Pay row workers: 'We're going to blow up the factory'

[Joe Chi Minh]

Source: UK Daily Mail

Desperate French workers have threatened to blow up their factory in a row over redundancy pay.
Employees have primed a 5,000 litre gas tank to explode at the entrance to the Sodimatex car parts plant near Paris.
The men have warned they will 'raze the entire building to the ground' unless they receive £15,000 each in compensation.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1263016/Were-going-blow-plant-French-workers-prime-5-000-litre-gas-tank-explode-row-redundancy-pay.html

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I'm not saying anything...

[Brickbat]

1. .

[eleny]

2. Wow, hard core

[Joe Chi Minh]

7. That's the French for you. But you have to have a genuine, hardcore egalitarian ethos,

of course, to even contemplate such a 'measure'. I expect it's reinforced every time they sing their national anthem. I must say, it's stirring, heart-warming stuff. The music of your Stars and Stripes is also stirring and quite beautiful, but I'm afraid the words are so much bullsh*t, a kind of 'opium of the people'.

[Greyhound]

8. Hands down, the best national anthem on earth. n/t

[whathehell]

31. Only in Casablanca....

:rofl:

[Greyhound]

35. I think this may be the start of a beautiful friendship.

[whathehell]

36. Could be!

[whathehell]

30. I think you mean The Star Spangled Banner.....Perhaps you'd like

to be sure of what you're talking about before you call its words "bullshit".

The words of the Star Spangled Banner mainly depict an historic battle in the War of 1812....How would they be bullshit?....

As to the last part regarding "the land of the free and the home of the brave", I don't think you want to got there, do you?.....It could get very "testy" all things considered...Scotland's status as an independent nation, Our role in relation to the entire UK during WWII, etc.

I suggest we pass.:hippie: Peace.

[Joe Chi Minh]

54. Star Spangled Banner. That's it. My apologies.

"The words of the Star Spangled Banner mainly depict an historic battle in the War of 1812....How would they be bullshit?...."

By their inapplicability to the subsequent treatment of the mainstream population by its leaders for most of your country's history. You're so far behind the rest of the developed world just in terms of your health-care, it isn't funny.

As for your armed forces, I've nothing but admiration and affection for them. And have since the age of about three, actually. But they're mostly the people, not the officer sons of Republican politicos, who would appear to be very thin on the ground, but quite representative of your oppressive, corporate, national ethos.

[whathehell]

57. Really?

Our national anthem is not about a social contract. It is a foundational statement about freedom and bravery in standing up to a superpower. It is true that at the time, the freedom did not extend to slaves and full rights and benefits did not extend to women and others, but the subsequent history was a matter of expansion of those rights and opportunities to everyone.

Our own independence inspired others to break away from their own oppressors, leading to the French revolution and the breakup of the Spanish empire. I would say that the ideals represented by America have had quite an impact in changing the world for the better. Eventually, even Scotland found a way to loosen the bonds with England, although complete independence is not part of the picture.

Our health care reform is only the latest example of extending a benefit to the broad population. I would point out that one of the biggest hurdles to overcome in this issue was cost. Adding the cost of expanded health care to the burdens assumed by maintaining a military presence in NATO and elsewhere is considerable. If European countries paid their FAIR share of keeping peace in the world -- or even in Europe, we Americans would have more resources to apply to being more like "the rest of the developed world" in social services. The way the Euros threw their hands up when the Balkans descended into a bloodbath in the early nineties was not your finest hour.

[daleo]

59. The British Empire abolished slavery before the U.S. did

The trade in slaves was made illegal in the British Empire in 1807 (before the battle that the Star Spangled Banner celebrates). Slavery was abolished in the British Empire in 1833, but not until 1865 in the U.S. So the U.S. was hardly out in front of the rest of the world when it comes to expanding freedom in that domain.

Finland gave women the franchise in 1906, 14 years before the U.S. Canada beat the U.S. by a year or so. So the U.S. didn't beat the rest of the world on that one either.

The U.S. has had an important role in advancing democracy but it shouldn't be overstated.

As for the cost of the U.S. military superpower status, that's a decision the U.S. electorate has decided upon. Nobody is forcing the U.S. to take on this role.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline

[whathehell]

66. Yes, I'm well aware of the fact...

It's taught in elementary school...And yes, I even know the name of that war which contained "the battle that the Star Spangled Banner celebrated" As it's called The War of 1812, I kind of get that it followed the year 1807!...Before you go back to Wikipedia for a a few more tidbits, though, you should know that my purpose here is not, and never was, to "overstate" The US role in advancing democracy.

That being said, I'm not going to have someone who probably never set foot in this country tell me that, while he doesn't even know the name of our national anthem, it's lyrics are "bullshit".

As for the U.S. being a Superpower, that role was pretty much thrust upon us after WWII. We saw ourselves as all alone. We live in a world where power still holds sway. NATO was based on the ability of collective power resist hostile forces from outside NATO. The power of NATO has never been tested because it is so overwhelming. The U.S. contribution to NATO makes it so. To keep the peace it is not enough to be able to win a war, but rather to ensure that the other side sees hope of prevailing. If the U.S. withdrew our support from NATO, the NATO members would have to rethink their ability to prevent a belligerent nation from recalculating their odds.

Like most here, I think we spend too much on the military. That being said, there are lots of political arguments in favor of us spending money to "keep the peace". These arguments might hold less sway if other nations produced a more credible military deterrent.

[daleo]

69. If other countries spent more on their militaries

I think that would be used as a justification to spend even more on the American military. That's how the cold war arms race was justified. When powerful financial and political interests want nations to spend mega-billions on arms (and they do), any reasoning can be used to achieve those ends.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with using wiki for non-controversial facts like the years of wars, battles, and legislation. I sometimes use it for these purposes to forestall wrangling about facts that are in the public domain anyway. I could have used more obscure or academic sources, but that strikes me as overkill in such matters.

[whathehell]

72. Well, you can think that.

I am less certain...In any case, continue to use Wikipedia for whatever you want, and have a nice day.

[teknomanzer]

63. HAHAHAHA! Enjoy your kool-aide!

You must have no sense of irony. Today the United States IS the superpower, where are the brave and the free who will stand up to us? It is true that rights and opportunities have very gradually been extended to more people but if you look around you today it looks like someone decided to shift things to reverse. The last time I checked the so called Patriot Act was still in effect and the SCOTUS just declared that corporations are people too.

What example, what inspiration does this country set for the rest of the world today -- torture and pre-emptive strikes? Its starting look as though our best days have passed.

Land of the free? Home of the brave? Where were you the last decade? I'm free to be a consumer and make choices about which useless shit to buy -- actually not even that now that I don't have what the ruling classes in the country want -- money. Bravery? A brave people might have responded differently to the tragedy of 9/11. Instead we got a decade of fear politics at home and cowardly acts of atrocity abroad.

As for health care reform -- I despise anyone who dares call this shit reform. Sure, the worst abuses of the corporate insurance industry were addressed, but this reform is like putting new tires on a car when the engine is about to throw a rod, the transmission is slipping, the brakes are bad, and the driver is stone drunk. Now I'm being told by the government that I am obligated to ride in this car -- how fucked up is that? As a matter of fact HCR is a clear demonstration of how much dissonance exists between the ideals of this country and the realities of corporate power.

Your are absolutely right that we have very little resources to apply to social services at home due to the maintenance of our neo-colonial empire, but to blame Europe for not pulling their fair share is totally disingenuous.

Our anthem is an anachronism played for beer drunk audiences at your local corporate collosium, and that is a damn shame.

[whathehell]

64. Enjoy your bitterness...

I criticize this country because I care about the country, and what great things it can do and has done.

Our superpower status is not an irony. It is a result of history and the cold war, when the U.S. was the only political entity able to mobilize the resources to resist Stalin and the Soviet Union. Now we have to wrestle with the resulting military-industrial interests in order to remain true to our founding ideals.

Sure, a corporate tool managed to get elected president and set up policies of torture and pre-emptive war, but he was replaced by a different man who represents in his person the culmination of the social changes that began with the end of slavery. The election of Obama sent a signal to the world that we can be different.

This country IS in a mess. Changes are difficult to make, and when changes occur, they are incomplete due to the entrenched interests that resist those changes. Health insurance reform is a good example of this. Yet it is change non-the-less. I have been an active critic on this blog of the lack of single payer or a public option, but I like to think that my criticism is well intended. I will not surrender to hopeless bitterness. I will continue to argue for energy reform, climate change legislation, labor reform and many other things. I will be critical because I know that we are still capable of improvement.

Good luck to you. Maybe you can find hope some day ... or somewhere else.

[Warpy]

58. We're now behind the rest of the world in everything

a process that accelerated in 1980 when Reagan allowed the top 0.5% to loot the country with impunity.

Our infrastructure is rotted, our people are overworked, underpaid and unhealthy, and too much of our strategic industry is gone.

This country reminds me of a soap bubble, shiny on the outside but nothing on the inside but thin air. A small scale economic embargo will show us just how fragile our bubble really is.

[Stumbler]

65. Bingo! Well said

Edited to add:

Actually, we do lead other nations in the world in terms of incarcerated citizens, both as a total number and in per capita terms.
USA! USA! Still #1 in something!

[ProudDad]

62. The star strangled banana?

It's a bloody poem...

written by a lawyer...

a captive of the British...

while the British were busy winning the battles...

on their way to set fire to Washington, D.C.

Set to an old upper-class English drinking song...

It's a triumphalist bullshit piece of work that perfectly exhibits the USAmerikan Imperial so-called "character"...

[whathehell]

67. Triumphalist?

Yes, dear, but "bullshit" only if we'd lost..As you've no doubt heard, that wasn't the case, as much as you might regret the fact.

Why don't you take your anglophile ass out of Arizona and go back to that "bloody" country you clearly prefer....

[No Elephants]

42. Most people have no clue what the words to Star Spangled Banner are, let alone mean.

So, I'm not sure it functions to lull anyone.

[whathehell]

53. Really....Did you come across a study to that effect?...Take a poll?

I'm not sure who you mean by "most people"...I know the words..Do you??

Or are you just engaging in some knee-jerk "Americans are ignorant" shit?...If that's the case, you need to speak for yourself!

If, by "most people" you mean Americans, minus any data, I would decidedly question that. If I'm not mistaken, hildren sing the national anthem all through their school years, I certainly did. In addition, it's played before every national sports event and the words SUNG before every game of baseball.

Our friend from Scotland didn't even get the name right, so frankly, I'm not sure he knows the song he's talking about, let alone knowing if it's "bullshit" and/or the "opiate of the people" ..I suspect he doesn't since the song is mainly an account of a battle in the War of 1812...and unless he's got historic "issues" with the account, I'd say he's full of BS himself.

The Brits did much better. After the events of 9/11, many Londoners stood in front of the American Embassy and sung the song in full...I was touched.

[Common Sense Party]

3. What is "redundancy pay"? Is that their term for severance pay?

[Joe Chi Minh]

4. Yes. Surplus to requirements. 'Downsizing'.

[HillbillyBob]

5. yes

some times the French have a good idea..blowing up the plant seems excessive though. The government needs to work for us not the corpses.

[enlightenment]

6. Yes.

In Britain you are not fired or 'let go' or laid off; you are made redundant.

[Mika]

9. Le Lutte Club å La Français

:nuke:

[Gin]

11. wow....this is interesting....curious to see how this plays out

I guess I am redundant

[troubledamerican]

10. The Take

[notesdev]

12. Let me know if it works

I'll book a flight to France the next day and hold every damn factory in the country hostage. I'm gonna be rich!

[Citizen Worker]

14. Save your airfare

Instead of Paris you could go to Pittsburgh, PA, Gary, IN, Youngstown, OH or Detroit, MI. If only we had the ethos of the French, as someone said up thread, or we observed the principle creed of the Knights Of Labor, where An "Injury To One Is An Injury To All." In the current era monopoly capitalism passive observance will not stop the juggernaut.

[Rapier09]

13. That is insanity that passes for France these days

Thank god I left.

Bear in mind that yes,companies have to pay their workers what they owe them.However one should be aware of the long-term implications of making companies unwelcome in France.

Young workers are going to be that much less likely to find work because of this.The older ones will threaten, cajole and bully as much money out of the companies as they can.This is about them,not an egalitarian community or anything else.

As long as they got their share,everyone else can piss off.

[PSPS]

15. "making companies unwelcome in France"

Bear in mind that yes,companies have to pay their workers what they owe them.However one should be aware of the long-term implications of making companies unwelcome in France.

Oh, really? "Companies" will just pack up and go, leaving the French without any "companies" at all? I think not. If some "companies" decide to close or feel "unwelcome," I'm quite sure others will eagerly take their place. You know, the kind that pay their obligations. The desirable kind. The kind that don't feel that they are god's gift to humanity merely by being in business.

[Lost4words]

19. Its about standing up to power for what is right.

I used to believe we had that attribute since we as a nation were born from revolution. We are now a nation of the wealthy, for the wealthy, by the wealthy. And its so totally sad.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lost4words]

23. you are being a little harsh, we dont know if they are a twit.

[No Elephants]

44. LOL

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

48. Meh. Freepervile=RW ideology, not ad hominem. Ad hominem occurs on ALL message boards.

Unfortunate, perhaps, but, like so many unfortunate things, true.

While I generally eschew ad hominem comments (except possibly retaliation), I have no problem with ad hominem comments at DU when directed at RWers, They are not supposed to post here in the first place. So, if they trespass, they have it coming, IMO.

Best to make RWers feel unwelcome here before they hit 1000 posts, when it becomes harder to get rid of them, as some of the posts on this thread demonstrate.

;-)

[No Elephants]

49. Too late to edit my prior post, but typing it prompted me to Google Du for

one such poster who had many, many, many more than 1000 posts, but who I have not seen in a while.

I found his name on this thread (not in the OP, but on the thread). http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7958504

So, while difficult to get rid of someone with over 1000 posts who consistently posts RW but otherwise obeys the rules, apparently it is not impossible.

I had mixed feelings about his having been tombstoned, though. Since I don't alert often, I had hoped to provoke/shame him into leaving voluntarily. I wish I knew what got him TSd. Whatever it was, it was LONG overdue.

[cosmicone]

39. Amazing.....

We don't even know if what the workers are demanding is contractually agreed to between the company and the union.

Maybe the company is stiffing the workers or it could be plain blackmail.

In either case, threats of blowing up the factory are not justified in a civilized society.

It is sad to see DUers cheering this, whether pro-union, pro-labor or not.

[Lost4words]

21. I sure the French are glad you left as well.

just kidding :silly:

[Greyhound]

37. ...and reducing or eliminating onerous corporate and income taxes hurts

everybody in the long-run.
:eyes:
I've worked with quite a few Europeans with similar views, unfailingly upper-level with an eye to deny or circumvent the very benefits that allowed them to get where they are. Vivendi was the worst (foreign company) I had to work with and was one of reasons I ended my old career altogether. Scum of the earth.

[No Elephants]

43. Meh. The only way to make companies welcome these days seems to be to work for next to nothing.

Or, ccompanies piss off to places like Tunisia.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

52. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............

are you sure you are in the right place?

[daleo]

60. Companies leave the U.S. all the time

Passive acceptance of capitalist dogma is no guarentee that corporations will respect a local workforce. Common sense and history tell you that the opposite is true.

[Lost4words]

16. Viva Le France!

I telling you, they dont take shit for long before they hit the streets. So many knock the French, hell, they have more moxie than we do.

[Joanne98]

17. Love the French!

[Lost4words]

22. Best Wine in the world, wine without preservatives is quite good!

IMO

[Odin2005]

20. Vive le France! Vive le Socialisme!!!

[Lagomorph]

24. If that isn't terrorism...

...what is?

[AlbertCat]

25. If that isn't terrorism... what is?

Not telling anyone about the booby trap?

Blowing up a federal building full of people without warning and for no good reason?

[Greyhound]

26. LOL!

:kick: & R

[dencol]

27. Exploiting workers through predatory capitalism. n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

55. Neoliberalism; downsizing for short-term profit; prioritizing the wealth of

the stockholders over that of the general population. They'll do for a start.

[Lagomorph]

68. Well, that's how it works...

You put your money down, if it flies, you win, if it doesn't, you lose. Stockholders are people too. 99% of them aren't rich. The People put their money into the economy via 401K's, IRA's and direct investment.

Bailouts are are not good for the economy, since they reward failure. Every day investors lose millions, while a lucky few get a Get out of Jail Free card.

We take care of our weakest citizens with subsidies, and now we take care of our weakest industries with subsidies.

One of those is a humanitarian issue, while the other is just plain stupid.

[demigoddess]

28. at least you have to admire their guts!!! they don't roll over and play dead!!

[whathehell]

32. I like that part, yes. n/t

[Synicus Maximus]

29. It may just be me but isn't blowing up the factory where you work

kind of counter productive?

[Caretha]

33. Actually

they aren't going to be working at "the factory" anymore, so your question is kinda 'redundant'. hehe

[Flora]

38. Pay Row??

WTH are Pay Row workers? Is this a language barrier thing?

[No Elephants]

46. Maybe a headline writer thing--trying to be concise. Workers involved in a row over pay.

[14thColony]

50. The source is a UK paper

'Row' is the preferred term in British English for a fight, scuffle, dispute, etc. Very commonly used even in normal conversation.
'Made redundant' is the preferred term for being laid-off, fired for being excess to requirements, downsized, etc.

Note that these are not French terms.

And this 'row' rhymes with 'cow', not like 'row a boat'.

[harmonicon]

40. Go France!

Those fuckers take labor seriously.

[Greyhound]

41. K&R, just to piss off the morans. n/t

[No Elephants]

45. Me. too.

[ima_sinnic]

47. kick & rec for people who refuse to bend over and take it

which I guess some on this thread consider more "civilized"

[treestar]

51. This is violence

No excuse for it, end of story.

There are civilized ways for dealing with disputes.

[Joe Chi Minh]

56. "After you, Claud. It is a far, far greater thing... glug, glug, glug." Stream of

bubbles on surface.

He was a very temporary citizen But what a gentleman! I take my hat off to you, Sir. Or, rather, your memory..."

If you tried it over there, or we did in the UK, we'd be toast. Or rather "dead meat". I always rued the fact we didn't have a revolution in Britain like the French. If we had one now, our political class across the spectrum would be far worse than most of the old toffs, who left the Conservative party and politics with the advent of the Thatcherite and New Labour bottom-feeders. The royal family are generally a beacon of sanity and decency in our decadent, anarchic, chaotic society. Just a normal, quasi-dysfunctional family, like the rest of us, but principled.

[armodem08]

71. Actually, it's property damage.

You could call it property violence, but that just sounds contrived. Violence is directed at people. A clear distinction is necessary! It's still a crime, but let's not tar these workers without cause. They feel they have been wronged, and their response is their choice.

[ProudDad]

61. Too bad there's no working class consciousness here (n/t)

[guitar man]

70. It's not a good idea to screw with French workers

Maybe they ate being a tad extreme, maybe not, but they have gotten somebody's attention. Would that enough of our workers could muster at least a tenth of the courage these workers have...to stand up to the powers they be. Tis a bygone dream here now :(