French launch bid to rewrite history books with claim that Lindbergh was NOT first to fly across the

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Daily Mail

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 4:27 PM on 12th November 2010
New claims French pair died after landing plane in U.S.
Remains of white aircraft found off New York coast

Charles Lindbergh is renowned as the first person to fly across the Atlantic, but according to new research, he was beaten to the achievement ten days earlier.

According to French aviation enthusiast Bernard Decré, Lindbergh was only the first to complete the crossing and survive, with two French pilots believed to have reached the coast of Canada ten days before Lindbergh's Spirit of St Louis touched down in Paris in May 1927.

New documentary evidence found in the U.S. national archives may prove that Charles Nungesser and Francois Coli completed a transatlantic crossing and were the first men to do so, though they were likely killed in the process.

The fate of Nungesser and Coli has been called the 'Everest of aviation mysteries' with their disappearance sparking a raft of conspiracy theories, including speculation that their sea plane, L'Oiseau Blanc, was shot down by Maine bootleggers who feared police surveillance.

Read more: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1329178/French-launch-bid-rewrite-history-books-claim-Lindbergh-NOT-fly-Atlantic.html

[pattmarty]

1. Well, if you want to talk about "history" then they better start talking.....

...........about the fascist Lindbergh who supported Hitler, at least in the beginning. The "true" Lindbergh was actually a fucking shitbag. If we're going to rewrite history, at least get it right on the rewrite.

[davidwparker]

20. +1

[TheWatcher]

24. +1000

Of course, in this country, I am waiting for the day when our Books will be rewritten to reflect that the World is Flat, The Sky is Chartreuse, and the Center of The Earth is a creamy nougat center.

You laugh, but it's going to happen at some point.

[The Second Stone]

36. Lindbergh may have been a fascist

but he reported all the military details of his unparalleled access in Germany to the US government, effectively making him a very successful spy for the US. The Nazis greatly admired him and showed off a lot of stuff to him and he reported back in detail to us.

As for the flight deal, I always thought Lindbergh was was credited with "solo" flight, which is undisputed. And an unsuccessful landing is not a "successful" crossing of the ocean in the most important aspect.

[verges]

2. Lindburgh was the first to fly solo.

The USS Los Angeles, an airship made a transatlatic crossing in 1924.

[DavidDvorkin]

15. Solo and non-stop, I think.

[hedgehog]

18. Hard to stop in the middle and re-fuel, I would think!

[DavidDvorkin]

25. There are quite a few stopping points

depending on the route chosen. I believe there were a number of non-stop flights before Lindbergh.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. Indeed - the 1st crossing took 24 days, stopping in the Azores

http://hubpages.com/hub/U_S_Navy_NC_4_First_Plane_to_Cross_the_Atlantic_Ocean

as well as in Newfoundland as points between the 2 mainlands. Done a few weeks before Alcock and Brown did Newfoundland to Ireland non-stop - still between islands, but generally recognised as parts of each continent (geologically they are, as opposed to the Azores which are on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge).

[verges]

30. Stopping in the middle of

the Atlantic Ocean would've been bad. Very bad.

[Archae]

3. This is simply shitty reporting.

There were *MANY* transatlantic overflights, prior to Lindbergh.

Lindbergh was the first to do it ALONE.
As in flying solo.

[whyverne]

4. From Wikipedia

First non-stop transatlantic flight
June 14 - June 15, 1919. Capt. John Alcock and Lieut. Arthur Whitten Brown of the United Kingdom in Vickers Vimy bomber, between islands, 1,960 nautical miles (3,630 km), from St. John's, Newfoundland, to Clifden, Ireland, in 16 hours 12 minutes.

[dipsydoodle]

5. The subject here

is between mainland Europe and elsewhere.

[whyverne]

6. Oh, you mean what Lindberg didn't do. I see.

No I don't.

[whyverne]

7. Oh now I see, Lindy claims two records.

Solo and mainland to mainland. They're claiming one of them, mainland to mainland because these two French pilots weren't dead until they set the record. I can go with that.

[Kolesar]

9. You have to be swarmed by French maidens upon landing

And then it's cool.

[Ian David]

10. It's possible they asphyxiated or something halfway across the ocean before they crashed.

Do we really know they weren't dead until they hit the ground?

It's (slightly) possible their plane made it, but THEY didn't.

Since they were French, they were probably chain-smoking and drinking wine the whole time, so they could have caught fire or something, too.

[snooper2]

16. Yeah, but it doesn't count since they died...

That's like a Nacar race and on the last stretch a huge wreck causes the lead car to fly across the finish on fire (1st) but with a dead driver when the fire is finally put out.

Yeah, the dude made it across first but he's not going to be able to hold the trophy up. I think surving the ordeal should be one of the deciding factors in a case like this :P

[HuckleB]

17. How do you know they weren't dead?

And isn't landing safely part of the flight?

[jancantor]

29. well yes

flying is easy. landing is difficult

maybe they could get the record for the first corpses to do it

[dipsydoodle]

8. If there is something about the fact

that Ireland, which YOU posted , is NOT mainland Europe , that you cannot quite grasp then you are either mad or both.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. 'Elsewhere' being the ocean; they didn't reach the American mainland

They crashed in the sea. Therefore, this is not a significant record. Their flight was as successful as the maiden voyage of the Titanic.

[sofa king]

35. I concur.

The objective in question was the Orteig Prize, which offered $25000 for a nonstop flight between Paris and New York, with the assumption that the successful party would come to collect the reward. Obviously, Nungesser and Coli never showed up to collect it, which is why Lindbergh won.

It's not rewriting history to claim they might have got close, but it definitely didn't satisfy the requirements for winning the Prize, which is the definition which should be held up as the standard for the "first" crossing since that's what everyone at the time considered the goal.

Six people died and at least as many were injured trying to win the Orteig Prize. France also managed to lose one of its greatest surviving World War I flying aces, Nungesser, and nearly lost its greatest one, Rene Fonck, in the effort. What made Lindbergh an overnight hero on both sides of the ocean was that he, a total unknown, succeeded where the most famous and fearless aerial technicians, backed by legendary designers and absurd amounts of money, failed.

To further amplify the feat, Lindbergh did it alone and turned a profit doing it. It's true, his personal politics were revolting, but the kid had balls.

[KansDem]

11. We all know it was Jimmy Stewart!

[HuckleB]

13. +1

[bluedigger]

12. One guy with a theory and no evidence...

Kind of like me claiming I was the first man on the moon because I jumped two feet in the air in 1968...

[HuckleB]

14. Slow news day?

Sounds like Mr. Decré has successfully gotten his name in the news, despite the fact that none of his claims can be proven in terms of the French flight. It's all supposition, and that's what we've had since 1927.

What is really new here?

:shrug:

[AngryAmish]

19. shut up, shitheads

[struggle4progress]

21. "Documentary evidence .. of the remains of a white plane, possibly Nungesser and Coli's

L'Oiseau Blanc .. 200 miles off the New York coast"
Photo caption from link

[rug]

22. If they arrived DOA, it's hard to claim a successful transatlantic crossing.

[devilgrrl]

26. Charles Lindbergh: The most loathsome manufactured "hero" in US history.

Friggin' Fascist :puke:

[cstanleytech]

27. If they died near the tail end of the crossing then its hard to see how they can

qualify as being the first to do it.

[northzax]

31. seems to me that 'surviving' is kind of a key point

that being the idea and all. Were Mallory and Irvine the first to summit Everest? probably. but Hillary and Norgay get the credit, since they got back down to talk about it.

[nalnn]

32. First?

So....They didn't make it across?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

33. They crossed two bodies of water - the Atlantic and the Styx nt

[No Elephants]

34. Allez!