recent years. (Like MexicaMovement.org, whose banners were all over the place in these marches.)


I think what baffles me here, is how people can claim to be for racial equality...yet Hispanics are always given special treatment. First, it's A-OK for them to come here illegally and you expect them to be given amnesty (when people of other races who are caught here illegally get deported). Now, it's A-OK for them to behave just like the KKK, and perpetrate hate crimes on blacks.

When the hell are we going to treat Hispanics EQUALLY the same as other races, and expect them to obey the same laws that apply to people of other races.

[EFerrari]

108. Dumbfounding. First, I'm not spinning anything.

I'm pointing out that this nonstory is propaganda.

Second, your sources are as laughable as your hateful claims.

[psychopomp]

120. I wonder whether you really believe there is no effort by latino gangs to push the black gangs back

There has been growth in latino gangs in the US in the last fifteen years, especially in Los Angeles. There is bound to be friction as they jockey for position and as the demographic shift from black to brown in many communities continues.

If you do not believe latino gangs are also viciously violent I would have to wonder whether you have any experience with LA at all. Seriously, how could you not know about the black-latino gang violence that has flared up in recent years in LA?

[NorthernSpy]

112. the primary reasons why blacks are moving out: better homes and schools...

... in neighboring counties.

The Riverside-San Bernardino area is the fastest-growing black community in the United states.


The gang problem is a real (and multi-racial) problem that needs to be solved. And please note that I share your stance on illegal immigration. But to be fair, I don't think blacks are leaving LA primarily because of Latino gangs. I think the more likely reasons are probably things like wanting more job opportunities, better schools, and bigger houses and yards.

[Megahurtz]

40. Ever hear of any Racist Asians?

I don't. :)

[loves_dulcinea]

43. when i lived in japan,

saw plenty of asian against gaijin racism. it's institutionalized and pretty prevalent. it doesn't get violent unless you mix with the gangster types.

[LeftyMom]

49. Good god yes.

The school I attended was majority southeast asian. Let me assure you, there was a hell of a lot of racism involved- the Vietnamese kids (who were the majority) looked down on the other SEAsian groups, the Chinese and Japanese kids looked down on well, everybody really (and mostly socialized with white kids rather than Asian kids, they're much more established in the area and didn't identify with newer waves of immigrants as much as with other native-born kids.) Everybody looked down on the Hmong, who tend to looked down on as being backward, uneducated and poor.

The South Asian (Indian, Pakistani) kids got along pretty well over national and religious lines, probably because there weren't as many of them, so smaller cliques wouldn't really be viable social entities.

If you assumed that somebody was some ethnicity they weren't it would probably start a fight. I don't get all bent when somebody thinks I'm German or Russian or whatever, but I don't think that I'm better and calling me some other ethnicity is an insult, and most of the southeast asian kids I went to school with would.

[silverojo]

99. Don't forget the Japanese/Korean racial tensions

Because of WWII, there's still a lot of resentment between the two countries to this day. I can't find the link offhand, but on YouTube I recently saw a very public display of Korean high schoolers' artwork...with a theme of hating Japan. Everything from bombing the island to bloody depictions of killing Japanese people. This was on display in a subway, with the school's approval. It absolutely sickened me.

[hack89]

77. Oh yes

lived in Japan - they take racial superiority very seriously.

[silverojo]

98. As one who's been around many, many Asians

Asian racism is definitely out there, in the U.S. and Canada. I'm fond of Asians, myself, but I often have to grit my teeth when dealing with some of them. They're often very racist about their kids dating people of other races, and that's just one example.

Racism exists in every race. Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't invented by white people. :eyes:

[Recursion]

3. Calling the crips and bloods "black" is simplistic

They were location-based in predominantly black neighborhoods, but there were asian, hispanic, and white soldiers and tray chiefs. Mara Salvatrucha, otoh, does have racial "tests" like cosa nostra did; you have to be Central American to be more than an affiliate.

[ButterflyBlood]

11. True. There was recently a Minnesota murder linked to white crips

n/t

[psychopomp]

121. You don't know anything about the Crips and Bloods if you don't think they are black gangs

I found this to be a very good documentary on the birth of African American gangs in LA, as told by a former banger:

Documentary on Bloods & Crips from HBO
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9196997865462255171&hl=en

[pingzing58]

5. When any person is disenfranchised from the benefits of society they form gangs and their own social

rules. But isn't it true that as intelligent as our elected officials are we still don't understand tribal culture in the Middle East and Africa or gang culture with all their similarities in our own cities? Idiots!!!

[msedano]

7. "M" is the 13th letter...

but not because, as the unsigned AP article claims, that represents the "Mexican Mafia", aka "Murderous Malevolent Misanthropic Misguided Mistaken McNasty Mexican Mafia" but because "M" is the first letter of "Marijuana", an herb that grows wild even in poor soil, and whose uses antedate the "MMMMMMMM" by several thousands of years.

Don't let that etymology get in the way of making an opinion seem like truth. The AP and LATimes once again stretch the tiniest sliver of information to make a point that misinforms their readers.

by the way, the origination of the use of "M" and "13" by chicanos goes back to world war II--not that PBS and Ken Burns would give a hoot--to designate the chicano belief "My country right or wrong My country." It's why we served with distinction in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.

[Swagman]

8. divide and conquer

[Didereaux]

9. I say arm them equally, fence them in, and come back in a month!

There is not ONE thing about any of these little bastards that in anyway is not a threat to peaceful society. Fuck you kneejerking touchy-feelies and your excuse making. We KNOW what makes them and that needs fixed, but like training pitbulls to kill once the deed is done that dog is ruined. These gangs are ruined former humans!

[wellst0nev0ter]

10. I'm Sure The Gangmembers Think Exactly The Same Way

they don't really give a fuck about human lives either.

[ohio2007]

12. The UN has issues with that wall. They want the wall torn down....oh the Gaza strip and Sunset strip

on different coasts?
;)

[southtpa]

13. omission

Tell each side the other side tastes just like chicken.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

14. I don't see how anyone can have an ounce of sympathy for gangs

They're parastic vermin and there's no place for them in a democratic, progressive, civilized society. If the authorities can prove someone's membership in a criminal gang, then I say give them a chance to recant or lock them up, as signing on to gang membership is to sign on to a criminal conspiracy involved in murder, theft, drug dealing, hatred of their fellow man who is not a gang member, and general mayhem. And they are involved in coercion of their own neighbors, forcing them to join this criminal conspiracy from an early age or else.

[BreweryYardRat]

23. Yep, gotta agree with you.

Gangs are a scourge on society.

[gorbal]

105. Do you know anyone in a gang?

Just curious. You might know someone who is and not even realize it.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

115. Yes, I've known gang members

I had a friend whose brother was murdered in broad daylight in a busy restaurant by a rival asian gang. I had another friend who was shot in a drive-by shooting right in front of my eyes as he exited a club (fortunately, he didn't die). I know that I have been down and out many times. I've had trouble finding jobs. I've had times when I was dirt poor. But I never, ever would respond to such a circumstance by arming myself to the teeth and joining a gang of murderers. I would never respond to my surroundings by engaging in home invasions, car jacking, drive-by shootings, getting little kids to sell drugs to other little kids on the street, or prostituting the young girls in my neighborhood. To me, gang members are giant lazy assholes. Sure, they may have grown up in a racist environment and face a lot of disadvantages. But there are plenty of people in that situation who obey the law and do not take it out on their fellow men or women and become a cancer within civilized society. Instead of tearing down their neighborhood, they should be cleaning up the trash, removing the gangland graffiti, helping their neighbors paint their houses, and making the neighborhood safe where people actually want to open up businesses. Instead of helping their environment, gang members just make the situation worse. And worst of all, they prey upon their own neighbors.

[AlphaCentauri]

16. I would say educate them, accept them, integrate them in the society before....

they become gang members, rejecting blacks and latinos into poor neighbor hoods is not the solution.

[AlphaCentauri]

17. sorry, it sounded so socialist

Wonder why Cuba has no gangs?

[hack89]

21. How sure are you of that?

Just wondering - organized crime seems to be a universal human condition.

[AlphaCentauri]

31. Gangs are only one type of organized crime

in this case there is no proof that there are gangs like creeps and bloods in Cuba, even there were none in central America until the end of their civil war and the deportation of gang member from the states.

[Marrah_G]

22. That is the basis of the problem

The big question is how to turn the next generation around when it is so heavily influenced by the current crop of gangsters. The kids learn early from these guys that money and power are to be gained by any means possible and that money and power are the only things in life that matter.

They need decent housing, education, and neighborhoods free from these predators.

[AlphaCentauri]

32. May be relocating or destroying their psychological habitats

like changing the configuration of their neighbor hoods breaking the cycle by changing the manner the society works around them.

[fascisthunter]

34. How Disgusting

"We KNOW what makes them and that needs fixed"

Talk aboout inhuman

[Chovexani]

45. YT knows what's good for them little brown savages

I learned it on DU.

[EFerrari]

47. I find the ignore feature to be very useful. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. Yeah, gangs are almost as bad as teachers.

:eyes:

[humbled_opinion]

15. and this is something new? n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

18. It is only news if it isn't being done by White men in America.

http://www.americanlynching.com/infamous-old.html

Following the Civil War and the founding of the Ku Klux Klan in Tennessee, the lynching of African-American and other "colored" people known as Negroes grew to epidemic proportions. During the late 1860s and early 1870s, so-called "nigger hunts" in the Deep South probably claimed thousands of lives -- although most are unknown, unrecorded deaths. The practice of lynching also targeted Dixie's white men and women for interfering with "Judge Lynch justice" against the Negroes, and for aiding the escape of runaway or other slaves (i.e. abolitionists). Underlying the dynamics of eleven Italians becoming lynched scapegoats in 1891 New Orleans, following the murder of a popular policeman, were economic considerations grounded in race and ethnicity. Sometimes economic motives to lynch were more obvious -- as with the lynching of union activists. Lynching in the Wild West experienced its most brazen period primarily depicted as the extralegal killings of suspected desperados while also featuring waves of indiscriminate terror waged against Hispanic peoples (chiefly Mexicans), Chinese immigrants, and Native Americans. The lynching of Mexican civilians by duly commissioned Texas Rangers and self-appointed vigilante groups claimed the second largest group of American ethnic-racial victims with a documented 605 individual cases occurring between 1848 and 1928. Other victims of the pervasive practice included Australian immigrants to America's Far Western states, people with disfigured faces and queer folk -- perhaps those effeminate or single men suspected of sexual indiscretions committed against women or children if not also known homosexuals.

After 1880, the lynching of African-American men, women, and children began to acquire its most sinister and ritualistic form. Negroes become primary targets of white bigots defending the bankrupt premise of white supremacy in its various guises. Unlawful executions occasionally became mass entertainment "spectacle" events bolstered by a burgeoning consumerism.

[Recursion]

20. The vast majority of lynching victims were white

I think the purely racial narrative misses the fact that lynching was primarily white-on-white violence.

[NorthernSpy]

26. that's like arguing that the vast majority of people killed in WWII weren't Jewish...

I think you're the one missing the point.


Was lynching employed as a political tactic to terrorize whites in general as whites in an organized campaign of ethnic oppression and ethnic cleansing?


No.

[Recursion]

28. Not as whites, as poor whites

It was a political tactic to terrorize poor whites as poor whites in an organized campaign of economic oppression.

[and-justice-for-all]

19. Latino and Black gangs are always freuding...

They do target each other.

[NorthernSpy]

25. black and hispanic gangs are "freuding"?

Listen, dawg -- sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

No, there's still subconscious desire involved, hombre!

[Megahurtz]

41. If you live ANYWHERE near L.A.

you will know that what and-justice-for-all says is true.

[NorthernSpy]

44. it's just that the poster wrote "freuding" when he meant to say "feuding"...

And I thought that was kind of cute, and...


Oh, well.


:banghead:

[and-justice-for-all]

46. Um, yeah, type-o...my bad...nt

[MnFats]

36. AS USUAL, SNOPES.Com has some interesting information

about this very subject.....check it out:

http://www.snopes.com/crime/gangs/memphis.asp#update

[NorthernSpy]

37. the Florencia gang's mini ethnic cleansing spree is real enough, but...

... clearly someone has been working overtime to create bogus variations on the theme for use as propaganda.


My guess is that this "Memphis Gang Initiation" stuff originated with the same people who write other right-wing chain emails.

[NashVegas]

38. Rumour Or Not ...

The Feds just got some indictments against MS 13 members here in Nashville.

The Feds will never eradicate gangs for the same reason they would never eradicate the Mafia. They know everything that's happening on the streets and can bargain with information. As long as the only people being terrorized are other gang members and poor people in the 'hood, they don't care.

[MnFats]

42. NOT discounting gang danger...MS 13 has made its presence known here too...

...cops i know say they'd prefer almost any other gang turn up in Mn.

...they are exceptionally violent.

[EFerrari]

48. Oh, for christsake. n/t

[silverojo]

100. You're really scraping to defend your own kind, aren't you?

Now you're trying to tell us that MS 13 aren't violent? Or that the cops don't dread them the most?

Sorry, facts are facts, whether you care to face them or not. I'm white, but I find the KKK revolting and obscene. Too bad you can't view your own fellow Hispanics (the criminal ones, that is) as objectively.

[EFerrari]

106. I don't live my life hysterically based on the fears of others.

:)

[Sultana]

50. MS-13

are scary gang, I remember seeing a documentary of them :scared:

[Popol Vuh]

39. Divide And Conquer

This is a prime example of the (main-stream News) being used as a tool to keep the under economic class (the minorities) focusing on each other rather than who they should be focusing their attention on; the big money and power brokers.

Its just another example of "Hey! look over here!..Don't pay attention to me."

[AlphaCentauri]

58. see how they are screaming

intead of saying "they are coming out of poor neighborhoods" they say "they been displaced from black neigthborhoods"....

[Wcross]

62. From the original post.

"In a murderous quest aimed at "cleansing" their turf of snitches and rival gangsters, members of one of Los Angeles County's most vicious Latino gangs sometimes killed people just because of their race, an investigation found."

Instead of saying "Being terrorized because of the color of their skin" you claim they are "coming out of poor neighborhoods". You have no idea where they are moving to. You have no idea if they are moving to a better area or on to a different poor neighborhood.

Its funny to see you cheerleading & making apologies for criminal activities just because the criminals happen to be Latino. I guess anything for "La Raza", right scooter?

[AlphaCentauri]

68. I'm not making making apologies for criminals

and I don't have to.

If racist want to confine blacks and latinos to poor neighborhoods, I just do not agree. See my other post.

[Wcross]

71. Identify which racists are confining Latinos & Blacks to poor neighborhoods.

Are they the same ones confining poor whites to Appalachia? Are they the same racists confining poor whites to trailer parks? You have made the charge that racists are confining people to poor neighborhoods & I want you to expand on that.

[AlphaCentauri]

73. Racist values and prejudice

Why we don't call Appalachia or the trailer parks "White Neighborhoods" in the same way as we do with the so called black neighborhoods?

Just because the racist see the poor as a defect not as their equal.

[Wcross]

76. Uh, because Appalachia is a region. Trailer parks already have a name.

Poverty keeps people in undesirable circumstances. The problem is, if we add to our workforce with illegal immigration, wages are depressed for the entire workforce. More workers available = lower wages & less benefits. The result is poverty.
In conclusion, I believe we are doing a disservice to our own working poor by allowing illegal immigration to continue. Maybe you benefit from lower wages. Maybe you have family that wants to come here. I don't know what your motives are for being such a cheerleader for illegal immigration. One thing is for sure, you don't care about American citizens that have to compete in the economy.

[AlphaCentauri]

78. LOL, so poverty has to be a random game of competition

that's why the poverty percentages are so despair between the majority and minorities.

[Wcross]

80. I don't know how you could laugh out loud at people living in poverty.

You really don't see the correlation of adding mostly unskilled labor to our own unskilled labor force? Would that not depress the wages for all? Would that not allow employers to be less generous with benefits? How do you explain the working poor who happen to be part of the majority race? Do you really think there are NO WHITE PEOPLE living in poverty? It ALWAYS goes back to race with you, poverty is poverty no matter what race you are. How can you claim that illegal immigration does not depress wages & benefits? The fact that the majority of illegal aliens are Latinos does not change the fact that illegal immigration harms citizens of EVERY race who are forced to compete with the increased labor pool.

[AlphaCentauri]

95. The problem that I see is that minorities are taking a big percentage of the unskilled labor

but I do not see a proposal on your side to end that stigma. it looks like blaming somebody else is going to end that problem.

[Wcross]

103. A job isn't a "stigma".

You say I blame someone else? No I am stating a econ 101 basic fact. Increased supply reduces the price of any commodity. How does one progress beyond unskilled labor? Education & experience. It is hard to get experience when the available labor pool pushes wages below a point where you can afford to work at that job.

Thank you for admitting you are on a "side" in this issue. You are on the side of illegal immigrants. I prefer to stand up for Americas working poor.

[Popol Vuh]

116. Before we can take your point

We must FIRST remove the trade policies forcing people into the desperate choice of having to migrate away from their families and homes to just put food on the table for their families. We must ALSO first aid in the recovery from the economic damage our trade policies caused.

If we were to do that, then, IMO, you would have a leg to stand on with your point. But until then this is a problem we created with our greedy corporations and we have a moral obligation to recognize these migrants as NOT illegals.

My god calling a human being "Illegal" is just outright deplorable. Sometimes I wish the true Americans took that point of view and kicked out (deported) any and all "illegal immigration" here to this continent from Europe. Oh but that doesn't sound right to you does it? That "illegal immigration" wasn't illegal in your opinion was it? Are you the "I got mines, so screw you" type person? Because that's how you are coming across. Sorry but that's not meant to be an insult, but, just an observation.


((Video)) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=211108422793632049

((Video)) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4513202692382805096

[Wcross]

118. Wonderful.

Greedy corporations enjoy cheap labor costs while they "repay" their debt to the world? That is a craptacular plan! The working poor get to share LESS of the pie? NAFTA draining hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs from our economy isn't hurting OUR citizens? You don't have a leg to stand on.

Oh, that immigration law we have not only makes people who break the law criminals, it makes their status here "illegal". If you don't like the law, by all means lobby your representatives to have it changed. Until the law is repealed, I would like it enforced. I would at least like the courtesy of knowing how many people are here illegally. Maybe even some way to screen out undesirables such as child molesters & the like? Is that too much to ask?

Tell me how your "plan" will benefit the average American. Tell me how it will absolutely NOT reduce wages or benefits for Americas working poor.

[Popol Vuh]

72. The choice of words

sure do a lot to show the mindset of the authors and editors doesn't it? Remember back after hurricane Katrina and there were two separate cases of people getting food to eat out of stores and in the case when it was a black person the news papers used the word "looting" and in the case when it was a white person the news papers used the word looking for food?

The news does this all the time and they're quite good at it in my opinion.


Thanks AlphaCentauri..

[Sultana]

51. Anyone in a gang

is an idiot. The whole it's like a "family" is BS.

What waste of life.

Is it a race or a gang war? It appears to be both. :shrug:

[Wcross]

52. I am not black, why should I care?

Thought that might get your attention.

I am so sick of the illegal immigration apologists & cheerleaders here. Do you deny the existence of these gangs? Do you deny they are pushing blacks out of the neighborhoods on "their" turf?

I will never advocate open borders. We need to know who is entering our country. I would like to exclude people with criminal backgrounds from living here. Is that too much to ask?

[AlphaCentauri]

53. Smile, you're on Candid Camera

Assuming that these gangs are entering as illegal aliens is a jock, this type of gang did not exist in latin america before 1980, these gangs are made in America for the reasons we all know, exclusion and poverty.
Latinos are not pushing blacks out of their segregated poor neighborhoods, latinos are helping blacks to brake the racist wish to keep them confined to a poor neighborhood for blacks only, building neighborhoods based on race is racist.

[Sultana]

54. Helping them by killing them?

:wtf:

[AlphaCentauri]

55. Did you read Wcross post?

:wow:

[Wcross]

56. As I said, I am tired of the apologists & cheerleaders.

"latinos are helping blacks to brake the racist wish to keep them confined to a poor neighborhood for blacks only, building neighborhoods based on race is racist."

Uh, no. They don't want to share the neighborhood with black people. They are "helping them" by killing them? That is a unique way to help. They are building the neighborhood based on their race and cleansing it of other races. Thank you for admitting that they are racist.
Last time I checked, nobody is "assigned" an area to live. Nobody but the residents who choose to live there "build" a neighborhood. Pushing people OUT based on race is what?

At any rate, anyone who belongs to a criminal enterprise and is not in our country legally should be deported immediately. No questions asked. We have enough crime in our country, we don't need more criminals.

[AlphaCentauri]

57. Linking immigrants to gangs?

racist get scare when they see blacks moving from impoverish neighborhoods into middle class white neighborhoods, that is why there is an emphasis on that crocked statement that latinos are displacing blacks.
I understand that people do not want to live in poor neighborhoods so instead of arguing that blacks are moving out of blacks neighborhoods "because of latinos" I would welcome them in my neighborhood if they are looking for a better place to live.

Racist are trying to use blacks against latinos using these gang problems, a lot of crimes against latino immigrants are not reported because immigrants don't see the police as a protecting agency but a government agency that is after them.

You are right that gang member that are not citizens should be deported, the problem is that the vast majority of gang members are citizens who's parents were economically excluded from education into poor neighborhoods.

[Wcross]

60. So there is no link between MS-13 & illegal immigrants?

Latinos can't be racist? Is that what you are implying? Are you saying this is all being orchestrated by "unknown racists" in order to turn blacks against Latinos? You are saying the story is a plant by white middle class racists who are scared that blacks will be moving into their neighborhoods? You say Latinos are "displacing" blacks? Does "displacing" mean killing & intimidating as the story suggests?

I find this statement a true indicator of your own racism- "I would welcome them in my neighborhood if they are looking for a better place to live."

1) You imply they require your "welcome" to even live in your neighborhood.
2) You assume that because they are black, your neighborhood would be "a better place to live".

You are an apologist. You claim that "the vast majority" of gang members are citizens. The term "vast majority" means nothing other than that the user of the term has NO CLUE of the true numbers. If that is not true please provide a link to prove your statement. It seems to me we can assume 72% of the MS-13 members are illegal aliens if this bust is representitive of the MS-13 makeup.

http://www.isaintel.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=107&Itemid=1

Due to its violent nature, the MS-13 is a top law enforcement target for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), which has worked closely with the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to organize and implement nationwide sting operations.
~snip~


Some members were charged with assault, kidnapping and human trafficking. The vast majority, however, were charged with immigration violations. Of the 1,300 arrested, 939 will be deported back to their home countries, such as Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala or Honduras.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If this bust is representative of the makeup of MS-13 then only 72% of the members of MS-13 are illegal aliens. If you have other statistics, by all means share them.

[AlphaCentauri]

64. ooops! now call me racist

I have the privilege to have a multi ethnic family, blacks, latinos and white europeans are part of it, no need to explain more about it.

[Wcross]

69. Yet you make racist statements like that?

Sorry but that came off as racist sounding to me. "I would welcome them into MY neighborhood if they were looking for a BETTER place to live." As if all blacks live in worse neighborhoods than yours. As if they NEED your permission.

Your family background doesn't "racist proof" your statements. YOU are always free & loose with charges of racism, are you surprised that when YOU make a racist statement somebody calls you on it scooter?

[AlphaCentauri]

70. just proof I'm a racist and let out the label for the RW nuts please. n/t

[KingFlorez]

59. Not all these gang members are illegal

A lot of them were born here, so there really isn't much point in connecting it to illegal immigration.

[Wcross]

61. Yup, only 72% are illegal aliens (ms-13)

http://www.isaintel.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=107&Itemid=1

Due to its violent nature, the MS-13 is a top law enforcement target for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), which has worked closely with the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to organize and implement nationwide sting operations.
~snip~


Some members were charged with assault, kidnapping and human trafficking. The vast majority, however, were charged with immigration violations. Of the 1,300 arrested, 939 will be deported back to their home countries, such as Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala or Honduras.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If this bust is representative of the makeup of MS-13 then only 72% of the members of MS-13 are illegal aliens. If you have other statistics, by all means share them.

[KingFlorez]

63. There are other gangs besides that one

MS-13 is not the only gang, there are others and they are committing just as much crime. Most gang members overall are citizens, so trying to tie this into some big illegal immigration argument is pointless, like I stated before.

[AlphaCentauri]

66. You are right

someone is pretending that 1000 criminals represent the 12 millions undocumented immigrants.

[Wcross]

67. You are the one doing that scooter.

My replies have been directed at the ORIGINAL ARTICLE POSTED regarding criminal gangs. You NEVER miss a chance to tie ANYTHING into the entire illegal immigrant population. Oh, BTW. Calling illegal immigrants "undocumented immigrants" is the same as calling drug dealers "unlicensed pharmacists". They are breaking the law of the United States plain & simple.

[AlphaCentauri]

65. Thanks to Reagan for MS13 n/t

[EFerrari]

74. You logic is specious as per your usual on immigration threads.

That stat is of the people taken into custody.

And, that means 72% of the people taken into custody COULD NOT BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME, only an administrative immigration violation.

LOL

Maybe you forgot to count the lepers or the looters.

[Wcross]

79. Did you mean "Illegal immigration" threads perhaps?

So they were deported for what reason? They violated our immigration laws. Are you implying immigration laws are not "really" laws? Just what are you saying? Does the word administrative cancel out the word violation in your world?

You have a vested interest in illegal immigration. You are a cheerleader for low cost labor. You are an apologist for those who break our immigration laws. By all appearances you don't give a rats ass about our working poor.

Whats in it for the average citizen? Why is illegal immigration a good thing for the average citizen? Is illegal immigration going to solve our own poverty problems? Why are you such a fan of people who continue to break our laws?

[EFerrari]

81. You confuse criminal law with immigration law.

You don't recognize the kinship among the working poor everywhere that are being exploited.

You are a demonizer of other workers. And, honey, I AM the working poor as well as an advocate for us low these many years.

What is in it for you? What a republican question. What is in it for you to confuse propaganda for reality? Will it enrich you? No.

If every single undocumented person were deported TONIGHT, by sun up, the Corporati would have figured out a new way to screw you over.

That's just math. Beyond that, there's looting and leprosy.

lol

Sorry. I know exactly who you are and what you stand for.

[Wcross]

82. So immigration law is "not really law".

I know exactly who you are too, sweetheart. I don't want to go to that party.

I really have to question this statement;
"You are a demonizer of other workers"- would that be citizens of other countries who come here and offer their services at below market rates? Do you mean the citizens of other countries (12 million is the most conservative estimate) who have come here in order to ease a labor shortage that would have raised the wages of native born citizens? No need to offer health care benefits with 12 million extra workers in the economy. Do you mean citizens of other countries who have violated our laws? I guess "other workers" means illegal immigrants? :puke:

You NEVER seem to be able to answer the question of WHY is illegal immigration a good thing for American citizens. In what way does the average American benefit? Better yet, tell me HOW our own working poor benefit.

[Bacchus39]

83. its a "Republican" question so no response is warranted

another question or issue that no-one seems to want to address is the actual subject of the thread, latino gangs targeting blacks.

[Wcross]

84. No, a republican would ask what was wrong with depressed wages?

People willing to break our immigration laws in order to be exploited? That's a republicans wet dream.

[Bacchus39]

85. she said it not me, but I think I can give you a clue

both the title of the thread and your "attacks" on illegal immigrants hit close to home if you know what I mean.

[Wcross]

88. I didn't get that far into the message...

I didn't get that far down the tripe before I could read no more. I know who she is. I am hoping she will put me back on her ignore list. She has NEVER answered "the republican question" as she puts it. Wonder why.

[ohio2007]

86. M13 seen as public enemy # 2.. Doubt anybody wants to go up against them

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec05/gangs_10-05.html


MS-13 gang racists kill whites veterans memorial new haven
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1U854PyaQS0

[ohio2007]

87. MS-13 Gang "National Threat #2" Says U.S. Government

The U.S. government says that the MS-13 gang is the #2 threat after Al-Qaeda for the internal national security of the U.S.A. The huge gang infests 33 U.S. states.

The MS-13 is starting "race wars" in California jails, shooting police officers in Texas, has put a bounty for dead border guards, it is "ethnically cleansing" black residents from Los Angeles neighborhoods and is responsible for smuggling 300,000 illegal aliens into the USA a year. Over the last 3 years the MS-13 has killed most mexican "coyote" human smugglers in the state of Chiapas and taken over the illegal alien trade.

MS-13 is also overtaking the prostitution trade in the USA, smuggling cocaine, marihuana and weapons.



video
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=be7_1199321360

[AlphaCentauri]

92. poverty should be #350

:think:

[silverojo]

101. I totally agree with your post

Everything but the subject line, LOL.

[TankLV]

89. The M13 gang is the worst of the scum - the government should do all it can to get rid of these

vermin - by any means possible...

anybody who stands up for these vermin is an IDIOT...

[ohio2007]

90. Some people think they should be given voting rights

wtf ?

Hey,
I want voting rights to countries I'm not a citizen of also ...
aint gonna happen though.

[AlphaCentauri]

91. LOL

[ohio2007]

93. There's one vet in Reno that practiced his freedom of speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YMkA

Wonder who he votes for?
Wonder if MS-13 will deal with him accordingly ...

[AlphaCentauri]

94. I would do the same, don't you

[silverojo]

96. This isn't news

The Latinos have been going after blacks for ages, whether it's rival gangs or high-school violence.

They can call it what they like, but these are hate crimes against blacks, pure and simple. They're no better than the KKK. :grr:

[Enoch1981]

102. Didn't the crips and bloods target Asians and Hispanics?

I guess that wasn't as newsworthy given the immigration nonsense. It sounds to me like they sowed the seeds of this when they targeted Asians and Hispanics during the LA Riots and beyond, and innocent people got caught in the crossfire. Did anyone forget the LA riots when they looted and burned Korean-owned businesses and beat any Asian or Hispanic person they could find?

It might count as a hate crime, but ethnic cleansing? From most of the replies, it looks like no one read the rest of the article. Typical immigration 'debate' nonsense and hyperbole. I'm guessing most of those gang members were native born US citizens, but of course no one wants to say that. Nor does anyone want to say that LA's murder rate dropped recently. I guess that shouldn't get in the way of a good rant, lol.

:rofl:

[NorthernSpy]

110. Rand study of LA rioters: 51% Latino, 36% black, 13% white

So your formulation of the 1992 events -- Hispanics as the co-victims with Koreans, both of them arrayed against black rioters -- is simply false.


http://books.google.com/books?id=5t9eUXEJiagC&pg=PA170&lpg=PA170&dq=la+rioters+latino+rand&source=web&ots=lKwGv02GQX&sig=CTRGDKIVT5tmZArjrhaiSSnpJ8o

[AlphaCentauri]

117. Sincerely I did not watch any Latino or White people pulling people out of their cars

I believe the 51% of latinos arrested were charged with looting not burning, shooting or assault.
The videos I have seen show a black man pulling a latino woman from her hair, a Korean store owner shooting some looters. In other incidents the national guard shooting a latino man who did not stop his car.

The article is just a spin of what really happened.

[NorthernSpy]

123. so on the basis of THREE brief video clips, you're going to discount the stats...

... reflecting a much larger body of evidence about the rioters.

:eyes:


Most of the 1992 rioters were Latino. Sorry if you don't want to accept that.

[ohio2007]

126. May 5, 1990

Mexican holidaze
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHo0gJ6DWPc&feature=related

[Enoch1981]

119. Those numbers are meaningless, sorry.

Did those 51% mostly carry out the racial attacks that were directed against Koreans. Or did those among the 36% disproportionately represent the numbers as far as perpetrators of racially motivated attacks. So, because Hispanics numbered among the perpetrators means none were victims? Really?

I cited the LA riots as an example of black gangs targeting Asians, which seems to fail to garner the same amount of outrage as the isolated examples of Latino gangs targeting blacks. If I recall correctly, although I don't necessarily think that Stanley Williams was guilty, he was convicted of the murders of an Asian family during the course of a robbery. Or, there's an anecdote about the actual founder of the Crips, Raymond Washington, robbing a group of Asian business owners who were coming from a meeting. And, of course, in West Coast rap, there is abundant examples of this from what is arguably the same milleu.

Good job on citing written documents, though. I might check that book out, thanks.

[NorthernSpy]

124. actually, the riots generated a LOT of outrage, and for you to say they didn't...

... is just false revisionism on your part.

Did those 51% mostly carry out the racial attacks that were directed against Koreans. Or did those among the 36% disproportionately represent the numbers as far as perpetrators of racially motivated attacks. So, because Hispanics numbered among the perpetrators means none were victims? Really?

Please. They were both. For the matter of that, blacks also figured in the riots as both victims and perpetrators.

If I recall correctly, although I don't necessarily think that Stanley Williams was guilty, he was convicted of the murders of an Asian family during the course of a robbery.

Yes, and he was executed for it. What were you saying about society not taking that sort of thing seriously?

And, of course, in West Coast rap, there is abundant examples of this from what is arguably the same milleu.

I know that several rap songs mention the killing of Latasha Harlins, who was assaulted by a Korean store owner when she approached the store counter -- money in hand -- to pay for the orange juice that she had set in her backpack (unconcealed, with the top of container sticking out). After Harlins hit her assailant, threw the orange juice on the counter, and had begun to walk out of the store, the store owner shot her in the back of her head. This was all captured on the surveillance tape.

The store owner got a mere 5 years probation for that, despite having attempted to cover up the incident by falsely reporting a robbery. I think that this incident occurred in 1991.


Is that what you're referring to?

[ohio2007]

125. word

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np92OSY3YBc

[gorbal]

107. I used to live in the Highland park area

Glad I got out of there- My brothers girlfriend was mugged horribly just walking down the street. I don't know if it was because she was african american or not (I don't remember if she knew the race of the attacker) but It makes me think.

[Xenotime]

109. There is also signifigant racism against muslims as well.

[ohio2007]

111. Isn't that like saying racism against christians can be measured this way also ?

Sorry, Islam isn't a race.

[amandabeech]

113. In LA? By whom? n/t

[ohio2007]

114. By the gangs in the prison systems? nt

[panzerfaust]

122. People are People

"Whites, Blacks, Browns, Yellows, Reds" have all been racist at one time or another. Many still are.

If we can ever get past racial hatreds, then we will still have to confront the religious ones ... which seem to me to be even more divisive.

[ohio2007]

127. Gangsters Dont Die,

Gangsters Dont Die, We Multiply!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHb4xZFzLck&feature=related

MS 13 are people too