Is totalitarianism possible in the US?

[fujiyama]

Sometimes these notions may seem to be fodder for conspiracy theorists but there are various aspects of this administration that really are frightening. Many will simply claim "oh it's just politics as usual" and brush it off, but I think it's deeper than that.

It's obvious that republicans want one party rule. It's amazing how little this bothers people, even left leaning people. I told my liberal friend this and he asked "don't democrats want the same?". No, and I told him about the Texas redistricting. But that's not it. What about the recent changes in House rules where bills can be changed at the very last minute, and then votes can be taken, and representatives literally may end up voting on bills they didn't previously read.

I fear that one party rule may become semi-permanent. What will happen is republicans having a very clear advantage through the Electoral College as well. I find it to be a very likely possibility that democrats may end up winning the popular vote, but end up losing the EC, which favors those states with smaller populations (talk about undemocratic -- a person's vote from WY is worth a LOT less than a person's vote from CA).

Then there's the media, which has created a sort of game of our elections, where to them the outcome is never in doubt. Notice the way they repeatedly play Bush's NASCAR rally. It's sickening. It's pure propaganda. Then we see that the FCC members are getting bribed by big media execs. Oh, and one reason Dean's campaign xoverage turned very negative was because he dared to say it might be necessary to break up large media conglomerates. Information is now coming from a few sources, who's only interest is to keep power for themselves. Democracy is irrelavent.

Don't forget the courts -- the supposed impartial arbitor of justice. As we saw in FL four years ago, the courts can be rigged. Not only that but many judges actually RUN for office. Those judges recieve campaign contributions.

I used to believe that many claiming that we are creating a totalitarian society were nuts, but I don't think they're that far off.

Another term for Bush will have horrible far lasting consequences for this nation. We dare not call it corruption. People may watch the news and see Haiti and think, "how miserable. I live in the greatest country in the world."

Then there's BBV, where there's no paper trail, and where the company in charge is a huge contributor of Bush. How is this not a scandal?

[KissMyAsscroft]

1. Well, I dont think the American public would be bright enough to realize

when it did happen.

As long as they have their jobs, J-Lo and their massive hatred of anyone that isn't American....than the government can pretty much do as it pleases.

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. And as they lose their jobs, they find that a little extra hatred

is a surprisingly satisfying substitute.

[Sugarbleus]

9. This RW totalitarianesque gov wouldn't allow J-Lo..but

yeah, the domination of people is definately part these neocon's game plan. And, I AM CONCERNED. That makes two of us eh? lol

[DuctapeFatwa]

2. It is already here. (nt)

[whirlygigspin]

3. We report, you decide

snarf

[camero]

5. It can happen anywhere

It is well on it's way to being here. Most wouldn't even notice unless they voiced thier opinion.

[salinen]

6. The loss of the free press

in opposition to the constitution, allowed the takeover of the government. Why would it ever be fair again? This country is a broken machine. If chimp wins, that will be the end of democracy in America. It was nice for it's 200+ year run.

[wal]

7. It's an inherent danger of Democracy

Mate

There's a heap of quotes from the founding fathers of America warning of this danger (totalitarianism).
The best way to avoid it at this time is to vote

Kerry / Kucinich in '04

[Journeyman]

10. Since "totalitarianism" as a political movement. . .

was unknown before the 20th Century, I'd certainly be interested in which "founding fathers of America" warned against it. Got any citations to enlighten us with?

[rooboy]

11. Totalitarianism as a political movement???

it doesn't have to be a 'movement' to exist. Homosexuality existed for many centuries before the Village People came along.

I'm sure the Founding Fathers mentioned the word 'tyranny'...

[Journeyman]

15. Totalitarianism is more than tyranny. . .

more than autocratic rule, more than despotism. . . as a political movement it made its appearance in a number of European nation-states in the decades after the Great War, yet found its full-expression in only two: Germany and the Soviet Union, which alone among those nations that experienced it had sufficient superfluous populations to permit the development of a full-fledge totalitarian state. To equate such a unique form of governance with simple autocratic rule is to debase the central experience of our times and to miss entirely the radical nature of totalitarianism, its perversion of isolation and loneliness in its drive for total control, and the completely uncompromising nature of its internal dynamic and grinding logicality.

And you would equate it to the founding of the Village People. . .

[Fovea]

12. I think that they were equating totalitarianism as a form of tyranny.

Which is a reasonable generalization.

But let's check off the list...

subversion of government, business, and legal mechanism
to the ruling party... check.

Imperialist ambitions, if not fact ... check.

Cult of Personality ... check.

Large security/prison apparatus, with liberal application of capital punishment as dominant system of social control... check.

Militarism ... not uniformly. There is an enthusiasm for American Empire only within those groups least likely to serve.

Command Economy ... Not formally, but look at the perversion of Keynesian stimulus nepotistically distributed to Energy, Security, Oil Service, and Airline industries since 911, and it can be argued that the White-house is getting just what it ordered.

State Media ... Check, except for that pesky Internet.

[sattahipdeep]

17. The role of Krongard & Bremer

When asked about the status of the investigation into
the disproportionate pre-attack stock option trades
involving United and American Airlines, Merrill Lynch,
Marsh and McLennan Insurance, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup,
Bear Stearns, and American Express, etc. -- all icons
of American capitalism -- NYSE Communications Director
Ray Pellecchia said, "We don't even confirm that there
is an ongoing investigation."

Prior to being in Iraq, Bremer was Chairman and Chief
Executive Officer of Marsh Crisis Consulting Company, a crisis
management firm owned by the financial services firm Marsh &
McLennan. From 1989 to 2000, he was Managing Director of
Kissinger Associates, a strategic consulting firm headed by former
Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger.

Krongard's current lofty intelligence community position,
combined with his prior leadership of a financial institution
allegedly connected to terrorist hijacker bank accounts, suspicious
UAL options contracts, and "private banking" is so controversial that
it has not as yet sparked any official investigation.

That said, the evidence is substantial enough to potentially
expose the prior-knowledge issue -- if Congress chooses to act.

And while Treasury Department official Rob Nichols agreed that
unresolved conflict of interest questions remain, the CIA Executive
Director is still currently charged with supervision of the U.S.
intelligence investigation of his former firm and its
"private banking" operations.



Since the Sept. 11 attacks, Krongard has traveled to Afghanistan, hiding
his facial features behind a beard. After the war in Iraq broke out in
March, he went to Baghdad to see firsthand how events were unfolding.
While inside a palace that belonged to the deposed Saddam Hussein,
Krongard had a snapshot taken of him sitting on a palace throne.

It’s a lot of mumbo-jumbo.....
You can't see the eyes of the demon, until him come callin'.

[CHIMO]

8. Don't

See any reason that it could not happen.
Don't see why the US should be any different from other places.

[tom_paine]

13. Of course it's possible. Many think the transformation already begun

(I would be one of those)

I can happen ANYWHERE. And Amerikan Totalitarianism will be a new form, probably more free-looking in accordance with the unwritten rule that Totalitarianism is chimeric and tailors itself to the nation it is incubating in.

I am also reminded of something the people who study fascism seems to think is a characteristic of fascism which goes something like this:

"To embrace fascism a nations has had to have been politically free at one time."

Frighteningly enough, this sentiment could also be applied to the Imperial Subjects of Amerika.

[Selwynn]

14. Um, isn't it pretty much already a reality ?

I was trying to add further comments, but I think my question is rhetorical.

[Cat Atomic]

16. If Bush were intelligent and charismatic, we'd be there right now.

Thank god he's a moron.

[libragirl73]

18. Just my 2 cents...

...it already exists here, but you will
probably only be able to convince
1% of the population.
It's very depressing when you think about it
for too long at one sitting...
...a bit overwhelming, actually.

[dolo amber]

19. Hi Libragirl73

Welcome to DU. :)

I too think it's already begun, but it's a (gag) *kinder, gentler* form of its former self. They've learned their lessons well; come down on the populace too hard, you're likely to see riots in the street. They're using the 'frog in a pot' method. Throw a frog into a pot of boiling water, it jumps out immediately, but put it in a pot of cool water and gradually raise the temperature it'll stay in until it cooks.

As someone upthread mentioned, as long as there's J-Lo and Faux news and a million other things to keep the people anesthetized as to what the gov't is up to, they're won't notice the temperature is rising.

[MrBadExample]

24. Putting my nerd hat on...

Throw a frog into a pot of boiling water, it jumps out immediately, but put it in a pot of cool water and gradually raise the temperature it'll stay in until it cooks.

I hate to ruin a good metaphor, but this is an urban legend. Once the temperature gets beyond a certain point, the frog will try to escape just like you or I would.

I'll go sit back down in the pedant corner now. :)

[StopThief]

20. Thanks to the Second Amendment. . . . .

the answer is no.

[highlonesome]

21. we need to look at ourselves too

The right and left both suffer from the same delusion that if anything will usher in totalitarianism in the US. That delusion is the belief that government can do truly good things depending on who's in power. I think we all need to be more astute at identifying political pandering and support of the system of checks and balances than we currently are.

Though it does not seem like most are aware of it, it occurs to me that application of family law precedents are at least as threatening to basic constitutional rights as the patriot act is.

I also find the debate over same sex marriage to be one of the most significant and that I have not heard a truly relevant point from either the left or the right. To me the valid argument on same sex marriage is that it must be allowed not based on any moral sort of principle, but on the principle that family is the most basic unit of society and that family "sovereignty" is possibly the highest and most important value of a free society. Erosion of family rights necessarily precedes the erosion of individual rights and therefore denying same sex marriage necessarily will follow with expansion of government and governmental powers. The more people marrying and creating family free from government intervention imparts greater stability and individual rights to the people. The fewer people we have living in family arrangements, the less government will be asked to act in providing for us in the way that living in families historically has.

[Wapsie B]

22. You mean

we're not there now? How is a korporate-run state not a totalitarian regime?

[rman]

23. more appropriately: Despotism

Despotism is the opposite of Democracy; it is one continuous scale with less despotism/more democracy towards one end of the scale, and more despotism/less democracy towards the other end of the scale.
The extent of despotism vs democracy in a society can be measured by things such as repression of minorities, economic unequality.

As explained in the educational movie "Despotism", produced by Encyclopaedia Britannica in 1946.
http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=00178
It is as relevant now as it was then.

Fascism, tyranny, totalitarianism, dictatorship etc are all forms of despotism. All these have in common that they are anti-democratic.

There no particular reason why it would not be possible anywhere.