Today I faced poverty in this country

[nadinbrzezinski]

As I said I live in a slightly better area of town, and while picking up the groceries for dinner today, and doing other errands, I got to see something I have not seen since oh... the Reagan years.

Here I am coming out of Starbusks and here is this old lady going through the trash looking for recyclable goods... now I not only gave her my bottle (she said that she takes them to the recyclers, I know it is for extra cash), but tried to find out something and if nothing else get her lunch. Folks she is a proud lady, living on SS and Medicare, and on Medical... and would not say much, except that she is now reminded of the depression.

She went through it as a young kid.

All I can say is... I hate these fuckers.

[bullimiami]

1. reliving the good times under reagan

i remember there was a place in N Miami Beach we used to go fishing.
One day we found a family from up north living there in their old truck with their kids.
Out of work from the auto industry.
They were there awhile and eventually moved on.

good times indeed. I can see why w and friends reminisce

[Dez]

2. I am on SSI

and after bills, I have less than $100 to spend. I wouldn't wish this on anyone! If I make more than $60, they will deduct that amount from my earnings. The deal is they want to keep me poor!

I'm on SSI for disability, so I can't work, and get off SSi.. I am stuck in this situation.. thanks to our politicians, I live in poverty, extreme poverty! Yet, they give themselves pay raises, and are filthy rich! Repubs AND Dems! By the way, does anyone know of any Dem who voted against their pay raises? I bet none of them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Yeah I know though I suspect

Kucinich voted against it, and Sanders... but they are not regular politicos

[Ladyhawk]

12. I'm in the same boat, Dez. SSI Disability pays nothing.

I'm in better financial shape than you are, but I, too, went through a time when I barely, BARELY had enough to live on. I hope you don't have credit card debt because the minimum payment is about to double. It might be a good idea to look into bankruptcy if you are in debt. Do it before the new laws take effect. I'm lucky. I just barely got out of credit card debt and now I know better than to fiscally function like a cut-taxes-and-spend Republican.

Why are we being punished for being sick? Why? And why do Republicans hate disabled people?

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. you really don't want me to answer that

quetion?

but I will try... the Pubbies hate anything that they fear, at a very deep level,. also they believe tehy were chosen (wealth) for salvation and you were not, (Calvinism) They also have this false sense of entitlement....

And I coudl go on

Your advise on credit cards is sound, and I will repat this to anybody readying, don't build a debt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

13. Since I don't live in the USA, I'm not afraid to say this:

If you can, find a way to get paid under the table. Feel free to lambast me for suggesting it, say out loud you'd never do such a thing but please DO it (and if you actually agree send me a PM). It's like killing a man who's pointing a gun at you -- no longer a crime but self-defense.

[Raksha]

51. I live on a fixed income too, and believe me...

...NOBODY with any common sense or humanity would ever lambast you for suggesting that, especially not someone who has been there or who is still there. There have been times when I too have had to collect recyclables out of trash cans to make it to the end of the month. And I wasn't the only one picking through those trash cans either.

[sandnsea]

21. DeFazio's go into a scholarship fund

He hasn't taken his pay raises since he was elected.

Remember when Dick Armey said everybody else in America gets a raise every year, why shouldn't he. I've never heard a Democrat say something like that, and that's the difference.

[anitar1]

38. DeFazio is one of a very few who have scruples.

I admire him greatly for this.

[kestrel91316]

54. You could do something "on the side" like petsitting. Of course you

would be an honest citizen and report all your income (right, lol).

[The2ndWheel]

3. The worst part

They don't care if you hate them.

But I hear what you're saying.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Oh I know they don't care

trust me I know that... and that said, I did know of this povery, never have put my head in any damn hole, but it struck me were this was happening...

[MadHound]

6. I was homeless for a couple of years during Reagan's reign

Part of it was my fault, going through some rough emotional times. Part of it was a very tight job market at the time. While I wouldn't want to go through it again, in the long run being homeless was a good thing for me in many ways, changed my life for the better.

Now I'm better prepared for the economic shitstorm that is hurtling towards us, and hopefully my family will ride it out fairly unscathed. But if not, if worse comes to worse, I know that we can survive. Many many people cannot, and the toll of the poor, elderly and others will be a high one.

God help us all.

[slackmaster]

24. One of three times I've been dead broke was during those years

It was 1981, the year after I graduated from college. I tried doing a job in counseling which I thought was my career path but quickly discovered the work was not for me.

(The other two times I've been dead broke were the day I was born, and right after I got divorced.)

[melody]

7. we need to follow your example for these people

We know the Reptiles in office aren't going to help. The only way we can all survive is to help those who are in that position. We may, in fact, be in "that position" one day ourselves...even if our last name is Bush (hey, I can dream, can't I?)

[az chela]

8. SAD

This is heartbreaking that we in this great country came so far during the Kennedy yrs and the Clinton years to go backwards to become a 3rd world country.!!!!!
We have to stand up for our beliefs and support John Edwards and John
Kerry and everyone who is behind them to get out country back!!!
I had emailed my senators and just recieved a phone call from someone in John McCains office regarding my email about the war and the hurricane.
He said John was supporting pulling out of Iraq slowly so that they dont have civil war and i said what the hell do you think they have??
I also said John should be ashamed,he was a pow and is supporting this war that was created under false pretenses.
I told him that I was sick to my stomach when I saw the pictures of john and bush eating b'day cake while people were hanging on roof tops trying to survive and then bush goes on to Coronado Island for 2 days to party while people are dying.He said he agreed with me on that and I told him we need to bring our troops home and take care of this country.
After another 5 minutes of telling him what
I thought he said he had to go and I said I will end this conversation with these words,IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH and he said thank you for your opinions I will pass them on to Mr MC Cain.Yah right

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Welcome to DU

and sometimes screaming at congress critters actually gets some thngs done... most of the time it does not

We need to vote them out, but I don't believe the electoral system works any more either (will vote, but don't expect them to count it)

So keep fighting

[hardrainfallin]

9. Hmmm. I see things like this every day (at least once a day) in my

neighborhood.

My response (it's the best I can come up with), is to hand them a 20, whether they ask or not.

When I buy fruit from the guy selling it on the street at the stoplight on my way in to the office, I give him at least $3, even though he only wants $2.

When one of my neighbors ask me for change for the bus, I give them dollars (depending on how many I happen to have on me).

When I buy Streetwise, I always pay double.

Recently was behind a woman buying school supplies in the line at Walgreens. She was very carefully going through the coupons, obviously counting every penny. I said (discreetly!) "why don't you just let me put that on my card?"

I realize not everyone here at DU can afford to do that, but I also KNOW that a lot more of us could and probably WOULD if we would only be CONSCIOUS of poverty around us, not simply look the other way and think of it as "someone else's problem."

Regardless of who is to blame for this abject poverty, it's here, it's real, and, I don't know about the rest of you, but, yeah, I consider it "my" problem.

I see too many people with too much money keeping it to themselves. Not out of malice, but for lack of consciousness.

Given away in small increments like this, I don't notice the missing money--especially not since I QUIT spending money at Starbucks (not a political decision, medical).

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Starbucks is a rare luxury I give myself

we are sc-imping for a down payment, so it is rare. That said, I have done thing like buy lunch, buy dinner, get food, pay for medicine....

And yes it is something I do because it is here... today I was way too short on actual cash.

We also have our homeless we have adopted, sort off. When we see them, we always get them something to eat and coffee

[hardrainfallin]

15. there's something to be said for just giving them

the money and letting them get their own food.

While trying to inform the public about the election fraud back in December, I hired a homeless guy to help me stuff envelopes, and took him out to a restaurant, which is also where we sat stuffing envelopes.

But I generally tend to think there's a double advantage of just giving them cash--gives them a little "self-esteem" boost, you know? And who knows, maybe they'll use the money to invite another homeless person to lunch....

I'm not getting down on you for going to Starbucks...I had lunch at Starbucks today.

Just generally trying to put the consciousness out there...that we who are not necessarily "rich" but also are not necessarily hurting and certainly not living in abject poverty really can AFFORD to do more than most of us do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. There is a reason why I don't give cash

worked for way too many years as a medic, and saw the chronic homeless and ahem their spending habbits... many years ago I used to also give the Social Services phone numbers to these folks, that is why I rather feed them...

I know what you are saying about the self esteem, hence why long term IDP should be allowed to cook and do other things for themselves, but the chronic homeless and money... it is complex

Now the newly homeless and you can indeed tell... is a whole different ball of wax

[hardrainfallin]

25. Sorry, but sounds slightly patronizing to me...

I don't give a damn what they do with my money: when I think about how carelessly I can throw away $20, when I think of the little luxuries I sometimes allow myself when the cash flow isn't exactly what it should be (I'm self-employed)...I'm in no position to be criticizing anyone's "spending habits"--except those of the public officials who are spending MY money, money that I don't give to them willingly, only to keep them off my back.

What is 20 bucks? It's fucking NOTHING. It's what I pay for PARKING when I get my goddamned hair done.

If I give some homeless person the guilty little pleasure of wasting a twenty, well, then I've had a good day.

I'll get my hair done next month.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. No what you are missing what I am saying

and it is not patronizing... I am sorry but one of the major problems with the chronic population (going all the way back to reagan) is mental disease and drug abuse... extreme drug abuse.

As I said there is a difference, and you can tell them apart...and those are the folks who don't get money from me... for they don't need the money, they need a lot of other things that we USED to do as a country.

Now people who ask for money to stay a night in a hotel (I have paid for hotel rooms), or beg so they can get something to eat, that is a whole different ball of wax... but to each their own.

[hardrainfallin]

34. OK. Indeed. I try to avoid handing out money to crackheads

too. Don't see a lot of drug addiction in the homeless population around here, tho. And jeez, as far as alcohol is concerned, s'pose there's enough of that, but I'd rather foot the bill for their alcohol consumption than for the president's--like I'm doing now--at least they aren't out there killing people!

[eridani]

53. You are talking about the VISIBLE homeless

There are quite a few who blend in and really, really, really don't want anyone to know that they are homeless. I was tabling for Kucinich in 2003, and a fellow with a backpack came up and said that he was a dishwasher at the restaurant where we had had the fundraiser the previous night. Dennis always goes to the kitchen to thank the workers for providing the food at events like this, and the fellow remembered Dennis very well and liked him a lot. Naturally I asked him if he would caucus for Dennis, and he said that he couldn't vote because he was homeless. That isn't true--homeless people can use a church, a shelter or a food bank as an address, and I told him so. He just wouldn't do it, saying that he didn't want people after him.

It wasn't until long after he left that I realized he didn't want his name on any official piece of paper that would make his homeless status a matter of public record. Duh! Disenfranchised by his pride. He found places to shower twice a day so that he could be qualified to work around food preparation, and you would never have guessed that he was homeless to look at him. There are many more like him, proud, employed, and working very hard to prevent people from knowing about their situation.

[melody]

42. great post, well said

I try to do the little I can do also.

If we each did a bit of that, it wouldn't nearly make up for what a good and responsive government can do, but it would certainly smooth the transition.

[hardrainfallin]

47. more suggestions...

tip generously (extremely generously), especially the lady in the bathroom at the restaurant (I generally leave her a 5)

tip the postal delivery guy, the landscaper, the gardner, not JUST at holiday time

go to the post office regularly? bring chocolate next time, for the person behind the counter who you KNOW is barely scraping by

cab drivers.

got friends who aren't making much? send them care packages (edibles) or an occasional check. Don't wait for them to ask, they probably won't.


Take someone shopping.

Offer to babysit for someone.

Fuck bush, fuck these greedy filthy pigs. The more they take, the more we give. That's been my policy ever since I've been able, and the more they steal, the more radical my giving gets.

Pssst. pass it on. heheheh.

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. Tip the postal delivery people? The Post office workers? Those people

are FEDERAL employees and make VERY nice salaries. Trust me, the postal delivery people and post office workers DO NOT need your help. I know this from a personal perspective. My brother-in-law is a 'postal worker' and he makes a LOT of $$$$. Your money would be better spent on all the other people you help. ;) Just a bit of advice to make your $$$$ go further to help the truly "needy."

[hardrainfallin]

58. Yeah, that's why we now have a verbal phrase in the

English language called "going postal"--evil demonic serial killers with high job satisfaction, great bennies, all the trimmings who just decide to shoot the hell out of the place because they love their jobs so much.

How many kids does your brother-in-law have?

I know that where I live (in a 99.9 % black population), the postal workers are obviously NOT shopping where I shop. That's all I gotta say, and I don't need stats to bear it out.

[in_cog_ni_to]

60. My sister and brother-in-law have one GROWN 35 year old daughter.

He's worked for the PO since the 70's and has great benefits and makes plenty of $$$$ probably because of seniority.. He works at the Culpeper, Va. PO. He's been there since my niece was 13 years old and worked at the PO here for 12 years. However, if Bush gets his way, his job could change drastically. Bush wants to "privatize" the PO system. What a damn NIGHTMARE THAT would be! Look at what he did to FEMA. My B-I-L is holding his breath until the fascist is out of office.

[Iktomiwicasa]

16. I feel for that

poor lady, yet extreme poverty the likes of which many of you have never seen is part of daily life here where I live. And it doesn't matter which party is in power.

[hardrainfallin]

18. Pine Ridge, right? Isn't it statistically one of the

single most poverty stricken areas in the whole country?

I hope this year, when winter rolls around, if you post requests for donations, DUers won't respond the way they did last year, which was by saying "I hope those people get the money they need."

[Iktomiwicasa]

29. Yes

Pine Ridge. Shannon County, S.Dakota is by far the poorest county in the United States and Canada combined. The per capita income of roughly $6,000.00 annual here on the rez is actually skewed. Non-natives make up about 6% of the population, but earn 25% of the total annual wages. Many of these are governemnt employees that work for the tribe.

[ninkasi]

52. I hope I'm not insulting you...

That is not my intention. If my husband and I are doing wrong, please let me know.
We have been sending small donations, all we can afford, to St. Joseph's Indian School in Chamberlain, SD. It is supposed to be a school for Lakota children.

We do not wish to insult anybody, but only hope that this is a place which might do some good. I always have hesitation about preaching Christianity to people who have their own culture, their own laws, and everything but their own lands and the right to have previous treaties honored.

If there is another place where our small donations would be better used, do you mind letting me know? Please do not be insulted. We are a bit older, our only income is Social Security Disability, but when children are involved, my heart always goes out to them.

[BeHereNow]

26. Hi Iktomiwicasa!

Got your mail- thanks.

I have posted info here at DU before about where to send
donations to various groups in need.
Why don't you give the DU members an address
to send help?
I know MANY of the good people here would.

BHN

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Many of us have

indeed

[Iktomiwicasa]

33. Here

are some people that can really use some help.

The Children's Village
Box 1034
Pine Ridge, SD 57770
Phone: [phone]
Contact: Melvina and Louis Winters
Runs the only foster home in the community of Pine Ridge for Lakota children living on the Pine Ridge reservation. Donations of children's clothing (age 5-18), canned goods, blankets, towels, twin sheets, bunk beds, children's toys, and games, and financial support are welcome.

[BeHereNow]

36. This information should have it's own thread-

Do you mind if I start one?
BHN

[hardrainfallin]

37. I've saved this for (near) future ref, but here's another idea

--along the lines of feeding two birds with one stone--

Winona LaDuke's White Earth Land Recovery Project has a retail operation that provides employment opportunities for the people of the White Earth, MN Reservation.

I've long since begun doing all my Christmas shopping there, or whenever I have the need to purchase some kind of "thank you" gift, I order it from there (the products are super high quality and the recipients are always totally taken aback), I also buy large quantities of her pre-packaged soups for myself--great alternative to campbell's. They ship all around the world, btw, and foreign friends tend to be particularly happy about gifts from here.

So might the Winters also be able to use products purchased online from Native Harvest (like wild rice, soups, maple syrup, etc.). The food is better than canned.

The advantage for potential donors is that you can simply call in the order and they will ship it for you:

here is the URL...

(If you think this is a BAD idea, Iktomiwicasa, say so and I'll delete the post)

http://ww2.nativeharvest.com/

[BeHereNow]

39. My two cents-

I have a lot of experience in this area and I
must tell you that, from my experience, it is always
better to direct support to the source.
The fewer channels of involvement, the better,
as far as assuring the goods getting to the target.
Send directly to the intended.
This is true of prison inmates, foster kids, schools and
others at the mercy of bureaucracy.
BHN

[hardrainfallin]

41. My 25cents on your two. I wanted to hear Iktomiwicasa's response

to that, not yours: and there's a reason-- could be that the Indian way of thinking on this differs.

Certainly does for me (and I am Indian, and have sent items directly to Pine Ridge many a time), but in this case, I wanted to hear it not just from any Indian, I wanted to hear it from someone who is actually on PINE RIDGE.

The fact that you would so much as IMPLY that an operation like Winona LaDuke's White Earth/Native Harvest project would be a risk is just over the top--or a sign of complete ignorance.

There is already substantial cooperation between LaDuke's Rez and Pine Ridge/Rosebud, attempting to deal with the problem of people not being able to survive the cold winters (among other things) by generating wind and solar energy

http://www.honorearth.org/initiatives/energy/overview/renewable/wind.html

i'm not sure what the current status of that project/cooperation is.

MORE likely would be that they would send EXTRA goods just because they know it's going to Pine Ridge.

Sorry, but I do prefer to see large amounts of organic, heirloom wild rice that has been in Indian hands for generations over canned goods (i.e. commods)--and that is a nutritional, health concern as much as anything.

Edited to add: And I really, really resent the implications you make--they reflect how little you understand about collaboration and the value of getting the most for your money.

:grr:

In fact, if you want to make a separate post of it, consider using the stats La Duke gives on the honortheearth.org site to encourage people to send donations directly to the WInters!!

I'm sure Winona would be grateful and appreciative of your efforts, as would the people of Pine Ridge!

Forget about the wild rice and syrup: "those people" are used to eating commods! I'm sure it will work out "very well for them".

:sarcasm:

[Iktomiwicasa]

43. Not to hijack

someones post, but yes, the white earth project gets direct help to native people without a bunch of hands between the source and the recipient.


I think another post on this might be a good idea.

[hardrainfallin]

45. that's what I thought--and my thinking was also that TWO

native projects could benefit for the price of one, so to speak.

[BeHereNow]

48. Hope you can forgive my ignorance

and consider my experience.
My experience has NOT been good with third party
"distributors."
I am happy to hear that there ARE good people who actually do
what they say they will.
That is a first for me.
thanks for enlightening me with further information.
Always good to learn more.
BHN

[hardrainfallin]

49. I don't think you understood what I was trying to suggest:

NativeHarvest is a retail operation, it is geared toward SELF-SUFFICIENCY for the people of the community at White Earth Reservation in MN (also not exactly a wealthy community).

My suggestion was that people, esp if they were intending to send foodstuffs, could just place a RETAIL order with NativeHarvest (the same way you could theoretically do this with any retail outlet) and have the foodstuffs delivered to the address that Iktomiwicasa posted.

This should not preclude or rule OUT direct donations of clothing, blankets and/or money (all of which are drastically needed, especially now as winter approaches).

My thinking was that, because Native Harvest also takes online and telephone orders, it would be an "easy" way to support TWO native communities at the same time.

So, now that we're done fighting here and have things straightened out--why don't you make the separate post? I would suggest borrowing the LANGUAGE and STATS on poverty at Pine Ridge from the LaDuke honortheearth.org site, posting the address of the WINTERS first and, if you like the "feeding two birds with one stone" idea, also including a ref to NativeHarvest, suggesting that this is also one way to support Pine Ridge--by placing retail orders with NativeHarvest, with delivery to the Pine Ridge address?

Peace? Peace.

[BeHereNow]

50. But of course. Peace.

By the way, I never meant to "fight" with you.
Never my intention at all.
What a waste of energy fighting is- AND it
gives power to the very thing we are trying to balance.
I know you know what I am talking about.
:hug:
BHN

[bleedingheart]

17. I remember a classmate who lived in a stationwagon

no one knew until one day it was discovered by one of the other parents.

The family lived in it because they lost their house, but in spite of it all they continued to send the girl to school....but of course there were the freepers who said..."she doesn't technically live in the district"....ugh!

that too was under the Reagan era...why people remember him fondly I will never understand.

[Double T]

19. It is sad that our mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers.....

work hard throughout their entire lives and reach the 'Golden Years' only to have to resort to picking through garbage cans and living like paupers. The United States has failed as a nation; this is just one of the many areas that provide the absolute proof of our national incompetence. The good news is WE can fix IT by electing political officials that truly care about doing the right thing and supporting ALL the people regardless of age, race, ethnicity and financial means. This single issue should motivate EVERYONE to vote for change as we may ALL be in this predicament someday.

[slackmaster]

22. You should try living in Pacific Beach or Mission Beach or Ocean Beach

If you want to get depressed looking at dumpster divers.

I live in a nice part of South Park which is mostly single-family detached homes, many of which are custom-built or recently upgraded from their original tract home construction. We have shopping cart people and well-tanned people on bicycles who collect recyclables from peoples' residential trash and recycling bins.

A friend of mine recently quipped that homeless people in most cities look like zombies, but in Southern California they look like pirates because the weather is so nice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Fashion Valley that is why it struck me as oh my god

and you know exactly why I am saying this

[slackmaster]

40. Yes I understand completely

You expect to see that kind of thing at the beach or in Southeast, but not Fascist Valley.

[BeHereNow]

23. People are going through our recycling too.

Today was pick up day and there was a
guy with a shopping car going through our neighborhood
this morning, picking through the bins for cans etc...
Our street is VERY residential, two cops and an FBI
agent on our one block of houses.
Fortunately, no one is giving the bin scavengers
any complaint, but I wonder for how much longer.

Folks, this is just the beginning.
Wait until the Bankruptcy/Credit card laws
hit...
BHN

[hardrainfallin]

27. I don't even have to bother with recycling...

for years now, I just separate out the cans and leave them in a plastic bag next to the dumpster. The can collectors know about it and they come and get them.

I do the same with kitchen appliances or other things that they can recycle or otherwise use.

[BeHereNow]

32. Me too- I also leave clothing and other things

I live in Los Angeles and blankets are in high demand
as the weather grows cooler.
We have many animals and the food containers
add up to a failrly decent amount of cash at the
recycling center.
I leave the materials that can be cashed in in bags too.
People must be given whatever dignity we can give them.
BHN

[hardrainfallin]

35. Yes,dignity is important, too. Maybe the most important

thing.

[Ksec]

44. Hate to beat a dead horse but

you should visit this area of the country. WE have poverty everywhere.

Im not dramatising. Its all around me and Im not much better off.

Just go to Detroit or Cleveland or Youngstown (close to me)

This will be coming to your town as more industries go to slave wage countries.

[hardrainfallin]

46. I do not comprehend how anyone can live in this country

and be oblivious to the fact that abject poverty is absolutely widespread.

HOW on earth are people going about their business without having to confront poverty every single day?

I don't get it.

It's everywhere.

Are people just turning their eyes away from it or what?

It's not just on DU that I hear this...a lot of people seem to be managing to go about their business in this USA without seeing the poverty.

I've never been able to do that, but now, it's also soooo widespread...just keep thinking, you have got to be BLIND or wilfully ignorant NOT to see it, or to be surprised by it when you do.

That part of the problem cannot be blamed on the gubenment.

[erinlough]

56. I swear this is true

my co-workers listen to me tell them about the poverty in our area and they politely click their tongues...and then they talk about shopping. It happens with politics and any "bad" news. They will do the same thing every time and I wonder if it is planned or if they are really that shallow. They are both middle income, apparantly caring of their families and children. They just don't care I guess.

[hardrainfallin]

57. wilfull ignorance. n/t

[catmandu57]

59. I've stared stark homeless poverty in the face

and lived to tell about it, I'm disabled and live on SSI now, so I've come up a rung since then. I've collected cans, I've wandered homeless through the nation, I've been days without eating, let me tell you it isn't anyway to live.

I lived under the table, collecting cans and working just to have a place to stay, during the eighties unemployment officially here was 13% at it's highest, unofficially who knows, but when young healthy males are gathering during the day because there's nothing else to do it usually leads to trouble.

Now, thanks to a congenital defect I can draw disability, and don't have to live like an animal, but I do believe these people mean to do me and everyone like me serious harm, I'm just hoping we get through this, but I gotta say it doesn't look good from down here.