Should we throw in the towel if Bush selects Condi as a VP?

[preocupied]

Rumor is that to prepare the Repuke for 2K8, they need someone other than Cheney for the slot considering his health problems, many say Shrub's new VP could be Condi.

I am worried that the first black president/ vice president will be from the Republican party. I really believe we are behind the times. Al Sharpton, as powerful as Al has been in the debates, most say Tawana Brawley and out goes Al. Carol Moseley Brown, not enough vigor. If the Repukes are the ones to give us our first black/minority President/VP, I am afraid that we will be in deep doo doo. Think of it, many blacks would consider the fact that their children will have a black leader to look up to who is the leader of the free world, the last remaining superpower. We would lose many African Americans. Even if only 15%, that's the end of the Democratic party.

Do we have anyone of similar stature who the Average American would vote for? Similar to a Condi Rice/ Powell who we feel comfortable with enough to push for president (No, I do not endorse Rice or Powell)? If so, who? I know we have qualified candidates but the media pays no attention them, our faces are Sharptons' and Jesse Jacksons' both of whom could never win an election.

[Dr Fate]

1. He would not dare alienate his racist base...

...the core/soul of the Bush supporters would never go for it- aint gonna happen.

[elperromagico]

11. Are you trying to tell us

that Condi Rice is black? Pull the other one!

[tom_paine]

45. Right, Dr. Fate

They can't do it.

I mean Buchanan, IMHO nominated a black woman to be his running mate specfically because he wanted it to be clear tha the racist vote went to Bunnypants*.

Bunnypants* will have to do an awful lot of "winking" if indeed his henchmen decide to run Condi as VP.

[NeonLX]

69. Crossover votes

I think they'd get enough crossover votes to make up for any erosion of the racist base. And where would the racists go anyway? A few might go third party or just sit on their hands, but I don't think the repukes would lose nearly as much as they'd gain with Condi as VP.

[loudnclear]

71. After listening to that focus group last night on C-Span,

I have already thrown in the towel. It's a scary, hopeless situation out there...America is not only arrogant but it's stupid as well.

[thebigidea]

2. Bush gets to elect people too now?

Cool, that'll simplify the whole election thing.

"I really believe we are behind the times."

You're right. The GOP is the cutting edge. We might as well just throw in the towel, right? I mean, how can any one withstand the power of a stuttering failure who always sounds on the verge of tears?

"Think of it, many blacks would consider the fact that their children will have a black leader to look up to who is the leader of the free world,"

That's right, because "many blacks" are apparently about as smart as drywall according to this logic, huh?

Shameful.

Sigh.

[preocupied]

6. Sorry, maybe I should have said

select and not elect Condi. Similar to the way he was selected.....

[thebigidea]

8. can't defend that scathingly ignorant comment about "many blacks"?

[arwalden]

28. I Cringed Too

[preocupied]

41. As a black man myself, I don't see a problem here....

Unless its take like a "the blacks" comment, which I cringe too. "Manny Blacks" though, not sure, maybe I can learn something here, is that term offensive?

[bluestateguy]

3. She's pro-choice

And THAT is a no-no with the Christian Coaliton.

[thebigidea]

5. and she's destined for that "history's graveyard of failed ideology"

that those GOPers are always prattling on about.

That headbobbing little liar will be a disgraceful footnote to a dark period in American History... she will never be VP...

of Chevron, maybe.

[Lexingtonian]

4. She's incompetent and it's too obvious when she lies

The first isn't fatal for her, as a Republican, but the second is. Well, she lies so often that many people probably haven't seen enough of her engaged in being truthful to tell the difference.

[FrenchieCat]

7. Plus, she's ugly....

Reminds me of the Grim Ripper
.....and she's asexual???
The Christian Right might get suspicious, I guess.....

Plus, the woman gets too flustered when she lies!

[asjr]

14. condi

And for heaven's sake when will she get a new hairstyle!

[mac56]

38. C'mon now -

Do we have to resort to taking cheap shots at her appearance?

Aren't there sufficient reasons to criticize her without that?

[Guaranteed]

61. But she has buck teeth!

She's looks like a frickin' woodchuck.

[mac56]

63. I'm just sayin' - - -

there's plenty of good reasons to criticize her without having to resort to schoolyard taunts.

Who among us is a perfect specimen, anyway? I'm just sayin'.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

66. Cheap shots?

C'mon, the woman looks like a frickin' DEMON. Just look at her.

..but you're right--when you factor in that she's a corrupt neo-con liar swimming in oil, cheap shots are unnecessary.

[Duncan Grant]

9. Have you talked to your African-American friends about this?

Seriously, Ward Connerly and Clarence Thomas aren't exactly celebrated by African-Americans en masse, are they? Connerly and Thomas's ideologies must be similar to Rice, so IMHO it's unlikely.

I can't imagine Rice selling that Republican bullshit at the local A.M.E., can you? And I think the Congressional Black Caucus would expose the hypocrisy of a Bush/Rice ticket. Rice won't have much traction considering the Iraq debacle, etc.

Of course, the racism within the extreme right wing would never stand for it. Nope, just can't see it happening.

I do hope a moderate/progressive black politician will come forward and articulate the disinfranchisement of African-Americans...and get elected! How about Sheila Jackson Lee from Houston? I love her.

I'd love to hear what African-Americans here at DU think about it.

[preocupied]

39. I disagree

True, the far right racists in the party will not support it, but Bush is smart enough to no longer cater to them openly. We know his silence on the confederate flag issue translated to support. We know of the Trent Lott/Rush Limbaugh racism that still permeates the party.

As a black man myself, I can see this move being brave and bold and knowing these Repukes as much as it is a double standard for them having a black woman for the VP slot, I believe they would do it to secure victory now and for a long time! They have been trumping us lately and this will be yet another win for them. They are also after the Latino vote big time. Imaging a Hillary/Rice campaign in 2K8 if we don't secure victory next year?

Powell and Rice are already in high positions, they sold his war in Iraq to the American people, Bush is smart, have brown people sell his illegal war against brown people.

[Terwilliger]

10. 'throw in the towel'?

that's an interesting suggestion

[w13rd0]

12. You have GOT to be joking...

...I would have worried more about Powell as VP in 2000. Powell and Rice in 2004, won't happen, and if it does, it'll be a stupid move on the part of the GOP. They are "known quantities" and what's known is that while Powell, though some of his positions might be broad based and acceptable, he's had little influence and he's been used to lie. Rice, she's an expert on Soviet Russia, and she applies the same flawed thinking to a post-Communist era, and it's been a complete failure. She was given Iraq because they need to hand that albatross around the neck of someone close, expendable in terms of political future, and partially shielded from charges for whatever reason.

I'd love to see it happen, if for no other reason than it needs to happen. But it won't happen in 2004. And even if it did, no, that's no reason to "throw in the towel". That's funny though.

[asjr]

13. vp

If Cheney is out, and I think he is, Bill Frist will be the "selected" choice as I see it. He would be his best fundie. That would certainly appeal to the ones in my state and some other southern states. I hope not because I think Frist is one of the slimiest on Cap Hill. But, you know he is a "good Christian man." He would only execute cats.

[Classical_Liberal]

15. Well then we could select Mosely Braun

What's the problem.

[Padraig18]

20. It's called 'baggage'.

Too much of it, especially regarding Medicaid fraud and a certain Nigerian dictator... Google both, and you'll find out why CMB would be Unka Karl's dream.

On edit: For the record, I have met CMB and copnsider myself a 'nodding acquaintance' of hers, and I personally like her a lot; I simply feel she has too much of the aforementioned baggage to ever be anything but KR's 'fish in a barrel'. She would be great in the Cabinet, though.

[Classical_Liberal]

60. Condi has baggage too

She lies on sunday at least once a week. Frankly CMB baggage is no worse than any other politician. Daschle has MBNA baggage. Lieberman's baggage is insurance companies. CMB baggage was exagerrated because she is a women and black.

[gottaB]

62. That's not "baggage," that's mud.

Google isn't the definitive source on Braun's connection to the Abacha family or any other so-called scandal. You'll also want to consult the congressional record, a lexis-nexus type database, and your own internal bullshit detector. BTW there's a rumor that Carol will be putting "the nasties" online soon, so when that happens, everybody online can see her side of the story and the documents she has to back her up.

And for the record, KR has his name all over Carol's "baggage." When Dems such as yourself repeat these attacks, no matter how gentle your allusions, you reaffirm his power to distort public perception and manipulate it to his own ends.

Let me be clear. I'm not saying you believe untrue things. I don't know exactly what you believe. But I am implying that inappropriate criteria have been used in the formation of the political judgements which you have made, or have at least chosen to pass along. When you go to the airport you realize that everybody has baggage, and even though a lot of it looks the same, you have to be careful or you'll end up leaving with somebody else's personal belongings. Sometimes things get mislabeled, or people just don't read or pay attention. You don't want to wait until you're in your room unpacking things before you realize you've got the wrong suitcase. And if there's some kind of counterclaim, hey, why not open it up and settle the matter right there?

So let's unzip this puppy and have a wee peek inside. Do you believe that close, personal ties to Austrian fascists constitute the kind of baggage that could keep a candidate from being elected? One would think, but in fact Arnold Schwarzenegger has closer ties to Austrian fascists than Braun ever had to Abacha's military government. Ah, but he's a Republican. Well, if you want to be consistent then, would you say that Ted Kennedy couldn't possibly be elected because he has close personal ties to Austrian fascists? I didn't think so.

Not so fast, perhaps? Yeah, my feelings exactly. Not so fast. Kennedy's a great Democrat, a great stateperson and politician, even with all that "baggage" in his family. And so is Braun.

It is common enough knowledge in some circles that women and Blacks (and in Braun's case we really can't separate the two) are held to a higher standard in public life than their White male counterparts. When you realize that, and regard it as an injustice that needs to be addressed, you're more circumspect in your application of criteria, and less quick to form an opinion based on what you found on somebody's blog, or in a columnist's editorial.

You know, I've read many times somebody saying in response to the proposal of Carol for President that they support the idea of a woman candidate, or a Black candidate, or a Black woman, but just not this particular Black woman. I think that's a little naive perhaps. And one reason for that is, as you pointed out perhaps without meaning to, Karl Rove. Braun didn't merely lose her re-election bid, she got taken out. Was it because she was vulnerable, or was it something she said? Some threat she represented?

I tell you, it amazes me that she still believes she can win enough White votes to win. Not because she can't--of course she can--, but because she has the courage and strength to keep trudging through the mud, and cutting a fine figure while she does it.

On this business of Condi Rice, Karl Rove is a snake. Think twice about what you think you know about what people know what to think of Rice, and then think about it some more.

[Generic Other]

75. Well articulated! Except that last line made me go crosseyed!

All of us have to answer for ourselves the questions you have raised. It does also seem to me that we hold black candidates for powerful positions to higher standards than whites.

I don't think either Sharpton or Braun has done anything to make others be dismissive of them as candidates. But if one is looking for flaws and reasons not to be satisfied, anyone can fall short.

I would find Condi a far more serious threat as VP than Cheney. Her rise to power means that the GOP gained black converts by offering them an equal opportunity to promote their own self-interest; whereas the Democrats given every opportunity to put their espoused principles into action, have thus far never found a "qualified" applicant to share power with.

Condi may not be sitting at the table MLKing wanted to see set for her, but she is at the big table, nevertheless.

I think that Condi is a threat.

[Padraig18]

76. I went through her last campaign.

I went door-to-door for her, and yes, I believe it's much ado about nothing; frankly, the Medicaid issue concerned me a bit more, but not a lot.

All I'm saying is I've seen the principle of "Throw enough sh*t and some of it will stick" in action against Carol before; it worked, and I have no objective reason to believe it won't work again. *sigh*

[Selwynn]

16. If they run her in 08, will be vs. Hillary

And hillary will clean her clock! :D

[tlb]

17. I have expected for a year Condi would be VP candidate.

And yes, pretty much throw in the towel if this occurs. Bush will never win a black majority, but I do know Condi is highly respected in the community who see her as an example of what a black woman can accomplish. Holding their nose many would vote republican just to support Rice. Enough when added to the republican voters where they can win a legitimate landslide.


"In all my years of interviewing, I have never been prouder to spell my name w-o-m-a-n than after spending time with Condoleezza Rice." — Oprah

[preocupied]

37. Although they would not get the majority, 10-20% is all they need (nt)

[west michigan]

18. the sovietologist?

Some of my conservative friends think codi will be the v.p. as well. Almost with the same certainty that Hillary will run in 04. I look for cheney to stay and maybe retire for health reasons in 2007. jeb is term limited and why not appoint him to the slot so he can top the ticket in '08. If you are looking for a wildcard not on the radar how about linda chavez. Hmm ...female....hispanic...already(allegedly) courting the hispanic vote. Worth mulling over?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

19. GET REAL!!! why do you sprew wingnut talking points here?...go away

[Loyal]

48. Cool it

I'm not gonna say it again.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

72. Does this mean you plan on shutting the hell up?

just wondering

[arwalden]

21. What "Rumor"? --- The One You're Starting Here?

Sorry, but I can't take this "rumor" too seriously without an authorative source or link. Not even a DRUDGE link? Now THERE'S the place to go for rumors. :-)

[Silverhair]

55. There have been thread on the conservative sites.

Some conservative are advocating it and there is a a site promoting her for president. Had to do a google but here is the link:

http://www.rice2008.com/

A wise person thinks about possible move that opponents may make and if possible, takes reasonable precautions. You can certainly bet your bottom dollar that this idea has certainly crossed the minds of Rep leadership.

[livinontheedge]

22. Her credibility is suspect to say the least.

My perception is that she's been caught in more lies than almost any other wingnut.

[soupkitchen]

23. The Queen of 911

The only National Security Advisor that failed to provide National Security.

[Loonman]

24. No. Because Repubs will claim Dems hate black women

When in fact we actually hate incompetent liars, and that's what Condi is.

[Minstrel Boy]

25. "Only Nixon could go to China"

Remember that? Suggesting that only Nixon, with his Cold War bona fides, could open the door for relations to China. A dovish Democrat, it was said, could never have done it, because it would have been seen as a capitulation to the communists.

I think, in a somewhat similar way, "Only Bush could run with a black woman." It will not alienate his core base - where are they going? - Rice is a proven servant of far-right interests, and it could moderate his image when it desperately needs moderation.

Regretably, I think the Democratic presidential nominee will not consider choosing a black VP, because enough potential white voters would see such a Democratic choice as a capitulation to "those people" that the ticket would not have a chance.

[piece sine]

35. Bingo!

glad to see another poster actually thinking thru an issue in terms of the way the real world works.

[preocupied]

43. Thank you very much!

Well said, especially this line,

""Only Bush could run with a black woman." It will not alienate his core base - where are they going? - Rice is a proven servant of far-right interests, and it could moderate his image when it desperately needs moderation."

[Silverhair]

56. Excellent

Glad to see someone else around her who thinks in real world terms, instead of so much wishful thinking.

[NicoleM]

26. Are you kidding??

Condi as VP nom would be a freakin' DREAM! She has demonstrably lied time and time again. Furthermore, she was the NSA during the most spectacular national security disaster in the history of mankind, and she was NSA while the admin was just making stuff up about Iraq.

If Cheney is sticking around as VP, it's going to be harder to get that across because America thinks they know who he is. America doesn't know who Condi Rice is, and once they find out they're not going to want her a heartbeat away from the presidency.

Plus, if they try the "Democrats are racist because they don't like Condi" strategy, we have enough known Democrats of color who we can send out on the airwaves to counter that lie.

I don't know how much confidence I have in Terry McA. to pursue this strategy, but we definitely don't need to cash it in just because a black woman is the VP nom.

Now if it was Oprah. . .

[Woodstock]

27. he would lose as many voters as he'd gain

his stronghold is the South, where, unfortunately, the most prejudice against blacks can still be found

and with a black woman, he will also alienate the religious right AKA white evangelical Christians (sorry Jesus, I know they don't deserve to use your name) who think they are God's chosen ones and that men should lead (and I've had them bring in "scripture" to support this view) - and without the religious right, Republicans can't win elections

and to counter this, the WORST thing the Dems could do is to run someone either/and/or black/woman as VP (although I'd like to see either/and/or normally) - when these prejudice people/holy rollers are looking for a protest vote, they would be more inclined to turn to, say a white male general (Clark)

sad to have to play the cards this way (race and gender should NOT matter) but the stakes are high and we have to play to win

and you're also discounting the intelligence of blacks and women - this administration has been very unkind to minorities of all kinds

[mrgorth]

29. Regardless of the Rice thing

I've seen a, I think mulato, congressman on Hardball a lot. I think he's from Tennessee. Comes across very well to me.

[NicoleM]

30. While your choice of the word

"mulato" was probably not the best way to say it, I think Harold Ford, Jr. would be an excellent VP nominee. Young, articulate, and from Tennessee. But I don't know if he's 35 yet. I assume he would have to be. I guess I don't really know what the age requirement is for VPs.

[piece sine]

36. Hottest man on the Hill...

Harry Ford has what it takes to win so I expect many DUers will flame anyone who speaks well of him. He's not nearly 35 yet but I've seen him on adversarial talk shows and he always holds his own. He's a comer...look for Ford to rise to the top in 2008.

[mrgorth]

47. Not sure what else to use

I didn't know they made "mulato" not PC. He looks like a very light skinned black man. I simply gave it my best shot. No offense intended.

[CMT]

31. No

Condi's credibility has been severely damaged over Iraq and various lies and contradictions within the administration.

[benburch]

32. I will never happen...

...because if it does, Condi's "past" will come out. Tell me for one minute that you don't think that she has had sexual dalliances with SOMEBODY. A man can skate by on that, but in our society, a women never gets a free pass on that issue.

-Ben

[Minstrel Boy]

33. But do you think

Condi's sex life would be considered fair game by Democrats and liberal critics? I don't. And I think anyone who did would be slapped down hard. And so they should be. Furthermore, there would be a "poor Condi" backlash which the Republicans would exploit.

It's the repressed and drooling right which plays the sex card.

[benburch]

57. Larry Flynt...

Larry could "do" Condi on her past and nobody would blame the Dems for it...

[DinahMoeHum]

34. African-American voters are a LOT smarter. . .

than many of us give them credit for.

There is NO WAY they will vote for CondoPizza Rice simply because she's a woman and/or an African-American, especially if they sense this is a political gimmick.

They can spot hypocrisy a mile away.


:kick:

[salin]

50. Wednesday after noon Indy radio show - (leading African American talk

station) had Julia Carson on... she and the host were blasting the admin. After Representative Carson left the host continued to bash Powell and Condi - repeatedly. Especially Powell. Saying things like, I once respected you... but now you are a joke (but with MUCH MORE DERISIVE tone/language.) Condi and Powell were being skewered for their behavior regarding Iraq, 911 and this administration.

Not a whole lot of love for Condi in this area.

[ILeft]

40. "Bush-Rice" sounds like a symptom of a venereal disease...

...sorry, but it does.

[arwalden]

53. Ewwwww!

That's just nasty.

-- Allen

[Yupster]

42. I could see Bush doing this

if his poll numbers didn't look too good.

I think it would be a formidable chioice.

Supposedly she's a concert-level pianist. How would that be for a first introduction to many women. Oprah bringing out the piano and fawning over her to play a little Beethoven for us on the show Condi. A black woman who speaks fluent Russian, was provost at Stanford and plays concert piano.

I think it would make quite a splash with Oprah's audience which is where a lot of casual voters can be found.

Whether she would survive the day to day rigors of the press interviews is another story, but I'm not convinced she would even have to answer the questions.

[cally]

44. She is easily beat

Play the footage of her lying, show pictures of her in the flight suit, the tanker named after her, show the clips with her lying with those dead eyes and contrast that to when she talks about sports, then the fact that she is a single woman. How can you promote her as the family values candidate when she doesn't have a family?

[David__77]

46. She's pro-choice, he can't do that.

She also supports affirmative action. The Christian Right would blow a gasket for sure.

[Cocoa]

49. blacks with more stature than Condi?

Several hundreds of thousands, I'd say.

I've seen no indication that Condi was the least bit qualified for her position, and no indication that she's done anything right once she got it.

[blm]

51. No...she's too complicit in his evil deeds and easily rattled on TV.

She comes off badly on her own.

[West Coast Democrat]

52. Choosing Condi Would Tank the Ticket Immediately

Condi Rice would be a horrible choice.

[stickdog]

54. Show her over and over saying "nobody ever dreamed anyone would

fly planes into buildings" while an announcer shows pictures of all the documented plots to fly planes into buildings, all the warnings that planes would be flown into buildings and the fact that on 9/11 the Pentagon was running a simulation of what they would do if they were hit by a plane.

[DrWeird]

58. If he picks Condi as VP...

He'll lose his core racist voters.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

67. You're assuming that condi is black..

..she's more of an Oreo-type (black on the outside, 100% white-American tool to the fullest on the inside).

[Trek234]

68. No he won't

They play by the same rules die hard dems do. They will vote for the lesser of two evils.

[Malva Zebrina]

59. Bush is not going to "select" anyone

it will be done by Cheney, or Bush 1, or Rove or anyone else who has shown to have a clever thinking brain as opposed to the adolescent minded George.

[HFishbine]

64. Interesting Question

It really deserves thoughful consideration, but a quick thought about why I don't think it would work for the GOP.

While I suspect that some portion of African Americans would indeed vote for such a ticket on race alone, I think that there would be a greater number of racist and mysoginistic republicans who would say, "There's no way I'm votin' for a black woman. To hell with it, I'm votin' for Dean. At least he'll let me keep my guns."

[HFishbine]

65. Another Quick Thought

To answer the question, should we throw in the towel if Rice is tapped. No. We don't know who the dem VP nominee will be yet. It could end up being someone more appealing to minority voters than Rice.

[AlinPA]

70. Wrong subject. Rove will pick Powell.

Sorry folks, it would be a winning ticket for the rPIGs.

[mlawson]

73. If not cheney, more likely Frist.

Especially if Dean gets on the Dem ticket. Dr vs Dr, you see. Besides, Frist is a new face type, attractive, etc etc. It works for the apolitical voters.

[Loyal]

74. She'd make a crappy VP

Picking someone simply because of their race would show how shallow Republicans think African-Americans are. It's racist.