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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:20 PM
Original message
My Daughter has an UNKNOWN Virus
Edited on Sat Feb-21-04 01:29 PM by JCMach1
My wife (CLYRC) and I are very worried about our youngest daughter she is in the hospital. In fact, I am only at home because our oldest daughter also has to be taken care of...

Our 5 year old has come down with some very scary symptoms over the past couple of days...

It started as what looked like just an irritated rash around her lips. It had spread a little yesterday and we kept her on bed rest all day thinking that a recent exposure to the Chickenpox might be to blame.

Today, it looks like she has had acid poured on parts of her body with definite blisters and peeling skin in some areas. She is in extreme pain from it as well. She now, also, has developed a low-grade fever.

She had the vaccine and it's definitely not chicken pox or shingles.

Stuck here, I have been pouring through medical material in hopes of seeing something similar.

The only other possible piece to the puzzle is that she and a few of her friends found a dead rat about 10 days ago. She says she didn't touch it, but an older boy picked it up by the tail and buried it.

Could it be monkeypox?

If you could send some good karma our way... we need it right about now...

I am very scared, she has never been in the hospital before!
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh JCMach you have them all....My thoughts go with you. Your
poor little baby. Please update us as soon as possible. I will be worrying and hoping for the best.

Hugs,Laura
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Get her to the hospital.
Don't mess around. Let the pros figure it out.

As a matter of fact, take her to the closest medical school hospital emergency room. Better interns, Better residents. Better pathology departments.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. We are in the UAE...
that makes things worrisome as well...

We have had good basic care since we have been here, but we have not had to utilize a hospital or anything major.
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Dirty Hippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think you should take her to the emergency room
I'm no medical expert but raised two kids. Better safe than sorry.

Good Luck.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Sorry I didn't clarify... she is in the Hospital
I just came home to put my 8 year old to bed.
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SaddenedDem Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Karma, prayers, pleadings to a higher being
Anything I can think of is coming your way!!!

Please keep us posted as you can. You are in our hearts, our thoughts and our prayers.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Much karma your way right now! Keep us posted.
Jerald, please stay in close touch about this. Best to Crystal as well.
Prayers going up.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. sending positive vibes
:hug:
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Dirty Hippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. Keep on researching
You need to stay proactive. Doctors do not know everything. If you suspect something, pressure the docs to test for it.
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Dirty Hippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. BTW
Most teaching hospitals (and others?) have medical libraries with access to research not available to the public. I'm talking about on the web. Ask if there is a library. If so go there to do your research.

We helped our son this way.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hmm...
"It started as what looked like just an irritated rash around her lips. It had spread a little yesterday and we kept her on bed rest all day thinking that a recent exposure to the Chickenpox might be to blame."

This sounds like it could be an infection or allergic reaction to something she ingested. This could be a food she ate or perhaps something she touched that was diseased and then touched her mouth.

"She had the vaccine and it's definitely not chicken pox or shingles."

Vaccines are not 100% effective, it is known that there are always cases of patients becoming infected with a disease that they were previously inoculated against.

Sending prayers to your daughter and family.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. We took her to the emergency room this morning
and the Dr. decided to treat it as severe allergic reaction and gave medication. We medicated her of course and she got progressively worse as the day wore on.

There were no known environmental factors for such an allergic reaction. Plus, she has never been allergic to ANYTHING.

She doesn't even get seasonal allergies.

We took her into the hospital late Saturday afternoon our time and they admitted her.

Even worse to finding out anything positive soon... It's NEW YEAR's Day here... :(
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I see
"Dr. decided to treat it as severe allergic reaction and gave medication. We medicated her of course and she got progressively worse as the day wore on."

It's highly probable she could have had a secondary allergic reaction to the medication. Hopefully they took her off those meds and gave her something else. Do you know what she was given?

"Plus, she has never been allergic to ANYTHING."

Allergies tend to develop as grow older so it is still a possibility.

Hope she gets well soon.
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Flaxbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Sometimes, too, vaccines can "clash" with
previously acquired immunities and cause allergic reactions/ anaphylactic shock.

Which vaccine did she have, and when? Had she been exposed to chickenpox before she got the vaccine (if that's what she received)?
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. my thoughts are with you and yours
My prayers are going out to your daughter for her complete recovery soon.

I heard yesterday that there is apparently some research into the Black Death plague, and a book is coming out which talks about the plague coming from a virus, not the presumed source.

since this was spread by rats, perhaps there is a connection?

I don't remember the author, but the book is titled The Black Death and it will be published by Wiley, I think.

I'll google to see if I can find any info about it.

maybe others on this list can also think of more common remedies, in conjunction with modern medicine, which can help someone shore up her immune system, too.

anything that helps...

offhand, I think of Vit. C, coenzyme q-10, as adjuncts to medicinal treatment.

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Lizz612 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
33. Plague spread by fleas on rats.
Edited on Sat Feb-21-04 03:33 PM by Lizz612
The plague usually showed up as black spots (hence black death) and those spots appeared in hairy areas of the body where the fleas took up residence.

ps. I'm just a student, I want to be a doctor but I am not yet one, my avatar is hopeful thinking.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
55. new research questions old assumptions
...I'm not even a student, but I had read about this earlier...

good luck with your studies, btw.

I also read that some British scientists tested some of the victims of the black plague that they disinterred and found that very few of them actually had the bubonic plague dna present.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/blackdeath_010730.html

History books have long taught the Black Death, which wiped out a quarter of Europe's population in the Middle Ages, was caused by bubonic plague, spread by infected fleas that lived on black rats. But new research in England suggests the killer was actually an Ebola-like virus transmitted directly from person to person.

The Black Death killed some 25 million Europeans in a devastating outbreak between 1347 and 1352, and then reappeared periodically for more than 300 years. Scholars had thought flea-infested rats living on ships brought the disease from China to Italy and then the rest of the continent.

But researchers Christopher Duncan and Susan Scott of the University of Liverpool say that the flea-borne bubonic plague could not have torn across Europe the way the Black Death did.

"If you look at the way it spreads, it was spreading at a rate of around 30 miles in two to three days," says Duncan. "Bubonic plague moves at a pace of around 100 yards a year."
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ott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. Sounds like it could be a strain of HerpesVirus....
Today, it looks like she has had acid poured on parts of her body with definite blisters and peeling skin in some areas. She is in extreme pain from it as well. She now, also, has developed a low-grade fever.

... Which chickenpox and shingles are both strains. And which, can both pop up at any time, if the immune system takes a hit or whatever, you never get rid of the virus once you've gotten it. The chicken pox vaccine does wear off too, so it is a possibility.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sounds like a possible chemical or radiation exposure to me.
I worked for a major nuke corp evaluating medical claims breifly.

You need to check the area where she was playing. Is it "landfilled" -- one nuke plant in New England used fill from a nuke plant to build a little league field - and there was radionucleides discovered in it.

Just one batch touched and then on the hands in dirt or waste metals, etc. might do it - from either cemicals, pesticides or nuke waste matter.

You also need to find the kids who were with her and expecially the kid who found the rat. Maybe you can have the rat tested if you can find it.

Find that kid who had the rat.

Also whatever authorities in your residential area should be cjecked in with once you know exactly where she was (you should look and see if there is unusual coloration or junk or metal drums, etc. near the site - and see what they know about it.

She was obvioulsy exposed to something - but it seems more chemical/rdiological than biological to me.

My prayers and thoughts are with you.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. PS - Strengthening her immune system is really important
the body can heal many many things, but she needs to be well-hydrated with immune boosting foods and anti-oxidents - stuff like omega threes and sixes, blueberries, garlic, minerals, aloe (externally).

Since it seems like this was absorbed through her skin or orally, she probably needs some good internally cleansing nutritional stuff - strong chicken soup. Cayenne is good but may be too spicy.

Herbs include Golden Seal, Myrrh internally and possibly well diluted tea treea oil.

I am not a doctor, but I worked with many and have a bit of experience with research on helping with radiation harm.

I do recommend blueberries mixed well with yoghurt and I like maple syrup in it.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. She had blueberries for lunch today
:)

She is the child who has always eaten well and been above average in health.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. No radiation... the site was pure desert until 1997
Chemicals??? distant possibility and unlikely because of the progression. From my limited knowlege, I think most exposures would manifes damage within 24 hrs. and would then be unlikely to spread.

He favorite play area is the side garden which appears to be pure desert sand with garden soil around the drip irrigation plantings.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Could be in the water - irrigation - chemicals?
Just a thought. It is obviously best to check all the possibilities. The soil used in construction (fill) could be a problem and deserts near construction often get fill too.

What killed the rat?
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Bossy Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. All the karma I got is on the way
In the meantime, consider researching/testing for lupus
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Thtwudbeme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. This sounds exactly like what a friend of mine's
child had...he was 6 at the time. The main difference was that the rash started on his cheeks-

The virus that he had was Fifth Disease.

I sent you a PM

Stephanie
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Brazosboomer Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yep
http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/bacterial_viral/fifth.html

Here's some pictures and info on Fifth Disease. I thought the same thing when I read your description. I got it while teaching elementary school. Luckily, it's irritating but not serious. I broke out in sunlight for six months. Itched like the dickens!

Sending good thoughts your way.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. A definite maybe. The pictures do look something like
some parts of the rash. However, there are also sporadic blisters (maybe 1/4 to 1/5 an inch in diameter and filled with clear fluid)...

Those seem to burst relatively quickly leaving a crusty sore.

Also, the skin is acutally peeling (like a severe sunburn) on her back.

We haven't been in the sun without cover for over a week.
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silverlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. My thoughts are with you...
and I hope she is well and home soon.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Fifth's Disease
that was my first thought, too.

My oldest child became infected with fifth's when we were living in Belgium, and the low-grade fever and mention of chicken pox sound the same.

My son had lots of small bumps, though, not open burn-like sites.

It is so difficult when your child gets sick, especially one so young, when it's hard for them to explain the way they feel.

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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. Love, prayers and good karma
coming to you and your family. :hug:

Keep us posted.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. Your family will be in my thoughts....
my computer is VERY slow (so is my connection), I probably couldn't get very far trying to help search, but here is a source I used to use for medical info. I worked in a medical center, and this resource searches medical journals.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. I'm so sorry...
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
29. Is it SSSS?
Staphylococcal Scalded Skin Syndrome? It occurs primarily in children, and sounds very similar to what you are describing. I pm'd you a bunch of info.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. After checking this out... it really could be
The good news is she is getting an IV and a broad spectrum anti-biotic already.

That should stop it if it is SSSS.

I will give everyone an update tomorrow.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
31. Sendin' some good karma ya'lls way...
.....so sorry to hear this. :pals: :loveya:
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darkstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
32. Along with heart felt wishes for
both a speedy recovery and peace of mind for your family, here's a shout out to the AMAZING DU braintrust and spirit of helpfulness. Inspiring!

Hope your daughter gets well very soon.
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Lizz612 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
34. Good vibes to the little one!
:hug: I hope you and the doctors can figure out what it is so that she can start getting better.
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. Much love to your family, JC
My thoughts are with you. Good luck!
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Snow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
38. Your friendly epidemiologist thinks the 5th disease is the first thing
to check - that's what popped into my mind as well. Lotta times this gets missed because it's unusual. It's a parvovirus, not much you can do except symptom support. But she'll be okay.

Plague is highly unlikely.

The allergy thing is a possibility, or some kind of toxicity given the rash starting around the mouth. Not necessarily that she ate anything she shouldn't have, but maybe she touched something and then touched her mouth without washing hands.

A final remote possibility that looks something like what you're describing is another sort-of virus, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. It's a rickettsial disease, but you said you live in a desert area, and I don't think there's Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever in such an area, since it's tick-vectored.

Go with the 5th disease....that looks like the best bet, and check the other less likely candidates, treat them too if you're unsure.
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. What about SSSS?
Staphylococcal Scalded Skin Syndrome? That's what it sounds like to me. :shrug:
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Snow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Yeah, sorry - thought I had included that under 'and the rest'
frankly, don't know enough about it to really say much more than what you did....
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
39. My thoughts are with you, JC


My mark from the website of the University of Kansas

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populistmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
40. No idea, but thoughts and prayers for your little girl.
:hug:
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
42. I'll keep her and you and all of your family in my thoughts.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
43. Positive vibes coming your way!
and one of these too :hug:
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Mass_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
44. I'm very sorry
I hope that she will be fine. Good karma and vibes to you.


Hugs,

Dave
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Crewleader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
45. I am so sorry to hear this...
You all are in my prays JCMach1 & Clyrc. :hug:
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LuLu550 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
46. More good thoughts and prayers coming your way
:hug:
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
47. It's now morning over here and I will head back to the hospital
this morning. I already talked to my wife and the rash has spread more.

Thanks for all the help and I will update everyone when I return home this evening. :(
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Snow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Oh! You're living in the UAE?
Edited on Sat Feb-21-04 11:01 PM by Snow
Crapparino, I'd been basing my epidemiologic thoughts on an assumption of US southwest residence. Apologies. My list of strong possibles still stands, but I'll need to check to see what else might be out there.

on edit: Okay, I went to the CDC's traveler site, & there wasn't anything listed for the Mid-east that would look like what she's got and that we haven't mentioned. I think you can cross the Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever all the way off the list (thankfully, I've only seen a few cases & it's nasty). Hang in there!
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SaddenedDem Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #47
53. Kicking for today's update
Our thoughts are with you JC!
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. keeping your daughter in our thoughts, JCMach1
hope you arrived at the hospital to find good news.
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
49. I'm adding my prayers and good karma to all the rest -
Hugs to your little one, and my thoughts with you and CLYRC :hug:
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annagull Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
51. Aw, JMach, sending good karma and prayers your way
Also, reading through the posts, looks like some DUers might be able to help figure this out. Hang in there, she is going to be just fine. :grouphug:
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
52. JCM? Any late word from the hospital?
I have my fingers crossed. BTW, is this a UAE hospital? Do you have confidence in them and the care they are giving your daughter?
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KeepHopeAlive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
56. Sending good karma
There is nothing worse than feeling helpless and overwhelmed while our children suffer. I hope today brings good news.

A big hug for your family. :grouphug:

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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
57. Thanks for the good karma... I posted an update
on a new thread...

It looks like she may have stabilized.
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