Jeb just made 12th grade optional in FL schools? are you kidding me?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

i just heard it on c-span WJ ...what does chimp think of his brother leaving kids behind?

calling madfloridian....is this for real?....and why aren't floridians raising HELL?

http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2003/08/030829earlygrad.shtml


TAMPA - It used to be that when a kid decided to drop out of school after the 11th grade, he was called a loser, a dropout. But in Florida, there is a different term for it now: graduate.

Florida is the only state in the country with an optional 12th grade. The plan was implemented as part of the state's response to the class-size amendment.

A national leader on public education says the only thing it is doing is making Florida a national joke.

"It's absolutely absurd. As I sit on the National School Board's board of directors, we're a laughingstock," said Pinellas County School Board member Jane Gallucci.

more...

gooled jeb bush 12th grade optional...lots of sites

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=jeb+bush+12th+grade+optional

[youngred]

1. W-H-A-T-?-?-?

You cannot be serious.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

6. i posted the story and link...yes it's for real

[youngred]

11. Granted you don't learn a lot during senior year

but this is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm shocked they could pass this with so little opposition

[bookworm65t]

45. My senior year was my best academically

but I agree, this is ridiculous. x(

[madfloridian]

53. There is no opposition to them here. They can do anything they want.

Don't fall into their trap with thinking the senior year is not important. That is how they are doing it, by minimizing educational needs.

[youngred]

59. I'm not

I'm just saying in my case it was a waste.

I took Government (learn the same things I learned in 7-8th grade and again in 10th grade US history)
Economics - I didn't get anything out of the course because it was so basic and the teacher was so bad
Gym - fun but not academically challenging
Choir - See Gym
English - With no final other than to make a senior scrapbook it was a joke class, and I was in AP!

I left school at 10:30 3/4 days and 9:00 on the other. Fortunately I enrolled at the local college during my senior year and took classes there in the afternoon.

ALL of that said, this is a completely ridiculous move on JEBBIE's part and I cannot believe he's actually accomplishing it.

[Unforgiven]

80. Yes Indeed!

Dumb em' down, The quicker the better! Ignorant kids make no demands they just breed more ignorant kids.So leave no child behind, leave them ALL behind damnit!

[Rose Siding]

2. The less education,

the easier to control? Eliminate the middle class, teach the lower class nothing more than how to "serve"...anyone see a pattern here?

Next time I hear a repub point and say "class warfare" I am so gonna throw something.

[elfwitch]

65. I've been thinking that too...

My husband and I have been discussing this very thing. If you eliminate all the social welfare safety nets and ruin public education you create a near slave class of individuals that only serve to be cogs in the machine.

What worries me is what they plan on doing with all the smart people who disagree with them?

[speckledgator]

3. brother Jeb

Yes it is serious! Not only that , he refuses to take the FCAT...the test that all high school students must take to graduate! I'm sure it's becuse he couldn't pass...This story was buried in the local paper...but believe me I tell everyone I see!

[Southpaw Bookworm]

4. Actually, I think this is for real

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Jebbers was thinking about letting students who had finished their coursework after three years skip the fourth, as a way to save money and probably get those pesky advanced kids (not that he's ever known one personally) out of the classroom.

[ScreamingMeemie]

10. Hi Southpaw Bookworm and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Southpaw Bookworm]

20. Hi MrsGrumpy

Thanks!

:hi:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

12. hey Southpaw...welcome aboard DU train...hope you like us

:hi:

[Southpaw Bookworm]

18. Awww thanks!

But actually I've been hanging out here for a while under another user name. (My SO knows my ID, and sometimes I just don't want him to read my posts.)

:hi:

[bearfartinthewoods]

47. and this is a problem because?????

call be dense but this seems like a good idea, no matter who came up with it.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AntiCoup2K4]

5. Well this motivation seems obvious....

Jebbie wants to clear the way for 18 year olds in Florida to be able to die for his brother's fascist empire without having that silly "delayed entry" business to worry about.

[peekaloo]

7. Good Gawd.......the bastard.........

A devious plan to get back for voting yes on class size amendment.

In-fooking-sane!

[CWebster]

8. it is easier to lie to

an uneducated citizenry.

[soupkitchen]

9. If votes don't count, why should education

Florida's motto: "Our best citizen is an uneducated drone"

[E_Zapata]

13. Oh goody.....think of all that new cannon fodder

Just in time for armageddon.

Sweet. Good job, Jeb. Your lil bro and his evil master, Dick, are proud!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

14. I think it is good if you have a job or other worthy endeavor to go into

I see no need for all the knee jerk bashing of what can makes sense on many levels in certain situations.

[youngred]

15. certain situations are rare

I could have graduated in three years, instead I sat around and wasted my fourth year basically. For me it would have been fine, but I do get the feeling that this program is going to be abused immensely and create more problems than it "solves"

[readmylips]

16. No 12th Grade: No College Entry, No Jobs..

This is not about 12th grade. It's about reducing monely for all around education, and a way for the Bushes to coverup the inability to create jobs. It doesn't hurt the rich and highly educated. They can pay for college no matter what, and their kids don't need jobs to support themselves. Most poor kids struggle to attend high school, college, and at the same time hold jobs to support themselves.

[libertad]

23. Even worse, I was told that the diplomas do not count in any other

state but Florida. I called the office and was told that colleges and universities in Florida have agreed to accept the diploma, but no where else will.

[readmylips]

31. Next, Jebby will issue driving licenses only valid in Fla.

If a 11th grade certification is not valid in any other state, and it does not get you acceptance into College, why not issue a Florida only driving licenses.

I kanno believe that the 12th Grade will become a private school/voucher issue. If you want your kids to attend 12th grade, you must pay for it the same way you do College. Continue to Kick the Kid's Behinds.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

40. this could be a major flaw in jebbies plan...other states U accepting

Jr diplomas...minus 6 credits

[NicoleM]

26. I was a poor kid who skipped 12th grade.

I got into an excellent college. I got a job after college. I spent what would have been my senior year working to save for college. It worked just fine for me. I'm not saying it's good for everybody, but sometimes it's not a terrible thing.

[readmylips]

32. My kid intergraded 12th Grade with College Classes....

and still held a job in HS and in College. I was a single Mom so I couldn't help him much financially. He graduated from Law School at 24. His HS did not allow skipping 12th Grade. My son never would have wanted to skip 12th grade either. He loved the experience, all the social skills learned, and the prom. My son was the exception to the rule; he was born loving to learn.

[NicoleM]

35. My school didn't either.

That's why I dropped out. I didn't have the option of taking college classes while I was in high school. I would have if I could have, but I couldn't. So instead, I did what was best for me at the time. Which was not going to the 12th grade.

It didn't scar me for life. It didn't mean I have to work at a gas station for the rest of my life. Sometimes people need to take a different path than the one everybody else is on.

[seasat]

17. Yep it's for real.

Pray for us in this state where we are double Bushed. Jebbie wants to let those that finish their course requirements their junior year skip their senior year. He's used the class size admendment as a reason for not giving teacher's descent salaries when actually its the ignorant tax cuts he's given to attract retirees to this state. He's used the class size admendment as an excuse to expand vouchers which are probably costing us more money due to lack of oversight and fraud in Jebbie's programs. Even the lock-step Stepford Repukes in this state are starting to get disgruntled with him. I wish we had a recall procedure like California. I'd be the first to sign the petition.

[speckledgator]

52. LOL at the double bushed comment...I love it

I live in a rural very pro Bush area...I was one of 2 heavily closeted Dems in my workplace...but they are changing their tune now!I don't think the Shrubs have nearly the support they think they have

[Grins]

19. Candidate for the Top-10 Conservative Idiots?

If I wrote the weekly it, I'd be hard pressed not to have this one in next weeks list.

[Wickerman]

21. How many will this affect?

Initially not many. Some overachievers who finish their coursework in their Jr year. However, a net impact will be that people will skat ethrough with the bare minimum so that they can get out of school to start making 8$/hour and living large. At first blush their seems to be some good in it, but thats a pretty quick first glance. This is going to really help in his brother's recruiting for the terra wars and add to the service industry labor pool. Dumbing down of FLA indeed.

[libertad]

22. It is 100% true, my kid is a senior this year and they are actually

trying to get them to leave early. My kid is taking alot of AP classes, so is not interested in the program but says that is what the guidance counselors are pushing. It is shameful.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. wait. they are pushing kids to leave?

that is not good. it should be a better alternative to a 4th year of high school, not a desired ejection from the system.

[libertad]

33. It saves a lot of money. It is not really for advanced kids like they

try to market it. It is a way to improve standardized testing scores (by getting rid of kids who don't like school and keeping those who want to learn) and there is a new class size amendment to the state constitution which limits class sizes, so it is also a way to cut back on the number of classes thereby reducing spending on teachers and new classrooms, etc.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

54. same "math" they applied to Houston schools

make the bad kids "go away". sick. and Nazi like

[Tyler Durden]

24. Sheep don't NEED an education.

Florida wants to start a new cottage industry: Home Grown Migrant Farm Workers to compete with those Gol Durned Mexicans.

[Unforgiven]

81. Yes, Yes

Yes,Yes exactly what I posted further up the thread, thank you!

[bushisanidiot]

25. Typical Bush Policy "SCREW THE KIDS FIRST!!!!"

idiots!!

[moondust]

27. I thought they were dead last in education.

What's worse than 50th out of 50?

[SharonAnn]

85. Don't forget there's the District of Columbia. It's the 51st "state"

eom

[SlavesandBulldozers]

28. idea for Jeb

why not just clear all the schools out and convert them into prisons so you can imprison more black people and remove their right to vote. It's win-win across the board Jeb, you can install your brother in the presidency and save a shitload of money!

[madfloridian]

29. We have been trying to get the news out, JK. AP needs to pick it up.

Problem is, those are all Florida papers! The national news needs to pick it up, and they won't.

People are furious here, we are calling. Problem is that a steamroller hit here a couple of years ago, and our congressmen and legislators are all Jeb's little buddies.

It is happening in CA and TX. They have my sympathies.

On edit:
Thanks for posting this!

[bluedog]

34. It did make Media....No one paid Attention MSNBC

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/963325.asp?0dm=c1cnn


“It was meant for a small group, a band of students, who were not only mature enough but smart enough to graduate,” Education Commissioner Jim Horne said. “It’s not an attempt under class size pressure to do away with the 12th grade.”

The fast-track graduation law was among several measures passed this spring in the wake of a voter-approved amendment requiring the state to take immediate action to start reducing class sizes. The amendment sets caps for every grade, including no more than 25 students per high school class by 2010.

Under the option, students can graduate with six fewer credits, as long as they double up on English classes to earn four credits and study a foreign language for two years. They are allowed to skip several elective credits, including physical education, art and life management courses.
more.......................

[madfloridian]

36. Jeb's "devious" plans for education.

He said that when he thought no one was listening, in regard to the class size amendment. He said he had devious plans if it went through.

This is why I get so upset when people here at DU talk about public education not being important to our nation. It is happening in Florida in many different ways right now, and everyone is blaming the victims. The blame is put on the teachers, the students, the parents, the "schools", everything.

I think it won't be long before most of the money to Florida's schools will be going to Bill Bennett's virtual internet schools, to corporations for tax cuts to fund vouchers, for charter schools, for magnet schools. These all have virtue. They are all taking money from funding public education.

[cosmicdot]

37. when did this go into effect? I'm surprised it's only now surfacing.

Oh, and Jebbie states: "Well, it wasn't my idea," the governor told ABC Action News.

He just "signed the bill into law"

what a nonchalant pseudo-puke 'leader'

[dmr]

38. "Well, it wasn't my idea," the governor told ABC Action News.

Who's idea was it? Why did he agree to it? I want to hear the words of excuse coming from his own foul mouth.

This is absurd! Why are we not embracing our children? Embracing our future? My God, this just made my heart drop. Tax breaks are more important than our children? Let's just throw our children to the wolves and be done with it.
:mad:

[bearfartinthewoods]

39. i thinks it's a great idea

she-bear had enough credits to graduate mid-term of her junior year yet she had to stay in school for the second term and take nothing but phys-ed and home-ec just to graduate. dumb...

if kids have their work down early i can't think of a good reason to compel them to cool their heels.

[madfloridian]

41. You just made my point for me.

No further comment is needed from me.

[bearfartinthewoods]

42. ok but i haven't a clue what you mean......

i've read your posts and all i see is "outrage"

why? kids mature at different rates. why must it be carved in stone that "thou shalt not move on" when you are ready? she bear wasn't alone back then. there were maybe a half dozen kids who had more than enough credits by the time they were done with their sophmore year. imagine having to spend TWO years cooling your heels in HS when you could be getting on with your life? there had to be a special dispensation for she-bear and the rest of them to skip the 12th year. what's wrong with taking the extra BS out of the process?

[madfloridian]

48. Another way to divert money from public education.

Fewer kids, less money to public schools, soon no schools. This is not intended to really help advanced students. It is get the ones who are having problems to drop out. Remember the rule: Whatever the Bush clan says, think the opposite.

They are diverting money from public schools to corporations, to vouchers for private schools, to unlicensed schools for the handicapped. The middlemen have been caught giving the money to parents who want to home-school their child. Over half a million this year is being spent to buy computers and books for those students in internet schools run by Bill Bennett. This is more money that will not be there for school buildings and salaries. Title I is requiring that public schools PAY private schools federal money for tutors in private schools. I posted an article about this, but no one read it and it dropped quickly.

Get the handicapped out of the public schools into unaccountable private schools, get the slow learners out into private schools. Give corporations huge tax cuts to fund vouchers whose recipients are nameless and unaccountable. I could go on and on.

You made my point by assuming the lowered requirement for points from 24 to 18 was meant for the brighter ones. It is not. These lowered requirements will result in the finer colleges and universities not accepting Florida students.

It is all very complicated, it is being done very brilliantly and called something else the whole time. It is like his brother's "clean air" proposals.

[bearfartinthewoods]

50. gotta a link?

i didn't see a mention of which courses would be dropped.

[madfloridian]

It is the *requirements* being lowered. Classes not mentioned.

They are lowering standards. This is not ok. If you do a search on 18 credits, Jeb, class size, etc., you will get pages.

Here are just 3 out of many. I am a retired teacher,and Jeb's destruction of our schools is breaking my heart. It is so sneaky, so undercover.

I posted last night and night before about the lack of accountability of our state tax money. If you search under my name you should find some links. I even linked back to archives.

Here are 3 articles from several months ago.
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/06/24/news_pf/Opinion/18_credit_option_for_.shtml

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/living/education/5528740.htm

http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/localstoryA53964A.htm

[bearfartinthewoods]

64. i read the links you listed and i still don't see the problem

this set up seems to be what it was like in the late 60s where i went to HS. career path was a technical ciriculum which provided both
in-school and interning training, combined with regular classes in math, english and social science in 10th,and 11th grade. i'm pretty sure the option was there to double up on the requirements and move into a full time training at the local co-op tech college in the junior and senior years of the required classes were met. and as i said, the only thing that held she-bear back was phys-ed and home-ec which were requirements back then. i may be wrong about that though. there may have been an english course requirement that she had to pick up too.

i'll ask when she gets back.

[madfloridian]

66. This is another plan hatched in TX. If it is fine with you, then ok.

I don't feel like convincing people anymore.

[bearfartinthewoods]

71. excuse me for not having a knee-jerk reaction to the word texas

or a divergent opinion. i believe kids shouldn't be stuffed into programs that don't serve their needs. if some kids need 14 years to complete a program then they should have 14 years. but if someone only needs 10, then they should be free to move on.

i guess we agree to disagree

[madfloridian]

72. Uh, I meant that literally. Do a search on Just for Kids.

I think the ultimate, though perhaps unstated, goal is to have "demographically" layered schools. I am looking for a long thread on this, involving a Dallas lawyer who is practically running Florida's schools now.

Believe the head guy is lawyer Tom Luce, a great Bush family friend in Texas. That should help narrow the search.

[seasat]

43. Canceling that stupid Corp tax break for vouchers...

would help provide money for reducing class sizes. Jebbie has a plan here in Florida where Corps can send money to a non-profit and then the non-profit can give vouchers to private schools. The corps like it because it results in a state tax credit and they may also count it as a charitable deduction on their Federal taxes. We just had one of these "non-profits" embezzle $400,000.00 because there is no oversight in this program.

There are also kids who have been attending private schools that are now recieving vouchers under one of Florida's voucher programs. That is taking money directly from the funds for public school.

Jebbie also used the Florida state pension in buying out the struggling Edison Private School corporation. That way he can keep up the farce that private schools are better by propping up a failing corp dedicated to privitization of education.

We've had numerous private schools scam money under another voucher program that provides up to $11,000.00 a year for special education students to attend private schools. There is no oversight and little requirements to form one of these private schools. A group of schools established by a couple were so bad that the parents pulled the students out and put them back in public school. The state still kept sending this group millions for these students even though they were back in public school.

If Jebbie really gave a crap about the students here in Florida, he'd provide at least oversight for these ignorant voucher programs. What Jebbie has done to education here in Florida is criminal.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

46. seasat...some racket these bushies got going...

the bushies offer up our children always to their evil oil god...just like the Baal demands....jebbie sends'em younger to georgie to slaughter in the war

[Kitsune]

44. Wow.

Way to flush education down the toilet.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

56. more like flushing kids down the toilet

see the posts up above: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=541589#541862

[barbaraann]

49. Check out Beach High School (alternative school-Santa Cruz, CA)

If (big if) Florida did it right, I believe that eliminating 12th grade could be a good thing for many young people. Wes Beach is one of many people who have tried to find an alternative for teens for whom a traditional high school education simply will not work.

http://members.cruzio.com/~beachhi/viewpoint.html

I have a son who is a senior in high school so I know what high schools are like now. Generally speaking, they are just a bad experience for the kids, IMHO. I know that Jeb Bush's motives are evil but this action may not be all bad.

[jiacinto]

51. This is ridiculous

nt

[barbaraann]

55. I personally know a lot of high school seniors and I can tell

you honestly that this action is not ALL bad. The social environment in many high schools is degenerate and destructive and the educational program is often lacking. A lot of schools in Washington have a program called Running Start which enables kids to skip a lot of high school and enter college early. It's an excellent program. Here's a link to some info from one college (many others offer it as well).

http://www.sfcc.spokane.cc.wa.us/Programs/RunningStart/default.asp?page=Home

Actually, my husband pretty much opted out (unofficially) of his senior year because he hated his high school. He went on to college and has accomplished a great deal in his life, including patenting an invention and numerous other things.

Oh, and one teenager I know decided high school was a waste of time for him, told his counselor that he would show up one hour a week to pick up his assignments and do his homework or else he would drop out and they would lose the state money they got for him. They agreed to go along with his plan and he is working now, getting married, and buying a house.

[dreissig]

57. One Year of Freedom

Bush has granted Florida teenagers a year of freedom from the boredom of high school. Oh, how I hated high school! Those boring classes, the term papers, the exams, the feeling of confinement.

[donco6]

58. It's more or less optional here in Colorado

The graduation requirements are linked to the earning of Carnegie Units, not actual years of school. If you get all your credits, you can leave early.

Some districts require more credits than others to graduate (we're a local-control state). But there are quite a few kids who leave by December or even a year early.

[barbaraann]

60. Yes, I don't know the details but a lot of kids finish their

requirements early here, too. When I went to high school in the sixties, this was unheard of. Also, taking Latin (barf!) was the norm for the college prep track then and I wasted THREE YEARS on Latin.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

62. Barbaranne not a waste...Latin makes people better spellers

[barbaraann]

78. Wel, I am a vary good speler.

:-)

But, seriously, you are right--it did make me an excellent speller.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

94. yu sea i node that

[madfloridian]

63. Your statements really bother me.

Statements similar to that are what we hear from those defending his actions. How do you think colleges and universities nationally will view our lowered standards?

If the masses are slowly becoming less educated, then they will be more susceptible to propaganda.

Their philosophy is "who needs all that education anyhow".

[barbaraann]

77. Sorry. I know my viewpoint can be misinterpreted.

What Jeb is doing COULD be good IF a lot of other things are done at the same time, such as counseling and assistance with preparing for college.

You have to understand that I have worked with teenagers (among many other volunteer jobs) and I have a teen myself and I know how tough high school can be for some of them. There is actually a school district not far from me with a very high teen suicide rate and for some kids what Jeb is talking about just couldn't be worse than the reality they face.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

61. jeb decreased mandatory graduation credits by 6....so much for raising

the standards mantra ...another bullshit repuke LIE

persecption is all that counts...NOT facts and truth :puke:

[jab105]

67. If it were just for encouraging the smart kids...

to go to college, fine...but if its a cheap way to reduce class size and "increase" test scroes, then thats a big problem...

Geesh, 18year olds are often too immature to handle college...what makes them think that 17 year olds are going to be any better...

[NewYorkerfromMass]

70. look at what W did in Texas

the Houston schools debacle is fucking immoral. They basically pretended that the dropouts left school of their own accord and erased them as stats. Result? 100% graduation rates. Yep. They had the nerve to pretend that not a SINGLE Houston HS student dropped out.
So what's this I hear about W having honor and integrity?
The liar needs to be called out as what he is: A LIAR.

[dfong63]

73. and Arnie says he wants to make CA more like TX!

[Desertrose]

69. spoke with a FL 4th grade teacher recently...

she said its horrible how in the "lower income" area schools the kids aren't learning...class sizes are too big...they pass the kids ahead whether they know the material or not (whether they can read or not!!!) ...schools are so underfunded...she is so frustrated- just got 6 more kids dumped into her class after they dissolved another 4th grade class, now she doesn't have time to help the kids on an individual basis.

Her take is that we are evolving into a society of educated vs uneducated- based on wealth.....this is so frightening.....
DR

[beyurslf]

74. What about college?

I was 16 at the end of my Jr. year of high school and barely 17 when sr year started. I wouldn't have been ready to go away to college. I don't think most kids would. It is hard enough at 18 to go to school with the partying and drinking from older college students. Imagine being only 16 or 17.

And in my Sr. year I took advanced calculus and trig. If I had liked science, advanced chemistry and some physics course were offered. My first semester in my senior year was a reseach that had to be 15 pages--got you ready for college and made comp 1 a breeze. The second semester was a career training paper where we researched different occupational fields for use in our college direction planning.

[NicoleM]

75. Take a year off.

That's what I did. I think a lot of kids could benefit from a break between high school and college. It gives you a better sense of the world and what you want to do in it, which might make you more focused in college.

I worked full-time that year, but there are a lot of options. Volunteering, for instance.

I don't know whether what Jeb is doing is good or bad. Whenever I see the name "Bush" attached to something I assume it's bad. But I don't think of finishing high school in three years is bad in and of itself.

[jiacinto]

76. An interesting tidbit

Many boarding schools now offer programs that allow students "to take a year off". Supposedly some colleges now want kids to bring in some "work experience" before they start school. To me it just sounds like a scheme to bring in more money to boarding schools.

[alcuno]

79. Just what we need, more people entering the job pool when

there aren't enough jobs to go around. It's not a matter of finishing high school in 3 years; that would require that you do more in order to finish. The issue is reducing the number of requirements for graduation.

A lot of kids never go to college and in Florida, which already graduates only 55% of its children, this isn't going to help.

[Unforgiven]

82. So?

Keeps wages lower, plenty to pick from, typical RepubliCON plan.

[William_WaLLace_]

83. Boo Freaking Hoo

I am glad he did this, I hope it gets worse. I feel NO sympathy for these people and I LIVE IN FLORIDA.

They had a chance to instill regime change but went with Jeb 64/36 percent over Mcbride, it was not even close.

People in Florida had there chance with there votes, now LET THEM DEAL WITH IT.

What Jeb did with education was clearly forseeable, his first four years he trashed public education, but people voted for him nonetheless. I am the one who sees daily the Jeb stickers on cars.

They voted for him, now let them deal with the consequence.

[seasat]

84. Well Wallace,

I live in Florida. I worked on the McBride Campaign and I still have the McBride sticker on my car. Also my wife is a teacher so I have first hand experience with Florida's education system. I participated, supported the better candidate, and have the right to complain about Jebbie.

[7th_Sephiroth]

93. i diddent fucking vote for jeb, i dont understand

how anyone could, the general consensus was (here in n.w. florida)that he was gonna loose, what the hell happened?

[tom_paine]

86. Madness. Orwellian madness...

speechless

[goforit]

87. They just want all to be as dumb as the Prez!!!

Next year it will be tenth!

[Isome]

88. Believe it!

I just had to sign a form indicating how many credits my son must have to graduate. The options are: 1)24 credits -- prepared for 4 yr. university, 2) 18 credits -- prepared for community college or skilled vocation, and 3) 15 credits -- prepared for vocational training.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that in allowing students to graduate with fewer credits they're creating (some would say perpetuating) a permanent underclass of under-educated Americans.

[madfloridian]

89. Aha, they are doing it. Read my post from earlier tonight.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=546004#546029

...."Called Just for the Kids and headed by Tom Luce, the program combines FCAT scores with information on race, economic levels and language skills in a supposed effort to make scores easier to compare and interpret.

The results are what anyone would think: Low income kids and those who speak English poorly don't do as well as wealthy kids with plenty of advantages. And reports show Luce's suggestions for solutions are superficial and much the same in every state....."

[barbaraann]

90. I chatted with some high school kids tonight.

They tell me that most parents of teens here (Seattle suburbs) have no clue what is going on in their kids' lives. There are drug searches every week at the local high school with drug dogs and they usually arrest someone for marijuana. Dozens of kids are arrested every year for drug possession. The cops don't let the athletic stars off now like they used too--all sorts of kids are arrested. Going to school is highly stressful and it's almost like being in a prison. Most of the kids get seriously drunk and stoned every weekend.

At the other local school, the drug problem is worse. There are hard drugs as well as marijuana. The Seattle Times Education supplement used to give statistics on drug and alcohol problems at every secondary school. It's so bad they have stopped doing that.

My son and his friends open up to me because they know that I have tried for years doing everything I can do to keep them off drugs and succeeded. Now that they are almost through the teen years they can appreciate what I and their parents have done even though they couldn't always appreciate it at the time it was happening. They do think that marijuana should be legalized because it would help with the stress caused by school. I thought that was interesting--they weren't thinking about the recreational value of marijuana, but thinking about it as a stress reliever.

I really feel for the teenagers of today. I had it so much easier.

[Yupster]

91. I wish it were around when I was a kid

I had two or three classes in the morning. Then I went home for lunch, and hung out at home for 3-4 hours until it was time for basketball practice. I would have loved to have missed that last year, or even six months and start college early.

I did get to graduate college in 3 1/2 years though.

PS - The extra year of basketball was cool, but even though I averaged around 5 points per game, somehow I wasn't drafted by the NBA, even though they had about eight rounds of draft in those days.

[Dover]

92. Got to create a pool of cheap labor to work for all those voucher

educated rich kids when they land their executive jobs.