Regan and the Cold War

[erpowers]

I have been thinking about this for a few day nowI planned to post this even before Regan died today. A few days ago I read one of Ann Coulter's opinion articles. In this article she praised Regan for winning the Cold War. This is something that many conservatives do very often. I was wondering should Regan get credit for winning the Cold War in that it ended about one or two years after he left office. Communism ended in 1991-Regan left office in 1989. Please explain why or why not.

[trotsky]

1. If anything, he extended it.

Many Soviet hardliners now say that Reagan's "evil empire" and other rhetoric scared the Soviet population enough that they rallied behind their Communist leaders longer than they otherwise may have.

Secondly, his $2+ trillion added to the national debt helped us out-spend the USSR more than "beat" them.

[salin]

2. to them all good things are due to Reagan

the strong economy in the late 1990s... due to Reagan... though the recession under him, and the one under Bush... those were both Carter's fault. If the long delay in economic cycles they chose to grant to Reagan is true... than bushjunior's recession must be the fault of Bushsr.

Also the attributions are all about the arms race in the 1980s by reagan with the idea that he bankrupted the system (and ours but hey..) with no recognition of the role of Gorbachev's Peristroika. With no recognition of the role (early on) of the Marshall plan that rebuilt Germany and assisted in the European economy to rebound much more quickly... giving stark contrast to the limited economies in the Eastern Block. There were many, many factors that led to the collapse of the Soviet system and their satellites in Eastern Europe. Reagan, if anything, played a relatively small role. But to the conservative mind... all good comes from Reagan. All bad either is the fault of Carter (for all bad things prior to 1992) or Clinton.

[lil-petunia]

3. Bush senior as victor? hardly.

Anyone else recall the reaction of the Bush whipehouse to the baltic states' leaving?
"No, you can't go. It will disrupt our new world planning. WE support a together USSR."

shitheel, senior. I lost friends under tanks that day in Lithuania.

WE won the cold war despite Bush, not because of that Mr. Lithium-auto-immune-anti-depressant-pain-killer-addict.

As some studies show, mental illness and unbalance seems to run genetically. Perfect example is his son.

-> back to your original programming. Did he outspend the USSR and force them into economic turmoil. No, they were doing it on their own well enough - BUT his push was the extra kick that upset their already unstable apple cart.

I, for one, am glad he died if only to take his poor wife out of the firing line of Alz' patient. Her daily terror was worse than you can know, unless you've experienced it. Besides, she was always amusing, depending on which horoscope she read.

[crossroads]

11. The 80's were awful years...

:eyes:

[Faygo Kid]

4. You mean Don Regan, his chief of staff?

Didn't know he died today. Thought it was Reagan who died. The people of the Soviet Union deserve credit for overthrowing their government. Sorry, don't mean to be smart about this, but let's get the man's named spelled right.

[RoyGBiv]

5. Ann Coulter is an ignorant hose beast.

That is all.

[lil-petunia]

14. who can argue with truths like that?

I've heard that she actually is a sex maniac and tries to keep it under the covers to maintain that neocon aura. Plus, her publicist takes as many sampling polls as Dickie Morris did for Clinton.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. The Soviet Union was going bankrupt ,anyways.

They were disuniting with or without us. Afghanistan had depleted their resources, much like Iraq is depleting ours.

The only factor that I haven't learned more about, but which is very consistent with the CIA as we know it today, is why, with all the technology and intelligence we had on the Soviet Union, didn't the CIA predict the Communist demise? Or did they see it coming and allowed Reagan to take all the credit?

[erpowers]

8. I had Once Heard...

that Ronald Reagan told them to lie about the Soviet Union so he could get more money for his SDI (Star Wars) program.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. That information should be declassified by now. This should no longer

be a mystery. Maybe this is the kind of information that Bush II is withholding? If that's the case, it would be one HELL of a story.

[suegeo]

7. The polish pope

I thought the pope had something to do with the end of the cold war.

How'd that darn cold war get started in the first place? I thought it was those left-over Nazis, who were snuck into the USA after WWII (by America's own "intelligence" services! Anybody recall Reinhard Gehlen? Operation Paperclip? the Dulles Bros.? Prescott B? Ike?

[Zynx]

9. The Communists knew their system was doomed starting in the late '70s

Therefore, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter ended the Cold War. ;)

[EdGy]

12. that is absolute bullshit

what happened in the soviet union had nothing to do with Reagan and everything to do with economic, political, and social trends inside Soviet society.

The process of change was well underway long before Reagan. As someone else pointed out, Reagan's belligerency made the cold war last longer; according to insiders, if not for Reagan Gorbachev would have come to power earlier than he did, which among other things would have shortened the war in Afghanistan, possibly preventing Taliban from coming to power, and then no Al Qaeda, etc.

There truly is nothing positive in his legacy. A true statesman who was really interested in peace and security would not have heated up the cold war in 1981, would not have massively increased military spending, would not have pushed the US into further militarism, but rather would have worked to foster the forces for change in the Soviet Union.

[Curious Dave]

13. Reagan's main contribution

in winning the cold war was in showing the Soviets that we had a better credit rating than they did!

At best this provided the final nudge in pushing over a system that was about to collapse under its own weight anyway.

[lil-petunia]

15. in the abstract, SDI made sense at that time.

But for those neomorons in gov't today to still pursue it, when we have no enema willing, ready or able to attack our butts in that way - what a waste of resources and effort!

It doesn't work. They refuse to test it honestly. (Heck, I don't care if the tests fail, all tests do - that is how you learn and fix things. it is the refusal to test that pisses me off, on top of it being a woefully antiquated pointless, enemy-less policy) The worst? It takes away from the problems in:

Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, venezuela, Cuba, North korea, China, Philipines, Malaysia, Angola, Syria, Egypt, Israel, and so, many, many more.


Now, all we need is some lobotomized dip like Sean Hannity to smirk, "But for you say that ti won't safeguard America proves that your liberal, Reagan-hating, terror-supporting, anti-american, weak-defense, failed policies are trying again to destroy his brilliant career and legacy."

F*ck off, Hannity. get a life, get some real facts into that two bit, one cylinder leaky excuse for a brain. But after stuffing the pint size contained with three gallons of shit, we have little hope, don't we?

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

16. Only partially.

Reagan did boost defense spending and orchestrated those proxy wars.

But this would have happened anyway, as Carter was also boosting defense spending, and supported the first proxy war, with the US aid to the Mooj in a\Afghanistan.

But it takes two to tango, and if Reagan did have Gorbachev to deal with the USSR wouldnt have collapsed the way it did.

It really was Gorbachev who was willing to not play the game anymore, and who wanted to reform the society. Reagan sort of "lucked-out' that he was dealing with a reformer, not a Kremlin hard liner.

Not to say the USSR wouldnt have collapsed anyway, but it might have taken longer and been alot more messier.