brady campaign has serious concerns... do you?

[Pez]

FOR BACKWARD THINKING ON GUN POLICIES, DEAN IS WRONG FOR THE WHITE HOUSE

Americans who care about responsible gun policies should reject the former Vermont Governor.


Washington DC - Howard Dean is running for President. He believes that gun laws should be at the state level, not the federal level.

Perhaps Dean will have success in convincing criminals to promise not to carry their guns across state lines, and convincing gun traffickers not to buy or sell them across state lines. Governor, guns cross state borders. Maybe it's you who should stay at the state level.

Former Vermont Governor Dean says he's from the "Democrat wing of the Democratic party." As far as gun safety advocates are concerned, give us a Democrat from some other wing of the Democratic party, please.

"Governor Dean is wrong for America on gun policy," said Michael Barnes, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence United with the Million Mom March. "It makes no more sense to leave gun policy up to each individual state than it would to let each state set separate environmental standards. Guns cross state lines as easily as pollution. We're going to make sure that Americans who support our cause know he's wrong on these issues."

"Hey, Howard: We don't need a pro-NRA president. We've already got one," said Mary Leigh Blek, President Emeritus of the Million Mom March. "Americans who care about getting guns off our streets need to know there is virtually no difference between Governor Dean and President Bush."

Dean's state-by-state approach to gun crime won't work. Every day, gun traffickers take advantage of states with the weakest laws to get guns. Those guns are then sold on the black market in cities and states with strong gun laws. The only way to crack down on illegal gun sales is with strong federal gun laws that apply to all states.

<snip>

As the nation's largest national, non-partisan, grassroots organization leading the fight to prevent gun violence, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence united with the Million Mom March is dedicated to creating an America free from gun violence, where all Americans are safe at home, at school, at work, and in their communities.

more

[dsc]

1. I would like you to sight one, just one,

public policy goal that you think Sarah Brady could get through Congress if she were elected President tomorrow which Dean hasn't said he supports in regards to guns. For the record, Dean supports the assult weapons ban, the Brady law, closing the gun show loophole, and opposes exempting gun manufacturers from lawsuits. So just what do you think she could do aside from that?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. Does Dean support

a child safety lock requirement for handgun sales?

[dsc]

8. I honestly don't know

but I don't think one passed while Clinton was there so I fail to see Brady getting it done either.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

11. Well according to Dean's webpage, ironically entitled 'Sensible Gun Laws'

he's not for it. In fact, he specifically mentions being opposed to any 'additional gun safety laws' at the Federal level. A real believer in sensible gun laws will be able to get this common sense measure passed. Even in places like here in Montana the NRA hysteria is wearing thin.

[dsc]

12. I have to say

that around here I am seeing no sign at all that the NRA is losing power. Clinton favored those locks for 8 years, had a case where 19 white, middle class kids were mowed down. He couldn't get it done. Just what makes you think anyone can?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. Well the NRA targeted

Baucus here in Montana after the assault weapons ban, and I'm guessing you would have bet with the NRA -- well, we've re-elected him twice. And I don't think we need to give up the fight and said the gun lobby is too powerful for us. Clinton did get the Brady bill and the Assault Weapons Ban and just who believes if Dean had been in the White House that would have happened? On this issue, Dean is out of step with the Democratic party, and out of step with the electorate. I'm just like John Kerry in that I am a gun owner who believes the second amendment and common sense are not mutually exclusive.

[dajabr]

32. "out of step with the Democratic party"

You mean this party?

Shotgun Wedding

Plenty of observers did a double-take last week when the top Democratic senator, Tom Daschle, supported a bill to protect gun dealers and manufacturers from legal liability, finding himself on the same side as all the major gun groups, from the NRA on down. "It is wrong -- and a misuse of the civil justice system -- to try to punish honest, law-abiding people for illegal acts committed by others without their knowledge or involvement," said Daschle.

--snip--

Certainly the centrist Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the intra-party group that launched Bill Clinton's national career, thinks so. The DLC held a forum in Atlanta last week, entitled "God, Guns and Guts: Seizing the Cultural Center," and devoted to the proposition that Democrats need to make inroads into key constituencies such as "gun owners, people of faith, married couples with kids."

More: http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2003/43/we_595_02a.html

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. What, do I look like some fan of Daschle's?

[dajabr]

36. What...

Do I really care?

Thought the part about Kerry licking DLC ass and adopting their position might be of interest.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

37. Your characterization is vulgar, disgusting, false and contemptible

[dajabr]

39. Says

you...

Dean,Dean,Dean,Dean...

[MrPeepers]

50. Says

he, Dean is out of touch with a great many of the individuals who make up the Democratic Party, such as myself, and not the DLC. You do know the party represents a significant portion of this country, right? And that that significant portion of this country has a belief that we need more restrictions on guns? Dean is out of sync with these people on this issue, and that is just a fact.

Peepers

[dsc]

33. are Sanders and Leahy out of step too

they both opposed Brady, that is they voted against it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

35. Well I'm glad they're not running for President.

[paulk]

61. How is it possible to support closing the gun show loophole

and be for states rights over gun law at the same time? Aren't they contrdictory positions?


CBS) The National Rifle Association gave thousands of dollars last month to Colorado state legislators in an effort to defeat gun control laws inspired by the Columbine massacre. CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports many of those measures were voted down this week.

Only a few token laws, those supported by the NRA, passed. One allows cops to arrest people who buy guns for criminals and children; another re-authorizes a state background check program.

Most of the other proposals were shot down. Among other things, these laws required background checks at gun shows, safe storage of guns at home and an increase in the age for buying a handgun from 18 to 21.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/02/16/columbine/main161459.shtml





This is what happens when states are allowed to make gun law - laws that supercede city regulations.



Colorado cities face gun law showdown
Communities trying to keep people from openly carrying firearms

By Catherine Tsai, Associated Press
August 13, 2003

DENVER — A showdown is developing in Colorado cities between the right to bear arms and public safety as city councils consider barring residents from openly carrying firearms in public buildings.

New state laws prevent cities from banning concealed weapons in public buildings, but at least seven communities are trying to keep people from carrying them openly.


http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/state_news/article/0,1713,BDC_2419_2178760,00.html

[kwolf68]

2. Dean's fly

Dean is either lying to people or is just a plain hypocrite.

On numerous occasions he has espoused his position is gun laws SHOULD BE a matter of the states.

YET, he advocates this strict Conservative interpretation while at the same time saying he would NOT repeal said FEDERAL GUN laws. So, he "thinks" it should be a states rights issue, but "sees" nothing wrong with the present laws, or at least he isn't advocating their repeal (which in my view is the same thing as saying you support them).

So Dean is AGAINST federal gun laws, BUT FOR THEM too. Cool deal...and his seemingly <[edited so I can hear rebuttall instead of talking about bashing>] fan club thinks his position is one of stark substance and beauty. LMAO.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

6. There is no conflict here

There are limits put on the states all the time in regards to lots of things. I see no fundamental inconsistency here. And BTW I don't see alot of conservatives publicly advocating the removal of those laws (at least not elected ones).

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[indigo32]

7. Give me one reason why I should talk to you

My post got deleted... I don't remember calling you anything...but you get to continue to insult.
If you want to have a conversation then settle down and act like it.

[Pez]

9. eh...

Vermont

Vermont maintained its 1998 grade of D- because it does not have a child access prevention law, does not regulate secondary sales, does not allow cities and counties to enact ordinances to prevent gun violence, and does allow the carrying of concealed weapons without even a permit. The state does have some restrictions on juvenile sales and possession. In 1996, 5 children and teenagers in Vermont died as a result of firearms.

gun laws

Gun Show Checks
Are background checks required at gun shows? NO

No state requirement that a Brady criminal background check be done on people buying guns at gun shows if they are sold by "private" individuals or gun "collectors." Gun shows can operate on a "no questions asked, cash-and-carry" basis, making it easy for criminals and even juveniles to buy as many guns as they want at gun shows, including assault weapons. No records are required to be kept on gun show sales by private individuals or gun collectors, making it almost impossible for police to trace such weapons if they are used in a crime.

License or Permit to Purchase
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? NO

No state requirement that handgun buyers obtain a handgun license or undergo any type of safety training prior to buying a handgun.

Secondary Sales
Are background checks required on 'private' gun sales? NO

No state requirement that criminal background checks be done on people buying firearms at gun shows, swap meets or through newspaper or internet advertisements. Criminal background checks are only required if the buyer goes to a federally-licensed gun store - all other sales are not subject to the background check.


Waiting Period
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? NO

No state requirement that there be a waiting period for gun sales beyond the "instant check" in federal law. Police are not given any additional time to run a criminal background check to make sure the gun buyer is not prohibited from acquiring firearms. There is no "cooling off" period to help prevent crimes of passion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

making it possible for murderers across the nation! go state laws!

[kwolf68]

13. You don't get an A+

for nothing from the NRA.

[Pez]

14. kerry received a 100% from The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence

and an F from the NRA.

dean got an A from the NRA.

[JohnKleeb]

15. I would take that F with pride

Sorry I just dont like the NRA, never have and never will.

[kwolf68]

17. An F

from the NRA is worth 4 or 5 bonus points at least. An A? Much reason to be skeptical.

I loathe the NRA.

[JohnKleeb]

20. As do I

As I see you said you liked Kucinich below, well another man who agrees with you, I, and Senator Kerry. I dont like the NRA one bit either.

[kwolf68]

16. And it is things like this

That bother me about blind devotion to any man, especially one we really dont know much about.

I'm a Kerry guy, but have my options well open. I like Edwards and of course Kucinich, though he's not going to make it.

So instead of analyzing the issues with Dean, these folks either just stick their head in the sand ("There's nothing wrong with that issue"), they change the subject, spin or just go find another thread they can continue to cheerlead.

Hell, even w/ this bogus stance, I am still checking out Dean. While his supporters make my stomach ache, that isn't his fault. I like some things he says and does, but to me...I dont trust him. Can't know why, but I don't.

Still, time is out there and maybe he can explain it all to me and I'll-just like the rest of the masses-will fall in love with him. This is what is sorely lacking in here...A critical analysis of one of our candidates who has very questionable stances on guns, death penalty, corporate farms, etc.

[dajabr]

19. "especially one we really dont know much about"

Speak for yourself...

[kwolf68]

22. Then esplain

His position on guns, death penalty and corporate monopolies. One liners may work on the Dean boards, but not here. Give me your solid interpretation of why Dean has the other people beat on these 3 issues. And there is questions about his environmental policies as well...Freaking unreal. In Vermont, one of the most left wing states in the nation, Dean manages to get an A from the NRA, manages to aggravate the environmental community, manages to placate corporate farms, etc.

But he did oppose the war while laying in his hammock so I guess he's a winner.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

26. Not one major statewide elected politician

has any kind of decent gun control record in VT. Leahy and Sanders, last I checked pretty damn liberal politicians, were endorsed by the NRA and repeatedly. The people of Vermont don't like gun control so they elect people who don't like it either. Go figure.

http://www.gunfree.org/content/coalition/coal_keyvotes_103.html

If you go to that link and click on see vote for Brady in the House and the Senate you will see both Leahey and Sanders opposed Brady. They did vote for the assult weapons ban.

[huckleberry]

60. Just go to Dean's website if you want to know his positions -

http://www.deanforamerica.com/index.html

Here is what he says about guns --

Vermont has one of the lowest homicide rates in the United States. During my 11 years as Governor, the highest number of murders in a single year was 25 and the lowest number was five. Over half of these were domestic assaults, and the majority were not committed with a firearm.

If you say “gun control” in Vermont or Wyoming, people think it means taking away their hunting rifle. If you say "gun control" in New York City or Los Angeles, people are relieved at the prospect of having Uzis or illegal handguns taken off the streets. They’re both right. That’s why I think Vermont ought to be able to have a different set of laws than California.

I believe the federal gun laws we have -- like the Brady Bill -- are important, and I would veto any attempt to repeal or gut them. The Assault Weapons Ban expires next year, and it should be renewed. Although President Bush has claimed he supports renewing it, he is talking out both sides of his mouth; his staff has signaled that he doesn’t want or expect Congress to renew the ban, and that is wrong.

I don’t think we need a lot of new federal laws. But we do need to do a few things at the federal level, like requiring Insta-Check on all retail and gun show sales. We also must do a better job of enforcing the laws on the books. President Bush promised to be tough in enforcing gun laws, but his Administration has prosecuted only about 2% of all gun crimes and they are virtually ignoring 20 of the 22 major federal gun laws on the books. That is an abysmal record, and as President, I’d make tough enforcement a reality, not just political rhetoric.

After that, I would let the states decide for themselves what, if any, additional gun safety laws they want. Just as we resist attempts by President Bush to dictate to the states how we run our school systems and what kind of welfare programs to have, we need to resist attempts to tell states how to deal with guns beyond existing federal law and fixing a few loopholes and problems.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

64. Dean opposes child safety locks.

Dean specifically says he is opposed to any additional gun safety laws at the Federal level.


I think it is just common sense that handguns should be sold with a child safety lock. A gun in the hands of a child is just as dangerous here in Montana as in Los Angeles.

[slackmaster]

65. Dean does not oppose child safety locks

He opposes making them mandatory, i.e. requiring that everyone who buys a gun MUST buy a child safety lock for it, or that everyone MUST put a child safety lock on a gun when it's not in use.

We don't require everyone who buys a car to buy a child safety seat for that car because some people don't have small children.

A person who owns a gun safe and/or has no children in the home should not be required to buy a child safety lock for a gun.

I'm all for making them available for all guns, but don't force people to spend extra money for something they don't need.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

67. He says so right on his website, your spin to the contrary notwithstanding

Your ridiculous attempt to spin the issue aside, Dean is opposed to a federal law requiring child safetly locks with handgun sales. In fact he just says outright he is opposed to any 'additional gun safety laws'.

Does that mean I'm saying Dean wants to outlaw child safety locks? Duh. No.

Kerry is in favor of this sensible measure. That's a substantive policy difference. I don't have children and I still bought a trigger lock when I bought a handgun. Do I need it? Well you could argue that I don't need a seat belt either -- after all, I haven't gotten in a accident...yet... :eyes:

[indigo32]

18. I do not agree with every position Dean takes

any more than I agree with Every position of any of the other candidates. There are many other issues I do agree with him on.

[kwolf68]

23. Good

Then lets hear them. Outside of his war take (which we've heard), what is Dean's vision, where is his principles? What's in his heart and soul?

No campaign blogs, no cliches...What's in the man? What do YOU see to give you this kind of passion.

The ONLY politician that's ever done this for me was Paul Wellstone and I don't think there was ANY doubt about what he was about.

[indigo32]

29. How about you explain to me

what brings out such utter contempt? I'll support whom I damn well please thank you very much. And what do you know about my passion. You don't know me at all.

Frankly it was NEVER just his war take (which you will continue to hear, though not from me. Lots of things get repeated around here... not just his war take) for me, that was just icing on the cake. It was his call to fight back. It was the look in his eye, and his answer, when he was questioned on "Gay Marriage" by some plant in an Iowa meeting. It's his sensible call for balanced budgets and pragmatism. I believe in him...and so do alot of other people... and your just gonna have to suck it up and deal with it.

[9119495]

43. Here they are

First off, everybody calm down. We have to vote for each other's candidate at some point.

Dean on eduaction: Repeal of No Child Left Behind (Others want to fully fund this BS legislation)

Fully fund special education like the gov't promised in 1970s.


Dean on guns: Let the states decide so hunters in Idaho have laws that work for them and Chigago has laws that can combat gun crime. The idea is the hope for local controll as no law short of taking all guns will work anywhere.


Dean on Health and Human Services: Home visits for all new babies. The goal is to get the mommas to momma right. We can't wait unitl age four or five to reach kids.


Dean on foreign policy: Participate in the United Nations as a member, not an owner. Build international consensus against threats to the US and act multilaterally.


How's that? By the way, I don't get all this sniping of each other. We have a GREAT field of candidates. I think its getting vitriolic as we start to realize whoever our nominee is will become president.

[indigo32]

44. Hey 9119495

welcome. Yeah things get a little heated around here... Its a shame really. I just get especially upset when Dean supporters are smeared. You maybe missed some of the deleted messages above but I didn't. But I suppose it's par for the course...adn "I think its getting vitriolic as we start to realize whoever our nominee is will become president." is probably right on the money.
UNNAMED DEM in 04!!!!!!!

[dajabr]

21. Gun Owners for Howard Dean

http://gunownersfordean.blogspot.com/

This blog is such a waste of time, as we know gun rights is not a swing issue and that gun owners never go to the polls... :eyes:

[kwolf68]

24. Yea most

Go to the polls and cast their votes for Conservative nutjobs and opine about the ATF, jack booted thugs, and injustices at Waco.

The states this is an issue? Already decided. Texas, Montana, the South...Even if guns didn't exist these states are for right-wing politicians.

Maybe we should try to get some of those who don't vote, or inspire the Democratic base instead of appealing to Chuck Heston for crying out loud.

[dajabr]

27. Expect the boys from Washington to obey their DLC masters...

And toe the line. At least Dean had the balls to stake out his own position.

Shotgun Wedding

Plenty of observers did a double-take last week when the top Democratic senator, Tom Daschle, supported a bill to protect gun dealers and manufacturers from legal liability, finding himself on the same side as all the major gun groups, from the NRA on down. "It is wrong -- and a misuse of the civil justice system -- to try to punish honest, law-abiding people for illegal acts committed by others without their knowledge or involvement," said Daschle.

If some centrist Democrats have their way, we can expect to hear much more of this kind of talk from Dems, many of whom have been hurt at the polls by their anti-gun image.

A Wall Street Journal editorial on Monday said, "Perhaps Mr. Daschle has seen the light. <...> But our guess is that the explanation is much more pragmatic. Mr. Daschle has seen the writing on the wall: Gun control, which was less about safety than about scaring suburbanites into voting for Democrats, is a political loser."

Certainly the centrist Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the intra-party group that launched Bill Clinton's national career, thinks so. The DLC held a forum in Atlanta last week, entitled "God, Guns and Guts: Seizing the Cultural Center," and devoted to the proposition that Democrats need to make inroads into key constituencies such as "gun owners, people of faith, married couples with kids."

More: http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2003/43/we_595_02a.html

[pandatimothy]

28. So who is Sarah endorsing?

If it's Dean versus Bush?

[JohnKleeb]

31. Probably not endorse anyone

[lastliberalintexas]

38. No, I don't

Sarah Brady is a REPUBLICAN, in case you people have forgotten. She continues to campaign for REPUBLICANS. Yes, let me concerned about what this REPUBLICAN woman and her organization has to say about Democratic candidates. :eyes:


Sarah Brady has done more to damage the Democratic party in the South than any other single individual. We have to run campaigns against repubs and the gun control people down here. Yet you want me to kowtow to her opinion? Not likely.

Let me say this loud and clear- as much as it galls some of you, not all Dems are in favor of gun control. I'm sorry that those of you who are can't understand why we disagree on this issue. Being in favor of limited gun control measures and opposed to outright bans of guns (as are Dean, Clark and Edwards) is NOT the same as supporting the NRA.

I disagree with Kerry on this issue, but if he's the nominee I'll vote for him. What about you Dean haters? What if Clark is our guy? Come November, will you put aside your gun control issue and vote for either of them?

You certainly have the right to campaign for your first choice for the primaries and try to get a pro-gun control candidate. But if you don't succeed, who will you vote for?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. SARAH BRADY IS A REPUBLICAN!

It bears repeating.

[Pez]

42. so republicans are against the nra?

scroll down to the bottom and see this:

As the nation's largest national, non-partisan, grassroots organization leading the fight to prevent gun violence, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence united with the Million Mom March is dedicated to creating an America free from gun violence, where all Americans are safe at home, at school, at work, and in their communities.

[lastliberalintexas]

47. We have pro-life Dems

They have pro-gun control repubs. Yes, she is a repub, never mind her stance on guns. BTW, Henry Hyde also supports gun control, but I would most definitely say he is a repub too. That's the problem with trying to pigeon hole someone based on one issue.

[Pez]

40. map of electoral votes

state support of gun laws

blue = States with Governors who support sensible gun laws
(295 Electoral Votes)

gray = States with "mixed" support for sensible gun laws
(81 Electoral Votes)

red = States with Governors who oppose sensible gun laws
(162 Electoral Votes)

[9119495]

45. Great map but ...

Where does the gun issue rank in the blue states compared with say, the economy and national security? Is it a key vote getting item? I would really like to know if people that live in those states could tell us how people rank the issue. Something like that might actually help us decide on a candidate.

[slackmaster]

46. What is and is not "sensible" is a matter of opinion

According to the Bradyistas it would appear that a lot of states have governors who are not "sensible" people, therefore the people who elected them must also not be sensible people.

Branding tens of millions of people who disagree with you as not sensible. Now THERE'S a winning strategy for the Democratic Party.

:dunce:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

48. Too simplistic

My state Montana is red, because we have a 'governor who opposes sensible gun laws'.

Well guess what? She has a 16% favorable approval rating.

The NRA targeted Baucus after he voted for Brady and AWB and he's been re-elected twice! America is changing...

[dsc]

49. I live in Ohio and can tell you that their characterization of Taft

is utterly false. What Taft did was say that as long as the State Police opposed concealed carry then he would to. There is a compromise in the works which has the State Police's support (no carry in cars) and he will sign that. To my knowledge he supports literally no other gun laws whatsoever.

[blm]

51. Most of his supporters don't care. They lean Libertarian

and want to promote guns and deregulation and state's rights on controversial issues like civil unions and Confederate flag. Of course, us old values Democrat prefer civil unions and the flag issue be mandated federally as civil rights issues. And deregulation should stay as the goal of the BFEE and NOT Democrats.

[dsc]

52. I suppose you have some poll to back this up

no wait that is being a net nanny to dare you ask you that. For the record Dean is in favor of the feds forcing (ie via a law) states to recognize relationships between gay partners. But he is in favor of letting the states decide what to call them. He said that to Russert, to Larry King, and at the HRC forum.

[blm]

53. That's not what he FIRST said to Russert in July 2002 when he

was still running for centrist votes. He specifically said he would not promote it federally at all. Leaving the definite impression that he was keeping a hands off attitude. Of course he changed his mind when the liberal antiwar movement started fueling his campaign and Dean's opportunism had a talk with his backbone.

[blm]

54. Why does it need a poll? Go govern someone else

who is posting declarations of Dean's omnipotence. You know, where Deanies brag that Libertarians and independents and Republicans are voting for Dean. DUH...of course they will...he's as far right as they are, playing the left for suckers.

Many is many, some are some, and no poll is needed.

[dsc]

55. Try reading YOUR OWN HEADLINE

You used the word most, which means over half, it has a very specific definition. And my link for that BTW is any decent dictionary of which I presume you have one.

[blm]

57. Libertarians, Independents and Republicans voting for Dean

is a topic here at least once a week. When Deanies want to celebrate how many of these folks are drawn to Dean, you don't seem to mind. When those of us on the liberal side who don't like that type of centrism bring it up...BAM...you're in our KoolAid.

[dsc]

58. Find one, just one

post by any Dean supporter, any where, any time, in any thread, on this forum or off, that claims a majority of people voting for Dean are anything but Democrats. You used that word and you need to just once stand behind what you wrote.

[blm]

59. You need to stop picking at nits.

.

[dsc]

62. No you need to start being accurate

You know quite well there is a huge difference between some libertarians are voting for Dean and the majority of his voters are libertarian. It isn't my fault you chose misleading words.

[blm]

66. YOU need to be more accurate if you're picking nits.

I said Libertarian LEANING Dems.

Sorry I am part of triggering this insanity. I should have said MANY of his supporters and not most. There, there dear, all better?

[Pez]

56. lax state gun laws enable thugs to distribute weapons across boarders

restrictions on sales at gun shows, waiting periods, allowing police to trace weapons... enforcing gun laws across the country is beneficial to everyone. would you like to hear that the gun used in a drive-by in nyc was purchased in your state?

would you like to explain to the families of the victims why it's not your state's responsibility that the gun used was easily purchased in your state?

[dsc]

63. actually many are

because one of the gun laws our alledgedly sensible governor won't pass is a law to limit purchases to one gun a month (Ohio). We are close enough to east coast cities that we are a somewhat major supplier.

[Redneck Socialist]

68. It is crazy talk like this that leaves a lot of democrats...

...scratching their heads. Gun control is a losing issue for dems, period. If we can shed the image that democrats want to take away peoples guns we will draw many, many voters back to the party.

Perhaps it is time that we stop looking for more ways to alienate everyone who doesn't meet our ideological litmus test.