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Doomsayer13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:17 PM
Original message
Libertarians - where will they go?
I have a roomate who is a libertarian leaning conservative. He agrees with Bush on national security issues and economic issues, but with Bush's recent spend thrifty budget and this sanctimonious moral proselytizing, espeically with the gay marriage amendment ban, he's seriously considering either not voting for Bush or voting for the Democrat. It was surprising for me becuase just a few months ago, he was a sure Bush voter.

we know that a good deal of Bushites are social liberals/moderates. We'll see an increase in libertarian numbers or some of these folks just wont vote. We can only hope that this is the case.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. The official position of the libertarian party is anti-Iraq war...
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Too bad we can't say the same about the Democratic party
Edited on Sat Feb-14-04 05:35 PM by Capn Sunshine
Especially the DLC;I'm a member, I should know.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. As am I, and I've seen as many who are pro-Iraq war...
Edited on Sat Feb-14-04 05:38 PM by wyldwolf
..as non-DLC dems... truth is, some on our side just don't agree with us on this issue...
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Would not a true Libertarian vote for the Libertarian candidate?
Same with a Green,Socialist or Constitution Party member
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Doomsayer13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Libertarians generally vote strategically
the real ideologically rigid ones vote Harry Brown (L candidate for the last two races) but usually libertarian leanding individuals will vote Republican to keep Dems out of the race. that is unless the republican is someone so completely adverse to social liberalism that they couldn't bring themselves to do so. Bush is looking like he'll go there.
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. follow the taxes, its the center of the storm for them.
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T Bone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. yep, taxes and guns for the looneytarians
taxes and guns. I know one who is buying a bunch of guns. To fight Bush if he wins and to just have them if Kerry wins because he figures Kerry will regulate them off the market. go figure.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. I have to libertarians in my kucinich4pres group
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Dig the flag.
:thumbsup:
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tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Divided government is your best angle for him.
The GOP will surely control the House, barring some historic landslide. Which means that the White House and/or Senate would be the easiest means of getting divided government.
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leftyandproud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. They will vote Libertarian
I know several Libertarians...They say the goal is not to immediately win elections, but to pull both parties back to the side of limited government across the board, on economic as well as social issues. When people get tired of their party making endless compromises with the other side on the things important to them, they should consider third parties...and many people on our side are much closer to the LP than to the current democratic leadership.
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. Not Libertarian
No actual Libertarian could support bush on national defense or the war on terrorism. Your friend is NOT a Libertarian, despite what he may say.
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Exactly, he could not be a Libertarian
He's a LINO. He probably is just not happy to admit he's a Repug. It happens a lot.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Does he smoke Dope?
THAT could explain why he considers himself a "libertarian"...
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. as with the dems there is a broad range of acceptance of the tennents
many find the isolationist aspects to be unacceptable
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Doomsayer13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. well, he never said he was libertarian
he was libertarian leaning. Socially very liberal - 100% choice and wants a complete and total separation of church and state, but very fiscally conservative. He defines himself as libertarian leaning because he was pro-war and very pro Isreal.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. I thought
Libertarians were pro Palestinian?
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Mike Niendorff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. He'll vote Republican.

Then he'll tell you he voted Democratic.

And then he'll tell you that his Democratic vote shows how open-minded LPers are, and you really should consider joining the Libertarian Party.


MDN

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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. R in a close race, L in a blowout race.
They will vote R this year if the polls stay the same.
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EDT Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. I think alot of Libertarian people are like many, one issue voters
Whether it's taxes, gay rights, gun control, many grudgingly vote for the candidate that supports their hot button issue, eventhough other issues like abortion rights, etc... may take a hit as they're voting in someone who goes against their beliefs.

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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. exactly, and taxes are at the heart of their philosophy
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arko Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Not exactly,
Liberty is at the heart of their philosophy. That's why their called the Libertarian party.
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. and per an indivdual's relationship to the govt, whats the start with ?
taxes
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blurp Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:40 AM
Original message
Taxation definitely part of it

Taxation forces people do things for other people. Libertarians call that involuntary servitude. Most here would call it social justice.

It's hard to see how libertarians would vote Democrat.
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tomorrowsashes Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. the term libertarian was originally for anarchists
The term libertarian was originally used for and by anarchists, but has since been stolen by conservatives who don't want the law cutting in on there profits, but need the police to protect them from their slaves. Liberty and capitalism are in direct contradiction, thus it is hypocritical for right wing conservatives to describe themselves as such.l
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blurp Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
29. History of 20th century suggests you're wrong
Liberty and capitalism are in direct contradiction, thus it is hypocritical for right wing conservatives to describe themselves as such.

Bah.

I'd say they are completely compatible. In fact, I don't think you can have one without the other.

Seems history has shown that the most anti-capitalistic societies have had the least liberty. You think that's just some kind of accident?


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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. I have two libertarians who are in my kucinich4pres groups they would
voe for an anti nafta anti patriotact canidate
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Kinkistyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. swing voters
in a politically "safe" state like NY, CA, or AL they will prolly vote their own party, but depending on how much importance they place on the social aspect or fiscal aspect of their Libertarianism, they could go either direction. I used to be a Libertarian who placed a greater amount of importance on social issues, I tended to favor Dem candidates over Pug candidates.

Actually Bill Clinton turned out to be a lot more "Libertarian" than a lot of people realize. Given the current environment, Dems and DLC are alot closer to the Libertarian ideals than the Repugs (especially the new Neo-con generation) ever will be.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
19. actually libertains are anti war i heard mike badarnikspeatatantiwar rally
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. Who cares.
There aren't enough of them to give a crap. Most of them are pecan tree looney. Not just nuts but tree full o' nuts.
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Doomsayer13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. it's a good 10% of Bush's vote total
there are more libertarians out there than people give credit for, they just vote Repub in the GE because it's the logical thing to do. If libertarians are persuaded to vote for the D, or at least be dissuaded from voting for Bush, then it could really hurt him in the General election.
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