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namvet73 Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 05:20 AM
Original message
neocon acrimony turns my stomach....
I've been reading Robert Reich's new book, "Reason Why Liberals will Win The Battle for America." I have found it very educational with some of my own occasional disagreement. (Such as: I don't believe that there are large numbers of jobs for, what Reich calls, "symbolic Analysts." I think those jobs are being off-shored almost as much as service jobs.) I decided to take a look at Amazon reviews to see what others were saying. I found the following, which literally turned my stomach. It is so vicious and mean. There seems to be an extremely dangerous thought pattern out there. I would love to hear some comments on this review from other liberals. Thanks!


Reviewer: Ross Bartlett

The human race has always given into the what they perceive as the easy way. I saw a movie once where the actor said, "Everyone wanna go to heaven, but no one wants to die." In other words, no one wants to pay the price. Admittedly, for most people, the conservative values are hard to live up to. On the other hand, the liberal way--anything goes--is attractive to most people. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone has to pay, and as the USA moves closer to socialism, and closer to destruction of the American way, as we know it, those who pay will be a small minority at the top of the socio-economic ladder, while the rest hold their hands out for whatever they can get for nothing. I wonder if they will enjoy living like the socialist in Europe. I guess being pretty much anti-American, they can turn to America for help when they need us, and curse us when they don't. Why not, that's part of living in a socialist country, isn't it?
The natural man is selfish, greedy, lazy, slothful, and morally corrupt. These characteristics must be overcome by diligent attention to improving on the natural man. There is a passage in the scriptures of one religion that says, "The natural man is an enemy to God." Consider this; way too many liberals, or more appropriately, leftists, fall into one or more of the following categories: atheist, agnostic, socialist, communist, moral deviants, and haters of religion, especially Christianity. Notice that they represent the opposite of what they hate; moral depravity vs. morally clean, and so forth.
Great group, huh?
It is easy to see why the author says they will win. At least temporarily, after promising their citizens the same things the liberals in this country offer our citizens, the Nazi's won, Stalin won, Jim Jones won, and so forth.
For example, look at the Hollywierdos who worship the gods of "Liberalism". Where can you find more alcholism, drug addiction, divorces, sexual deviancy, and deviant children than with the actors who infest Hollywierd.
Mr. Reich, you are so correct, but our great grandchildren will never thank you for it.

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ole navy Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Acrimony?
Vicious? Mean? Other than the reference the the "Hollyweirdo's" the comments are logical, if not wrong. It's not a dangerous thought pattern "out there", it's what the vast majority of people can logically see if one has a lick of common sense. The fear of communism, fear of becoming a European Socialist second-class country, and fears of paying outrageous taxes for government hand-outs to folks who won't work drive this type of thinking.

Logical arguments, not whining will change people's minds and opinions.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Hi.
Are you on the appropriate forum? I think not.
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namvet73 Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Oh?
This is not about people who WON'T work.

This is about my 86 year old (REPUBLICAN) mother, who recently broke her hip, can't work, and her medical bills are being paid in large part by a "handout" called medicare. She is also receiving "hand-outs" in the form of frequent visits and moral support from her family.

And if you are "ole navy," you should know that one of the things they teach recruits that they are a team and to help others when they can't help themselves.

So, are you saying: "Get up and walk, you bastard, you only lost two legs.... and stop that f$%king bleeding." I wouldn't want to be on your ship.

So, guess what. Boot camp not only teaches you how to push yourself, it also teaches you a form of LIBERALISM called "help your buddy."

Maybe I should have made it clear, but Reich is not talking about hand-outs.

You're logic is apparently only ones and zeros and life is more complex than that.



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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. "hand-outs to folks who won't work" as opposed to....
Edited on Mon Jun-07-04 07:32 AM by BiggJawn
Hand outs to large corporations who put millions of dollars in your campaign warchest?

Ole Navy, you forgot to say those folks who won't work drive downtown to pick up their welfare checks in Cadillacs....

And could you explain how " becoming a European Socialist second-class country" is worse than becoming the Corporate third-world gulag we're heading for? at least in Europe, they take care of their own, but I guess such a decadent Liberal concept is lost upon the likes of you.

"it's what the vast majority of people can logically see if one has a lick of common sense"

Oh, so you're trotting out the old "Any THINKING person would be a Conservative" chestnut? Screw you.

You "god" is dead, Yuppie scum, and I'm glad.
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SpaceCatMeetsMars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. ole navy, this guy is not giving an argument, he's giving
a bunch of false stereotypes, a straw man argument, the type prejudiced people make about other groups of people. For a random example, I will take my own ethnic group -- and say all Italian-Americans are mobsters, wear cheap suits, have big hair, use bad language, wear ugly jewelry and so on. It's just stupid.

I have heard Reich a lot and he has never said anything about socialism and people getting handouts, so it appears the guy has not even read his book.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Handouts, Hmm? Well How Are We Going To Put Food On Our Family
Without Jobs?

The economy is booming you say. Yeah Right. Most of the supposed jobs are fictitious creations of a computer program run by the BLS. The rest pay minimum wage and offer no benefits.

You claim no one wants to work. In reality no one wants to work for cheap labor conservatives. Before you give us more of the work harder rhetoric, try thinking about how little working harder actually buys in the US. No, taxes are not the problem. No, laziness is not the problem. No, liberals are not the problem.

The problem is very simple - conservative principles designed to enslave the rest of us to the ultra-wealthy. Share the wealth and you will see an explosion of economic activity that will make St. Ronnie's supposed miracles seem tame by comparison.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. "comments are logical, if not wrong"
Please explain the meaning of this statement. Your mind is working about as well as the idiot who reviewed that book on Amazon.

The comments are not logical. They are wrong.



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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Typical corn fed ignorance on their part n/t
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. There are so many holes in that argument
that it's hard to know where to start. My parents were, are, and always will be liberals and they are very religious people, volunteering to help out people who are less fortunate, etc. So there's one argument shot down. I consider myself to be a liberal and I go to work every scheduled day, as well as working overtime sometimes. So I guess I'm still a lazy bum according to this guy. "Conservative Values"? What, fuck you jack, I got mine? As far as I can tell, that seems to be conservative values defined in a nutshell. I will step down and let other, more intelligent people take over now. After all, I'm just a lazy, no values commy.
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bacchant Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yep, all their favorite bugaboos
Black & white minds unable to navigate a grey world.
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AliceWonderland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. Well
I find it difficult to get upset over this review, since I have no idea what this person is talking about. I can't make any sense of the words. There are a lot of insults and labels and attacks here, but nothing coherent. Uh, does this guy know what socialism is? Is he saying that "natural man's" propensities must be improved upon? Methinks the author fails to see the irony here.

It just sounds like some dogmatic yahoo ranting in the usual, predictable way.
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. I WILL be reading Secretary Reich's book! Thanks namvet73!
"Reason: Why Liberals Will Win the Battle for America by Robert B. Reich" :)
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