Is Nationalism a Liberal Ideology?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

Poll question: Is Nationalism a Liberal Ideology?

Nationalism:

Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.

The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. in case any one wonders

in my opinion it used to be a conservative issue but its now more a liberal issue cos of all the jobs that are moving abroad

[SeveneightyWhoa]

2. In Canada its certainly a liberal ideology.

Most "nationalists" of the past have been liberal (ie. Mel Hurtig). Right now, the socialist NDP is the only party with a semi-"nationalist" platform (ie. not giving up our sovereignty to the US).

[Screaming Lord Byron]

6. You have to distinguish between Ethnic and Civic Nationalism.

Ethnic Nationalism is the defence of one group to the exclusion of others. The Parti Quebecois too often argues from this standpoint, sadly.
Civic Nationalism is the defence of a coalition of interests that is distinct from others, ie a state. American Revolutionaries were civic nationalists.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. i am going to get better at this

its only my first poll....:grouphug:

[Minstrel Boy]

17. Yet Trudeau's public life was spent combating the tribalism

of Quebec nationalism, and we have not had a more liberal Prime Minister.

And though the NDP is anti-continentalist I wouldn't call it "nationalist". I'd call it internationalist, in the best socialist sense: opposed to corporate globalism, and a proponent of self-determination for all peoples.

[Rich Hunt]

3. both / neither

...because I think cultural nationalism is quite a different thing.

[mobuto]

4. Um, neither

It can be either.

Its normally a radical right wing ideology, to the right of simple conservatism, but you can have left wing nationalists as well.

I'd say nationalism vs. internationalism is largely a question of your horizon of consciousness, so as conservatives like to retreat into what they imagine the past was like, so do they retreat into their own communities and rebel against foreign influences.

BTW, I'm very much opposed to nationalism - it is the most destructive, provincial impulse in human history.

[catzies]

19. You reminded me of one of my favorite bumperstickers

"The Republican Party - Working Hard to Make a Better Yesterday."

[DrWeird]

5. When does nationalism become fascism?

nt

[Screaming Lord Byron]

7. When does Socialism become Fascism, or Liberalism.

All ideologies can be perverted.

[mobuto]

10. But Nationalism is perverted to begin with

the whole idea that your group or nation is better than everybody else's is dangerous.

The real question is where patriotism becomes nationalism. Patriotism is great. Nationalism is prelude to evil.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

11. I disagree. But then, I come from an Irish/Scottish Nationalist background

Our Nationalism believes in the establishment of nation states that are distinct from Britain. There is no racism there. We are merely participating in the long decline of the British Empire.

[Rich Hunt]

12. absolutely!

Sometimes it's not about who is 'better', but about the survival of a people!

Thank you for making this point.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

13. The word is an albatross. We should find a new one.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. too true

[mobuto]

16. And what makes a people?

Americans aren't a people. They're a community of different peoples. Talking about American nationalism makes no more sense than talking about Maryland nationalism. And if you talk about Maryland nationalism then why can't you talk about Annapolis nationalism (as distinct from those clowns in Baltimore) or Duke of Gloucester Street Nationalism?

Its an arbitrary and artificial way to divide people, and its caused much suffering.

[DrWeird]

18. Yeah, but you don't really need an american nation, do you?

Just the concept of an american nation. Apple pie, cowboys, NASCAR, professional wrestling, flag waving, etc.

I mean there all forms of tribalism, right? It's just nationalism is on a bigger scale. There's all sorts of stuff on a small scale, notice the riots after the patriots won the superbowl. It was "us" (new england) vs. "them".

On a small scale you overturn a few cars on a big scale you gas 12 million people.

[GreyV]

20. I agree.

I absolutely agree. In general, there is really no specific or true American national identity. I see this in people all the time. "I am of Irish/Italian/Mexican/Chinese nationality" says one guy. He wasn't born in in any of those countries, neither were his parents or grandparents. He doesn't hold citizenship of any of the countries/regions he named. If he were to say something like that anywhere outside US, he would probably end up being laughed at. He is an American, but because being "American" means close to nothing in traditional "national" sense, he had to say something.

We Americans tend to confuse our national, cultural, ethnic, and sometimes even racial identities. It's a mess, it's hilarious, its America.

[mobuto]

8. It all depends on whether

you're in the march or watching the march.


Nationalists on parade.

[anti-NAFTA]

9. I say conservatism, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrongwithit eom