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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:26 PM
Original message
Mystery Radiation Detected 'Across Europe'
Source: ABC News

Mystery Radiation Detected 'Across Europe'



The hunt is on for the source of low level radiation detected in the atmosphere "across Europe" over the past several days, nuclear officials said today.

Trace amounts of iodine-131, a type of radiation created during the operation of nuclear reactors or in the detonation of a nuclear weapon, were detected by the Czech Republic's State Office for Nuclear Safety starting two weeks ago. After the group reported its findings to the International Atomic Energy Agency, the Agency released a statement today revealing similar detections had been made
"in other locations across Europe."

The IAEA said the current levels of iodine-131 are not high enough to warrant a public health risk, but the agency still does not know the origin of the apparent leak and an official with the agency would not say where exactly it has been detected outside the Czech Republic.

The IAEA said it does not believe the radiation was left over from the nuclear disaster at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi plant in March and the Czech Republic's State Office for Nuclear Safety could only say the source was "likely outside the territory of the Republic."



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/mystery-radiation-detected-across-europe-152226180.html
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. My money's on it being from Japan...
:shrug:
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secondwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Don't think I'll be crossing the Atlantic any time soon....
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The IAEA disagrees. nt
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. IAEA is a joke.
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marasinghe Donating Member (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. China? plenty of possibilities. n/t
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Prevailing winds don't blow that way
I would expect to see airborne radiation on the Pacific coast of North America long before it reached Europe...as we have already. By actually reading the article, I see that the IAEA doesn't think it's from Japan, but from 'outside the Czech Republic.' I tend to trust the opinion of people who have actually dedicated their career to the study of such things. I'm just funny that way.

Also, iodine-131 has a half-life of only eight days. If it'd made a round-the-world trip from Japan, it would likely be undetectable by the time it reached central Europe. More likely: it's from an unreported nuke-plant incident somewhere in the region.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. If the radiation was on the Pacific coast of the U.S., would there be a media report on it?
Edited on Fri Nov-11-11 07:54 PM by valerief
In this censored press age? I'm not sure there would. Therefore, Japanese radiation could be blowing across the U.S. to Europe and reports in the U.S. are being suppressed. Like most other real news in the U.S.

Of course, that all depends on the behavior of leaked radiation, of which I know nothing.
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Actually, it WAS reported. In March. By CNN, no less. Can't get more 'mainstream' than that
Edited on Fri Nov-11-11 08:13 PM by Cirque du So-What
Japan's nuclear contamination spreads to more U.S. states
By the CNN Wire Staff
March 29, 2011 5:46 a.m. EDT
Very small levels of radiation from Japan have been detected in at least 15 states -- it's not a health concern, according to EPA.
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

A growing number of U.S. states are affected, but none at levels that threaten public health
At least 15 states report detecting radioisotopes in air or water or both
"The levels detected are far below levels of public health concern," EPA says

(CNN) -- Minuscule levels of radiation from Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant incident have been detected in a widening number of U.S. states, but the Environmental Protection Agency reaffirmed this week that the levels represent no threat to public health.

"To date, data from EPA's real-time radiation air monitoring networks continue to show typical fluctuations in background radiation levels," Jonathan Edwards, director of the EPA's Radiation Protection Division, said in a statement Monday. "The levels we are seeing are far below any levels of concern."

At least 15 states reported detecting radioisotopes in air or water or both. No states have recommended that residents take potassium iodide, a salt that protects the thyroid gland from radioactive iodine.

Progress Energy reported over the weekend that iodine-131 was detected in the air near its nuclear power plants near Hartsville, South Carolina, and Crystal River, Florida.

more...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/03/28/radiation.us/index.html

Once again...iodine-131 has a half-life of only eight days. If levels detected in North Ameria are miniscule, they would be practically undetectable by the time any particles proceeded on their world tour to central Europe. What they're seeing in the Czech Republic is NOT from Japan. It's just unpossible. No amount of magical thinking and gut feelings will make it otherwise, nor will it change the nature of iodine-131 on a quantum level to make it suddenly 'rejuvenate' after traveling over halfway around the world to suddenly become more radioactive after already decaying through several half-lives.

As for a 'media blackout' of a nuclear incident...do you really think that the corporate media would sit on a story that could endanger the 1% along with the 99%? I believe the corporate media go to extraordinary lengths to suppress some stories, but nuclear contamination is no respecter of persons. It'll kill ya - no matter how much money ya got!
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I remember that! I also recall reading the Japanese reactors are still leaking.
Edited on Fri Nov-11-11 08:37 PM by valerief
That appears to be ignored in/unimportant to the press. But you've pointed out the half-life of iodine-131, so it looks like the press isn't lying this time. Thanks! :hi:
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. Exactly
.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
Iodine-131 (131I)

Also called radioiodine (though many other radioactive isotopes of this element are known), is an important radioisotope of iodine. It has a radioactive decay half-life of about eight days. Its uses are mostly medical and pharmaceutical. It also plays a major role as a radioactive isotope present in nuclear fission products, and was a significant contributor to the health hazards from open-air atomic bomb testing in the 1950s, and from the Chernobyl disaster, as well as being a large fraction of the contamination hazard in the first weeks in the Japanese nuclear crisis. This is because I-131 is a major uranium, plutonium fission product, comprising nearly 3% of the total products of fission (by weight). See fission product yield for a comparison with other radioactive fission products. I-131 is also a major fission product of uranium-233, produced from thorium.

Due to its mode of beta decay, iodine-131 is notable for causing mutation and death in cells that it penetrates, and other cells up to several millimeters away. For this reason, high doses of the isotope are sometimes less dangerous than low doses, since they tend to kill thyroid tissues that would otherwise become cancerous as a result of the radiation. For example, children treated with moderate dose of I-131 for thyroid adenomas had a detectable increase in thyroid cancer, but children treated with a much higher dose did not. Likewise, most studies of very-high-dose I-131 for treatment of Graves disease have failed to find any increase in thyroid cancer, even though there is linear increase in thyroid cancer risk with I-131 absorption at moderate doses.<1> Thus, iodine-131 is increasingly less employed in small doses in medical use (especially in children), but increasingly is used only in large and maximal treatment doses, as a way of killing targeted tissues. This is known as "therapeutic use."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine-131">MORE
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Maybe Iran slipped in that secret nuclear test?
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Don't think so
Answer to Question #5367 Submitted to "Ask the Experts"

Category: Nuclear or Radioactive Devices Nuclear Weapons

The following question was answered by an expert in the appropriate field:
Q

What are the major radionuclides of concern immediately after a weapons accident and a nuclear power plant accident?
A

Both nuclear power plants and nuclear weapons of the fission type produce most of their radioactivity in the form of fission products, the smaller fragments produced when the nuclear fuel, either uranium or plutonium, splits in two parts after absorbing a neutron. In both cases approximately 200 different fission products, many of which are radioactive, are produced; however, the relative distributions of the various radioactive species are typically different because of the differences in time over which they are produced.

In a nuclear reactor, the fission products build up in the fuel over time as the reactor operates; shorter-lived radionuclides, such as 131I with a half-life of about eight days, build up quickly and reach equilibrium values in the reactor core within relatively short times, whereas longer-lived nuclides, such as 90Sr, with a half-life of about 30 years, require much longer time periods to approach their maximum activities.

In a nuclear explosion, typified by a bomb, the major burden of fission products is produced essentially immediately within the very short duration of the nuclear event. When a nuclear explosion occurs in the air atmosphere, the entire inventory of fission products that is produced is, in theory, available to produce external radiation dose from the radiations, especially the gamma radiation, and potential internal dose, following inhalation and ingestion of the material. Naturally, many of the fission products become quickly unavailable because of their very short half-lives; such nuclides disappear by radioactive decay. There are many species that may be significant contributors to external dose from gamma radiation and sometimes beta radiation; these include radioactive isotopes of noble gases, such as radioactive isotopes of krypton and xenon, radioactive isotopes of halogen elements, especially iodine, and radioactive isotopes of barium, lanthanum, cerium, zirconium, niobium, cesium, and many others.

In the case of an accident at a nuclear power plant, a nuclear-bomb-type event is not possible, and the kinds of accidents that might occur are generally incapable of dispersing the entire contents of the core, which contains the radioactivity, into the general environment. Usually, the most volatile radionuclides are the ones most likely to be released when the barriers against dispersal are compromised.

more...


http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q5367.html

If Iran had tested a nuclear weapon, more than miniscule traces of a single product - iodine-131 in this case - would be detected. It's worth noting that the IAEA didn't even suggest such a thing.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. Two weeks, and this is the first we hear of it?
The IAEA has been sitting on this for two weeks?
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I don't see 'two weeks' anywhere in that news blurb
It says 'detected over the past several days,' but not two weeks. Anyway, the levels are so low that they constitute no public health threat. As I opined in another post in this thread, nobody - not the corporate media and not the IAEA - is going to sit on a story that endangers the public health. After all, there are 1%ers out there too, and they're not going to let anything bad happen to them.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. That's why I pointed it out - I didn't want anyone to miss it - and it may have been detected sooner
The article says:
detected by the Czech Republic's State Office for Nuclear Safety starting two weeks ago. After the group reported its findings to the International Atomic Energy Agency, the Agency released a statement today revealing similar detections had been made "in other locations across Europe."

This article doesn't say if other stations in Europe detected it earlier than the Czech stations,
it just says that after the Czech's reported it, the IAEA released a statement.

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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. OOPS! My bad
Still, the very low levels didn't endanger anyone. Likely that the IAEA was compiling data - an onerous task - before making a press release that could create panic. Even now, it'll be subject to wild speculation until the source is located - and located it will be. There are a finite number of sources, and even if it is determined through the process of elimination, it will be found.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Ukraine detected it between October 10-20, Poland on Oct 17, they think its from Pakistan
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hpy3bIs158xIF3jQV6Z0EvCXxghg?docId=CNG.af9bf1282db3c9d34412aa1ada59f782.231

<snip>

In Poland, which has no nuclear power plants, a spokesman for the atomic energy agency told AFP: "We detected trace levels of radioactive iodine-131 over Poland during measurements taken October 17-24. It was a very low level.

"Readings were 100 times higher in late March in the wake of Japan's Fukushima nuclear accident," spokesman Stanislaw Latek said, adding that Ukraine had also detected "trace levels" between October 10-20.

He also said: "Unconfirmed reports suggest there may have been an incident at a nuclear power station in Pakistan but this requires further confirmation."

An IAEA spokesman said he had no information about any such incident, however.

On October 19, Pakistani authorities reported an emergency at the almost 40-year-old Karachi nuclear plant (KANUPP) when workers were forced to repair a leak.

<snip>


Ukraine detected it Oct 10-20,
Poland detected it Oct 17,
Pakistan reported an emergency on Oct 19,
but the IAEA had no information about any such incident?

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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thanks
:hi:

Could the failure on the part of the IAEA to garner intelligence in that region have anything to do with Deadeye Dick Cheney's revelation of Valerie Plame's identity? Brewster Jennings, where she worked, had agents in the field gathering information on All Things Nuclear in that part of the world. Cheney effectively blinded us in one eye when he blew her cover.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. self-delete - wrong thread. nt
Edited on Fri Nov-11-11 08:38 PM by bananas
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. Sounds like a super secret core leak from somewhere besides Japan.
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TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. Not likely from Japan radioactive iodine is long gone from that accident.
131I decays with a half-life of 8.02.
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caraher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. The Poles say the levels are 1/100 of what they saw last March
Very strange. I hope they figure out where it's coming from. Doesn't sound like Fukushima because many nearby countries aren't seeing elevated I-131.

http://news.yahoo.com/radioactivity-europe-no-public-risk-iaea-162921520.html">another report on this
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. Possible suspect, Czech Telemin nukes, usually down for part of each year, recent leak
of radioactive water, slated to be replaced with new nukes in the distant future with bidding going on right now so the Czech utility company would not want to give anyone ideas about shutting it down altogether.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=116x14495

http://www.sustainer.org/dhm_archive/index.php?display_article=vn535temelined
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. Poland's National Atomic Energy Agency: "unconfirmed reports" of incident in Pakistan
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hpy3bIs158xIF3jQV6Z0EvCXxghg?docId=CNG.af9bf1282db3c9d34412aa1ada59f782.231

<snip>

According to a spokesman from Poland's National Atomic Energy Agency there were also "unconfirmed reports" about a possible incident at a nuclear power station in Pakistan.

<snip>

Via http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=3611267

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. ding ding ding
yup
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Impossible. Prevailing winds blow from West to East.
Not from Pakistan to Central Europe. That's how many thousands of miles?
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. The fallout from Chernobyl ended up in Scandinavia and Scotland.
There's something about upper atmosphere wind flows you and I don't know about, i guess.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. It's funny to me that talk of 'prevailing winds' holds currency here only some times.
If talk is of Fukushima's fallout, "oh no, can't be, look at prevailing winds." Meanwhile, if it is fallout from Pakistan, "Oh yes, that has to be it, we don't know everything about prevailing winds."

Not a complaint about you personally, just a remark why it's difficult to take what people say here seriously. Because "Truth" is a relative concept on DU.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Very true.
PB
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. The alternative, then, would be a nuclear accident in Western Europe
And I think we might have heard something about that by now.
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