Saving wind energy for calm days

[jpak]

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1073916.html

Wind power is clean and renewable. Now a group of utilities in Iowa, Minnesota and the Dakotas has a plan to make it reliable.

Using existing technology, backers plan to spend $200 million for a "wind storage" project that would be under construction in 2009 and in service in 2011.

<snip>

While Xcel Energy and the federal government also are experimenting with ways to "store" wind power in the form of hydrogen, the Iowa Stored Energy Park would employ a far simpler strategy. Wind parks in Iowa, Minnesota and the Dakotas would ship energy over the power grid to a rural site outside Des Moines, about 230 miles south of the Twin Cities.

Three thousand feet below the surface outside Des Moines, a sandstone aquifer (caverns that now hold water) will be injected with pressurized air, with the air temporarily displacing some of the water. The electricity from wind turbines will power the compressors. A pipe will deliver underground air compressed to 900 to 1,000 pounds per square inch. The compression of millions of cubic feet of air will be scheduled for nights and weekends, when wind power often sells for next to nothing.

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[drm604]

1. Thank you for posting this.

This is exactly the kind of thinking we need.

[phantom power]

2. I think I prefer the hydrogen...

to cycling air in and out of an aquifer week after week, year after year. What with our new climate of drought, and all.

[OKIsItJustMe]

3. Water and Gravity

I like pumped water. It's quite efficient, and (as opposed to hydrogen) generally not very flammable. :hide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage#Pumped_water_storage

[Egalitarian]

4. Agreed.

KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid.

[razzleberry]

5. if hydrogen was feasible, it would be done now

there is huge-continueing need, worldwide,
for 'electricity storage'.

yet, I don't know of any hydrogen projects.

with that said, there is nothing 'Wind',
about this story.

[phantom power]

6. I'm not really a fan of H2.

I was making sort of a joke, relating to how dubious I am about injecting large quantities of stuff down into the earth. Especially aquifers, which we might be wishing we had more of in the next 20 years as drought squeezes the entire planet like a python.

However, I think H2 is most likely to be useful as an intermediate compound in manufacturing synthetic fuels from cracked water and atmospheric CO2.

I'll say that I think H2 would be more practical as a large-scale grid storage medium, than a large-scale motor fuel. I think hydrogen cars are a non-starter. I think as grid-storage, they're at least plausible, if not the best overall solution.

[razzleberry]

7. electrity strorage is....just plain difficult

compressed air... efficiency problems
pumped water... limited sites
hydrogen...reconversion efficiency problems

superconducting . do you want your city to blow up?
batteries wear out really fast.

wind advocates should try to find 'interruptable' customers

[jpak]

9. Ugh - global warming will accelerate the hydrological cycle

which will result in *more* precipitation - especially in mid and high latitudes and, an expansion of the drought prone "horse latitudes" on the descending limb of Hadley Cells (~30 degrees N and S latitude) and in continental interiors.

Changing precipitation patterns will result in droughts and enhanced rainfall and more frequent severe precipitation events.

Drought is NOT the sole consequence of global warming.

This is fundamental climate change science...

http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/seminars/971105DD.html

[phantom power]

10. Yeah, I know. And all of that makes water harder to come by.

When precip starts to come in less-frequent, more violent events, that makes capture by the biosphere and aquifers more difficult.

[jpak]

8. Gee - there's the Schatz Hydrogen Project that has been operational for over a decade

http://www.humboldt.edu/~serc/trinidad.html

and the Schatz Palm Desert Renewable Hydrogen Transportation Project

http://www.humboldt.edu/~serc/transport.html

and the Norwegian Utsira Island wind/hydrogen project

http://www.hydro.com/en/press_room/news/archive/2003_05/utsira_en.html

and Xcel's and NREL's wind/hydrogen project

http://www.physorg.com/news87494382.html

and several domestic solar hydrogen projects

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0315/p12s01-sten.html

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.03/play.html?pg=9

http://www.chewonkih2.org/

and BC's Hydrogen Highway (which uses hydroelectricity to produce H2)

http://www.hydrogenhighway.ca/code/navigate.asp?Id=265

among others...FYI

[razzleberry]

11. isolated sites are a special case

things will be more expensive
for isolated, off the grid, towns.

as far as...

'peaking' electrical plants using H2 and fuel cells.
keep in mind that the difference in peak to base pricing
of electricity could-would-should, pay for a
lot of storage...

I don't know of any.

[jpak]

13. Denmark is planning to use large scale hydrogen production/storage

using wind power in the near future.

They will produce H2 during periods when wind power production exceeds demand, store it in low pressure tanks and use it at small municipal CHP plants (there are 535 of them in Denmark) that currently use natural gas.

H2 is currently 2-3 times more expensive as NG - but as more of the EU's NG will come from Russia (with real concerns over security, availability and price) these plans may be accelerated...

www.risoe.dk/rispubl/nei/33030-0034.pdf

Also, there are other alternatives for renewable energy storage in addition to compressed air and hydrogen:

Existing hydroelectric dams...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=115&topic_id=88992

and flywheel systems...

http://www.beaconpower.com/products/EnergyStorageSystems/flywheels.htm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=115&topic_id=65173

[Canuckistanian]

12. Iceland is using hydrogen

Iceland's hydrogen buses zip toward oil-free economy

REYKJAVIK, Iceland - Hydrogen, tested in buses from Amsterdam to Vancouver and used in the rockets of the U.S. space shuttle, is a clean power that promises to break dependence on oil and gas -- at least in Iceland.

"Sometimes I have to explain to passengers that it's just water vapor," the driver said of white clouds trailing after his bus along the streets of the capital, Reykjavik. "When it's very cold there's a lot of white steam."

With almost unlimited geothermal energy sizzling beneath its surface, Iceland has an official goal of making the country oil-free by shifting cars, buses, trucks and ships over to hydrogen by about 2050.

By then, in theory, the only oil used on the volcanic North Atlantic island will be in planes visiting Reykjavik airport.

Other countries, such as the United States, where President Bush is a strong backer of hydrogen, face a far tougher path.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0501/14/autos-60181.htm