HOW MUCH does pot cost these days???

[benburch]

In another post somebody inferred that it was more than $200 an ounce now...

Could that even be possible?

I remember when it was $20 (sometimes less), and when $50 seemed like extortion.

But it has been many, many years since I was in that market that I had no idea it had risen so high, if it has.

I mean, its just a WEED. It grows itself ANYWHERE. How could it even possibly command such a high price?

[wakeme2008]

1. CEOs retirement packages

:rofl:

[madokie]

2. around a hundred bucks an ounce.

[EstimatedProphet]

11. Where?

I thought it was more like $300!

[Mr_Spock]

32. Sounds like hyper-inflation!

It went from $100 to $300 in one post!

How will the poor pot-heads survive?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

49. DC

[noonwitch]

94. It depends on how good it is

According to the kids I work with, it's about $175 an oz for the killer stuff, $100 for the dirtbag shit.

[natrat]

3. the shit them hippies grow now is way stronger than the 1975 vintage

[benburch]

15. I've seen NORML white papers debunking that.

Simply not true. Much of the potency data on really old weed came from evidence lockers where it had moldered in horrible conditions for decades, for example.

[Sparkman]

19. Smokers ALL say the 60's weed (those who remember) was not as strong.

[benburch]

25. In the 70s...

we had Thai weed the soldiers brought home. One *small* hit and you literally could not (or rather did not want to) move for an hour. So I think those recollections are either bunk or from people who smoked agricultural hemp instead of marijuana. Of course I have no personal modern comparisons to make.

[Sparkman]

37. Tai stick was not available to many, or columbian.

Its the AVERAGE, I think, that is the cultural measure of potency? agree?

[Sequoia]

85. I remember Panama Red.

There was a song about it too.

[JVS]

71. Aw fuck! I gotta get some of that shit!

[mdmc]

51. disagree

respectfully

[Blue_In_AK]

90. Not true...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

124. Not in my opinion.

And I've been around. We had good weed and ditch weed back then, we've got good weed and ditch weed now.

Growers like to brag, and narcs go on about how dangerous it is, they're both full of shit.

Moreover, the average amount of THC in weed hasn't changed. Furthermore, THC has a simple dose response curve. You plot log dose on the x-axis and response on the y, and you get a nice sigmoidal curve with an upper limit. Despite what stoners might like to say, a person can only get so high regardless of how much they smoke, or how much THC the weed contains. Now I'll concede that THC is a partial agonist and there could be some THC homolog out there that's more potent.

[Common Sense Party]

167. "THC homolog" would be a good name for a band. n/t

[OldLeftieLawyer]

33. NORML's got to say that,

but my own personal experience, along with that of my old college hippie (sixties) pals, says otherwise.

Today's shit, besides costing so much, is MUCH more synthesized, much more evolved, and much more potent.

I would NOT want my kids smoking it, that's how bad I think it is.

That's why I keep them drunk on Manischewitz.

[Mr_Spock]

35. lol - it's true - kids should NOT be smoking this crap

It's like smoking straight PCP these days. Much, much stronger than the 70's...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

59. Straight PCP?

Um...no, not unless it was laced with PCP, which no one I know has encountered.

[benburch]

61. I bet he has never done PCP. (Nor have I.)

Which makes such a comparison stupid, to say the least.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

68. The average pot smoker just wouldn't touch PCP.

Hell, I know coke users. I don't think any of them would or ever has touched PCP.

Also, just because someone has had a bad experience with a drug doesn't mean others will or that they will again. The first time I did shrooms I experienced ego loss and it was terrifying. Second time, I had a bad time until one person left (he was being very aggressive). Third time, it was amazing. Third time's the charm.

[hedgehog]

209. If at first you don't suceed, try , try again.

It's gumption like that that makes me proud to be an American.

[Atman]

64. That's just a crock of turds, man.

You can get stuff like that if you want it. Just as you could get "Maui Wowie" and "Kona Buds" and "Sensimilla" and all sorts of other hi-test "brands" back in the seventies. It is no different now. Street weed is still street weed, and it's no stronger than it was back then. Premium is still premium and you pay a premium price for it.

Or at least, that's what I'm told. ;)

[Phx_Dem]

138. self delete

[JVS]

73. Bullshit! We all WISH that there was killer ass-ripping buds, but it...

isn't the case!

[Blue_In_AK]

91. No, nothing like PCP at all...

[benburch]

98. I've seen animals on PCP.

They lay there with their eyes wide open and a 1000 yard stare, and pant, and drool, and often piss themselves, and are oblivious to anything you are doing to them.

I cannot imagine that is fun.

[meow2u3]

140. PCP is an animal tranquilizer

I heard vets give angel dust to horses before surgery.

Vets also give ketamine to cats before they spay or neuter them.

[benburch]

146. Right. That's where I've seen it.

And it is the reason Veterinary clinics have bars on the windows.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

183. That's why I keep them drunk on Manischewitz.

:7

[ThomWV]

56. What?

That's simply not true. If you go to NORMAL's archives you will quickly find studys done that clearly show that the pot being sold today is up to about 3 times as strong as the weed from 30 years ago. There are several articles by more reliable sources on the subject. Start with this one if you like:

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/bulletin/bulletin_1982-01-01_3_page009.html#bf001

"In our previous study < 1> , which covered the years 1975 - 1978, the THC contents of 304 seizures of illicit Cannabis products, as determined by gas chromatography, were reported. This procedure results in the conversion of tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA) to tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) < 2> , < 3> and thus measurement of the THC Content of an extract of a sample of a Cannabis product by gas chromatography gives the total amount of THC and THCA present in the sample. Since THCA is also decarboxylated during the smoking process < 4> , the measurement of "total" THC content provides an indication of the potency of the material to the smoker. In the previous study < 1> , it was reported that during 1975 and 1976, by far the best quality cannabis originated in South-East Asia (in the form of "Thaisticks"). By 1978, seizures of cannabis from Thailand, while still in the same form, showed a substantial decrease in quality and an increasing seed content. Clarke <5, p. 115> also reported that Thai sticks were originally both of high quality and seedless, but that more recently large quantities of much lower grade Cannabis were being marketed. In our studies, Jamaican cannabis was found to be of considerably higher quality in 1978 than in 1975 - 1976, which may have indicated either a change in selection of materials for export or a change in the plants used to prepare the cannabis. Clarke <5, p. 109> considered that Colombian variants of Cannabis might predominate in Jamaica since the island lies along the smuggling routes between Colombia and the United States of America. That may account for the rise in quality of the Jamaican product."

- - SNIP - -

""Street" marijuana in the United States increased markedly in potency between 1975 and 1980, samples rarely exceeding 1 per cent THC in 1975, but samples as high as 5 per cent being common in 1979 < 6> . No significant rise is observed in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland over 1975 - 1978 when THC contents for all samples of cannabis are averaged, but if the samples from Thailand are excluded from the 1975 - 1976 figures, a small rise is apparent. Thai seizures over the period were of such high quality and appeared to be both specially prepared and selected that they considerably raised the average THC content of seized cannabis in the United Kingdom (see table 1). However, samples in this and the previous study were all fresh, whereas street samples are by no means all fresh. It could, therefore, be that increase in quality of cannabis in the United States is really an increase in the freshness of the samples rather than an improvement in the stock of Cannabis supplying that market. However, in view of the high quality of cannabis grown in the United States < 7> and the increasing proportion of that market taken by the home-grown product < 8> , an alternative explanation could be that the expertise of those growing Cannabis illicitly in the United States is producing a more potent crop."

[Warpy]

20. I think that's largely a DEA fiction

unless you were smoking oregano or catnip back then and trying to convince yourself it was the real thing because you just paid forty bucks for half a lid.

They did learn better cultivation methods by the late 60s, though, and harvesting it when it came into flower and before it started to set seeds slightly increased the bang for the buck over the twigs and seeds crap of the mid 60s. It's the resin, not the leaves, and peak resin is when it's in flower.

[jukes]

74. modern strains

have much higher resin to herbage ratio. it's stronger, often not as harsh, & def worthy the extra $s.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

26. It's WAY stronger

Last time I smoked anything - about 25 years ago - it was NOT a high, it was an hallucinogen, and it was NOT fun.

[Atman]

62. That's TERRIBLE!

Got any left?

:hippie:

[JVS]

72. Sweet!

[da_chimperor]

88. Advances in cannabis horticulture, perhaps?

:shrug:

[DancingBear]

4. I remember what it USED to cost

$12 for a "lid" (or "four finger ounce") but those days are years and years behind me.

I'm curious, too, so maybe (if Agent Mike is asleep) someone will post prices. :) :)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

27. OK, here's how old I am:

Remember "nickel bags"?

[EFerrari]

34. Yes, and they came with tan bark, two pennies and a nail. n/t

[DancingBear]

83. Of course! n/t

[livetohike]

102. Fondly

:-)

[kwassa]

121. Oh, noooooo, I do remember .......

I must not have smoked enough.

[babylonsister]

5. It grows ANWHERE? In the immortal words of Carole King, where

you lead, I will follow... :evilgrin:

[xmas74]

127. If you want something wild

come to my house. I can drive about five miles out of town and find it in a field.

Not vouching for the quality, though.

[Phx_Dem]

139. self delete

[peekaloo]

6. depends.

Hydro is a luxury and has been for about 6 years now ($340 and up an oz.)

I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend it's around the $200 mark in certain areas of Fl.

;-)

[stepnw1f]

7. Hi Ben...

I can get you a pretty good deal...

Yeah it is expensive.:P

[benburch]

21. Should I ever want any, I'll think of you...

...but I can buy a "new" refurbished computer for White Rose for $550 (and just did last night) and cannot imagine spending $200 for a recreational herb!

[stepnw1f]

30. I Was Kinding

Start a donation... I'll pitch in.

[unpossibles]

8. well, I haven't done it in a while either

mostly because of the constant job-hunting....

But I know the price has gone up, and that it depends on what you're getting and from whom.

"How could it even possibly command such a high price?"
4 words: The War On Drugs

As with any prohibition, a black market doesn't reduce the demand, but it does increase the price. Not to mention making criminals out of many otherwise good citizens and making a lot of others both in the market, in competing pharm. companies, and in the police force rich.

[Atman]

9. I grew up in a beach town in Florida...it used to WASH ASHORE by the bale!

Everybody in town knew when a fresh bale had washed up, because we'd all have $15 ounces that tasted like fish.

Now I'm in New England, and from what friends tell me ;) it's 200 clams, but no fishy taste.

[Kolesar]

14. it's 200 clams

You're a comic! :rofl:

[havocmom]

141. Bales used to fall from the sky south of Tucson years ago

The damned housing tract developers sure put a crimp in that with their ugly urban/suburban confusion sprawl.

[htuttle]

10. Depends on how good it is

Dried up, formerly 'bricked' Mexican/Latin American brand (ie., Mafia pot -- the 'Ripple' of pot) is right around $200. One of our fine local 'table' herbs (outdoor grown) runs more like $250, and the local 'vintage quality' herb (indoor grown) is up to $350 or more.

It's very expensive, because there can be a lot of risk growing it nowdays. Law enforcement still seems to expend a lot more effort going after pot growers than heroin dealers. It doesn't really cost any more than having a decent bottle of wine or a couple of bottles of top-shelf/homebrew beer with dinner if you work it out.

Just remember what Gallagher once said:

"Don't smoke pot when you're high. You don't get any higher, just lower on pot."

on edit:

One other thing: Pot is "just a weed" the same way that wine is "just old grape juice". There can be a huge amount of variation in taste, potency, and smell all depending on the technique of the grower (or lack of it). I've known growers who talked about farming in as much detail as any vineyard owner in California.

[MsTryska]

12. you should find out for yourself......

by playing this game:

http://www.download.com/3000-2115-10126843.html

[Brazenly Liberal]

13. Tons of the stuff grows wild a few miles from here.

I've heard it's not bad for ditch weed. But it's not a good idea to try to harvest it. This is such a low crime area that keeping an eye on the wild pot is all the sheriff's police have to do some days.

A few years after we moved here, I noticed a police helicopter circling over one of our fields. It came back three times, each time circling pretty low. We called the sheriff's office to see if there was something we could help them with and were blown off. So we had no idea what was going on until a few days later when we went to knock down that field and get it ready for an autumn planting of ground cover - it was loaded with giant ragweed, which looks pretty similar to pot from a distance. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

[acmejack]

16. Quality "Willie Weed" in Austin

goes for $400/Oz if you are close to the grower. This is for some pretty serious stuff, though, dare I say connoisseur grade...

[0007]

17. Cultivation is an art for good smoke.

[EFerrari]

18. When Doug was still smoking, he paid $60 for AN EIGHTH.

And it was that superpotent, Dr. Kevorkian, Weed of Death that smells like a Christmas tree. :)

[benburch]

22. Oh, now you're gonna make me wish I hadn't given it up...

Except for those prices! (And it's not good for my asthma, either.)

[EFerrari]

24. I rather have the real Christmas tree. Much more economical.

:)

[benburch]

28. I have several christmas trees growing in my yard.

When the kids were little we would buy live trees and then plant them in the Spring. About half the time they survived til Spring, and so we have them shading the house and keeping the wind off it now...

[OldLeftieLawyer]

31. It is now that potent, yes

I really fear for kids' brains with this shit nowadays. Our stuff - back in the sixties - was mellow and soft and gentle. It did NOT transfigure our perceptions or leave us different. Just mellowed up out. It also didn't burn when inhaled. This stuff does - at least the last time I smoked, which was years and years ago.

[EFerrari]

36. It's like a whole different drug and I didn't like it because it was

much too strong. The whole illegal part wasn't great, either.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

40. True, but we were young and defiant.

Oh, and thank you for talking me down from the Tower yesterday. I no longer feel the need to commit mass murder, thanks to you.

I owe you one, but, in the meantime, here's this for your kindness:

[EFerrari]

42. Whew! That was a close one.

:)

[JVS]

78. RAWK!

[negativenihil]

23. Depends

An ounce of "commerical" mids can run you about $160-180. Of course you could always seek out "dirt weed" for less.

The good stuff? It could run you about $400/oz, if not more. (by good stuff i mean indoor, hydroponically grown, seedless)
You probably wouldn't need an entire ounce of the good stuff though. a little can go a long way.

[Bridget Burke]

29. From what I hear....

$100.00 will get you an ounce of El Cheapo--which still does the job. Sometimes you want to relax & NOT get zonked out of your brain. Of course, you can pay far more for Big Taste. Just as you could in the old days--anybody remember Thai Sticks?

The story that "it's all much stronger today" is a lie.

[babylonsister]

38. Thai sticks -

:9 I do remember them, fondly. :)

[mdmc]

39. $260 for super commercial nuggies

up for $420 for the KIND.

[benburch]

41. That's insane.

Makes me glad I learned meditation and ritual magick long ago so I don't need that to relax or to change my perceptions.

[mdmc]

47. Well, there is always brick weed that you can get for 20 bucks

an eighth.

In the end meditation is much better.

[benburch]

54. Much better!

I think I'll go do my Middle Pillar ritual for the day now...

Bringing Down the Light of the Golden Dawn

(The Middle Pillar Ritual)

A powerful energy-invoking exercise used to bring down the Light of the Golden Dawn, the vivifying Light of our Order, into the body of the Initiate. Once the Light has been installed in the Heart (point 9 below), it may effectively be channelled outward as healing and transformative energy. When used in this fashion, the Golden Dawn Light that has been installed in the Heart center in point 9 is channelled through the palm of the hand as a pure white Ray of force, towards whatever object is intended as recipient.

This exercise stands by itself as an energy focusing work, and may be utilized by any Initiate on a regular basis -- and certainly ought to be activated before attempting any transmittal of healing energy. It may also be done as part of a longer ritual process, such as following the LBRP and the Rose+Cross Rite, in that order. In this way, the LBRP clears and purifies your space; the Rose+Cross establishes a clear white background upon which to work.



1. Stand in the Temple (or other location) facing West. (This is because you are taken to be standing in the East, source of the Light of the Golden Dawn as it manifests on the Earth plane.) Arms are stretched out straight to both sides. On your right (the North) is the Black Pillar of Severity; on your left (the South) is the White Pillar of Mercy. You stand in between as the Middle Pillar of Balance.

2. A blindingly brilliant white light, the Light of the Infinite God (Ain Soph Aur) originates far above your head, coming from the Crown. (Saharshra).

3. The light descends to the top of your forehead, forming a sphere the size of your head. Vibrate, strongly: EH-EI-EH ("I AM")

4. When this is felt strongly, allow the light to descend to the Daath center (throat chakkra).) Vibrate: YHVH ELOHIM (I Am the Mighty One of God.)

5. Allow the Light to descend further to the heart center (Tiphareth/Anahatta chakra). Vibrate: YHVH ELOAH VE-DAATH. (I Am the Lord of Knowledge.)

6. Allow the Light to descend through the Solar Plexus, down to the Svadisthana Chakra (generational center) at Yesod. Vibrate: SHADDAI EL-CHAI (Lord of Life.)

7. Allow the Light to descend further, through the Muladhara Chakra (root center) and all the way down to the earth, gaining density as it progresses. Vibrate: ADNI HA-ARETZ (Lord of the Earth.)

8. The Light of the Golden Dawn now surrounds the whole body of the Initiate.

9. Allow it to ascend back up to center it in the Heart, where it becomes established in fullness.

10. From this Center the Light may be channelled as a healing energy, through the palm of the right hand, as a white ray of force aimed at an object. The Light may also be established in the Heart and utilized as a catalyst for meditative states and visions, if it is meant to be so.

[mdmc]

60. that seems like a very nice ritual

much nicer then a bong hit

[benburch]

103. I teach it.

If you are near Chicago, I'd be happy to.

I substitute the Enochian Spirit Tablet names for the Hebrew, though, as this is easier for most people, and just as effective.

<-- The Tablet

Plus I use IAIDA (A name of God) as the Highest above those four names.

And for people who like to trip (I used to) astral projection through the Tattwa Cards is all anybody could need.

Drugs can be fun, and can be a first step in initiation (though many including myself think thats a bad idea) but once you have been initiated into how to use your mind directly for these things, you don't need them.

They (drugs) still fascinate me though, and I read a lot about their use and cultural context, but no longer really want to seek them out except in moments of weakness. (And even had I a "connection" I still am far too poor to give in to that weakness, so just as well!)

[mdmc]

137. this is very interesting

and we will need to discuss this more. peace and low stress

[alarcojon]

144. You can do both

though I don't recommend meditating while high.

[wildhorses]

66. much easier to take a toke of the one hit wonder...

or maybe I am just too stoned to follow these instructions:P





truth is I just got home from a hard day's night and my eyes have glazed over from just trying to understand your post...



thing is nowadays one does it less often and it takes less to get there...

[OldLeftieLawyer]

44. OK, here's my really uninformed question:

where do kids get this kind of cash?

[mdmc]

48. workin their mcJobs

if you have 20 buddies that smoke, you can party hardy pretty cheap. Cheaper then booze and easier to get.

[Occulus]

58. "Well, I *was* gonna get that

sweater/game/CD, but I can get a cheap bag, and that doesn't happen often, but the sweater/game/CD will always be there."

That's where. Or saving a little out of their job, or however.

Generally speaking, people don't often steal to get money for pot; in fact, the only crime I've ever seen committed with only pot involved was related to the fact that pot is illegal in the first place. No, they tend to say "damn, man, I couldn't get any, I'm sorry... maybe in a couple days or so", let it go at that, get bummed out for a while, and then go skateboarding or play a video game or something.

It's the people dealing with large quantities that get violent about it. Were it legalized and regulated, that would probably disappear as well :)

[jukes]

77. LOTS

of adults w/ high incomes use reef. some folks just don't like the taste of a double-malt...

[Bridget Burke]

84. Another question....

Where do the kids find that high-quality stuff?

There's still PLENTY of mild pot around--although the modern opponents of "Reefer Madness" ignore it.

[Occulus]

43. It's expensive, yes, but reread this thread, and note what people are

saying about the potency:

1. I used to smoke way back in the 60s
2. Today's weed is far more potent (or I wouldn't want (kids) today smoking it)
3. I haven't smoked it in 25 years or so

Am I the only one seriously bothered by the serious lack of logic on display here? I haven't done it in years or decades, but I know it's stronger now than it was then?

:wtf:

[lonestarnot]

46. Now just how do you know dat?

Inquiring minds would like to know...hmmmf.

[Occulus]

50. Ah, but it doesn't depend on what *I* know, Daniel-san

It depends on the logic of others, who have "knowiness" and "logicality".

It's like "truthiness", only for "knowledge" and logic.

:D

[mdmc]

57. this is what happens

Old school stoners used to smoke 24 / 7. They kicked the habit. They got a car, home, and kids. They tried smoking some modern herb, and it overwhelmed them. "I used to smoke 4 joints a day. I took one puff of a "new" joint, and it made me anxious and paranoid." The world changed, their view of the herb changed, and their world view changed. The herb, more or less, is the same.

There are some very kind strains now a days. These were not available 40 years ago. But for the most part, the herb remains at about 7% thc potency.

[Occulus]

63. That's something people need to understand

It's a bit like alcohol or tobacco that way as well. Don't smoke, or don't take a drink, for a long period of time, and the next time you do it (if ever), you'll think it's stronger than it was, because your body will no longer be sensitized to the drug(s) involved.

THC is the same way. Don't smoke for a couple years, and then get a couple joints from a friend, and BAM, you'll be blown away by it. You'll think it was some really, really, really good weed.

It's not- it's just your brain.

MMMmmmmm. BRAAAIIIINS. :silly:

Seriously, is it possible to regulate the level of THC per plant, or is that just luck and genetics at work? If not, might that also be part of the reason why it is illegal- "they" can't control how much THC you'll get?

[mdmc]

67. some things make the plant more potent

If a plant is fighting to survive, it will require more leaves, thus less flowers (were the thc is concentrated). A plant that has all of its survival needs met by a caring farmer can utilize its growth in the form of flowers.

The thc level is regulated by conditions and genetics (heredity and environment). You could always test a plant to determine the thc content. It is illegal for political reasons.

[EFerrari]

114. I agree. Keeping pot illegal is completely a political move.

I agree with Joanie. It should be legal and taxed.

[benburch]

52. EXACTLY.

I really doubt there is much difference at the high end at all. Humans have been growing it for potency for millennia.

Perhaps the commercial mexican weed back then was all trash though? Dunno.

I'm not likely to personally find out the difference, so I have to trust what NORML says. They, after all, are not only the experts, but I think many of them have been smoking it since the 60s...

[JVS]

80. Yep. I'm guessing that high end might be slightly stronger...

as a result of better techniques. Perhaps the average weed is stronger too because people have decided to buy more of the good stuff and not a bunch of shit.

[jukes]

79. i question

"lack of logic". government-sanctioned drugs (alcohol/tobacco) are MUCH more destructive, & not as much fun.

[EFerrari]

86. I didn't know this was a census! I smoked with my husband

oh, a few years ago. And, it was for me a very different experience than the pot we smoked in college. In fact, I used to have to put in a special request for him to get Mexican pot because the one that grown ups smoke around here turned me into a zombie. lol

[benburch]

100. I think the secret is to smoke a whole lot less!

I think people get used to the idea of smoking three full bowls as being the amount you do to get high, and with potent stuff you only need to smoke one half-bowl. We learned that in the 70s with the Thai weed.

[EFerrari]

108. Maybe I have no tolerance. I never did more than one hit

of the good stuff. So, when off to a shopping trip, Doug would always say, "I'll see if I can find any really bad pot for you, dear."

:)

[benburch]

111. People used to cut the really strong stuff with something else...

like dried lettuce or Damiana or even (gag) tobacco. Sounds like you needed considerably less than a whole hit! :-)

[EFerrari]

128. When we were poor college kids, we cut our bad pot with

peppermint tea. One lid lasted a whole school year.

:rofl:

[benburch]

136. Appropriate...

As the Mint family and Cannabis are closely related.

[ThomWV]

45. Bagweed Or Good Weed?

Anyone who thinks that good weed grows just anywhere is a fool.

Bagweed (which will grow anywhere) is currently selling for around $100 an oz. locally. This would be pure shit mexican (generic name) weed with leaf, stem, and seeds galore - just like back in the 60's or 70's. It will have, at best, a THC content of about 3%. By contrast the very best weed from that era had a THC content of about 6%. That 6% weed would have been your typical 1970 "Columbian Gold",or "Maui Wowiee" or some such similar silly name.

Today sophisticated growers make weed indoors with extremely expensive and fully automated hydro systems. Plants are forced to grow under HID lights (MH or HPS) with the appropriate light spectrum chosen for each phase of the growing cycle. Varieties of plants are selected with the greatest of care depending on the grower's end desire.

The results? Well, the acknowledged best weed in the world, a breed called "White Widow" can be grown with at THC content upward of 18.5%. Yep, roughly three times the potency of 60's and 70's weed. And what does it sell for? Right around $400 per oz. However its usually sold in either 1/4 or 1/8 oz at a time.

And how do I know all this? Every bit of this information is readily available on line as well as instructions on how to grow the very best of weed. In fact there are web pages where teenagers carry on conversations on how to grow weed at home without the parents learning (or caring) about it. There are also web sites hosted by people interested in growing their own medical marijuana. The latter generally have less reliable information than the former - kids seem to know best.

[snooper2]

82. The first post in this thread

that is 100% correct on every point. Congrats.... :)

[benburch]

92. Interesting.

Though when people call it a "different drug" I still think they are full of it... I am quite sure that the hash oil we had at college was extremely potent, and it was still the same drug. You smoked a whole lot less of it, but it was just the same. However, my lungs were much better off.

[benburch]

99. Also...

I *do* know growing conditions matter, but given its weediness, and therefore the ubiquity of ditch weed, how can anybody justify paying those prices???

[fishnfla]

134. Yeah, the crip, or cripy

around 400/oz....my b-i-l calls it the "2-by" as in "2-by 4" a couple of tokes and you feel like someone whack you upside the head with a piece of lumber.

It was all over the place at bonnaroo, kids calling it nugett or the nugg

[Phx_Dem]

53. The price varies

The farther you get away from the border states the higher the price is, though Cal is an exception.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

55. non-bulk: $20 a gram (1/16th of an ounce or so)

:hi:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

65. Depends on the quality...

Dirt weed will run around $100.

Beautiful kind bud will run around $400. Now, I am talking gorgeous shit. So beautiful that it looks fake. The whole thing just being one big bud. Crystallized with amazing orange hairs. You'll only need a hit or two. Yeah, it costs more, but you smoke less.

Life's too short to smoke shitty weed.

Also, there is a difference in the high between the Indica and Sativa strains. Indica will give you more of a body stone and a sativa will give you more of a head high. There are also strains that are a hybrid of the two.

[alarcojon]

145. "Life's too short to smoke shitty weed"

I'm down with that 100%

I generally pay about $80-$100 for a quarter, but it's good shit.

[jukes]

69. the genetics have been tweaked

you can still buy ditchweed @ $50-$100 an oz, but 1 toke of feminized "power plant" or "white widow" will couchlock you for several hours.

[benburch]

75. Ummm... Yes, the have, for about 2000 years.

That is what selective breeding and hybridization is, after all, and we did not invent it in modern times.

[jukes]

81. google

"dutch passion". science @ work!

[JVS]

70. I asked this once and my thread got locked with a comment by mods...

to behave.

My phrasing was "Is $xxx a good price for an ounce of kind bud" I forget what the price was

[Beware the Beast Man]

76. I imagine a fistful could run you pretty high.

It ain't cheap...but I don't do that anymore. ;)

[da_chimperor]

87. 5 Euros for a gram in Holland, sometimes 6 . . .

but that's only if the shop caters to tourists (like EVERY coffee shop in the center of Amsterdam) or if it's REALLY good shit. 10 Euros or so will get you up wards of 2 grams (also depending on the quality and where you buy it), and that's the largest quantity they can sell before the police get upset.

Prices for hash and scuff (basically hash made from the buds and really fucking great) are similar.

Keep in mind that most everything you're going to get in a coffee shop in holland is going to be pretty damn strong, and that many shops have so much competition they can't tweak the prices that much.

OH, and the growing conditions have a direct impact on the quality of the end product, but it just so happens that the Dutch are gardeners. :smoke:

[Blue_In_AK]

89. I think it's around $300 up here...

...but I wouldn't know since I haven't had to buy any in a while.

[benburch]

93. You can legally grow like five plants there, isn't that right? nt

[Blue_In_AK]

95. As of right now, that is true...

The governor and certain members of the legislature are trying to recriminalize pot as we speak (they stupidly lumped it in with a "put the Sudafed under lock and key" meth bill). But simple possession of less than four ounces of weed has been ruled by our Supreme Court as protected under the Alaska constitution's very strong privacy clause since the 1975 Ravin versus State case. The anti-pot folks have tried to make it illegal for the past 30 years, but every time it gets shot down in the courts, so that's probably what will happen this time, too.

Pot-smoking is part of the accepted culture up here pretty much. I personally have smoked it with many lawyers, judges, corrections officers ... on and on. In fact some of the chief proponents of keeping pot legal here are corrections and public safety officials. Whatever they do with the law, it's not going to change people's habits and I doubt that they would go after anyone who wasn't actively dealing, in any event.

Incidentally, Alaska is known for it's very, very good weed. We do not import.

[benburch]

96. Some folks on this thread probably wish you would export...

...your laws.

[Blue_In_AK]

149. Methajuana bill goes down to defeat (again)

BenBurch, in light of our conversation of yesterday, I thought you might be interested in this. It seems saner "heads" have prevailed. :smoke:

http://www.ktuu.com/cms/anmviewer.asp?a=4508&z=1

<snip>

Today the House of Representatives rejected a House-Senate conference committee report that tied the meth provisions to tougher sentences for possession of marijuana. By two votes, the House decided not to send the combined methijuana bill to Gov. Frank Murkowski to be signed into law.

Some representatives were concerned about infringing on the right to privacy. Others objected to the Senate forcing the marijuana issue on them.

<snip>

“Preserving the right to privacy is the key issue. And so, for example, if the threshold were reduced from say four ounces to something less than four ounces, there would be some point that would be acceptable to us,” said Michael Macleod-Ball, Alaska Civil Liberties Union.

[XemaSab]

97. $45 for an 8th of buds

Thereabouts...

[In_The_Wind]

101. That is a low starting price.

It's anywhere from $220 to $700.

[benburch]

106. Joan -

I am so glad I gave that up.

$700 will pay for four offsite servers for a MONTH.

I just bought (last night) a new computer for White Rose for $550 including shipping and after-market warrantee!

-Ben

[In_The_Wind]

107. It should be legal, taxed and regulated.

Enjoy that new computer! :thumbsup:

[benburch]

109. Agreed TOTALLY.

Then, maybe, we could buy some patching compound and fix some of these rural blacktops out here. WOW, some of them are like driving on a road that has been shelled!

[In_The_Wind]

113. Put an end of exposure to other substances! No more Bridge-drug problems!

Stop teaching individuals to choose between liquor (which is bad for the liver) and cannabis (which several doctors have suggested smoke 'em if you've got 'em because they couldn't tell me of any sound medical reason not to).

[EFerrari]

115. Right on. n/t

[benburch]

119. Amen.

Why do you think I send NORML $50 a year when I haven't smoked in AGES?

[In_The_Wind]

131. NORML has been around for many years. Medical cannabis has been approved.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.angeljustice.org/gallery.php%3Fgal%3D1&h=960&w=1280&sz=163&tbnid=uihPH4MTcp4HuM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=150&hl=en&start=3&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcannabis%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26rls%3DGGLG,GGLG:2005-36,GGLG:en%26sa%3DN

I hope the time is drawing near when states and the federal government can agree to make the production and consumption of marijuana follow the current tobacco and alcohol laws.

No underage users, perhaps even allowing each individual to grow a 1/2 plants for personal use.

[benburch]

133. Here is what I am discussing with local Dems for a State Law change...

I believe that it needs to be said that Illinois spends far too much money policing marijuana, and far too many harmless potheads wind up in the court system.

I think we need to draft a law change that would;

- Legalize personal use and possession, including growing for personal use.

- Legalize prescription of marijuana by medical doctors to patients who need it.

- Heavily criminalize (more-so than now) providing marijuana to anybody under the age of 21.

- Retain the prohibitions against importation and sale, except to patients with a prescription. (And probably require licensing of farms that would provide for these patients.)

I really believe that this would put the criminal element out of the marijuana trade, and save Illinois a not-so-small fortune in the criminal justice arena, because anybody who wanted it would simply grow it, and as it is a weed, that should be possible for even the worst of gardeners.

And yes, I'd legalize its sale, too, but that cannot be done with the rest of the country under prohibition without causing a law enforcement nightmare on the borders.

[In_The_Wind]

135. Hear! Hear!

I totally agree with your entire proposal! :thumbsup:

[hedgehog]

215. But if pot is legalized

what about all the prison guards who will be out of work?

what about all the police officers who will have to go after violent criminals?

what about all those people who will be eligible to vote?

You gotta think these things through. Fighting the marijuana menace is a major factor in our economy now and we can't let that change, can we?

[ellisonz]

176. Umm...

$700 where I live would buy you around 2.5-3 ounces of indoor grown weed. 2.5-3 ounces of pot is a hell of a lot of pot. The only people who reguarly buy that much pot are the dealers, and those are the one's a couple steps up the chain at that.

On average, I would say it takes the regular cannabis user (smokes for a decent buzz once or twice a day for a significant period of time with some breaks ) about .3-4 grams to get a good buzz. So $700 would keep the average user...absolutely blazed out of their skull for at least a couple weeks. Tolerance does increase so most regular users quickly learn to keep their tolerance at a managble level. Heavy users will eventually find that they get no buzz at all from smoking even sizable amounts. It's really not much more expensive, in fact often it is much cheaper, to get a bag of weed for a night and some munchies and relax on the couch in front of the television, than it is to go out for a decent dinner and a movie.

Everything is much more expensive today than it was 30-40 years ago. Such is life.

[jonnyblitz]

104. I would pay $180.00 if I were to go out and procure an oz tonight

it's not the fancy hydroponic stuff but it ain't schwag either. :shrug:

[Xithras]

105. $200 sounds about right.

I quit smoking long ago (gave up all bodily pollutants...alcohol, weed, tobacco, caffeine), but my aging hippy dad still smokes regularly. You can occasionally find ditch weed much cheaper, but decent weed will run about $200 an oz. High quality import weed can get substantially higher.

And yeah, I agree about the sticker shock. When I quit smoking in 1994, I could pick up an ounce of Humboldt green for about $40-50 an ounce, and really good quality South American or Asian weed for about $80-100 an ounce. When I hear that today, it just makes me glad I quit when I did.

[DS1]

110. About a tank of 87 Octane for an eighth of good stuff

[benburch]

112. That does put it into perspective.

And which addiction is worse for you?

[DS1]

118. Gasoline

My commute, in the last 6 months, has evolved from walking up the road, to driving 5 miles each way, to 65 miles each way. Yes, I'm looking to move ASAP. But my income has also doubled. Anyway, while my income was now/2 I didn't have cash for weed, but when my income was now*4 as it was in the past, I'd happily drop $400 on the finest buds in the North East. Now, I don't so much care for it.

[benburch]

120. My commute involves fuzzy slippers and a bathrobe...

But I used to drive Elgin <-> USX (Formerly US Steel) 84 inch hot strip mill in Gary, IN on a daily basis, so I can relate to a 65 mile commute!

[DS1]

122. Some of the most unpleasant people I've ever been on the phone with

worked at US Steel.

One guy ( and I hope it wasn't you, of course ) had me walk him all the way through an entire Windows NT and SQL Server install.

Then a day later he called back so we could do it "for real" because the last one was practice.

Some people should never be allowed around computers, let alone servers.

[benburch]

123. Yikes!

No, I was the guy in the computer room with the VAX, doing the automation for the roll shop...

And their management guys were ALL jerks.

[EFerrari]

129. Some people should never be allowed around other people.

:)

[WindRavenX]

116. i just dropped 60 on 1/8 of some one hit stuff

HAPPY 4/2-0 EVERYONE :smoke:

[Taverner]

117. 100 per quarter oz

or so I've heard

[Runcible Spoon]

125. Fayetteville, AR: $20 per 1/8 oz for dirty brick, $40+ for diggity dank...

MUCH MUCH cheaper than in NY (methinks proximity to Mexico and source-growing states?)
EDIT: if you buy the schwag in bulk, prices drop dramatically to about $120/$100 for dirty brick weed if you have a good hookup. Not so for the kind bud..you don't get much price reduction...there's really no way to say anything definitive about either price or strength, unless you know specifically who grew it and can follow the distribution chain. Most times you're at the mercy of supply and demand (latter usually outweighs former). I don't see stronger weed as a problem. Better for your lungs, and can be cheaper. Oh and happy preemptive 4/20 :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

[xmas74]

126. Wish I could help you.

Back when I smoked it was always free. Pretty little girls (I was in my teens and early twenties-I look back and think how young I really was) always got product for free, especially if they dated the dealer.

Now I'm a mom and too poor to think about it, even if she is gone for the night.

[fleabert]

130. back in the day it was...

just what the nickname was- quarter bag was $25, dime bag was $10

not that I ever bought. I had very giving friends who shared. 'back in the day' was 1988-1992.

[benburch]

132. I did recently find out where the term "lid" came from...

Seems that it is the amount that fits into the lid of the old "Prince Albert" tobacco can, which is right around an ounce.

[Blue_Tires]

142. i've never bought it

just bummed it off my friends at every opportunity!

[Spider Jerusalem]

143. Depends on quality and location.

My estimates, based on the average in my area of the country c. 2/3 years ago:

Schwag (Mexican, comes across the border compressed in bricks, high seed content) = less than $100/oz.

mid-grade (fresher, buds, not compressed, fewer seeds) $120-200/oz.

homegrown/boutique weed (super skunk, Northern Lights, White Widow, etc...stuff that actually has a name for the specific variety, has different effects depending on variety, and is essentially the same stuff you'd get in an Amsterdam coffee shop) = up to $400/oz.

[maveric]

147. Good Humboldt Chronic. $400.00

You wont be dissapointed.

[driver8]

148. Those growers in Humboldt have got this sh*t down!

When I was in high school and college in the late 70's/early 80's, I could drink and smoke pot all night. Granted, I'm a bit older now, but the pot I have smoked in the past couple of years seems much, much stronger to me...one or two hits and it's "Goodnight Irene" for me.

[natrat]

150. vaporization-it's the healthier way

Why Cannabis Vaporization?

Vaporization is a technique for avoiding irritating respiratory toxins in marijuana smoke by heating cannabis to a temperature where the psychoactive ingredients evaporate without causing combustion.

Laboratory studies by California NORML and MAPS have found that vaporizers can efficiently deliver cannabinoids while eliminating or drastically reducing other smoke toxins.

Like tobacco, marijuana smoke contains toxins that are known to be hazardous to the respiratory system. Among them are the highly carcinogenic polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons, a prime suspect in cigarette-related cancers. These toxins are essentially a byproduct of combustion, separate from the pharmaceutically active components of marijuana, known as cannabinoids, which include THC. Although there is no proof that marijuana smoking causes cancer, chronic pot smokers have been shown to suffer an elevated risk of bronchitis and respiratory infections. Respiratory disease due to smoking may therefore rightly be regarded as the primary physiological hazard of marijuana.

http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/vaporizers.html

[MsKandice01]

151. My hubby gets it from the Cannibus Club

About $250 an ounce. It's good shit though, definitely not for the faint of heart.

[CornField]

152. There's some ditch weed down the road

You could cut it down for free. :D

I guess one of the benefits of being female is that I never paid to party. To this day I couldn't even tell you how much a beer or mixed drink is in a bar.

[Wapsie B]

153. I remember seeing it growing on the farm.

But it's been a long time since I had my last toke. Even a little ditch weed would be great right now. :)

Might have to move to Humboldt Co., Ca or take a trip to Holland.

[begley]

154. Any price is too high. Think of who the money is going to.

people who profit on others' weaknesses. people who profit by others' addictions. people who profit on broken lives. people who murder in order to protect their turf. people who hire children in their distribution network.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

155. No WAY are you giving a DARE lecture! If you think pot is "the devil"

you should start an OP with this statement.

You're establishing an interesting pattern in your posts, begley.

Again, enjoy your stay. :hi: MKJ

[begley]

162. What is a DARE lecture, and what is an OP?

I'm new and all.

[benburch]

166. Definitions.

D.A.R.E. == Drug Abuse Resistance Education - A project of the DEA to educate students to avoid drug use. Problem is that it has very little credibility with the kids it is supposed to reach because they lie about drugs, particularly marijuana, to make them seem worse than they actually are, and the kids already know the difference because kids see what is happening with older kids around them and sometimes with parents in their homes. Also this program encourages kids to turn in parents who are drug users.

O.P. == Original Post or Original Poster. The first comment that began a thread, and its author respectively.

[begley]

168. Thanks for the defs.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

182. Thanks for describing. Nice summation of the DARE program, BTW.

Next I'm expecting a link to "Reefer Madness" to be posted. :) MKJ

[HughBeaumont]

181. DARE = Drugs Are Really Enjoyable.

DARE. I always found it hilarious that counselors telling kids about how bad drugs are go and take cigarette breaks between lectures.

I'm vehemently anti-smoking and I think marijuana should be legal. Hell, if you're going to make one of the most addictive, foul-smelling, foul-tasting and profitable plants on earth legal, selling heart disease and emphysema at a 300% profit, you might as well not be a hypocrite about it and make it's less harmful and less addictive counterpart legal as well. It's only common sense.

At the same time, I'm not going to insist that marijuana is 100% healthy. Smoking ANYthing regularly will kill you in the long run. It's probably the safest through a vaporizer, but I imagine brick weed wouldn't be that aromatic so I'll stick to Vicks.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

156. It's weed not heroin or meth.

I've never heard of a weed-related gang war.
I've never heard of a weed-related murder.
Most stoners are regular members of society.
Unless, you're counting some teenager, there aren't children in the distribution network.

[benburch]

158. I have heard of a weed related murder...

a few actually... Where people were burned for serious money on a transaction. But these were drug dealers who also dealt in meth and crack and heroin. None of that would be associated with marijuana if it were legalized.

Once upon a time, here in Chicago, there were alcohol trade murders. Many of them. With Sub-Machineguns.

But since prohibition ended, not a thing like that has occurred.

Unless you have heard of Seagrams sending hit men around to Coors that I missed in the news?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

159. We just need to legalize it.

The government could tax it and make some money instead of wasting tax dollars incriminating people for a relatively harmless drug. When will they admit it's less harmful than tobacco or alcohol? And this is coming from somebody who smokes tobacco and drinks alcohol.

[benburch]

160. When, and only when, we FORCE them to. nt

[benburch]

157. Ummm....

None of that would happen were it legal.

You *do* know that, right?

[begley]

161. You would have plenty of addiction if it were legal

although you wouldn't have as much of the crime

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

164. It has to be addictive in order for addiction to occur.

A pot user stopping pot tends to be like, "hmm...I want some pot...oh well."

[benburch]

165. Just so!

Look at the above thread. DOZENS of people who just quit using it because it became too expensive, or inconvenient to get. Not a one who relates any issue of dependency or addiction. Just some fond regret that they can't get it or afford it now.

[begley]

169. NarcAnon says otherwise

They say marijuana is addictive.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

170. Are you referring to NA or www.narconon.org?

Just asking because NA (Narcotics Anonymous) does not mention the word "marijuana" on their site (I ran a search) and also does not want to be called NarcAnon. Now, if what you're referring to is Narconon, then your info comes from a Scientology front group. Need I say more?

[begley]

172. It was Narconon. Here are others.

http://www.addict-help.com/marijuana-addiction.htm
http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/atod/marijuana.htm

Let me guess. More kook sites.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

173. There's no back up to those sites.

The first link quotes a bunch of stuff, but they don't provide any citation to back it up. You have more evidence in this thread alone that it's not addictive. A first hand testimony is more reliable than a bunch of random "facts" with no sources to back it up. If you're going to claim information from a study, then it's generally considered important to cite that study.

The second link I think ripped off a worksheet I got in D.A.R.E. once.

As for Narconon, here's one of many pages on Narconon's scam. Scientology is pretty much verified as a "kook" cult, so I wouldn't place too much value in anything they put out.

ALL HAIL XENU!

[benburch]

180. And real Scientists know of no addiction posibility for marijuana.

PERIOD.

In Spite of over a billions tax dollars spent to find one.

[begley]

184. I knew it.

I could come up with 100 sources and it wouldn't matter. Cheers.

[benburch]

186. You only need one source.

Peer reviewed and scientific.

Your sources are about as valuable as Rush Limbaugh's pilondial cyst.

[begley]

187. It's pointless, Ben

Every source I come up with will be a 'RW propaganda' site.

[asthmaticeog]

190. Can't imagine why.

:eyes:

[begley]

192. I composed my signature line

for occasions such as this. But, hey. It's your world. Who am I to interfere?

[Bridget Burke]

196. So you finally believe your lies?

Somehow, I'm not surprised.

[begley]

201. Yes, bridget

I guess I have sided with the lies contained in the links I provided, and am ignoring the obvious truths I see posted in here, all without documentation. You found me out.

[Bridget Burke]

218. You are judged by your links.

Provide some good ones.

[begley]

221. One of my links was from Brown University.

You are always welcome to provide me a link that backs up your claim that marijuana is not addictive. So far, I haven't seen one in here yet. Just a bunch of unsubstantiated claims.

I'll wait.

[Bridget Burke]

224. Peer reviewed journals count more than student health manuals.

From your site:

"More and more studies are finding that marijuana has addictive properties. Both animal and human studies show physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms from marijuana, including irritability, restlessness, insomnia, nausea and intense dreams. Tolerance to marijuana also builds up rapidly. Heavy users need 8 times higher doses to get the same effects as infrequent users."

Where are the studies that the article refers to?

If you actually KNEW any pot smokers, they could tell you the truth. When no pot is available, they just get on with their lives.

[begley]

228. I was looking at the line that said this from the Brown site.

'it's wrong to say that it is not at all addictive. More and more studies are finding that marijuana has addictive properties.'

But OK. It is not as bad as other drugs. I will accept that.

[Bridget Burke]

231. Which studies?

Just asking.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

235. Neither am I. nt

[Name removed]

220. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[benburch]

193. Really? Are those the only sites you visit?

There are a LOT of peer reviewed scientific journals out there that NOBODY here would call RW propaganda sites, no matter what was on them.

I suggest starting your search at http://www.sciencedaily.com/ and the also http://www.eurekalert.org/

Just come up with one peer reviewed site that says that marijuana is addictive.

Look at it as a challenge!

[begley]

204. Ben, I have provided some sites,

albeit ones you don't approve of, in order to back my claim. Perhaps you could now link me with sites that back your claim that marijuana is not addictive.

[benburch]

211. You are the one making the affirmative claim.

And you provided sites with no scientific authority. Especially the Scientology freakazoid site. (You don't believe in that shit, do you?)

I'll refer you to http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm

"The Report of the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse

Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding

Commissioned by President Richard M. Nixon, March, 1972"

Which concludes that marijuana is in no way physically addictive. And this is just a starting point. Many studies since have affirmed this. And many studies prior, too, for example the Military Commission of the Panama Canal reached that conclusion in 1929.

[begley]

216. Im still waiting for a scientific study

to prove your claim. What you have linked to is a 34-year-old report on social behavior. It's not scientific. And I'm sorry; I failed to locate in the report the conclusion you cited in the report that says 'marijuana is in no way physically addictive.

Maybe you can link me to one of the 'many studies' that affirm your position. Hopefully some of them will be after 1929 or 1972.

[anarch]

222. here is an article with reference to several more recent studies

But it may not appeal to you, as it seems to be based on debunking various myths about marijuana...so the reader might assume that the whole article is based on the premise that "Marijuana Addiction" is a myth. Also, the laboratory studies involved do seem to be from the mid-70's. Anyway, for what it's worth, check it out.

[begley]

223. omg. This is from the same source whose stated purpose

is to 'end the drug war now'. And you talk about the sources I provide?

[anarch]

229. yeah, fuck it

You probably just shouldn't smoke pot.

[benburch]

227. Ah, but it was Scientific.

It is a digest report of scientific literature. You have to follow the citations it provides. All of which are to peer reviewed studies. You will, however, have to do that in a Library, as none of them are online.

[begley]

230. All right, Ben. Let's leave it at this.

I have become educated about pot since talking to you. It does appear more on par with alcohol than it does cocaine. I may be ok with legalizing it, but regulating it heavily, like we do with alcohol. That, at least would eliminate the criminal aspect surround it. Although my one problem with legalization is giving it societal sanction. I just don't know if that would increase or decrease usage of it, but I would suspect it would increase. Not sure.

Thank you for the debate. Let's part as friends. :)

[benburch]

232. Its a Deal.

:)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

236. I'd trust a peer-revied study from 1929 more than a non-cited weblink...

claiming to be backed up by "many studies" with no source for those studies. So would every teacher and professor in the world worth half their salt.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

234. Benburch is right...

use a peer-reviewed, scientific site. Don't expect anybody on this board to respect a scientology front group as fact.

ALL HAIL XENU! Sorry, couldn't resist, but it is a good example as to why one shouldn't rely on Scientology for "facts."

[benburch]

171. And they know this how?

Sorry, but 12-steppers are not scientists. They are not EVEN particularly good at getting people off whatever substance they claim to get people off of!

Go watch the Penn & Teller "Bullshit!" episode from the second season on this topic.

12-step is BULLSHIT!

None of the scientific data says that it is addictive whatsoever.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

174. Not NarcAnon, Narconon.

It's a Scientology group...googling "Narconon" and "fraud" gives you 186,000 results.

[ellisonz]

177. Tom Cruise?

Is it really you?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

179. Maybe he brought Katie here too? We can convert her back. nt

[da_chimperor]

210. That's 100% BS. I've got evidence to the contrary.

Usage and sale of Marijuana is decriminalized in Holland (but not growing it, which the police do fight somewhat). The link below disproves your statement. Take a look:

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm

0wn3d.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

185. The same aggument was used by people who wanted to keep...

...Prohibition.

What is your opinion about the 21st Amendment (the one that ended Prohibition)?

You may answer that question after you answer this one and this one (the latter of which was answered with a non-answer).

Hmmm, I see you have already answered this one.

[begley]

188. The 21st Amendment was a good thing.

Sounds like marijuana is more dangerous, though. A small amount of alcohol doesn't give you a buzz or impair you. Can the same be said for pot?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

195. The ONLY dangers of marijuana come from the fact that is is illegal

which makes your first post in this thread a circular argument.

"A small amount of alcohol doesn't give you a buzz or impair you"??? You can't be serious. Tell that to the cops when they catch you driving after drinking three beers.

[anarch]

197. now, now...that's not strictly true

one time I tripped over a marijuana plant, and really scraped up my shin! You can't tell me that stuff's not dangerous.

[begley]

206. I never said the only dangers were illegality.

Did you read my first post on this issue? As for three beers, I hardly consider that a small amount. I would call one beer a small amount.

[asthmaticeog]

189. Yeah, no.

I think you're thinking of coke, meth, yadda yadda. Pot's network is far more benign that what you've characterized.

Farmer ==> big dealer ==> little dealer ==> bong-blowing dullard. It's very simple, almost no gunplay except for the rifles the farmers brandish to keep heads off their land and the artillery the feds use when they raid someone. And since pot isn't clinically addictive, there's no "profit by others' addictions." As for profit on others' weaknesses, that characterizes I'd say 90% of legally legitimate profit, as well. And "broken lives?" I guess if you count jam bands, I might give you that one, but if not, that's sky-high horseshit.

[begley]

191. Im learning that pot seems to be more benign than other drugs

But not addictive? Check out Ricky Williams' story today. Why would a guy sacrifice millions of dollars and an NFL contract over pot?

[benburch]

194. Some people are just not right in the head, ya know?

Messed-up people have no impulse control. Same people get themselves screwed up with sex, too, but nobody will claim that is addictive.

[begley]

198. Ricky may be screwed up in the head

but that won't keep you out of the NFL. Testing positive for pot four times in a row, will.

[Bridget Burke]

200. Playing in the NFL is more likely to cause permanent physical damage....

Than smoking marijuana.

[begley]

202. That is true.

But are we really talking about dislocated shoulders and torn up knees in this thread?

[Bridget Burke]

217. No, we're talking about the price of maryjane, boo, weed, grass, etc.

You brought up "Reefer Madness."

[benburch]

205. Right. And you do that because you have no impulse control.

Not because weed is addictive in any way!

Messed up people self-medicate. That's a scientific fact.

Have you ever know a Schizophrenic person? Most of them chain smoke cigarettes. The reason they do this is not that nicotine is addictive, though it is, but because it actually treats their symptoms in a mild way. (This was only fully understood in the last decade,)

Some messed up people, especially bipolar depressives find that Marijuana takes the edge off the low spots, and so they use it heavily when they are crashing. In reality they should submit to modern psychiatric treatment, which is much more effective, but they won't because of the stigma associated with it.

Some people with Borderline Personality Disorder also self-medicate with Marijuana.

Both of these are well established behaviour patterns. You can look them up!

[begley]

208. OK. I'll go with that.

But how do you know which came first for Ricky? That he was screwed up enough to throw away an NFL career and used pot to medicate himself.....or that pot screwed him up enough to make him throw away an NFL career?

[benburch]

213. Zero evidence that marijuana can mess you up like that, though.

See the citation I mentioned in reply to you above. Read the whole report...

[anarch]

203. lots of people claim that sex is "addictive"

The same can be said of DU, for that matter...and weed, and television, and talking on the phone, and all sorts of stuff that isn't actually, medically addictive (like heroin, or alcohol, or cigarettes).

[benburch]

207. OK... I should have been more specific...

No reasonable person claims that.

[Bridget Burke]

199. You still have a lot to learn....

Whose story?

[asthmaticeog]

219. Hmmm, decades of clinical evidence vs. one football player.

Which way to go...

Here's a possibility - he might be an idiot seperately from being a stoner.

[Skittles]

175. OMG, 20 BUCKS!!!

back when DEA was just the first three letters in the word DEAL!!! :D

[Starbucks Anarchist]

178. Too damn much.

:mad:

[anarch]

212. I think there are two factors you have to consider here

1. The relative value of the dollar over time (e.g. $20.00 in, say, 1967 is probably at least $100.00 in current real value, or around $300.00 if you use the GDP as a scale)

and

2. The amount of cultivation that goes into the kind of boutique pot that sells for upwards of $300 an ounce...or at least that's the rationalization you'd get from the people who brought it to market. It's expensive because the market supports it at that value, just like organic, gourmet produce of any kind. I can't believe how much people pay for shiitake mushrooms, either.

[benburch]

214. I almost went into business as a mushroom famer.

But them my Mom passed away and they sold the farm, and I had no barn to set up in.

[Bridget Burke]

225. Yes, inflation caused most of the price increase.

"Regular" pot has not gotten stronger.

Big Bucks pay for Big Taste. 'twas ever thus.

[benburch]

233. I guess I'm just a whole lot more broke than I was then...

Ah! The travails of being a Liberal Media Guy!

Everybody wants Liberal Media, but the people with the money won't support it, and the biggest supporters I have are people who really shouldn't give me as much as they do because they are poor, too.

[norml]

226. The late 70s Columbian that cost $40 per oz. was slightly better than...

the early 70s Mexican that cost about $15 per oz.

The "Columbian" has become more expensive over time, until now it's about $180 per oz.

Meanwhile people have caught on that it's possible to grow pot that has the potency of the Asian pot and hash, that's always been sometimes available.

The homegrown pot that's like the Asian pot is sometimes available here for about $400 per oz.

Of course in Nebraska, there's always ditch weed.

That's free, and terrible.