Interrogation abuses were 'approved at highest levels' THIS DOES IT!

[LittleApple81]

By Julian Coman in Washington
(Filed: 13/06/2004)

New evidence that the physical abuse of detainees in Iraq and at Guantanamo Bay was authorised at the top of the Bush administration will emerge in Washington this week, adding further to pressure on the White House.

The Telegraph understands that four confidential Red Cross documents implicating senior Pentagon civilians in the Abu Ghraib scandal have been passed to an American television network, which is preparing to make them public shortly.

According to lawyers familiar with the Red Cross reports, they will contradict previous testimony by senior Pentagon officials who have claimed that the abuse in the Abu Ghraib prison was an isolated incident.

"There are some extremely damaging documents around, which link senior figures to the abuses," said Scott Horton, the former chairman of the New York Bar Association, who has been advising Pentagon lawyers unhappy at the administration's approach. "The biggest bombs in this case have yet to be dropped."

A string of leaked government memos over the past few days has revealed that President George W Bush was advised by Justice Department officials and the White House lawyer, Alberto Gonzalez, that Geneva Conventions on torture did not apply to "unlawful combatants", captured during the war on terror.

Members of Congress are now demanding access to all White House memos on interrogation techniques, a request so far refused by the United States attorney-general, John Ashcroft.

much more at link (worth a read!)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/06/13/wguan13.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/06/13/ixworld.html

[Kool Kitty]

1. This is huge.

I'll bet this is going to be on "60 Minutes" or "60 Minutes II" this week, with no Reagan tributes to provide a distraction.

[LittleApple81]

2. I totally agree with you. Let's see, whom might they kill to have

another funeral?
Do you think that is why Bush* has been manic lately? Or have they kept him in the dark about how close things are getting to him? Since he doesn't read, that would be easy.

[shraby]

5. The media has been busy

in the background I see...bout time, too. Popcorn time!

[progressivebydesign]

66. Unfortunately NOT the American media!! As usual! N/T

[Kool Kitty]

6. Bush certainly was strange at the G-8 press

whatever-that-was. He completely sidestepped the question, and the answer he did give was a lie. There have been memos leaked that show they were looking for a legal out to cover the treatment of the detainees. He said that he had told all to follow the US laws, and the memos seem to say that the US laws don't apply overseas. (I'm paraphrasing, I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.) I really don't believe for a second that he doesn't know what is going on. I think some of the memos allude to W knowing what was happening. He is a devious sneak and a lousy liar, which explains his manic performances of late. He KNOWS that we KNOW that he KNOWS, and I think he and his lackeys are worried. They should be.

[LittleApple81]

16. Amazingly, you made a lot more sense than he did. n/t

[UpInArms]

52. a little bit of searching

turned up some interesting articles from early 2002

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/0/690C5D7C862F056B87256B4E006E5B6E?OpenDocument

Powell urges POW status

A four-page internal White House memorandum obtained yesterday by The Washington Times shows that Mr. Powell made the request and that the president's National Security Council plans to meet on the matter Monday morning.

"The secretary of state has requested that you reconsider that decision," White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales wrote yesterday in a memo to Mr. Bush. "Specifically, he has asked that you conclude that GPW does apply to both al Qaeda and the Taliban. I understand, however, that he would agree that al Qaeda and Taliban fighters could be determined not to be prisoners of war (POWs) but only on a case-by-case basis following individual hearings before a military board."

The memo provides a rare glimpse of a major dispute inside the Bush White House on what has become one of the most contentious issues in the war in Afghanistan. Mr. Powell wants the president to reverse his position. But Mr. Gonzales and most, if not all, members of the president's national security team are urging him not to retreat, according to the memo.

Mr. Bush decided Jan. 18 (2002) that hundreds of Taliban and members of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda army are detainees, not prisoners of war, and thus not subject to rights in the Geneva Convention. Human rights groups and some European politicians have protested the decision and have been especially critical of the living conditions for 158 detainees at the U.S. Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Administration sources last night expressed anger at Mr. Powell, whom they accused of bowing to pressure from
the political left. They said that if Mr. Bush heeds his secretary of state's advice, the U.S. will have to provide detained terrorists with all sorts of amenities, including exercise rooms and canteens.


The four-page Gonzales memo to Mr. Bush comes with a signed cover sheet from Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security adviser. The cover page asks Vice President Richard Cheney; Mr. Powell; Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld; Attorney General John Ashcroft; CIA Director George Tenet; and Gen. Richard Myers, Joint Chiefs Chairman, to read Mr. Gonzales' memo and have responses to her by today at 11 a.m.

...more...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4337010,00.html

We will not tolerate the abuse of war prisoners

Guantanamo could be where America and Europe part company

Hugo Young
Guardian

Thursday January 17, 2002

One value that's meant to bind Anglos and Americans is their attitude to justice. The common law runs through England and America, and we believe the principles underlying it are shared. That's partly what the world war against terrorism is supposed to be about. Yet some of these values turn out not to be shared at all. It's a salutary, ominous phenomenon. Just as significant as America's treatment of Taliban and al-Qaida prisoners held at its Guantanamo base in Cuba is the gulf this is opening up between two cultures that imagine they have everything important in common.

For Washington, Camp X-Ray is plainly an extension of the war. The captives are not allowed to be called prisoners of war, but are held under rules of war defined by the side that's continuing to fight and maybe win it. They're kept off US territory, and outside the reach of the Geneva Conventions, so they can be treated the way American generals and politicians rather than American lawyers want to treat them: which is to say, without fundamental rights or international protection.

Until the Red Cross get into the camp, it's not possible to be sure what goes on there. And shackling potentially suicidal killers to their plane seats doesn't seem an outrageous form of maltreatment in the circumstances. But the US authorities haven't denied many details: the shaving of the beards, the open-air cages, the selective hooding, the less than persuasive evidence that the captives are being held as individuals with specific charges against them. When the US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, said he had "not the slightest interest" in the camp's conditions, he signalled simultaneously contempt for the prisoners and bilious disdain for any critics who might dare to speak.

...more...

and this blog refers to a Time.com article (only available now through subscription but the blog link will definitely fill the need to read)

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/0/AC28A2D57F6CEB8087256B4E00721C82?OpenDocument

Monday, Jan. 28, 2002

It's not going to be a country club," said Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld last week, describing the new military detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and nobody ever expected it would be. The 110 al-Qaeda and Taliban prisoners admitted to "Gitmo" by the end of last week are, said Rumsfeld, "the hardest of the hard core," men who had killed "dozens and dozens of people." But though it may lack tennis courts and a putting green, the amenities are better than you'd find in a cave at Tora Bora. True, prisoners are now confined to 6-ft. by 8-ft. chain-link enclosures with concrete floors and tin roofs (Rumsfeld thinks it's "pejorative" to call them cages). But relief will come; in three months, the Pentagon hopes to replace the facility with something more permanent.

<snip>

At the heart of the matter is a question of legality. The Pentagon has resisted calling the detainees prisoners of war, preferring the terms unlawful combatants or battlefield detainees. It's easy to see why. Under the Geneva Convention, those holding true POWs are bound to release them at the end of hostilities; but that is the last thing the U.S. wants to do with men who may be al-Qaeda operatives. Moreover, by convention (though the law seems to be murky here) POWs don't need to tell their captors anything other than their name, rank, serial number and birthday. But for Washington, the whole point of the detention is to conduct interrogations and thus head off new acts of terrorism.

<snip>

Are they POWs? Washington says no, because the Taliban had no clear chain of command and was not a legitimate government. That may be so; unfortunately, as Amnesty International has pointed out, under the Geneva Convention the Pentagon has no business making such a determination. Those who fall into the enemy's hands are entitled to POW status until a "competent tribunal" has determined their status. In the case of those in Cuba, that hasn't happened.

More curious still is the matter of the prisoners' ultimate fate. Rumsfeld has laid out four options: a military trial, a trial in U.S. criminal courts, return to their home countries for prosecution, or continued detention "while additional intelligence is gathered." The last seems a distinct possibility; the Pentagon plans to build 2,000 cells at Camp X-Ray. "This will be a big deal down there for at least two years, guaranteed," says Army Lieut. General B.B. Bell, who commands Fort Hood, Texas, the base from which military police have been deployed to Cuba.

<snip>

Leaving the prisoners "indefinitely beyond the reach of any legal regime," said the Economist last week, "would put America--pre-eminently a nation of laws--itself outside the law."

...more...

(edited to add first link showing a memo from January 18 2002!)

[Trajan]

72. GREAT Find UIA ...

I wonder: Could the responses received by Condi, which she requested from numerous cabinet officials, be subpoened ? ...

Could this lead to MASS impeachment within the WH ? ...

I have never thought it possible before: but THIS is huge ..

[UpInArms]

75. I would hope that all of those "memos" would be

available to the Senate Judiciary Committee - it does appear that very early on in the "war on terra" there was a concerted effort on the part of this mal-admin to justify its desires.

Remember that the neo-cons do believe that the end justifies the means.

[Tight_rope]

91. "MASS IMPEACHMENT"! Sounds like great to me!

Start with Dubya and work our way down. Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Condi, Wolf, and so on. Sorry to include you too Powell, but you are playing for the wrong team. Better luck next time.

[crossroads]

96. Great research...

:thumbsup:

[Eloriel]

57. In their minds, what Bush said isn't a lie -- it's carrying legalistic

parsing to a whole new level, tho.

They, via these memoranda, have redefined "torture" so that what they authorized to be done during interrogations don't fit THEIR definitions. So, if that's the case, then when Bush said that what he authorized was following U.S. and international law, it merely means that he said to follow the laws according to how they interpreted them.

I think this is really important to understand. They are MANIPULATING the laws (or trying to), just as Hitler did, and in the process also trying to accrue even more power to the Executive -- unimaginable power in a so-called democracy. As one blogger put it (paraphrased), the memo virtually made Bush king. I don't think that was overstated.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

65. Didn't he bust out the "I don't recall?" Always a major warning sign...

[progressivebydesign]

68. He kept saying..

(and I closely paraphrase), 'They were told to follow the law'.

Now.. we see what the law was! And.. according to family pal and WH lawyer, it means NO Geneva protections, because BUSH is now claiming Iraq is part of the War on Terror. Which is total BULLSHIT. Iraq would come in around a 1 on a terror scale of 1 to 10, Libya and Saudia Arabia and Pakistan being near the top (but they're pals of ours, right?)

[Tight_rope]

89. "He KNOWS that we KNOW that he KNOWS," Yes! How true this is!

But does he give a damn. "NO"! But who cares what he thinks! I'm concerned with what people should think. I'm so disappointed at the American people. Why aren't more people crying out for "IMPEACHMENT"! I have a list of reasons he should be impeached that stretches from Houston to DC.

[Samantha]

92. Those words remind me of Rumsfeld's press conference some time ago

(Paraphrasing) We know that there are things we do not know. What we don't know is what it is we don't know....

In that vein, Bush* hopes we don't know what he knows. He PRAYS we don't know. What we know is that he in fact knew, and we want him to know we know he knew. True? I think so.

[Pachamama]

7. Poppy parachuting tommorrow AM...and the chute doesn't open..n/t

[LittleApple81]

12. Bingo!!!!! and Britt Hume (according to a DUer) is going with him! n/t

[nolabels]

47. The scary part going solo (minus a chute)

The Falling Man

By Tom Junod

Photograph by Richard Drew
Do you remember this photograph? In the United States, people have taken pains to banish it from the record of September 11, 2001. The story behind it, though, and the search for the man pictured in it, are our most intimate connection to the horror of that day.

In the picture, he departs from this earth like an arrow. Although he has not chosen his fate, he appears to have, in his last instants of life, embraced it. If he were not falling, he might very well be flying. He appears relaxed, hurtling through the air. He appears comfortable in the grip of unimaginable motion. He does not appear intimidated by gravity's divine suction or by what awaits him. His arms are by his side, only slightly outriggered. His left leg is bent at the knee, almost casually. His white shirt, or jacket, or frock, is billowing free of his black pants. His black high-tops are still on his feet. In all the other pictures, the people who did what he did—who jumped—appear to be struggling against horrific discrepancies of scale. They are made puny by the backdrop of the towers, which loom like colossi, and then by the event itself. Some of them are shirtless; their shoes fly off as they flail and fall; they look confused, as though trying to swim down the side of a mountain. The man in the picture, by contrast, is perfectly vertical, and so is in accord with the lines of the buildings behind him. He splits them, bisects them: Everything to the left of him in the picture is the North Tower; everything to the right, the South. Though oblivious to the geometric balance he has achieved, he is the essential element in the creation of a new flag, a banner composed entirely of steel bars shining in the sun. Some people who look at the picture see stoicism, willpower, a portrait of resignation; others see something else—something discordant and therefore terrible: freedom. There is something almost rebellious in the man's posture, as though once faced with the inevitability of death, he decided to get on with it; as though he were a missile, a spear, bent on attaining his own end. He is, fifteen seconds past 9:41 a.m. EST, the moment the picture is taken, in the clutches of pure physics, accelerating at a rate of thirty-two feet per second squared. He will soon be traveling at upwards of 150 miles per hour, and he is upside down. In the picture, he is frozen; in his life outside the frame, he drops and keeps dropping until he disappears
(snip)
http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/2003/030903_mfe_falling_1.html

Putting the 9/11 stuff for just few seconds here, I am still wondering how this submarine found Poppy alone out in the ocean after he bailed the plane in which no other crew members survived. Talk about finding a needle in haystack (amazing luck or something else? :scared:)

[Judi Lynn]

14. Ha! We'll remember you said it first. They throw him under a bus

if the chute fails to fail.

[LittleApple81]

17. LOL!!!!

[ElectroPrincess]

51. Hey, that's woosy ... how 'bout HALO

I submit that the past two old bloated white men who tout parachute jumps are SISSY! <shriek> I wouldn't mind be labeled "sissy" but to an old power hungry white man, he'd be appalled at this description.

Hey, as I recall a sweet, 80 y.o. Grandmother did the same (tandem jump, moderate altitude) so that also makes Bob (Novak) and George (HW Bush) ultimate WOOSIES to do what my Grandma could stomach :P.

How 'bout these bellowing windbags jump HALO (High Altitude Low Oxygen)? Then, unlike with my dear brave Grandmother, I'd be genuinely impressed with these posturing old coots. <snicker>

On Edit: I bet money if HW Bush Jumps solo, it will be with a static line (parachute opens automatically). However, seriously I must begrudgingly admit = if he jumps solo, he ain't *all* windbag.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

55. Is Shrubby packing Poppy's chute?

LOL :tinfoilhat:

[ashling]

80. another funeral, hmmmmm

hey, maybe they could push an 80 year old man out of an airplane


When the Repugs called for "equal time" after the Wellstone Memorial, a retired school teacher who was vaolunteering with the campaign I was on told me that that would be fine with her, but first they would need to supply a body

well, I guess they finally got their wish with Ronnie

[Tight_rope]

88. The noose is getting tighter around Dubya's neck.

Let's draw the rope a little tighter. Give him absolutely no mercy.:nuke:

[Mojambo]

3. It's getting bigger

Much bigger.

I have a feeling that the true heat behind this will be the conflicting testimony given to Congress. That is why cracking Ashcroft will be very important. He's not giving up those memos for a big reason.

[LittleApple81]

4. You could SEE it on his face... smell the panic sweat emanating

from him. And that young DOJ employee behind him during the hearings was really, really scared. His brow was so wrinkled, and his eyes were glassy.

[Pachamama]

8. Asscroft and the DOJ kid both had the "Deer in headlight" look....

...Mofos....arrogant, sick, lieing mofos...

Your going down Asscroft...you, Rummy and the rest of the scum in your rotting pond....

:grr:

[grasswire]

18. just watching that aide's eyes....

...was quite amusing. His brow furrowed, his eyes began to dart wildly back and forth. I'll bet his pulse was racing.

[Pachamama]

21. My favorite expression though was Sen. Biden's teeth clenching responses

to Asscroft regarding the reason we signed the Geneva Convention...Priceless...

[Tellurian]

36. I saw Biden talking through his teeth too..

mentioning his son was serving in Iraq. Biden has got to know he was playing with fire when he chose silence over protesting the War as Kennedy did. I've heard Biden pontificate on Bush's behalf before on tv and trivialize the problems we're now facing. If anyone is having sleepless nights, I think it's him. He now realizes he's put his son in harm's way and theres not a thing he can do about it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. Agree...he's seen the light.

[Lex]

87. Biden was soooo pissed when he did that.

I've never seen any elected official so pissed that they had to talk through their teeth with their jaw clenched shut like that.

My Dad used to do that if he was so pissed with us kids that he thought he might totally lose it (not that he was ever violent with us--he wasn't).

But still, I totally get the talking-through-the-teeth anger.

I thought Biden was going to jump over the table and go for Ashcroft's jugular. Literally.

[Fovea]

93. His expression was feral

If it had been the full moon, he'd have been on Ashcroft in a shot.

A line from 'Lion in Winter' says it best-- "When I was young, I saw a group of soldiers truss their dinner pig, alive and squeeling on a spit. That's the sound I am going to hear you make."

[thecrow]

27. I think he was one of the lawyers,,,

because Ashcroft kept having "sidebars' with him and another guy.
If he was my lawyer, I'd fire him because he has a "face of glass", not the usual lawyer "poker face".

[janx]

81. I saw that kid!

He wouldn't make a very good poker player.

[AndyTiedye]

31. You Mean That Lawyer Who Was Turning Green

While Asscroft was getting more and more red in the face?
I captured all that on my mythtv.

[msanthrope]

59. "You could SEE it on his face... smell the panic sweat emanating"---

LOL--It smelled like Crisco.

[Lorien]

63. I've never seen a man Ashcroft's age THAT

panicked! I swear, he looked like a kid who was being confronted by both his parents for failing school, beating up his little sister and breaking all the family heirlooms at the same time! He's covering something that could bring down the entire administration, and he knows it!

By the way, if you haven't seen this performance, check if Bill Moyer's "NOW" is playing in your area today or tonight.

[The Zanti Regent]

44. Not if the Screw York Times and Whoreshington Post silence it.

Both of those Republican Party Organs are doing everything they can to silence this.

[Octafish]

97. Ah'm George Bush and I approved this torture.

"He'p hide me Alberto! I feel a war crimes trial a'comin'!"

[Tight_rope]

101. What a tongue lashing! n/t

[truthisfreedom]

9. it's nice they prepared this little surprise for themselves. bushco has

been tripping over itself this year booby-trapping bush's campaign. that weasel will NEVER be elected. the unelected fraud.

[mockmonkey]

10. and yet mr. and mrs. murika will say

"yeah but, what about those 4 Americans hung from the bridge."

[Pachamama]

13. ...and the boy from PA who lost his head....

Welcome to the DU...always glad to have Newbie's join in with us Freethinkers...

:hi:

[LittleApple81]

15. I think it will come out that these 4 were not "truck drivers" but killers

Not that it is EVER justified to do what the mob did to the corpses, but me thinks those guys had gotten involved in something rotten.

[Pachamama]

19. I thought that all along...maybe they recognized those mercs driving thru

...town as being the ones who raped and tortured their fathers, sons, brothers, sisters etc. Guess lots of Americans didn't think of that, did they? Your right that it doesn't justify what happened, but it certainly explains a lot...I mean, what if a family member and neighbors of yours had been tortured as we have seen so far in the photos released (and worse) and you saw these people driving through town? Hmmm...I think I'd feel some rage too...

[oneighty]

61. Americans and others rejoiced

at photos of Benito Mussolini (El Duce) and Misses hanging dead and undignified upside down from a street light. Death is never pretty and the good or bad of it is in the eye of the beholder.

180

[Pachamama]

11. So we finally return to the "Real News"....stay tuned folks...its going to

...get ugly...I guess we will have a "June/July" Surprise soon as Asscroft so kindly warned us about....

[Disturbed]

20. NO sweeping this under their rug.

BushCo, the Military and Congress were trying real hard to make this fade. "A few bad apples". It's a over now and we got those "bad apples". Move along. Someone or some group is leaking the memos, so the War Crimes cannot be wept away.

It's high time for a Special Prosecutor and stop allowing the Military to investigate itself and hold onto to the rest of the phots and the evidence of doucuments. This is the beginning of the end for BushCo. I believe that the rank and file of the CIA and the Plutocracy have decided enough for this pack of bungler, sociapaths.

[Edmond Dantes]

60. The Common Plan (i.e., Conspiracy) to Violate Geneva Conventions

Paper by law prof:

If one focuses on the January 25, 2002 Memorandum for the President by White House Counsel Alberto R. Gonzales and President Bush's subsequent decisions and authorizations, there is evidence of the initiation of a Common Plan to violate the 1949 Geneva Conventions.

Behind the Plan was a memorandum addressing possible war crime responsibility and designs for attempted avoidance of international criminal responsibility that was written by then DOJ OLC attorneys John Yoo and Robert Delahunty entitled "Application of Treaties
and Laws to Al Qaeda and Taliban Detainees" written on January 9, 2002 and "endorsed by top lawyers in the White House, the Pentagon and the vice president’s office," according to the New York Times (Neil A. Lewis, "Justice Memos Explained How to Skip Prisoner
Rights," NYT, May 21, 2004, at A10).

According to the Gonzales memo, the Common Plan involved at least those responsible for "the Department of Justice... formal legal opinion concluding... the Geneva Convention III on the Treatment of Prisoners of War (GPW)...that there are reasonable grounds for you to conclude that GPW does not apply with respect to the conflict with the Taliban. I understand that you decided that GPW does not apply...," adding: "OLC has further opined that you have the authority to determine that GPW does not apply to the Taliban... OLC’s interpretation of this legal issue is definitive." According to the Yoo - Delahunty memo, when asked by General Counsel William Haynes about "the effect of international treaties... on the treatment of individuals detained by the U.S. Armed Forces during the conflict in Afghanistan... n particular, ...whether the laws of armed conflict apply to the conditions of detention and the procedures for trial... <, w>e conclude that these treaties do not protect members of the al Qaeda organization... do not apply to the Taliban..."

more.....

http://pegc.no-ip.info/_LAW_/paust_the_plan.pdf

[Tight_rope]

94. I wonder what they are offering in return to not let it get out!

Can't offer first born (they are useless), can't offer grandchildren, and money is a slap in the face.

I wonder...what would you offer if you were pResident.

I say we do it Mafia style. Take the whole family out, parents, children, uncles, aunts, nieces and nephews. Get rid of them all. Don't want any blood coming back for revenge.

[floda]

22. where can i see that Ashcroft video?

Any link ?

[LittleApple81]

23. They have had excerpts but the whole thing is on C-Span:

http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Current_Event&Code=108_Cong&ShowVidNum=6&Rot_Cat_CD=108_Cong&Rot_HT=&Rot_WD=&ShowVidDays=15&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30#

In the box at the top, if you click on the --> you'll see Ashcroft's mug. (In case the link above does not work, it is under the 108th Congress selection).
Enjoy.

[floda]

26. Thanks LittleApple81 !

:yourock:

[Disturbed]

24. Does anyone know this?

I am a bit confused about the DOJ 42 to 50 page memo about Torure. Here's my confusion: If that memo came from DOJ would not Asscrack have to had approved what it stated? If so, then isn't he approving torture? If that is the case then didn't he lie under oath when he said that he did not approve of torture?

Also, even though that memo showed up on the Net the same day that he refused to allow members of Congress to have it, even in a private seesion, that Sen. Feinstein asked for, shouildn't he be chartged with Contempt of Congress?

[LittleApple81]

25. Right on all counts. The published memo was a draft. The Senators

wanted the finished version, plus ANYTHING ELSE that had transpired and/or approved by Bush.
HE IS IN CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS. However, the chair of the committee has to declare him in contempt. And Hatch did not seem too prone to do that (he said something like "Mr.Ashcroft, the committee sometimes becomes political.." like apologizing for those nasty, nasty democrats.)

[Algomas]

28. I remember that boot licking carpet bagger from Utah

at the Iran-Contra hearings. He is an evil little shit and I hope this scandal takes him out too.

[Edmond Dantes]

70. I think I do.

The answer is "not necessarily."

If I remember correctly, the AG has a statutory duty to provide legal advice to the President. That function is carried out by the Office of Legal Counsel. Sometimes the OLC legal opinions are issued under the signature of an OLC deputy assistant attorney general (as is the case with JOHN YOO, who held himself out as an expert in the substantive legal area). Many times, the OLC opinions are signed by the OLC assistant attorney general, who is the head of the office.

If the legal opinion is REALLY REALLY important, OLC will write it for the AG, but it is issued as an Attorney General Opinion (not an OLC opinion) under the signature of the AG. (There are several volumes of published "Opinions of the Attorney General.")

That Ashcroft himself testified (instead of the Asst. AG for OLC) does make me wonder whether there is yet another confidential legal opinion lurking somewhere -- one signed by Ashcroft himself. However, the political appointees in OLC who wrote those controversial memoranda have since left DOJ. That may be why Ashcroft testified (at the specific request of the Senate Judiciary Committee). After all, Ashcroft does head the Department and is ultimately responsible for what transpires within its corridors.

It is my understanding that Ashcroft has little to do with DOJ's day-to-day operations. That is handled primarily by the Deputy AG. I believe that the current DAG did not arrive until AFTER the OLC opinion(s) had been issued. Therefore, one can't really expect the current DAG to step up to the plate and take responsibility for this.

That leaves the unknowledgeable Ashcroft to face the Senate Committee -- and he would rather be singing about eagles or holding morning prayer services in his office.

I hope this is helpful.

[Pachamama]

74. The memos that Asscroft is refusing to turn over are different from this 1

The memo your thinking of on the Net is not the Dept of Justice memo to the White House & President, its a Dept of Defense memo that summarizes aspects as it relates to the issue of torture and most likely the missing attachements/exhibits were the DOJ memos or memos from White House...

[Rebel_with_a_cause]

29. Powell was stupid to reinforce the idea of "a few bad apples"

What a dope.

[Disturbed]

30. Powell is a disgrace and a bootlicker.

He has been that for years. His PR machine is good that's all. He is part of this foul bunch whether he agrees with all their madness or not. He could have been honorable and quit before he presented what he damn well knew were lies to the UN. Maybe a lot of ignorant Americans don't know what sellout this man is but many do. Now he goes back and forth with his comments. Harry Belefonte was 100% correct about Powell!

BushCo has approved Torture and War Crimes. It may get to a point where Congress is forced to do it's sworn oath.

[LittleApple81]

38. This is what Harry was reported to say in Oct. 2002:

Singer Harry Belafonte took to the AM radiowaves on Tuesday morning to slam Secretary of State Colin Powell as a sellout to the black race!
Belafonte, appearing on San Diego's 760 KFMB, told host Ted Leitner that Powell was like a plantation slave who moves into the slave owner's house and only says what his master wants him to say.

"There's an old saying," Belafonte began. "In the days of slavery, there were those slaves who lived on the plantation and were those slaves that lived in the house. You got the privilege of living in the house if you served the master... exactly the way the master intended to have you serve him.

"Colin Powell's committed to come into the house of the master. When Colin Powell dares to suggest something other than what the master wants to hear, he will be turned back out to pasture."

For close to twenty minutes, Belafonte ripped the entire Bush administration, including an attack on Attorney General John Ashcroft.
"There's something wrong with men who think the way Ashcroft does and who manipulate the justice system the way he does."

Belafonte likened Ashcroft's tactics to the McCarthy era:
"Families were destroyed, neighbors spied on neighbors. Now we find Ashcroft cutting in under the guise of catching terrorists, suspending liberties and rights. To deny those rights, to any citizen, to any people, is to cast a great shame on us and lead us back to another dark period."

more at link
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/harrBy.htm

[Cronus Protagonist]

32. This would make a good picture for that article...

...if it weren't a Murdoch rag, perhaps.

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. Actually the Telegraph

was owned by Conrad Black and Richard Perle was on the Board of Directors, which makes it even more surprising to see this info coming from that rag.

[skip fox]

33. As everyone else, I hope this materializes as the wooden stake

driven through those bloodsuckers' "hearts," but I realize the source is the Telegraph and know its bias. So I'll hold back my enthusiasm until CBS (?) breaks the news.

[TryingToWarnYou]

34. Yawn..... another sure fire amount of "proof"...

This gets so old and frustrating. Why would this be any different than the dozens of other articles and pieces of proof to come out? This administration will come out smelling like a rose.

The American public is more concerned with the really important things like Survivor and American Idol than with the direction of the country.

Sorry... Im done ranting now.

[LittleApple81]

39. CBS bringing out the torture pictures WAS THE ONLY THING

that brought a light into this issue. Had they not done it, we would not know much about this.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

56. CBS' long-time connection with the CIA is the key here...

...the CIA is out to get the NeoCons removed from power, and they will facilitate that removal any way possible. In fact, look at the media outlets that are reporting these leaks, and you will see almost the same group that was enlisted for "Operation Mockingbird" linked below:

Operation Mockingbird: CIA Media Manipulation
<http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_louise_01_03_03_mockingbird.html>

Excerpt:

"Starting in the early days of the Cold War (late 40's), the CIA began a secret project called Operation Mockingbird, with the intent of buying influence behind the scenes at major media outlets and putting reporters on the CIA payroll, which has proven to be a stunning ongoing success. The CIA effort to recruit American news organizations and journalists to become spies and disseminators of propaganda, was headed up by Frank Wisner, Allen Dulles, Richard Helms, and Philip Graham (publisher of The Washington Post). Wisner had taken Graham under his wing to direct the program code-named Operation Mockingbird and both have presumably committed suicide.

Media assets will eventually include ABC, NBC, CBS, Time, Newsweek, Associated Press, United Press International (UPI), Reuters, Hearst Newspapers, Scripps-Howard, Copley News Service, etc. and 400 journalists, who have secretly carried out assignments according to documents on file at CIA headquarters, from intelligence-gathering to serving as go-betweens. The CIA had infiltrated the nation's businesses, media, and universities with tens of thousands of on-call operatives by the 1950's. CIA Director Dulles had staffed the CIA almost exclusively with Ivy League graduates, especially from Yale with figures like George Herbert Walker Bush from the 'Skull and Crossbones' Society."

[TankLV]

64. Death by a thousand cuts - final straw that broke the camel's back.

This still might not be "it" - but give it some more time.

We are fast approaching the results of the cumulative effects of ALL of the item's that by themselves, if the press and the DINOS were doing their fucking jobs, instead of praising that asshole in OUR White House, should have been enough to initiate serious investigations, with the prime focus on BUNKERBOY & HIS CRIMES - instead of the "let's try to figure out how not to blame anyone and not let this happen again" crap that we got instead.

WE NEED TO PLACE BLAME - SQUARELY & SOLELY ON BUNKERBOY.

WE NEED TO FIND & PUBLICIZE THE EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THE REST OF THE WORLD IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS WHAT CRIMINALS THESE THUGS ARE!

[Cronus Protagonist]

79. Blame Bush First

That's what I say....

BLAME BUSH FIRST!

Click here for "BLAME BUSH FIRST", and other fair and balanced yet stunning buttons, magnets and stickers

[Tight_rope]

102. True that!

The American public only cares that they are safe, have jobs, good healthcare and education.

Meanwhile, the government is doing it's best to make sure that those things are not available.

[0007]

35. What goes around comes around, they say!

Now that saint Ronnie is in the ground, another hole is being dug for junior and his Carlyle friends.

Let the games begin. By the way, I wonder what spook games are being planned this morning to divert the attention of the American people?

[Tellurian]

37. The spooks are with us for change...

Joe Wilson made sure of that!

If Bushey thought nothing of betraying his wife's identity, he'd think nothing of doing it to any one of them in retribution, if he felt so inclined.

[seemslikeadream]

42. spook games are being planned 0007

A bizarre story but the Dr. interviewed has testified before Congress.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1774320

MAJOR naval exercises - should we be paying attention?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1685819

Something big coming. Something bad. Very soon.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1701699

10 of 12 US carriers are now at sea
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1753441

Seriously, what's up with the naval deployments?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1772445

[0007]

45. Know whatcha mean jellybean!

Thanks for the links. A few I had read.

[seemslikeadream]

50. I'm sure you had. Just my way of sayin' hi

[are_we_united_yet]

40. And those

damned terrusts?

[izzie]

43. And this is what we get when we have a man like Bush in.

He hardly is in his office, sleeps long hours and spends all his time getting money. A man ruled by some one else. Can not have a republic like this and last. Every one had better start voting after they think.

[lil-petunia]

46. With ronnie dead and planted,

There is nothing to distract from this news. No noise, except that of cell phones dialing defense lawyers.

I, too, saw Ashcroft squirm under Biden's questions and comments. Way to go, Joe. That man deserves some serious prison time with some violent, beefy, large, well-hung room-mate. And then he can see how prison security really affects people. And why peanut butter is such a treat.

[NashVegas]

48. "A Fish Rots from its Head" - Nelson Report

via TPM, May 6

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_05_02.php#002924

"An interesting tidbit from this evening's edition of The (must-read) Nelson Report ..."

We can contribute a second hand anecdote to newspaper stories on rising concern, last year, from Secretary of State Powell and Deputy Secretary Armitage about Administration attitudes and the risks they might entail: according to eye witnesses to debate at the highest levels of the Administration...the highest levels...whenever Powell or Armitage sought to question prisoner treatment issues, they were forced to endure what our source characterizes as "around the table, coarse, vulgar, frat-boy bully remarks about what these tough guys would do if THEY ever got their hands on prisoners...."

-- let's be clear: our source is not alleging "orders" from the White House. Our source is pointing out that, as we said in the Summary, a fish rots from its head. The atmosphere created by Rumsfeld's controversial decisions was apparently aided and abetted by his colleagues in their callous disregard for the implications of the then-developing situation, and by their ridicule of the only combat veterans at the top of this Administration.

[leftchick]

49. It has to be CBS again!....

I am hoping it is on 60 minutes II on Wed. night! Woo hoo!

:bounce:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

53. The leaks are not only continuing, they are getting bigger in magnitude!

[Beetwasher]

58. Another Link In The Chain

This is methodical. The case is being built through strategic leaks to connect the chain, from the bottom up and the top down...

[malachibk]

62. I'll believe it when I see/hear/read it

This teflon gov. has overcome a truckload of bad news. No one in the media wants to hold these assholes accountable for anything.

So this time I will NOT get excited (Sibel Edmonds anyone?) since this too will certainly be a let-down.

[LittleApple81]

69. Isn't it amazing how they weasel out? But things are coming to a

head... so let's keep our hopes up.

[progressivebydesign]

67. Bush & Co. are so dumb and transparent..

I KNEW there was a reasont that Bush has been hammering lately that Iraq WAS definitely part of the War on Terror. He's been pushing the terror=Iraq theme lately with venegance. Now I know why.. if he has moved the American mindset to believe it was a TERROR issue, then the abuses were okay (according to his lawyer). It's bullshit.. but it's totally plausible that they're going to try this.

[Jose Diablo]

71. Just wait til Mrs. Cleaver hears about the rape of children

to extract information from their mothers.

This is far from over. I would say this cabal is finished.

Edit: An added bonus, Hatch gets flushed too, when his part in attempting to politicise a senate investigation, well our mom's won't be happy.

[Pachamama]

76. Mama's are going to be the key in this election...

...and this Mama (me) is working hard the next 5 mos to make sure as many Mama's know what is "really" going on....

http://www.badbabes.org (I'm a bad babe - but go to .org not .com :)
http://1000flowers.org
http://www.codepinkalert.org
http://www.themmob.com

Yeah, Mama's aren't going to like children being raped in the name of Terrorism....doesn't go over well Dubya, Rummy and Asscroft....

:grr:

[hightime]

73. Drum them all out of office!

[Pachamama]

77. Drum them all into JAIL!!!!! n/t

:grr:

[lil-petunia]

78. Jeruselem Post also on the attack

Of all places, jeruselem Post's editors have turned on their buddy, George W. Shrub.

"Jerusalem The Jerusalem Post (conservative), June 7: The high road is the Democrats' best path to victory. With President George W. Bush and the Republicans running a hollow, negative campaign, Democrats have a golden opportunity to be the party of ideas and Americans' only hope for change. This presidential election is coming at a critical time for the United States. America faces major challenges at home and abroad, from the economy to the budget deficit to security. It is clear that Bushism has been a bust at solving the country's problems, and President Bush still has not offered a single new idea to merit a second term...The American people want a president who will reform their government, not just expand it; increase their incomes, not their share of the tax burden; and make them feel more secure in these dangerous times, not more frightened. George W. Bush broke his promise to be that kind of president. It's up to Democrats to make America's best hopes come true.
— Al From, Bruce Reed"

See it at
World Press Review
http://www.worldpress.org/Americas/1865.cfm

[Mokito]

82. FWIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII........BOOM!

Here Mr. Bush, have some shock and awe. Bastard!

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

83. "..an American television network...."....Nickoldeon?

Somehow, given how "party line" the media is, I suspect we wont see much on this, or it will be very muted. I fully expect this story to get spiked.

[Shopaholic]

84. Maybe I'm just in a pessimistic mood

or maybe it's because I live in South Carolina and get to see Freepers way too up close and personal but I guarantee you that a surprising number of Americans will be able to "explain" this away too. I've heard them say time and time again, "I don't care what we do to "them" after what they did to us on 9/11." Sad, but true.

[Q]

85. "unlawful combatants"...what a crock of...

...BS. They were looking for ANY excuse to detain and torture 'towel heads' and it had nothing to do with the war on terror.

- Bush* ordered 'evidence' of 'WMD' to be tortured out of people...to make himself look better.

[Tight_rope]

86. Yuppppyyy...the neo-cons will have strokes, heart attacks, and more!

I love this form of torture. It seems that every time they try to put out the fire, someone adds more gasoline. Can't wait till it finally "Back-drafts" on them.

Oh, how I prayed and keep praying that Bushco will fall with disgrace! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[DaveSZ]

90. Yep

Most freepers (and many others) are so poorly informed because of Rush, Hannity, Worldnutdaily, Foxnews, and Newsmax, they think Saddam attacked us on 9/11.

[crossroads]

95. Extremely damning for the WH...

"Bring it on!!!" hehee
:evilgrin:

[young_at_heart]

98. Everything with this administration is always so secret

Also.......how could they have the chutzpah to ignore the Red Cross?

[Triana]

99. no blow job, no impeachment

the 'rule of law' doesn't apply to Republicans, remember. Only Democrats - and then mostly to blowjobs.

Nothing will happen with this. bu$hit will get away with it. He's not a Democrat.

[DrBB]

100. The fallback bulwark this one

Bush has said nothing "illegal" has been authorized, referring of course to the legal-looking memo his pet lawyers (the Walker committee) have cobbled together.

The fact that, substantively, that memo is gibberish won't matter to anyone but lawyers. As far as the press is concerned, they're not competent to judge. Their only responsibility is to cover "both sides" equally, despite the fact that one side is completely bogus. There are enough Federalist Society lawyers around to fill the talk shows and ensure that the whole matter will be seen as an "honest" dispute over abstruse legalistic questions about the president's constitutional power in wartime. The Media Bimbos--who are not responsible for knowing anything substantive about anything--will be able to cover it the way they prefer: as nothing but the usual left-right political ping pong.

Bush's bulwark will be essentially the same one he used for the non-existence of WMD. Instead of "I trusted the Intelligence people," it will be "I never went beyond what the lawyers told me." Those memos will be turned from a liability into an asset. Ted Koppel and Dan Rather and Wolf Blitzer and Hume and the rest--they're not lawyers. If there's a "legal" document saying this stuff was all within the law, who are they to know it wasn't correct? And the preznit, being just a regular dumb guy like the rest of us--how was he supposed to know? Gosh, you gotta do what they experts say! What else can ya do? It's all so complicated!

[MetaTrope]

103. And meanwhile at Camp X-Ray

Why did that soldier go missing in the first weeks of operations at Guatanamo Bay? And what did Captain Yee discover that got him court-martialled?