I think all the worst in human nature will come to the surface as

[rzemanfl]

folks try to return from the evacuations with gas in short supply. The "important" people will try to get preferential treatment and the folks who live paycheck to paycheck will get pushed to the rear of the line. Escalades, RV's, Hummers and such are going to need a lot more fuel to get back than smaller vehicles. How is an equitable distribution of fuel going to take place? Is it going to be "Yeronyerownistan" all over again?

[Ilsa]

1. "Yeronyerownistan" defines many people in TX.

I think the mileage a vehicle gets curses or rewards the owners all on its own. I'm hoping the state will tank up anyone stranded and help make sure the stations along the way are up and running. Let the Hummer owners pay $200 in gas every 50 miles to get back home.

But your point is very well taken. You have to wonder how the directors of the tankers will prioritize.

[rzemanfl]

6. I suspect the return will be an ugly situation. The local folks in

the hinterlands are going to be screaming that they have to get all the city people out of their territory as they haven't the resources to care for them. The evacuees are going to be demanding to get home, employers are going to be looking for their staffs so they can get up and running. The evacuees themselves are exhausted and dirty.

Do they send a truck of food and water so that people can survive where they are or a truck of gas to get them on their way home where all their food may be spoiled and there is no one available to work in the stores?

[Ilsa]

20. Absolutely right. The owners of businesses where I live want to crank

up! There are lots of travelers coming through town that they could sell to if they only had staff. We have a few restaurants and fast food chains open and the grocery stores and Walmart are open. I saw to gas tankers in town today also.

Before the evac, a friend said he saw two women fighting over a gallon of water at walmart! As people get more tired and frustrated, their patience is going to wear thin and I hope no violence occurs.

I think the state should have set up roadside stops for basic food and water and bathrooms (port-a-potties) for travelers. People needed help and information and they couldn't get it.

[hardrainfallin]

10. let's be honest about it, when it really boils down to it,

yeronyerownistan is the AMERICAN way. Period.

See it all the time: even in the way people park their cars, with no consideration for conservative use of space so that others might ALSO be able to park. No nelly, 3 cars in a space that could fit 5.

See it in the fucking grocery line all the time.

I know of no other country in the world where a wal-mart (or fill in the blank other store) can cause a veritable stampede by offering cheap tvs.

[rzemanfl]

14. There are places where offering food would cause a stampede.

Things are bad in this country, no need to overstate the case. The way I see it, the problem is not the way people use the parking lot, it's what was paved over to get it and what irreplacable items were needed to get the car there. My generation must take a lot of the blame for our current situation. We all should have known better than to continue our parents' way of life and compound it.

[MindPilot]

2. A philosophical question: If a Texan in an SUV runs out of gas,

does anyone give a shit?

[rzemanfl]

7. Only for any kids in the car, it's not their fault. n/t

[rzemanfl]

8. Deleted, dupe. nt

[all.of.me]

3. they should ration it out - $30 per vehicle each stop.

then see how far who gets. it would be telling, but of course, that will never happen.

[rbajai]

4. They were asking on local TX news stations that people do not

try to drive back to Houston for a few days. They said they needed this time to make the city safe and to get the gas stations filled up again.

Of course some may try to go back home again, but that's not a good idea until they can get the gas tankers to fill up the stations again.

[Hamlette]

5. we are all pretty self important when it comes to situations like this

Rich/poor, important/"unimportant" alike will try to get preferential treatment in circumstances like this. The mama bear in me can get down right vicious when it comes to my family. Does that make me as evil as you say?

[rzemanfl]

9. I didn't say "evil" I said "human nature." Very few people will say

"we are in no rush to get back and will pay for this motel or sleep in our car a few more days..." Anybody been eating your porridge lately?

[hardrainfallin]

11. if it's "human nature" why are there places in the world

where it isn't as extreme?

[Hamlette]

12. where in the world is it not as extreme?

I thought we were talking about what people might/will do in dire circumstances. Maybe I just misunderstood the opening salvo. Thought we were picking on a theme: rich people are not as good as the rest of us.

I find prejudice offensive in all its forms. There are as many good hearted rich people as there are good hearted poor people.

[hardrainfallin]

13. have you spent much time outside this country?

[Hamlette]

18. don't know what you mean by "much time"

I summered in Europe for 8 years while I was in college. My parents and sister lived there. Now it's more like a month a year...and includes other destinations. This last year we went to Thailand and Cambodia for Christmas and most of January.

I've been around. The more I see, the less odd Americans seem to me.

[hardrainfallin]

21. Interesting. For me, international travel had the opposite

effect. I lived in Europe (not just summers) for almost a decade, have travelled extensively to Africa.

When I returned to the US from Europe in 1993, I experienced PROFOUND culture shock at how different (i.e. odd) the behaviors of Americans seemed to me, based on my experience living and working in Europe, under European labor laws/regulations, and European (specifically, German) cultural codes, standards, and habits.

Unfortunately, in my subsequent trips to Europe, indeed, the differences have become less and less and Europeans seem to be acting a lot more like Americans than they were "back in the day"--the same applies to Africa (West), to the extent that the way the American law of the jungle has taken root in West Africa and is spreading so rapidly, that I can't even bear to go down there any more. It's so sad to see the American way of death spread throughout the world, so sad to watch the good things about other cultures that we might have ADOPTED get wiped out and replaced with our ways of death. So very sad.

[rzemanfl]

15. If you really believe that then I have some genuine Rolex

watches to sell you. Rich people take more than their fair share of everything by definition (by this I mean the offensively wealthy, not people who earn a high income because of skill and hard work, but those who live off of investments made with dead people's money).

[rzemanfl]

16. I just re-read your post. Where did I use the word "rich" or was

that implicit from the "Escalade," etc. comment? To me driving an Escalade is as much about raping the planet as it is about having money.

What is "dire" about getting home? "Dire" was on the way out of town. People are not going to die if they are delayed a couple of days getting back.

I am not prejudiced against rich people, I am prejudiced against rich people in gas hog SUVs who vote for Bush and want to hang on to their tax cuts regardless of what happens to their country.

[Hamlette]

19. it was implicit from what you posed as the opposite of "important"

people. You described them as living from paycheck-to-paycheck.

If you didn't mean rich vs poor you could have fooled me.

Sheesh people. We're on the same team. What is this all about? Like it or not, some democrats are rich and drive big cars. I don't think we should trash them wholesale.

And, under some circumstances I would think waiting a couple of days to get back would be fine. But I have pets. In an evacuation situation I'm not sure I could provide for them. Couldn't take them all AND my family (since I don't have a humvee or minivan). I might have had to leave them. I would have left plenty of food and water and done what I could but I'm thinking I might have had to leave some or all of them. (Fish, birds, dogs.)

I'd be very anxious to get home. I might also be separated from my family, as I have been on river trips and in a tornado. Trust me, it feels dire until you know everyone is safe.

I'd also worry about looting. Being robbed is not fun and I've seen some fairly destructive scenes left behind.

I'd also want to get back to work since I work with the poor.

It would feel dire to me.

[Silverhair]

17. Almost all stations will go on first-come, first-filled.

It is easier that way. After all, they don't make any extra money by giving preferential treatment.

Also, with the long lines, it is difficult to get any vehicle to the front without going through the lines.