Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Mandatory Registration of All Firearms (Kalifornia - Sponsored by a Democrat)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 06:55 AM
Original message
Mandatory Registration of All Firearms (Kalifornia - Sponsored by a Democrat)
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 06:55 AM by shadowrider
Sacramento, CA --(AmmoLand.com)- On April 5, 2010, Assembly Member Feuer (D-Los Angeles) amended AB 1810 to require the Attorney General of California to permanently keep and maintain a firearms registry that includes extensive personal information of all firearms purchasers.

Under AB 1810, all those who purchase a firearm will be required to register that firearm by submitting their name, address, place of birth, phone number, occupation, and sex to the California Department of Justice.

AB 1810 is little more than an extreme invasion of personal privacy masked as an important crime fighting tool.

http://www.ammoland.com/

And people wonder why Democrats get a bad name when it comes to guns and gun control.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. And it'll get just as far as if some Rep proposes we have mandatory school prayer.
They have wingnuts. We have wingnuts.

Welcome to life in the USA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Agreed
You have them on both sides.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Mein Feuer would agree as well
He also believes there are enough of them to make it a demographic worth marketing his "products" to .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. California, who can tell.....
The same fruit-loop Democrat authored California's:

.50 BMG ban

"micro-stamping" law

"handgun safety testing" law

since his district is West Hollywood and Beverly Hills he has no shortage of well-heeled and highly-public anti-gun celebrities to fund his foolishness. Lots of folks said his other silly shit would "never pass" too. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. To drive I sure had to give a lot of personal infomration to the MVD.
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 07:25 AM by no limit
I didn't call it an invasion of privacy, I called it common sense.

Having people that own guns register them seems like a real no brainer to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Driving is a privilege
Guns are a right. HUGE difference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. And nobody is taking your right away. So what's your point?
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 07:37 AM by no limit
And I would say the consitution is just as sepecific about travel as it is about your right to own a gun.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. No, it's not, actually.
And you're not required to give the DMV *any* information on yourself or your vehicles for private usage on your own property. Ever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Really? You can purchase a car without registering even if it's for personal use?
You sure about that?

Under the UCC (Article 2), a new car contract which purports to transfer ownership to the purchaser must be in writing. It should include a description of the make and model of the vehicle, its full vehicle identification number (VIN), a statement as to whether the vehicle is new, used, a "demo," rental car, etc., the full price and any financing terms, a cancellation provision if certain conditions occur (such as the car not being delivered by a certain date), and a full statement of warranty terms.

http://www.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/buying-car-registration

And again, registration does not take your right away in any way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. As long as you
don't use the vehicle on public land you don't have to tell DMV shit about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yes, many farmers and construction companies around here do it for work-only vehicles.
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 11:10 AM by OneTenthofOnePercent
The vehicles require no emission checks, no plates, and no license or insurance to operate.
They CANNOT be operated on public land or public roads.

They CAN cross or travel along public roads that cut through a large piece of private property.
This is so farmers can get their work vehicles from one piece of property to a nearby piece of property or cross a road.
There is a limit to the distance which can be traveled though and traffic laws must be observed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. But you still need the original registration that the purchase was made, no?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. No. You do not need to make a registration when purchasing a vehicle. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. No, all you need is the title
and all you have to do is send it to the DMV to get a new one and after that, as long as it isn't driven on public roads, you don't do anything else. No registration, no insurance, nothing
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. But the DMV was contacted in the process. That's a form of registration
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. No it's not
all your doing is getting the title in your name after that you don't do jack shit, For all DMV knows is that you are using it for parts or whatever, hell, you can even declare it junked and as long as it stays on your property the DMV could care less
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. But the DMV has a record of the title, with your name on it. Thats a form of registration
correct me if Im wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. You are completely wrong.
A title is not registration. It's formal acknowledgement that you own X vehicle according to the DMV, which is needed in ORDER to register it. If you don't intend to register it, you don't actually need a title at all. I sold my last car for parts, because the frame was rotting out. Still driveable, but I didn't need to supply the title or anything else to the guy who bought it, nor did the DMV ever know or care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. But the title comes from the MVD. It has your name and the vehicles win number on it
I do not mean registration in the typical sense of vehicle registration. I am simply making the point that what you are talking about is a FORM of registration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
67. No, it's not.
You're not required to have a title in order to own the vehicle. You're require to have the title in order to register it. Big difference.

You can own a perfectly functional vehicle without ever having the title. Since it's not required, it's not a form of registration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. No its not a form of registration
all it tells DMV is that you now own the vehicle, after that they don't give a damn what you do with it. You don't pay any fees and no insurance, no plates, nothing, its not even registered to you because its not registered.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Same damn thing with this gun registration. Thats the point
When you buy the gun you tell the state you have it. A form of registration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. You appear to be unfamiliar with the process of purchasing a firearm
When you buy the gun you tell the state you have it.

In most states including California (except for handguns) that is not true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. No, you aren't reading what I am writing in context. That is not what I said
I said that what this bill would try to do is get you to tell the state that you have the gun before you buy it. I never said that was how the law currently works, I should know since I've bought 2 guns in recent years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. That makes no sense
I said that what this bill would try to do is get you to tell the state that you have the gun before you buy it.

But before you buy it, you DON'T have it.

Pardon my confusion. I really can't tell where you are coming from.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. we were talking about how registration happens even for vehicles
the person said that you didn't have to register a vehicle. That turned out to be not true. And I pointed out that what is discussed in the OP is similar to that.

I am not saying that this is current law, you would have to reread the discussion again because apparently you missed it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #58
69. "That turned out to be not true."? Which bit?
You do not need to register a vehicle unless you're driving it on public roads. Period. Ask the DMV if you want confirmation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
68. By that logic, we already have gun registration.
After all, a background check and form 4473 has to be filed for any new gun purchase. By your logic, that counts as "a form of registration."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
64. You do not even need a new title..
A bill of sale is sufficient (at least in my state.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
45. A sales contract is not a State registration. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Why the fuck does
the govt need to know what guns I own? Where I live we don't have to register our guns and the Sheriff supports this. There is only one county in NV that requires registration and that is Clark County and that may soon go away and I say good fucking riddence
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. If you have illegal guns for one. Second if someone steals you gun.
Third if you kill someone with that gun and the gun is found the police department knows where to look.

Seems like common sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Registration does not affect illegal guns.
They are, by definition, illegal.

Second, I'm not required to register my TV, my cell phone, my antique glassware, or any other things that people might steal.

And third, by that logic, we should all be required to submit DNA and fingerprints to the police to make their job easier if we commit a crime. Except that we have a long history in this country of protecting privacy, and privacy dictates that what I own isn't any business of yours unless I want to take it out in public.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Except your phone, your TV, your cell phone, can't kill people
guns can. And they do, very often.

I meant illegal guns if you guy a gun from someone not knowing that gun is stolen.

And if you ever commit a felony your dna will be stored. If you ever commit a simple misdemeanor, if you become a citizen, or you get a passport your fingerprints will also be stored. You might consider that an invasion of privacy but it already goes on. And if we register your finger prints to get a passport having you register a gun seems like common sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Gun registries have never proven very effective in returning stolen guns compared to regular reports
People who illegally own guns will not register them. Therefore, the only point a gun registration comes into play is after the gun is no longer in the hands of the criminal because it's been seized or dumped. So registration does not prevent any crimes. And if it doesn't prevent crimes, and doesn't return many more lost guns than a simple police report with the serial number like anyone can do right now, then it just amounts to an added cost for local government and an added burden on legal gun owners.

And yes, you get your DNA recorded if you DID SOMETHING. How would you feel if every single person in the country were forced to get their DNA stored in a big database that the police could search any time they like, just for the fact that they're alive? I suspect that you wouldn't be okay with that. It amounts to considering people suspect without cause.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Is someone asking you for your DNA when you buy a gun? No? Then whats your point
they are asking you to register that gun in case:

1. The gun you are buying is illegal (unknown to you)
2. You go out and hurt someone with this gun
3. Your gun is stolen from you

How effective this is can be a very valid argument on your part especially when you talk about the costs of such a registry. But to pretend this is some kind of scheme to deny you your rights is absurd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. You're being intentionally obtuse.
Expecting people to submit to additional scrutiny, which has no effect on public safety, for engaging in strictly lawful activities is a violation of privacy. Do you approve of the wingnuts who require pregnant women to get a sonogram and mandatory counseling before having an abortion? After all, that's not infringing on anyone's rights, it's just for the sake of safety, right?

Take a look at the handgun registration systems in California and New York, and the universal gun registration system they had for awhile in Canada. You'll find that the number of crimes that are solved using such a system border on zero, for a number of reasons. One is that legal gun owners very rarely commit crimes. 90% of all murders committed with a gun are committed by people who have prior criminal records. Two is that if a previously law-abiding gun owner were to use one of their own guns to commit a crime, how exactly do they get caught? They would have to be so criminally stupid as to abandon a gun registered to them at the scene of the crime.

In fact, Canada's system was SO ineffective and expensive that they just voted it out of existence. $2 billion dollars down the drain, and law enforcement says they'd be hard pressed to find a single crime it solved.

So we've established that gun registration does not prevent crimes, and it does not solve any substantive number of crimes. That means it's simply a burden on the budget and a way of making life more difficult for legal gun owners, as well as an invasion of privacy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. And most of what you just said is perfectly valid.
What I have issue with is people that claim this is taking your rights away. No, it's not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Yes it does
It takes away my right to privacy. Why do you think the govt has a right to know what I own?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Because what you own in this case can and has killed many people
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. My guns have killed many people?
Show me the proof. Going by that logic than we should register knives, baseball bats, rocks, bricks, fists, feet, and so on and so forth.
I'll ask you again, suppose some POS of a reporter wanted to get a list of registered gun owners and publish it in the paper, after all, it would be a matter of public record, do you see a problem with, now lets carry it further, suppose some POS criminal wanted that list because it is a matter of public record, do you see a problem with that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Me personally? I would love for criminals to know I own guns, they probably wont break in
but you are making a lot of what ifs. What if you are a mass murderer that owns a bunch of guns. One of the guns is found at the murder scene yet the detectives don't know who it belongs to because they don't have a registry. You can play what if games all day.

And nobody is saying these registries should be part of public record, where did you get that from?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. Sorry
but a registry would be a matter of public record, just ask those CHL holders in Roanoke, VA that had their names published in the paper. Once again, the govt has NO FUCKING BUSINESS KNOWING WHAT I OWN OR DON'T OWN. And if you think that a criminal would leave you alone if he knew you had guns in your house, you are sadly mistaken, all they would do is wait for you to leave and then, poof, your guns are gone. No thanks, take your registry idea and circular file it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. What do you mean when you say "illegal gun"? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Stolen. And I know what you are about to say, before you do read my posts again
I am talking about someone buying a stolen gun without knowing it is stolen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #55
65. Well, I only buy guns from known legitimate sources...
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 01:40 PM by PavePusher
and would only sell to same, if I were to sell.

And it doesn't cost me or the government anything. Nifty, that.

Creating new opportunities for black markets only boosts crime. Or have we learned nothing from our lessons with banning alcohol and "drugs"?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
66.  I have been around the world 3 times with no passport. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Illegal guns?
Do you honestly think that criminals would register illegal guns? The only people that registration would affect are law abiding gun owners and registration historically leads to confiscation. If you don't believe me just ask any Kalifornian. The govt. has no right or business knowing what I own or don't own and I thank my lucky stars that I live in a county that basically tells the Feds to fuck off about gun control
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. You can buy guns from anyone right now. A gun owner might purchase a gun that was stolen
and not know it. A registry database would prevent that from happening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. A registry is not required to perform a background check on a firearm.
My father had a firearm stolen from him. He reported it (and it's serial number) to the police.
If it ever turns up at a crime scene... they'll know it was his stolen gun.

If a firearm is stolen, and the owner reports the theft, that firearm's serial number is listed as stolen.
If law enforcement finds that gun on a person and runs a check, it's serial number will come back as stolen.
If someone buying a used gun wants a check performed (to see if it's stolen) the police can run the serial number.

How does registration chenge any of this? :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. It doesn't. But most people dont call the cops when they buy a gun, I would think
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. In california... all firearms sold to anyone are sold through an FFL with a background check.
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 12:09 PM by OneTenthofOnePercent
Second amendment and confiscation speculating aside...
For a sate in a SEVERE budget crisis, why should significant funds be spent on something that offers very little return?
What new benefits does it provide? Why is this California Gun Registry necessary?

It is not... and registries have historically been COSTLY money pits delivering almost NONE of the claimed results.
Even Canaduh is trashing it's rifle/shotgun registry citing costly costly overruns, noncompliance, and no results.

This CA registry is a very poor move fiscally, politically, and (arguably) constitutionally.
Anyone who would support this is suspect of having a dangerously low I.Q. in my opinion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. Even if you buy from a private party?
I'm not gonna argue against the fact that this is a bad idea just because of how much it will cost. It isn't worth the cost, you are absolutely right about that.

But I have people that pretend this is meant to take their rights away. No, the intention is to keep track of all the guns that flow in this country. It might not be doable, but that's the intention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Once again
it takes away my right to privacy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. Yes... to be legal, a private sale MUST go through an FFL dealer.
In CA, if you want to sell a gun you must find a buyer then meet at a local FFL shop.
There, background checks are performed and a three day waiting period is initiated.
In addition to the FFL transfer and waiting period, a "Purchase Permit" with fingerprinting is required.

The argument is not that the registration is infringment or takes away any rights itself. It does not.
At most, it is a violation of privacy rights... if there is such a thing nowdays. This is a different issue alltogether.
The argument, and it's historically accurate, is that registration is a tool that may lead to (unconstitutional) confiscation.
Also, despite the bill's best intentions, registration just does not deliver on the crime-prevention front.

Opponets of registratoin simply see a threat/risk coupled with little/no social return for their inconvenience of registration.
Despite having great intentions... registration is not the answer. At best it's "Feel Good" legislation that solves nothing.
On top of solving nothing, it complicates the lives of otherwise honest law abiding citizens with a maze of more laws to navigate.

I oppose registration. I support creating a national list of stolen firearms with identifing information.
I also support opening up NICS checks to private citizens and requiring verification that a felon is not buying the gun.
Both these measures give the same benefits of registration without great potential for governemnt abuse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. I didn't know private sales worked like that too. I wonder if that's the case here in NM
thanks for the info.

And I can keep beating this dead horse but I'm getting tired of discussing this. I agree with you, I think that this is probably a bad idea just because of what a administration nightmare it would be. But I don't believe it's set up so that the state can come in and start taking your guns away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. No... NM is extremely Lax
But they do have good (spicy) food. :)

http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/nm/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Damn, so if my gun is stolen here I dont even have to report it?
That's a bit insane. But thanks for the link, appreciate it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. In NV
we don't need to go thru an FFL for private party sales, but we can take it to the local police to have a serial #'s check. In Clark County, when you buy a gun from a private party it is mandatory that you do this and then you get a blue card that you have to carry when carrying the gun around but every other county in NV doesn't require a serial check and no registration, I like that and I've heard that Clark County may soon get rid of it's registration requirements and I say good fucking riddence
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #41
53. Yes. Private-party transfers are processed through an FFL, with a background check
On the buyer.

But there is no registration for long guns. The state has no records of what long guns people own.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #41
62. Registration does not instantaneously remove your rights...
but it is certainly preparation to do so.

If the Government does not have a list of my guns, it will be more difficult to take them all from me.

And don't claim it won't happen, it has happened, as you are well aware.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. And why the hell should they call the cops
when they buy a gun?
My daughter is a Police Officer and she is dead set against any gun registration, as I think you'll find most street cops are. The only ones who support it are the cop-o-crats and anti-2nd Amend politicians. Most americans don't trust the govt and don't want the govt knowing what they have or don't have
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. The point is currently if you are buying a stolen gun you have no way of knowing
because as you just said most people won't call the cops asking if the gun is stolen. That was the only point I was making. Having a registration database would fix that issue. That's the only point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Once again
the govt has no fucking business knowing what I own or don't own, and if there was a registry base, suppose some POS of a reporter wanted to find out who owned a gun? After all it would be a matter of public record, and then whats to stop this POS from publishing it in the paper? Do you see a problem here? And don't tell me it wouldn't happen because it has with People with CHL's. No thanks, take your registration and put it where the sun don't shine
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
70. speaking of stolen guns
Wheaton vs. Caldera, et al

"Can a party acquire title to stolen property sufficient to
defeat the rights of the registered owner? If so, can the same
government which mandates registration and which maintains the
central registry of such property acquire such title to stolen
property when it has actual knowledge of the registered owner?"



Short story, a legally registered 1904 Maxim gun is stolen from a New Jersey VFW Post during remodeling.

Years later, this exceedingly rare gun turns up in the museum at the West Point military Academy.

The gun is listed by serial number in the NFA registry as belonging to the Plaintiff.

The ATF argues the registry was never intended to return stolen property to its lawful owners.

Please re read that. A lawyer for the Federal government, argued in front of a Federal judge, the registry of NFA firearms WAS NEVER INTENDED to reunite owners with their stolen property.

The Federal Judge rules the owner of the stolen property has no standing to sue for the return of his property.

So, evidently, if the government has possession of stolen property long enough it gains title to it because it says so.

Or let's put it in simple English,and answer me this:

How long does something have to be stolen before the original owner has no claim the property?

How many times do firearms registries have to be abused by governments at all levels before they become suspect?

Are you still waiting on the money from that Nigerian widow woman who e-mailed you?




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
71. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. You are so wrong
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 10:27 PM by cowman
The state of NV gives me that right and I exercise it when not at work.
Wait just a minute, did you just admit that the 2nd Amend gives law abiding citizens the right to own guns?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. That's the 'bear' portion of 'keep and bear'. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
47. May I see your First Amendment Registration papers, please?
After all, we want to make sure that the wrong people don't have the wrong books.

Seems like a no-brainer to me....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. We've already had two threads on this
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sorry about that
It's early and my coffee isn't down yet.

My apologies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. Registration usually leads to confiscatoin... & this measure does NOTHING increase gun track-ability
In CA... all guns MUST be transferred by FFL dealers who keep record the transaction for the ATF.
This even applies to firearms sold from one citizen to another... an FFL must be an intermediary 3rd party.
The "Form 4473" contains name and address as well as the firearms' and serial numbers.
Any gun sold to a citizen (or Law Agency) in CA can already be tracked.

Since all legal guns in CA can ALREADY be tracked... and criminals or people with illegal guns would ignore registration...
Why enact controversial registration? What's the gain? Is the gain worth the infringement?

Keep in mind, registration throughout history has typically led to confiscation (even in America)... :yoiks: :tinfoilhat:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. Feuer is dumb-ass and it will never pass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Dec 11th 2024, 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC