Call for pope to step down over Holocaust denier

[struggle4progress]

Source: Mail & Guardian

... "If the pope wants to do some good for the church, he should leave his job," eminent liberal Catholic theologian Hermann Haering told the German daily Tageszeitung.

"That would not be a scandal, a bishop has to relinquish his position at 75 years, a cardinal loses his rights at 80 years," he said ...

The bishop of Rottenburg-Stuttgart, Gebhard Furst, meanwhile spoke of his "uncertainty, incomprehension and deception" in the national Bild ...

Vienna's cardinal and archbishop, Christoph Schoenborn, on Sunday lashed out at the decision to bring Williamson back into the fold, saying that "he who denies the Holocaust cannot be rehabilitated within the Church" ...

Read more: http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-02-02-call-for-pope-to-step-down-over-holocaust-denier

[Ian David]

1. Would Der Popenfuhrer then be allowed to marry the catamite of his choice? n/t

[naaman fletcher]

5. although a lapsed Catholic..

I am familiar of course with the Church, and have no problem with undoing this guys excommunication. F'd up political or historical views do not under the catechism have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not someone is excommunicated.

This thing over the Austrain Bishop is the real outrage.. almost makes me wonder if the holocaust guy thing was a diversion before sneaking in this Austrian as a new bishop.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. So it is acceptable for them to be liars?

History is made of factual events not various 'views'. This scoundrel tells lies. I guess that is as dandy with the RCC as it is with their fellow gay bashers, the LDS. Lie about everything, although commanded not to, while spewing forth judgement at others.
disgusting

[naaman fletcher]

20. u r confusing the issue..

the issue is, what do you get excommunicated for? there are a list of things, they don't change over time. hey, don't get mad at me.. i'm lapsed for a reason.

[Peace Patriot]

41. Have you ever read a history of the Catholic Church with an 'imprimatur' on it

(the Vatican's stamp of approval)? These guys INVENTED lying.

I was forced to read that swill when I was a kid. It did me good, though. It prepared me for Faux News and Bushwhacks, and the Associated Pukes, and the New York Times.

[Ian David]

23. What ever happened to "thou salt not bear false witness against thy neighbor?"

I'd say that would be more important than "thou shalt not do yucky things with grown men."

[dbonds]

2. Why can't a man that believes in a false history...

be allowed to be part of a group that believes in a bigger false fantastical history?

[TomClash]

7. That describes the adherents of every religion nt

[dbonds]

8. Exactly, well those that believe in a historical being anyway.

[Soylent Brice]

10. i applaud you. n/t

[MessiahRp]

22. LOL great post

And so incredibly true.

Rp

[krister]

28. Makes sense to me. n/t

[LeftishBrit]

45. Williamson is a fucking fascist all round

I'm an atheist myself; but this is more than his having even excessively fundie views. His holocaust denial is associated (as it usually is) with general antisemitism, and indeed bigotry against all non-Catholics. He defends the past executions of 'heretics', for example. He is racist, and sexist to a degree that makes one wonder if he's got the words 'Vatican' and 'Taliban' mixed up: he opposes higher education for women and has said 'ideas are not for girls'. He should not be anywhere near any position of power. I'm ashamed that he's British by origin.

[Demeter]

3. Like That's Really Going to Help

The problem for Catholicism isn't this Pope in particular, it's all of them in general.

[Captain Needa]

4. Yeah, go and tell Palpie to step down

You do not know the power of the Dark Side!

[Blue_In_AK]

6. I used to say "Is the Pope Polish?"

in response to an obvious question when John Paul was pope. Now I say "Is the Pope a Nazi?" It appears that he may be. I just find this story very disturbing. I'm glad I'm not a Catholic having to believe his "infallibility" and all.

[glinda]

17. He was supposedly a close friend to the last Pope but

many complained or noted his extreme conservative views and even John Paul did not apparently approve. The "Polish Pope" had far more sympathy, understanding and class than this guy. Even the Dalhi Lama saying he felt he was in the presence of a holy man. Yes, the new Pope is a former Nazi. His pushing and edict toward "Evangelizing" the Catholic Church is killing the little remaining good that the Church can do. He should go for the betterment of the Church. I think he is evil. He also gave a really angry, shrewd and perhaps jealous look at the people during the burial when they cried out for the last Pope to be Canonized. It gave me chills and left the impression that he was power hungry and jealous. I wish they would make him leave.

[roguevalley]

31. he grew up inculcated with anti semitism and he was the head of

inquisition. Either thing is anathema to Jesus and his messianic movement.

[Dr.Phool]

29. I say, "Is the bear Catholic? Does the Pope shit in the woods?"

[GinaMaria]

37. That's the name of a board game!

http://www.amazon.com/The-Catholic-Nostalgia-Game-Pope/dp/B000OR7G92

Actually it's Is The Pope Catholic?

The one I played way back when had a pic of a bear squatting in the woods on the cover. Made me laugh every time.

The See Me After School nun cards were way worse than any of the sin cards. The whole board was a rosary where you moved around answering Baltimore Catechism questions and trying to collect indulgences. Each trip around elevated you a level starting from Alter Boy all the way up to Pope.


IIRC one of the questions had to do with finding a four leaf clover... what do you do?

The answer was destroy it because it is false idol worship of some such thing. Don't know if this game is even made any more, but it was pretty funny.

[paparush]

9. Wait! Isn't Ratzinger supposed to be the "last Pope" as predicted by Nostrodamus or

the Mayans or Alvin and the Chipmunks, or somesuch?

We don't want to screw with the delicate balance of the predicted universe.

[juno jones]

18. He is the next to last.

According to prophecy there is one more. Perhaps to come about as result of a scism in the church resulting in a pope and anti-pope. Check out the websites of John Hogue and Apokalypso for more insight.

edit to add: not the prophecies of Nostradamus, but St Malachy, an early Irish saint.

[paparush]

27. Yeah..St. Malachy..that guy.

[Spinzonner]

34. Is that anything like a Quark and anti-Quark ?

[scytherius]

11. Glad Religion does this to itself.

That way people don't have to be convinced from outside sources that organized religion is nothing but control of lives through fear mongering.

[Tarc]

13. These people weren't excommunicated for denying the Holocaust, though

In the end, who cares what the Popes does? Catholicism is becoming increasingly irrelevancy in the US. Let them fade.

[greiner3]

14. Fuck the catholic church;

Just saying :rofl:

[scytherius]

16. lol Well said. nt

nt

[anonymous171]

25. Why? nt

[Hugabear]

44. Why not?

I think the Catholic Church has done enough over the centuries to warrant this type of attitude towards it.

[AngryOldDem]

49. Do we really have to count the ways? n/t

[AngryOldDem]

48. Somebody had to say it!

:rofl:

[zbdent]

15. but did the guy forget to pay his taxes?

(or, more accurately, did the guy's ACCOUNTANT forget to work the taxes correctly) ...

THAT would disqualify him ...

[FloridaJudy]

19. Umm...somehow I don't think this will work

I'm pretty sure one can't impeach a pope, and I don't think I've ever heard of one resigning.

I suspect three German clerics are soon to be on the Vatican's Shit List.

[struggle4progress]

21. If a Pope Resigns... (Natl Catholic Weekly / 2000)

If a Pope Resigns...
By The Most Rev. Kenneth E. Untener | MARCH 25, 2000

... Could a pope resign?

Yes, and some popes have in fact resigned. The number is debated because of historical uncertainties (most cases go back many centuries). One instance of which we are sure is that of Celestine V, who resigned in 1294 after serving less than six months as pope. He was a monk and wanted to live a life of solitude.

Much to the surprise of many people, current church law explicitly provides for the resignation of a pope: "If it should happen that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office, it is required for validity that he make the resignation freely and that it be duly manifested, but not that it be accepted by anyone" (Canon 332.2) ...

http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=608

[FloridaJudy]

26. I did not know this.

Thanks for clarifying. I suspect that clause was written to cover a pope's seriously incapacitating illness, though. But if this pope wants to resign and take a vow of silence, I'm certainly not going to try to stop him.

[LeftishBrit]

46. I know about this from reading a translation of Dante's 'Inferno'

Dante considered the resignation (the 'great refusal' as he called it) to be an act of cowardice; and placed Celestine in his 'Vestibule' for those who never take a stand on anything and can be accepted by neither heaven nor hell. I always thought this was hard on Celestine: why shouldn't he have been a monk and rejected the seat of power, if that's what he preferred?

[struggle4progress]

24. Analysis: German Anger at Pope's Pardon of Bishop Continues

... That Benedict went ahead and publicized the bishops' pardon, just three days before Holocaust Memorial Day, is seen as an oversight at best, and at worst a lack of concern for the repercussions.

Benedict defused some of the anger when he publicly expressed "solidarity" with Jewish communities during his general audience last Wednesday. He recalled his pilgrimages to Auschwitz and said the former Nazi death camp represented a "warning against oblivion, (Holocaust) denial and reductionism."

Rome's Chief Rabbi, Riccardo Di Segni, said the pontiff's words were "necessary and welcome and contribute to clear many misunderstandings."

Also apparently satisfied was Israel's ambassador to the Holy See, Mordechai Levy. On Friday Levy attended the presentation at the Vatican of a volume of ancient Hebrew manuscripts ...

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3997462,00.html

[newtothegame]

30. He'll get right on that n/t

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

32. Catholic trivia: Only one Pope has ever resigned - Celestine V in 1294.

One popular story suggests that he was elected as a joke after the college of cardinals deadlocked. While he was a very holy man, he was an inept administrator and quickly realized it. After his resignation he returned to a life of simplicity.

His successor had him assassinated in order to avoid confusion over who was in charge.

[krister]

33. The Pope is appointed by God

so he must be doing good by condoning Holocaust denial.

[nichomachus]

35. Actually the pope is appointed

by a bunch of old men who got their jobs only because of him.

But I know what you're trying to say.

Most of the college of cardinal were named by Ratzinger through the Old Fraud John Paul II. They were chosen for their ideology and their willingness to not ask any questions. They owe everything to Ratzo.

[krister]

40. Yes,

but God LET'S them appoint the pope.

[olegramps]

36. He is not the real problem.

Yes, people can be outraged about this jerks denial of the Holocaust, but the basic issue it that Ratzinger is only pursuing the John Paul II agenda of wiping out the reforms of Vatican II. I can't believe that Catholics view John Paul II in a positive light. He had the most influence on upholding the church's ridiculous positing on birth control. He was a member of the Papal Birth Control Commission which voted overwhelmingly to revise the church's position, but he boycotted the meeting in which the final vote was taken and then lied about not attending. He was a major contributor to the encyclical restating the church's condemnation.

But then most Catholic are not even aware of the Birth Control Commission and its recomendations. Just another case of ignorant sheep.

[salguine]

38. Where's "Call for pope to step down over institutionalized child molestation"?

[chollybocker]

39. I can think of 100 reasons why the popeHOOD should be abolished,

but this particular reason wouldn't make my top 25.

[xchrom]

42. recommend -- the pope goes -- and the church speeds it's way

back to vatican 2.

[defendandprotect]

43. Step down -- or recall him -- send some pink smoke up the Vatican chimney ---

"you're fired!" ...

[AngryOldDem]

47. LOL.

That's like asking the sun not to rise.

It will never happen, because it would mean a tacit acknowledgement that the man is a bonehead. That would kinda tarnish the image Catholics have of their leader.