Ed Schultz is an idiot

[wuushew]

he can't understand why native American mascots are offensive.

This was on today's show. Agree or disagree

[LisaM]

1. He's not really saying that

he just said that Redskins probably is offensive but that they are unlikely to change the name.

[wuushew]

2. What about the "Fighting Sioux"?

I doubt any surviving members of the Lakota want to be associated with a white man's game and under the incorrect label to boot.

There is no need for mascots in sports. Why not just call sport teams by their place names? For example Green Bay 7 Tampa Bay 0.

[Jersey Devil]

8. You never know until you ask

I read recently that the Seminoles in Florida voted and decided they like the idea of Florida State using "Seminoles" as their mascot.

[wuushew]

10. being racially offended carries more weight than fondness of names

if it is truly a non-important issue than sport fans should be the ones to acquiesce. Unless these polls are 100% in favor maintaining such mascots they should removed.

It does secretly eat at people since force of habit and familiarity are not things easily broken away from without discomfort.

[tx_dem41]

12. 100%??

Okay...whatever you say.

[wuushew]

14. You would rather insult someone than change a jersey?

Being considerate to people is far more important than money or pursuit of a past-time sport.

[tx_dem41]

16. I tend to listen to the people that would or would not be offended...

I'm just remarking on your 100% threshold.

[Jersey Devil]

20. Florida State has used the Seminole nickname with the tribe's consent

since 1947

In an age of political correctness, the Seminole tribe of Florida has allowed FSU to use Seminoles as its nickname since 1947. At each home football game, the tribe allows FSU to dress a person in full Seminole warrior attire, ride out onto the field on a horse and hurl a flaming spear at midfield - a tradition started in 1978.

Finally, there's Florida State's widely known war chant. A stadium full of FSU fans sing in chorus, while adding a forward hand motion that symbolizes the brandishing of a tomahawk. Yikes. If that isn't a tomahawk chop at political correctness, what is?

The Seminole tribe said in a statement it doesn't consider the use of their tribal name or other FSU gameday traditions derogatory or insulting in any way. In fact, the tribe has even assisted in the process.

"(The Seminole tribe) helped design the costume of the person who rides out on the field at football games," FSU Director of Media Relations Browning Brooks said. "The FSU administration has a constant open dialogue with the tribe and for many years had a very close relationship. We want the tribe to help us with customs and traditions so that we get them right."

Each year at FSU's homecoming, representatives from the tribe and a Seminole princess dressed in traditional Seminole dress help crown the school's Homecoming King and Queen.

Browning said everything FSU does is with the Seminole tribe's blessing.

http://www.dailyorange.com/media/paper522/news/2004/10/08/Sports/Florida.State.Has.Used.The.Seminole.Nickname.With.The.Tribes.Consent.Since.1947-747932.shtml

Perhaps native americans are not as thin skinned as the bulk of the politically correct crowd.

[Bluzmann57]

3. "Redskins" is a racist nickname

And they were the last NFL team to have any black players. But Schultz stated a fact. They are not going to change the name of that franchise any time soon. He never said that he agrees with it.

[RobertSeattle]

4. I think he's just acknowledging reality

Yes it is totally F'd up that we use "Redskins" as a name for a football team, but the name was started way before we even thought it was wrong. Just 50 years ago it was just accepted "common sense" that the races should be segregated.

At least the Washington Bullets changed their name...

[devilgrrl]

5. The Washington Crackers vs. the Cleveland English Gits

:shrug:

[frictionlessO]

7. Now thats what I'm talkin' about!

I've known some natives that get pissed and some that just have more pressing issues to think on but still feel its racist. I guess there is a tribe or two out there that don't care if their name gets used honorably and accordingly... but yes I think those are splendid comparables!

[devilgrrl]

18. I know the Seminoles don't care...

at least that's what I hear.

[LuCifer]

44. I thought they were playing...

...the Newark Negros?! :sarcasm:

[Drewskie]

6. .

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. Wouldn't be the first time Ed acted like a racist knuckledragger

[Renew Deal]

11. I agree.

He's an idiot.

[Placebo]

13. As a citizen of Illinois...

I don't see the big deal.

[PassingFair]

36. You might "see" it if your team was fondly called

...the flaming homos :sarcasm:

[Gabi Hayes]

38. As a citizen of Illinois, and Illini graduate (as well as huge fan), AND

a Redskins fan, I do.

tell me, do you know the derivation of the term "Redskin?"

here's a clue, it has nothing to due with the hue of their skins (at least while they're alived)

[Gabi Hayes]

39. Oh, yeah. As a citizen of Illinois, do you think that Pekin HS,

according to your logic, should change its nickname back to what it was?

[matcom]

15. i LOVE these debates

never hear anything about the "Fightin' Irish" :eyes:

folks, if this is what is important in this day and age, its no WONDER we are fucked.

read somewhere that there was a biker gang of women called "Biker Dykes" (or something like that)

funny. the "Dykes" WANTED to keep their name but the COURT said no (if i remember right)

again. :eyes:

[lonestarnot]

17. No he's not an idiot... Cindy on his program right now!

[Chovexani]

19. Here's a hint:

"Redskins" is not a reference to skin color. Look it up. It's pretty gruesome. Not even in the same league as "Fighting Irish" or whatever nickname/mascot the NCAA apologists like to trot out in order to trivialize Native concerns.

I said it yesterday and I'll say it again: as a black woman, if I saw a team called the New York Niggers and every time a touchdown was scored, some white man shuffled onto the field in blackface with a bucket of chicken, I'd be pretty fucking pissed.

I don't have enough Indian blood to really have a say in whether or not it's offensive to the tribes, but I will say that I'm highly amused by people bringing up Indians who don't have a problem with it in order to shut people up who disagree. Especially when some of these people would laugh at anyone who tries to bring up Ward Connelly talking points in a debate on Affirmative Action.

[hughee99]

21. My wife's highschool sports teams were originally called the "Warriors"

and they had an "Indian head" as their symbol. After some complaints, they changed their name to the "Trojan Warriors" and replace the old symbol with a trojan head. What I can't figure out is why people considered "Warriors" and the indian symbol offensive but "Trojan warriors" and the trojan symbol not offensive. They are essentially the same, they just depict a different group of people. Is it just that there are no Trojans around to offend?

[matcom]

23. well, if you have your image on THIS product.......

what is left to offend? :eyes:

[Chovexani]

27. I don't know

Maybe it's because the Trojan War happened a few thousand years ago, and was largely thought to be a myth until recently?

And that Indians--the ones who weren't wiped out in genocide--still live in appalling conditions on reservations in the same country? And that many don't even have the opportunity to attend the schools who mock them with their racist mascots?

What I can't figure out is why this is so hard for people to figure out.

[The Gunslinger]

35. Right on !! (nt)

[hughee99]

46. So it's only offensive because of the current plight of the people?

If there were a school with the "indians" mascot next to one of the wealthier tribes (like the Pequot indians in Connecticut) would it still be racist? If they kept the name "warriors" and just changed the logo to a trojan, would it still be racist? If this were done with the approval of the tribe in question (FSU and the Seminoles for example) is it still offensive?

Look, I think they probably should change the name if someone of that specific background finds it offensive, but I don't believe that any depiction of someone of a specific nationality or culture is automatically offensive, nor do I really understand why the depiction of one group seems to always be considered offensive, and the depiction of a different group in a similar way is rarely considered offensive. The irish seem to be okay with Notre Dame, despite the fact their mascot is a boxing leprechaun.

[EST]

22. I understand this is an important issue to some, and why didn't

the insensitive louts in charge make an instant revision as soon as it became visible on the "general public" radar, I'll never understand.
Having said that, it does seem to me that far too many are doing the old gag at a gnat and swallow a camel routine. OUR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC IS DYING!! For christ's sake! There are far more important crises afoot to be bullshitting around with something that could be corrected by little more than a stroke of a pen.
If we can find a way to end the horrible diseases that are afflicting our society resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands - nay, millions - as a direct result of the violent racist sons of satan occupying the seats of power in our world, it will be a simple matter to knock out the easy stuff.
Yes, I am angry, very angry, at this dumbass piddling while Rome burns!
Dammit! Why is it so hard to keep our eyes on the prize instead of being dragged around by the nose and force-fed this mind numbing fare that has no more real importance than a fart in a windstorm in the course of world history.


Soap box kicked firmly back under bed. Asbestos suit (pre WWII issue, of course) unpacked and at the ready.

[Chovexani]

24. For the 800 billionth time

Most of us are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time, for fuck's sake.

Kthnx.

[matcom]

25. i think i need more proof

because i am REALLY not sure that is accurate

[Chovexani]

28. I'm doing it right now!

:P

[EST]

31. Perhaps you are...no, I'm sure you are.

However, in most engineering disasters, from flying machines to bridges, the seeds of incipient failure lie in trying to do too many things, incorporate too many revolutionary ideas or fix too many "poor ideas" at one time, in one design.
A famous quote, attributed to Lyndon Baines Johnson, goes something like, "No, I did not say Gerald Ford could not walk and chew gum at the same time; I said-- Gerald Ford couldn't walk and fart at the same time."

A sizable majority of the people who are drawn to progressive/liberal ideals, and most especially those here at DU and other sites with similar direction are, by definition, very intelligent and enormously capable-quite capable of holding two or more concepts at the same time. We are the choir.
My point is that, as decidedly varied as such bright lights are, the need for concentration on as singular a goal as possible is the desperate, desperate shortcoming between us. We tend to, in our big tent philosophy, concentrate on issues instead of policy, with each group defending its pet issue, to the virtual exclusion of all else, rendering us powerless as a cohesive group. The only way Hitler was defeated was by a concerted attack, a subjugation of lesser agendas and pet peeves to the larger necessity of defeating the fascists - same as now.
It is the small minded haters and the too-busy-with-family-and-career folks who cannot take the time or energy away from amassing their personal fortunes and building their tiny empires to whom we must appeal and provide enlightenment.
The single issue voters, bless their simplistic view of the world hearts, have to be delicately pointed the way and gently prodded with the notion that there is a far bigger monster at the door than that pesky, irritating roach in the cellar. That is our job.

[Catrina]

33. Beautifully said!

Thank you ~ :-)

Oh, and I think the problem with Ed Schultz was that he had more important things on his mind today. He had Rep. Conyers on who wrote a letter to Bush today signed by several Dems and one Independent, asking him to speak to Cindy Sheehan.

He spent the entire show yesterday on Cindy ~ and slammed every rightwinger who called in, very effectively. He also had Paul Hackett on, and took on Rush Limbaugh for his vile comments about Hackett's service.

He is angry also that the Bush administration keeps a list of citizens who will not be allowed in to Presidential rallies.

He has been really good on Karl Rove, eg, and the Valerie Plame affair. He has been fiercely outspoken against this war and the lies that were told about it.

My feeling was that he was a little puzzled that with all that we are dealing with, this seemed not to be at the top of his list. He conceded it was of importance to some people.

[EST]

37. Thanks so much for helping clear that up.

My impression was that Mr. Schultz was, at one time, a rabid right winger who sounds a bit like R. Limbaugh and only fairly recently, for various reasons, began to see through the anger, hatred, and single-minded viciousness that passes for patriotism among the erstwhile "conservatives."
Such a person would seem to speak from as valid a position of authority as those who reached their point of view without having to travel through the veils of darkness, as it were.
My own view has it that we are, indeed, fortunate to have a person of such proven intellect, experience, and ability as a truth filter and entertainer.

I do understand, just as an oft beaten dog will cringe or jump even before the blow falls, the much maligned, passionate defender of justice for all will sometimes tend to over react and immediately assume the worst about those who seem to have a different prioritization of common challenges.

Xenophobia can be our worst enemy or best friend.

Edited for grammatical whiz-banger

[Chicago Democrat]

26. Ed Schultz is in a 1950's time warp....

He's the way he is and at least he's mostly on our side and attracts people we need to win.

[wuushew]

29. I rather win by making sure all the votes count

especially in heavily Democratic counties of Ohio and Florida

heavy base turnout > wishy washy swing voters

[lastknowngood]

30. Ask him if the Washington Darkies would be an approiate name

for a team with some white guy in Blackface.

[SunDrop23]

32. Okay now tell the WHOLE story, not the out of context version.

[orleans]

41. what WHOLE story would that be?

[SHRED]

34. He is not an idiot but...

I think Ed is way to cavalier on the subject. He doing a talkshow however so stirring passions is his business.
The Native American gentleman that called was the bearer of the TRUTH and REALITY. He was awesome and evoked great emotion in me. He is a great spirit among us. Ed respected him highly. I could tell. Who would not? I forget his name but he was fantastic and I would consider him a brother.

[NaturalHigh]

40. One way or the other...

I don't really care. My only real sports desire is to see my Sooners in a BCS bowl, having run through the Big 12 competition. Since the NCAA ruling won't affect OU, this is not big on my list of priorities.

[LittleClarkie]

42. I've heard Native Americans say they didn't have a problem

has anyone ever polled the population as a whole to see if the majority has issues?

Now while I can see why the Cleveland Indians logo is just wrong, on so many levels, I would think that naming your team "The Warriors" would be a compliment. You name your team after something fierce and strong, after all, don't you? That's why the Sequoias in this area are actually quite happy and working with the High School that chose that name for their sports teams.

How many Native Americans are actually upset, I wonder.

I didn't here Ed say that, but one of his listeners called in with the same opinion.

So... when he had Cindy Sheehan on at the end of the show, and promised her he'd keep calling her as long as she was in Texas, was he an idiot then?

[sleipnir]

43. We conquered them, so we have the rights to their image.

Or so the thinking goes.

I'm appalled about the lack of respect for other cultures on this board.

Though, I'd love to see a "Wife-Beatin' Whites" team, that'd put most of the naysayers in place.

[eridani]

45. The difference between the Cleveland Indians--

--and the Washington Redskins is like the difference between the Minnnesota Vikings and the Minnesota Squareheads.