So my ex wants to put three family pets to sleep because it would be easier to sell the house.

[jobycom]

A 17 year old cat and two fifteen year old dogs the kids love. She's decided it would be easier to sell the house without them there so she wants to put them to sleep. Meanwhile she's just adopted a cute little long-haired Chihuahua that of course would survive the needle, since it's the one creature in the house that seems to like her.

I don't really know what to do. This is one of the most insane and heartless people I've ever met, and any argument I made fell on deaf ears, including the argument that the kids would be shattered and would never respect her again. I don't think any vet would pet a healthy animal to sleep like that (not sure they wouldn't, though), but now I'm worried about what else she could do to them. As to whether she'd do it, she definitely has it in her, but I don't know if she will without someone approving of her doing it.

Just one more thing in my life to worry about. :(

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. :^o That's just evil!!!

[BurtWorm]

2. And she's their mother?

That's something an evil stepmother is supposed to do.

[redqueen]

3. She's either fucking with you or just fucking stupid.

No vet is going to just put a healthy animal down.

The worst she can do is just dump the animals at a shelter or out in public somewhere... I had an ex attempt to do the same when we split up. I ended up taking them with me instead.

[jobycom]

12. Neither.

She's not Einstein, but she's a long way from Sarah Palin, too. And she's not fucking with me, I know that tone from her others.

She's neurotic and slightly sociopathic, and thinks she's the normal one.

[KamaAina]

21. "Slightly" sociopathic?

In that case, Glenn Beck is "slightly" neurotic. :eyes:

[jobycom]

53. I had a fully sociopathic brother.

Believe me, there is a horrifying gap between slightly and actually.

[Rosie1223]

4. That's just terrible!

Is there a member of her family (someone who's opinion she values) that you can enlist to talk her her out of it? I can imagine that would hit children hard -- first moving and also losing the family pets.

[jobycom]

6. I suspect her parents are the ones who gave her the idea.

They were out here for a couple of weeks, and I noticed the change coming over her. She's an insecure person who was basically emotionally abused by them, and was extremely unpopular in school. Because of that, she's easily influenced by anyone who tells her nice things, and she's conversely (or maybe not conversely) borderline sociopathic. Bad combination. I watched her father kill a dog he had grown tired of once when we were teenagers--he just dashed it's head against a brick. Very unpretty memory.

It's the kind of thing she would think up on her own, and then justify by blaming someone else--this time it was the kids for not helping her clean the house. Apparently we have the first teenager ever who doesn't clean the litterbox the first time asked, so the dogs must die. But I don't think she'd follow through with it without someone reinforcing the idea, and it sounds exactly like what her parents would say.

And part of it would be vindictiveness against me, and the kids. Sort of a "See what you made me do?" moment for the kids (and yeah, the worst part of it all is she would tell the kids it was their fault), and a "Screw you" statement to me, who is an animal lover. No particular reason, just a power play on her part.

Maybe now that her parents are back home she'll calm down about it. And I have a few threats up my sleeve if she mentions it again. I'm worried about her doing it without warning, though. I'm sure she could find a poison somewhere around the house. She's threatened to feed them anti-freeze before.

[rcrush]

8. Your ex-wife reminds me of my mom.

She wondered why I stopped talking to her and didn't tell them where I lived once I moved out. She seemed to be the same type of person you describe your ex-wife to be.

[Mopar151]

9. Thats verbal abuse and bullying, of you and the kids

My SIL has pulled this crap.

[Rosie1223]

11. I suppose it's too much to hope that she sees a therapist.

You know her and can probably tell best if she is willing to carry out these threats. Keep records of her behavior in case you need to see your divorce judge again -- you probably do this already, though.

Sorry you're having a rough time of it.

[jobycom]

13. Actually that's good advice.

I haven't been doing that. We don't have a divorce judge yet. We've been separated for five years and haven't bothered divorcing, because it's made things with the kids easier. We had planned to just do an uncontested divorce, since we long ago divided up property and bills. Now she wants to undivide it and get more money--I'm not against that, she does spend a lot more on the kids than I do since they live with her--but now I'm seeing that it won't work that way, and I might wind up having to fight over the kids in some form or another.

She's also the type to spread stories amongst her friends (the two she has) and co-workers, and now I'm starting to see that if I don't have some facts to counter that with, the stories might be taken as true, or might be the only thing a judge has to go on. So yeah, you're right, I do need to start keeping a log book. :(

[Rosie1223]

16. That and Flvegan would probably volunteer to rescue your pets. n/t

[jobycom]

17. A trip to Florida and getting to meet one of my fave DUers?

Not a bad idea. :)

I think it won't come to that. I know how to stop it. It will just cost things down the road.

I'm just so angry and shocked and depressed right now. I haven't been like this since I left her, and thought she'd lost that power. She had, really, so she found a new way to flex it. I always knew one day she'd try to hurt the kids to get at me, but I always knew too that she loved the kids, and figured she wouldn't really hurt them because of that. But she's found a way to hurt them and blame it on them, or me, or whatever, so she won't hate herself worse for doing it.

Blech. Life. I'll survive. :)

[ceile]

5. What about making a complaint with animal control?

Cite it as abuse...

[jobycom]

10. I plan to threaten to if it comes up again.

And a few other things, like custody of the kids. One is a teenager, so I'll point out that she would choose to live with me.

I'm more worried about her poisoning them or something.

[RT Atlanta]

7. Go to court: seek a restraining order

preventing her from carrying this out.

[joeybee12]

14. Fucking, fucking evil! Any way of kidnapping the animals?

I would...I'd break the law over that...in a second.

[jobycom]

15. I'll find something to do.

I live in an apartment, or I'd just take them. If it comes to it, I'll do it anyway and figure out something else.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

18. My dear jobycom...

You've gotten some great advice here, and I have nothing I can add except this: :hug:

I sure hope you find a way to save those family pets...

And spare your kids the trauma...

Your ex is purely evil.

I am so very sorry to hear it...

:hug:

[Love Bug]

19. Can you find new homes for them? Can you take them in?

I know it's a lot to ask to find new owners for older animals, but that would solve the problem of getting them out of the house without killing them. That doesn't solve the problem of your ex being a cruel and heartless #$@%$, tho.

[Skittles]

20. I'd put her to sleep

[BlueJazz]

29. LOL...I was thinking the same thing.

[Arugula Latte]

39. Me too.

Miserable @#$%*+@#

:grr:

[donheld]

52. +1

[Moondog]

22. So your ex is a miserable excuse for a human being. Be glad

you don't share a bed with her any longer.

[Faygo Kid]

32. Yes, I see why she's your ex.

Sorry you got hooked up with her in the first place, but you do have the kids.

[lunatica]

23. There are laws against mistreating and abusing animals

Perhaps if she knows that she won't do anything underhanded like try to poison them. In the interest of self-preservation most people will usually not do anything that will get them in trouble with the law. It might take a legality threat to keep her from trying anything.

I really feel for you and the kids. And for your dogs.

[flvegan]

24. What else she could do with them? Simple, and I'm glad she hasn't thought of it...

give the job of pushing that needle to someone else by dumping them at animal control. Certain death wish for animals that age. Admonish her of the guilt of killing them, she just sentenced them. Of course, those three animals would wait at the shelter for her and the kids to come back, wondering what they did that deserved such betrayal. A perfect hell for an animal that lives for their people.

Here's what I'd do, short of stealing them. I'd tell her that if she rids those kids of those animals, I'll make it impossible to sell the house. I'd file lien after lien after lien. You can't sell it until I say so. Plus, as I've read you're still married, I'd threaten to file suit to enforce my homestead rights on the property. She thinks she's having trouble selling it with three elderly animals there, she hasn't seen shit yet.

I am a devious motherfucker when it comes to the animals.

[rcrush]

49. I like this approach.

[kimi]

25. I agree about a complaint with Animal Control

and maybe I'm just being pushy, but I don't know that I'd wait - she might do something in the meantime without threatening it first. It sounds like it doesn't take much to set her off, anyway. Animal Control could at least investigate and maybe make her see the folly of doing what she's threatened. And also, it makes a paper trail for any future problems you'd have in court, over your kids, cause this isn't just threatening animal abuse, it's also threatening emotional abuse of your kids. What an awful thing for her to do. I can see why you'd be torn up over this, so best wishes to you, your kids, and the pets.

[flvegan]

26. Sad but true: pets are still property.

Animal control isn't likely to do much of anything, to be honest. If a person wants to slash their own car tires, it's their car to do it. If a person wants to throw their tv in a dumpster, it's theirs to do so. If a person wants to humanely euthanize their animals, if they can find a vet to do it, they're free to do so.

It's one of the reasons I'm heavily involved in IDA's Guardian Campaign.
http://www.guardiancampaign.com/index.html

[kimi]

27. I didn't know that

Just assumed that it would be illegal - or something - to make a threat like that. I'm sorry to hear that it's not.

Sheesh, if it were me, then, I'd be scared stiff. For the kids and the pets. What an awful situation.

ETA: Never heard of the IDA Guardian Campaign before, it's very interesting, I do like that.

[hamsterjill]

57. Absolutely correct!

And yes, there ARE vets out there who will do it.

There are some "good" ones who, when confronted with a situation like this, will SAY they are going to do it, and if the owner doesn't stay while it's actually happening, then Fido and Fifi might very well go to a rescue organization.

There are also others who will do it because the client wants it done.

Once, our rescue heard of a bonded pair of cats being taken to a vet's office to be euthanized because the owner was moving and felt the stress and strain would be too hard on the kitties. We were alerted by a technician at the vet's office.

We had a home available for these cats. We begged the owner to let us take the cats, even promising continued communication between her and the potential adoptors, promising that the cats would be kept together, etc.

The owner STILL chose to have them put down. The vet did the procedure. He told me later that if he'd refused, she would probably have simply gone elsewhere.

That was one of the saddest situations that I think I've encountered in all my years of doing rescue work. I mean, why would anyone choose to kill a loving companion rather than give it the chance, at least, to go to a good home?

[BlueIris]

28. What a sociopath. Glad it's an "ex" you're posting about. nt

[noamnety]

30. Whatever she does, don't put your kids in the middle of it.

Don't talk smack about your ex to the kids. Don't imply to them that they shouldn't respect her. Part of your responsibility is trying to support healthy relationships all around, and minimizing dysfunction - in the areas you have control over.

Perhaps you can offer to take the pets in if that's important to you, and it sounds like it is.

[LeftyMom]

33. Pretending all is well isn't healthy, either.

It's okay to tell the kids that no, Mom's behavior isn't normal or acceptable. If you pretend that threatening to kill the family pets (or whatever other batshit behavior she's dreamed up lately) is perfectly normal, they're either going to think it is, which will fuck them up, or think you're going along with that kind of thing, which will fuck them up. The healthiest thing is just to say that Mom gets some very bad ideas at times, this is one of them, and that you're going to do your best to deal with it.

Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy. Not venting or name calling, but calm, rational honesty. Kids are better judges of people than we give them credit for, they already know all about their Mom's character flaws.

[noamnety]

34. Or ... just work toward a better solution to the immediate problem.

the pets were probably jointly owned during the marriage, maybe it is time for the other parent to take care of them for a spell if the mom feels she can't have them right now.

[LeftyMom]

36. Sounds like the immediate problem is the ex.

Honestly, I'd be blowing up the divorce lawyer's phone, because I wouldn't want anybody who thought that killing the family pets to facilitate selling the house was a good idea to have unsupervised access to children.

[noamnety]

37. The people I bought my current house from

were playing those games. At every conflict, they were calling lawyers, undermining the other parent, going to court over things that normal people would find other ways to resolve.

I would worry about the life lessons the kids get from that whole model of conflict resolution. I guess the parent has to decide for himself whether the kids are best served by having a court battle over whether they are allowed to spend time with their mother, or whether they are better served by watching their parents work together to find solutions that work for the common good.

Forcing an ex to keep pets they don't want, under threat of a lawsuit and custody battles, doesn't seem like good parenting skills, or life skills in general. Once she's the ex, some things fall under overly controlling behavior. If my ex tried to dictate what pets I had to have, I would think he had issues, to put it mildly.

If she doesn't want the pets, and the dad still wants them in the family, let the dad have the pets.

[LeftyMom]

40. Working together only works when both parties involved are rational, responsible and honest.

Based on the situation outlined in this thread, I personally would have grave concerns about this woman's ability to parent.

[REP]

41. I worry about the "life lessons" they get when mom threatens to KILL THEIR PETS

No one needs to learn how to accomodate, tolerate or tiptoe around such abusive and manipulative behavior. Killing pets is common to child/spouse abusers, and getting kids to think thats okay is a bad idea.

[noamnety]

42. The dad can't control that she threatened that.

What he can control is his response to it, which can either be:

FUCK YOU I am taking your ass to court you'll never see your kids again!!!

or

Ooooh, I understand the problem you have, let's work to find a compassionate solution.


I am suggesting that his response will be a model for how his children look to resolve problems in the future, and is as much a part of their development as moral beings as their mother's actions are.

[alphafemale]

61. "Ooooh, I understand the problem you have, let's work to find a compassionate solution."

Bullshit. Complete bullshit that will lead to being perpetually taken advantage of in many situations.

You don't put an animal down because they become "inconvenient." That is sick and appalling and to give such a decision legitimacy is just as repugnant as the act itself.

I've always taught my kids to make a stand for what was right and just.

All moral choices do NOT deserve the right to be honoured. Not even remotely so.

My kids Dad and I divorced and I never spoke poorly of him in front of them.

But I'd have certainly let my disagreement with him be known if he'd have done something as heinous as this.

[jobycom]

54. Telling kids that an abusive parent deserves respect is abusive in itself.

It no different than telling a kid being molested by a priest that he must still respect the priest because he's a priest.

[noamnety]

55. If you are giving your kids the message that their mother is no better than a rapist

and that she deserves no respect from them at all, then that's pretty much what I was talking about regarding responsible parenting vs. dysfunctional parenting in a divorce/separation case.

I know their was advice upthread about suggesting the mom sees a counselor, but I think you might want to consider talking to a counselor yourself to get advice about the best way to handle this with your children.

[jobycom]

56. I'm not, but my point is that you have no fucking idea

what's going on, yet you're giving advice as if you do. I have known kids who were told to obey parents who were raping them, and told to love and respect that parent, by the other parent. That's not just enabling, that's co-conspiring. If you give advice to an abused spouse to tell their abused kids to repect and obey the abusive parent, you are giving bad, and possibly fatal, advice, and perhaps need to seek a counselor for yourself, at least long enough to realize your advice is dangerous.

[noamnety]

58. Well, you haven't said anywhere that the mother is raping your children.

If that's the case, then yes, you need to file charges and do court proceedings.

Instead you've said that due to a combination of her housing situation and finances, she was unable to care for the pets at this time. And given the age of the pets, she was considering putting them to sleep.

And then you said that due to your housing situation, you were more willing to let her put the animals to sleep than to take them in yourself.

So it sounds to me like you both prioritize housing and finances over the pets. (Otherwise you'd have offered to pay to board them, or you'd move to a place where you could keep them, but they aren't worth that to you.) I just didn't see a huge difference between her being unwilling/unable to manage the pets right now, and you being unwilling to manage them.

As for my advice to see a counselor to figure out the best way to handle this with your kids, if you think that's "dangerous" - I don't really know how to respond to that. I can't envision any situation where getting advice from a counselor would be dangerous, unless you only have access to really shitty counselors.

Part of what a counselor might be able to do for you is to help put this in perspective. It doesn't sound like this is a "possibly fatal" situation for your kids, unless you are concerned she is accidentally going to put one of them to sleep instead of the cat. You've compared your ex to a rapist, a pedophile, a child-murderer at this point ... so yes, my advice to talk to a counselor stands. If that's how you are talking to your children about their mother, there's a very real possibility that you yourself are causing psychological damage to them, even though all you see is your ex causing damage.

If you see a counselor and they tell you no, it's healthy for your kids to hear you compare their mother to a rapist and murderer, then so be it. :shrug:

[BreweryYardRat]

59. DAMN, I wish someone had told my father that.

"Respect your mother." "Be nice to your mother." "Your mother loves you." Ad nauseum. :puke:

Meanwhile, the emotional/verbal abuse I sustained has damaged me for life...and I wasn't all that tightly wrapped to begin with.

[SoxFan]

31. Go to the court that granted the divorce, ask for injunctive relief

Worth a shot.

[LeftyMom]

35. In addition to the above advice, I would suggest contacting the local vets.

Start with whichever vet she normally uses and perhaps any others in the neighborhood, to let them know what's going on and that if she brings any of the animals in with some dreamed-up health complaint or sob story to please contact you to come get them rather than euthanizing the animal.

Ditto with the local animal shelter.

[begin_within]

38. It's HER that should be put to sleep, not the innocent animals.

[Symarip]

43. Petco and Petsmart usually have a free bulletin board

And there's always craigslist, too.

I wish I was closer because I'd take them in a heartbeat.

[Forkboy]

44. Some people just suck major quantities of ass.

You're probably being cooler about than I would.

[Captain Hilts]

45. NO. nt

[Haole Girl]

46. What a bitch... no, make that Bitch

:-(

[Texasgal]

47. Joby... I would be happy to

temporarly house these baby's until something could be worked out.

I have a rather large house and a large yard. Please PM me if you need my help.

[flvegan]

48. Aw, bless you.

What a fantastic offer to make. You're good people (not that I didn't already know that).

[madrchsod]

50. nah....i won`t go there

[Kali]

51. um

I think I would actually be more worried about my kids being in her presence than what she is plotting about the pets.

[BreweryYardRat]

60. I like Flvegan's ideas for stopping her.

There've been a couple other good posts.

On the other hand, if nobody's going to miss her...