Sweat lodge survivor: Guru pushed too far

[RamboLiberal]

Source: MSNBC/AP

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. - A woman who took part in an Arizona sweat lodge ceremony said the spiritual guru who led the event pushed participants too far in what was supposed to be a life-expanding experience that culminated with people vomiting and passing out on the floor.

Texas resident Beverley Bunn is the first participant in the tragic incident to speak out publicly about the events that led up to the deaths. The 43-year-old told the AP that by the time the sweat lodge ceremony began, the participants had undergone days of physically and mentally strenuous events that included fasting. In one game, she said, guru James Arthur Ray even played God.

Within an hour of entering the sweat lodge, people began vomiting, gasping for air and collapsing. Yet Bunn said Ray continually urged everyone to stay inside. The ceremony was broken up into 15-minute "rounds," with the entrance flap to the lodge opened briefly and more heated rocks brought inside between sessions.

"I can't get her to move. I can't get her to wake up," Bunn recalled hearing from two sides of the 415-square-foot sweat lodge. Ray's response: "Leave her alone, she'll be dealt with in the next round."

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33415987/ns/us_news-life/

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As someone who watched people treat Martial Arts Masters & Instructors as gurus it always amazed me how people who give up their own free will & common sense to someone who may be talking out their ass when it came to the students/participants well-being & safety.

[virgogal]

1. If we treated prisoners this way it would be a national scandal. What

on earth would make a person accept this treatment voluntarily,and for a hefty fee?

[Eric J in MN]

6. People run marathons to test their endurance.

The customers at the sweat lodge were testing their endurance, under pressure from James Arthur Ray.

[Chulanowa]

8. If only you were right

Most Americans would think this is an awesome idea for our prisons. After all, even in our progressive, warm and fuzzy community, prison rape is often considered not just part of the punishment of prison, but also something to encourage and be laughed about.

As for your question, that's pretty simple - even new Age-ism doesn't lack the heaps of guilt that make religion famous. People felt they were "impure" in some fashion and were more than willing to let someone "fix" them for a fee.

[Frank Cannon]

17. These idiots paid $9,000+ for the privilege

I wish I knew why I don't have the gene that would allow me to take advantage of people who choose not to think. I would love to make a fortune off of stupid people, but I just can't. I choose to educate. I guess that's why I'm broke most of the time.

[Richard D]

2. So sad

And so incompetent. I hope full-on charges and civil suits are filed. Every person in this so called sweat lodge was traumatized. And I hope that ray, after his time in prison, spends the rest of his life selling "the secret" at Wal-marts.

[snagglepuss]

3. With gurus like that who needs enemies? nt

[Eric J in MN]

4. When it comes to sky-diving or boating or whatever,

...the customers generally figure that the person in charge knows more than they do about the activity.

And usually he does.

I blame James Arthur Ray, not the customers.

[NRaleighLiberal]

5. some people take their life searches to bizarre conclusions.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

11. The sweatlodge is a very long standing ---

spiritual tradition that can be a great thing to experience. Done properly.

This from start to finish was all wrong.

[Warpy]

7. That testimony alone will get his ass into that sling

First will come prison for reckless endangerment or whatever else they can think up to throw at him. Then will come the civil suits that will leave him without anything but his capped teeth and charisma when he gets out of jug.

A lot of this pseudo eastern and Indian stuff is downright dangerous, but it appeals to the Puritan in a lot of people.

Buddha said asceticism would get you part way there, but only part way. He was right about that, but people still keep trying it until it kills them.

[imdjh]

9. lsd is cheaper , safer, and more fun

[Rebubula]

13. Yeah...

..but these days, It is easier to find a sweat lodge!

Damn MDMA and Meth for screwing up my supply lines!

[get the red out]

10. These people were voluntary participants

What about people, especially women and girls, who suffer their whole lives without even basic citizen rights because they were born into some home-grown cult that the US Government won't touch because of "freedom of religion"?

I think this guy does need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but so do a lot of these "gurus" and their cult members helped.

[tekisui]

12. Guru? The guy is a scam artist.

[azmesa207]

14. Sweat lodge

It alway easy to blame some one else for one own stupidity he may have urged them to stay but no one was forced to be in there in the first place . A sweat lodge is not a safe place in the first place and you entered at your own risk .

[JoeyT]

16. That's not quite how it works.

If I sell you something that I assure you is a magic potion that will cure all disease and it's actually a bottle of poison, it isn't your fault when you drink it and die. Sure drinking random shit a stranger gives you is dangerous and you do it at your own risk...that doesn't absolve the person that assured you it was safe from guilt.
This guy wasn't educating people about the dangers of sweat lodges. Hell I doubt he knew about them himself. Until this I doubt most people knew.

[Zorra]

21. I've participated in many traditional sweats.

I've never seen anyone hurt - but people that participate in traditional sweats almost invariably understand what they are doing. Aboriginal peoples have been participating in traditonal sweats for centuries without harm.

I don't know what that weirdness was in Angel Valley, but it was definitely not a traditional sweat lodge.

[kimmerspixelated]

15. OMFG!

If its the same James Ray that wrote that book-Harmonious Wealth, I am crestfallen! I loved that book! He sure didn't seem like a jerk with everything I've read about him. I guess not everyone is like they seem! What a shame!

[chatnoir]

22. Harmonic Wealth? Yep, one and the same

[damntexdem]

18. "Life-expanding experience": hey, a new term for death!

I would call it: appropriating another's cultural legacy and then getting it so wrong as to kill.

[SDuderstadt]

19. One of the more outrageous aspects of this was...

one of the survivors and participants in a post-incident conference call with Ray reported that a "channeler" said of the initial two victims who died that they were (paraphrasing)"having an out-of-body experience and having so much fun, they decided not to come back".

If I had been anywhere near the idiot who said that, they would have been having their own "out-of-body experience", despite my opposition to violence as a way to resolve things.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

20. I'm really starting to believe that as we advance in the technological arena,

more and more people are losing the ability to think and reason without someone or something telling them what to do.

[Frank Cannon]

24. I think it's a symptom of Alvin Toffler's "Future Shock"

The same reason we seem to be hearing so much from the creationists and other fundie nuts of late.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

25. Wow, that brings back memories from a long time ago.

One of my English teachers in High School gave me a 5 (we used number grades instead of letter grades) because I was the only one that would volunteer to read Future Shock and do a report on it.

I should probably re-read it and see how accurate it was. I hate to admit this, but I can't really remember much of what was in it.

Have they determined what actually was the cause of death of the three people yet?

[Frank Cannon]

27. I read it in high school, too. I think it was pretty accurate.

Basically, Toffler proposed that technology was advancing so rapidly, and at an ever-increasing pace, that many people just can't deal with the stress of it all. A simpler worldview, such as is provided by fundamentalist religion, provides an escape.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

28. OK, I can live with that.

Thanks for the reply. I really didn't feel like reading it again. The one thing that I do remember is that it seemed to have quite a few pages.

[marions ghost]

23. A lot of hot air

sweat lodge scams and a boy not in a balloon...

Arrogance and greed and delusions of grandeur. Excuse my vomiting...

RIP to the victims of this tragedy. Mr. Ray will pay.

Yes, I think there's something to the point that in desperate times, people do desperate things.

[skipos]

26. "amazed me how people who give up their own free will & common sense"

Are you familiar with this study?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment