"Top Ten Things You Never Knew About Mohamed Atta"...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

<http://www.madcowprod.com/>

Excerpt:

"The truth which no one dares speak of is that as we approach the third anniversary of the Sept 11 attack there has still been no official investigation into the murders of 3000 people that day...at least no investigation to which the American people have been privy.

Results from the FBI’s ballyhooed 4000-man investigation have never been revealed. And the Congressional Intelligence Committee investigation met in secret; its report contained the famous 28 page 'gap.'

And anyone looking to the 9/11 Commission to offer answers will be disillusioned to learn the panel was only charged with identifying what might have prevented the White House, Pentagon, CIA, and FBI from being taken by surprise in a way not seen since Pearl Harbor.

The 9/11 Commission, in other words, will answer only the question of what should have been done differently. There’s nothing in the panel's mandate about letting the American people in on the answer to the only question worth asking: what happened?"

[Abe Linkman]

1. It's too late for the public to be able to handle the truth of 9-11

The public at large couldn't "handle" knowing that their own Gov't was complicit in 9-11. Neither can very many DUers, for that matter.

[PretzelWarrior]

3. right. you give them too much credit.

they can't even torture POWs without it getting leaked and you think they masterminded the genocide of thousands of Americans with only tinfoil hat varieties of "proof"? please.

[Beam Me Up]

5. Who is "them," precisely?

From madcow:

The truth which no one dares speak of is that as we approach the third anniversary of the Sept 11 attack there has still been no official investigation into the murders of 3000 people that day...at least no investigation to which the American people have been privy.

We don't know who the perpetrators of the deaths of 3000 people, mostly Americans, are. Do you not find that INCREDIBLE. As in HARD TO BELIEVE? And yet, it is true. Of course we've been TOLD over and over and over again, even today we are being told, it was terrorists, al Quida, under the direction of Osama bin Laden. Everyone BELIEVES this to be true -- and yet what evidence have we been given to substantiate this. Damn little.

All your post does is underscore the validity of post #1: most people are not ready to look at this seriously, including many right here at DU.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. Even Osama Bin Laden initially denied that he had planned the 911....

...attacks, an exceedingly odd position for someone that has promised to bring down America.

And the FBI has stated that they have never been able to establish a link between the alleged hijackers and Al Qaeda/OBL. I find that to be more than a little bit interesting.

<http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm>

"The plans were hatched and financed overseas, beginning as long as five years ago. Each of the hijackers came from abroad: fifteen from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, and one each from Lebanon and Egypt. All 19 entered our country legally, and only three had overstayed the legal limits of their visas on the day of the attacks.

MY NOTE: No hijacker was from Afghanistan or Iraq.

While here, the hijackers did all they could to stay below our radar. They contacted no known terrorist sympathizers. They committed no egregious crimes. They dressed and acted like Americans, shopping and eating at places like Wal-Mart and Pizza Hut, blending into the woodwork all the while. When four got speeding tickets in the days leading up to September 11th, they remained calm and aroused no suspicion. Since none were known terrorists, law enforcement had no reason to question or detain them.

The hijackers also left no paper trail. In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper – either here in the U.S. or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere – that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot. The hijackers had no computers, no laptops, no storage media of any kind. They used hundreds of different pay phones and cell phones, often with prepaid calling cards that are extremely difficult to trace. And they made sure that all the money sent to them to fund their attacks was wired in small amounts to avoid detection.

In short, the terrorists had managed to exploit loopholes and vulnerabilities in our systems, to stay out of sight, and to not let anyone know what they were up to beyond a very closed circle."

And to top it all off, we get the strange stories of people surfacing around the world with the exact same names as a few of the alleged hijackers. Were the alleged hijackers using assumed names based on stolen identification cards/papers?

<http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A59320-2001Sep19¬Found=true>

<http://www.welfarestate.com/911/>

[kiahzero]

12. A white paper was released

Expecting a case prosecutable in a court of law from intelligence is just dumb; between the methods used to collect information, and the need to protect informants, you're not going to be able to meet the requirements necessary. Hence why the FBI and CIA didn't (and shouldn't) talk; that way, you need not worry about facts gathered from intelligence tainting a federal prosecution.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1579043.stm

[Beam Me Up]

13. No, what IS *dumb* is expecting me to believe some "white paper"

issuing from a government that has lost whatever little CREDIBILITY it ever had. They lie. They lie continuiously. They lie even about things they don't need to lie about. Clearly they want us to BELIEVE their conspiracy theory. Why should I?

[kiahzero]

16. Then don't complain that there's no proof

Since you believe they lie, no amount of proof from them will ever be sufficient. Therefore, why bother asking for it?

[Beam Me Up]

17. They haven't offered any evidence, much less "proof" (your word)

THAT is the point. Again: they haven't offered any evidence--none, zero, nada. They expect me to believe what they say without evidence. The Bush administration has lied repeatedly about so many things and they expect me to believe their conspiracy theory about 9/11 without evidence.

Why should I? Why should I believe what they tell me to believe, ESPECIALLY when they offer no evidence? Especially when they block investigations? Especially when they are obviously covering up their foreknowledge if not complicity? Especially when not one single person has been held accountable for ANY aspect of this tragedy?

Why are you so hell bent on justifying the * administration's position on this?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

22. There is plenty of evidence to support a 911 conspiracy without...

...considering anything that the NeoCon Junta says or doesn't say.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. Well...that's certainly a convoluted response...

...even "conspiracy theories" are easier to believe than that.

You do realize that most, if not all, of what you dismiss as "conspiracy theories" involve the NeoCon Junta to varying degrees of complicity and/or participation, don't you?

So, let me get this straight...the NeoCon Junta WANTS us to believe that they were involved in 911? Interesting approach, but to each his own.

[Beam Me Up]

24. M_L_D, I'm on YOUR side :-)

Some how we're not communicating.

I'm calling the "official story" a "conspiracy theory" because that is what it is -- they have put forward the theory, convenient for their invade the middle east and rule the oil supply agenda, that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda are responsible for 9/11. I'm saying I don't believe THAT; why should I; they've offered damn little evidence and they've lied about everything else.

I wasn't dismissing "conspiracy theories" at all -- I was saying I do not believe the one put forward by the * administration and the corporate media. They have given me every reason to doubt them and no reason to believe them. Your original post is a perfect example. Why HASN'T anyone in the corporate media interviewed Amanda Keller? Apparently Dan Hopsicker has and yet his reportage is not given any air. Why haven't they questioned Governor Jeb Bush about his involvement? It is precisely because there is no 'official media' discussion of these and many many other issues that I no longer trust them. They are dismissing these issues out of hand and covering them up by simply ignoring them as if they were irrelevant. They are LIEING and contributing to a cover up by omitting these issues from public awareness.

Are we understanding one another yet?

[teryang]

2. The Israeli moving van stories were interesting

The Kings Bay and nuclear fuel connection sounds like spying to me.

[genius]

4. I know he was trained at a military base in Alabama.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. The Foreign Officer's School in Montgomery, AL....

...I wonder how many of the alleged terrorists were Saudi military officers?

[oblivious]

20. New York Times, Sept 16, 2001

"The Defense Department said Mr. Atta had gone to the International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama; Mr. al-Omari to the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base in Texas; and Mr. al-Ghamdi to the Defense Language Institute at the Presidio in Monterey, Calif."

[Minstrel Boy]

6. "Mohamed Atta loved pork chops, and 49 other things you may not know"

After I read Hopsicker's Welcome to Terrorland a couple of months ago, I posted a thread of 50 points about the Florida 9/11 connection I'd learned from him:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1433886

Wonder if Daniel reads DU? If so, a big :hi: and thanks for a book which should be required reading.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

7. I've got to pick that book up sometime soon...work becomes an issue,

[Beam Me Up]

10. I just ordered my copy, should be here in a week n/t

[meow mix]

9. that was a great post MB, which i copied to my livejournal too =)

when u originally posted it i mean
ty

[seemslikeadream]

19. PRESIDENT BUSH’S FAMILY LINKS WERE UNDER INVESTIGATION

Had you read this by Thomas?


PRESIDENT BUSH’S FAMILY LINKS
WERE UNDER INVESTIGATION
BY TOP U.S. SPY CATCHER

by
Gordon Thomas


Business links – involving “the mobilisation of trillions of dollars” – by President Bush’s father and his brother Neil, were under investigation by America’s top spy catcher, Paul Redmond, when he resigned.
A well-placed Washington intelligence source said that Redmond quit after a White House meeting with Vice President Dick Cheney and Attorney General John Ashcroft.
They are known as “The Enforcers” – ensuring there is no taint on the reputation of the increasingly embattled President with the failure to find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Already, said the Washington source, the two men have ensured Bush distances himself from Tony Blair’s claims that the weapons will be found.
But equally Downing Street will want to stay clear of the allegation that the President’s family were doing business with Saddam from 1989 up to months before the outbreak of the first Gulf War.
In a document obtained by the respected London-based International Currency Review, it was claimed that after a year long investigation, it had uncovered evidence “of the mobilisation of trillions of dollars in 1989-91”.
The document names a number of banks it alleges were “supervised by the Bush Sr White House” in the alleged transactions.
The banks identified in the document include the British Royal Family bankers, Coutts; Morgan Guaranty Trust and Chase Manhattan, New York; Banco Exterior de Espana, Spain; First International Bank of Denver in the United States.
Christopher Story, the publisher of the specialist Currency Review said the documents relating to the Bush family are “taken from a portfolio of papers” which was made available to the Review last July.

more
http://www.yourmailinglistprovider.com/pubarchive_show_message.php?glo...

[seemslikeadream]

25. Let's have another kick for Mohamed and poppies

Back by popular demand, our 3 box specials:

Buy 3 boxes of our Tasmanian Mediums and get1 free!
Buy 3 boxes of our Turkish special and get 1 box free.
Offer valid until June 30, 2004

At Poppies International we sell and provide information on all varieties of poppies. Our company is known worldwide for selling some of the highest quality dried flowers, poppies and the highest yield poppy seeds available anywhere. Poppies International has the most popular poppy pods on the market and we experience 75-80% repeat customers. We guarantee both the delivery and the quality of all of our products. Poppies have been used for over six thousand years both medicinally and for their beauty in garden plants and dried flowers. Currently it is illegal to grow papaver somniferum, opium poppy seed, and opium poppies in the US; however, it is legal to possess the dried pods and seeds for decorative purposes. Within our site you will find a wide variety of, dried poppies, dried flowers, poppy seed and opium poppy seeds, all of which make some of the highest quality arrangements possible.


opium poppies
Afghan growers of opium poppies, back in business
By Trent Seibert
Denver Post Staff Writer

Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - SULTAN PUR, Afghanistan - Ahmed Azim is thrilled that the Taliban is no longer in control here.

Now he can grow all the opium poppies he wants.

"I wasn't allowed to cultivate poppies on my land when the Taliban ruled," said Azim, 40, as he spread yellow grainy seeds on dark, tilled dirt. "Now I can make money again."

Azim and his fellow farmers in the dusty plains outside of the eastern city of Jalalabad are planting opium poppies where last year they grew wheat or vegetables.

Some farmers have even ripped up the wheat seedlings they planted last month, replacing them with the new cash crop.

"There's no alternative'
Where now there are rows of dirt as far as the eye can see, in four months there will be miles of scarlet-flowered opium poppies, the prime ingredient for heroin.

"I know it's wrong. I know it's negative," said Khalid, a 35-year-old farmer who hoes land next to Azim. "But there's no alternative to support ourselves and our families. All of us are doing this now."

It's not just the dozens of farmers who live outside of Jalalabad. Countless others are doing the same thing across Afghanistan as the Taliban flees and its strict anti-drug laws go up in smoke.

http://www.poppiesinternational.com/opium_poppies/opium_poppies.html

[bobthedrummer]

14. Kick.

:dem::kick:

[seemslikeadream]

18. Have you seen this book by Gordon Thomas?

[seemslikeadream]

23. The CIA and Its Secret Experiments

The CIA and Its Secret Experiments

with MKULTRA & Germ Warfare.

America’s Great State Secret

by

Gordon Thomas

MINDFIELD

· Sensational never-seen-before documents from inside the White House, CIA and other agencies.

· Reveals the documentary evidence that links US Vice-President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to the cover-up of the death of top CIA scientist, Frank Olson.



· Explains how the CIA financed a ruthless and systematic assault of the human psyche – using a British-born psychiatrist to spearhead the assault.

· Names other world renowned physicians who were involved in the most sinister research programme ever created by any United States government – and its secret partner – the British government.

· Reveals how a woman was programmed to become a CIA assassin.

· Describes how a CIA chemist was murdered by his own colleagues after he had turned to the one man he thought he could trust – a London psychiatrist engaged in similar work.

· Reveals how “expendables” – the CIA generic name for those selected for killing – were secretly murdered after they had been experimented on in Europe.


“Meticulously researched, Mindfield is a deeply disturbing story of hideous government experiments using drugs and behavioural modification. Teaching hospitals on both sides of the Atlantic were used. Many of the doctors who performed those experiments remain in high office today and still conduct those experiments with impunity. Mindfield is a terrifying warning how easy it is for elected governments to sanction secret experiments to control human behaviour. Gordon Thomas has meticulously taken us from incredulity to awareness of the Machiavellian lengths our governments go to in our unsuspecting name. This remarkable book is essential reading for all those in a trusted role to care for people. In every sense it is an outstanding text that reveals the darker side of medicine.”

Professor Anne White
M.C.S.P. Bsc M.D. F.R.C.P.A.
Assistant Clinical Professor of Medicine
Department of Psychiatry
McMaster University, Canada


http://www.gordonthomas.ie/mindfield.htm

[Elidor]

15. Damn good thread

:kick: