N CAROLINA: Now has Stand-Your-Ground-Law.

[GreenStormCloud]

http://www.hpe.com/view/full_story/16585806/article-DEADLY-FORCE--New-law-provides-more-leeway-for-self-defense-action

SNIP

Changes to the state’s Castle Doctrine Law that take effect Thursday do not require people to run before they fight back with a gun. The law expands the use of reasonable deadly force to include cars and workplaces if a person under attack fears imminent death or serious bodily harm.

SNIP

The changes also ease the civil liability gun owners can face if they shoot and kill or injure someone committing a crime against them.

SNIP

Also starting Thursday, North Carolina will expand handgun permit reciprocity so that a valid concealed handgun permit issued in another state will be valid in North Carolina, regardless of whether that state accepts a North Carolina issued permit.

Another win for pro-RKBA. Bad news for NC's violent criminals.

[bowens43]

1. the US will soon be Afghanistan

everyday I am more and more disgusted with my state (north carolina) and my country.

the death merchants and their devotees will try to spin this as a good thing

[Maine_Nurse]

3. Why don't you consider the home invaders, tweakers, and rapists to be worthy of disdain?

This does come down to a "them or me" situation. Are we supposed to roll over and show our bellies? Should we dispense hugs when attacked by criminals? If you ever move north, I hope you live near me. A sacrificial human anode of sorts.

[SteveM]

36. Some think Bonnie & Clyde were romantic; gang coharts said they smelled bad. nt

[Simo 1939_1940]

37. "A sacrificial human anode of sorts."

Fookin BRILLIANT!!

[oneshooter]

4. So, how soon can we expect you to move to Great Britain? n/t

[krispos42]

5. Bullshit

[We_Have_A_Problem]

8. It IS a good thing

Sorry you don't like it, but it seems to work out pretty well everywhere else.

Anytime you want to leave the country, let me know. I'll drive you to the airport.

Seriously - if you don't like it, leave.

[DrDan]

12. agree 100%

[PavePusher]

15. Any day now, amIrite?

If not now, when? If not here, where?

[rl6214]

28. Please point out which of the other states that have similar laws

have become like Afghanistan.

[ileus]

29. Just hide and watch...blood in the streets! Just like all the other states with a CD on the books.

[beevul]

30. Come on now, there is only ONE merchant of death.

Since so many gun control arguments are based on misinformation from pop culture, I thought I'd try it once.

[Glassunion]

39. If you mean that we will be a small country

roughly the size of Texas, located in the Middle East, consisting of about 2/3 mountainous regions and an arid to semiarid climate.

I would say that it would take one hell of an earthquake/plate shift and that most of us here in the US would not survive such an event.

I sure hope that does not happen.

Just sayin'

[PavePusher]

41. Heh. If you can't spot the smart-ass in the crowd.... 8>) n/t

[Glassunion]

50. What?

:7

[benEzra]

51. It *is*. This brings NC into line with most blue states re: self-defense in the home,

for one thing.

Prior to this, NC was one of relatively few states that had zero presumption of justifiability in the home. You could use potentially lethal force to stop a forcible home invasion only if you managed to shoot the invader in the act of entering; if he made it through the window or successfully crashed through the door, those legal protections became void. So you had the very strange situation that you could legally shoot through the door to stop someone trying to kick it down, but if they succeed in kicking it down and forced their way in, the law no longer recognized it as a home invasion. That was just weird, and probably the result of a poorly-thought-through law in the first place.

In practice, I don't think most NC DA's would have prosecuted things that way (well, maybe, but Nifong is gone...) but it needed fixing.

We didn't fix restaurant carry this year (damn fundies) but I am hopeful for next year.

[cleanhippie]

53. Except that it won't.

But nice hyperbole.

[ileus]

2. Another win for all the citizens of NC...congrats to the people.

[saras]

6. I just walked away from a situation in which if either of us had had a gun the other would be dead..

I was walking, late at night, away from a convenience store. I had went to get caffeine to stay up all night and write. I was accosted by a clearly mentally disturbed person (I suspected meth) who was convinced that I had somehow offended him walking through the store, and he had chased me down in order to "kill me."

While I wasn't as big as he was, I didn't show any deference or fear at all (more a blank "what in the holy FUCK are you ranting about?"), so he didn't attack immediately, and after about five minutes I'd talked him down to where we both mumbled apologies about not being careful enough in the store, and that was that.

If he'd had a weapon or other clear superiority, I'd be dead.
If I'd had a weapon, he'd be dead.

With this law, we'd both have weapons, and probably both be dead.

[ileus]

7. Does the law require you to carry a firearm?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

9. Oh really?

So you believe if you had a weapon, you would resort to that first, rather than the approach you did take?

You have no way of knowing if he WAS armed. He may well have been.

Seems to me that you're admitting you have anger and impulse control issues and believe we are all just like you. No, people like you should not have a gun.


Btw - in case nobody told you, a single example from your personal experience is nowhere near enough information from which to draw a conclusion on the behavior of the entire human race.

[Lionessa]

13. Not only are you correct, but

at least in the states I've had CCWs, the course you have to take to get the CCW certainly reminds one over and over that it is to be of last resort, short of carelessly turning your back on the suspect to run (I read that in this short OP, I didn't know one was ever required to choose to run before one defended oneself or those around him/her).

Sounds like the poster behaved as he/she should have, with or without a gun. Sounds like the poster is a skillful enough mediator (?) of situations to keep things calm most of the time. I don't get why he/she considers that she would'nt've been able to handle herself if she were a CCW carrier.

[pipoman]

10. Yeah, you're right..

because your nutcase didn't attack or escalate, none would...self defense is unnecessary for anyone...nobody will harm the vulnerable, you proved it. :eyes:

[slackmaster]

11. If he did threaten to kill you, you would have been perfectly justified in using force to stop him

If he died as a result, that would be unfortunate.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

17. Your accusation is vile and unsupported.

Prove it or withdraw it.

[DrDan]

19. I'll back off the "many" - and change it to "some"

[PavePusher]

21. Still looking for your cite.

When you accuse anyone of wanting to kill just for some imagined entertainment value, you'd better be prepared to support your claim.

[DrDan]

25. I find support for shooting a man in the back in the name of self-defense, killing him

to be "vile".

But that is supported by "many" here.

In addition, I find killing a man for stealing something as inconsequential as a ball point pen to be a vile act.

That that also garners support here.

Killing is what guns are all about - they go hand-in-hand.

[PavePusher]

26. So, no cites. Got it. n/t

[friendly_iconoclast]

34. Believing is seeing, for some...

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrDan]

44. done - post 43 - perhaps you can take time from your personal insults to do

a bit or reading

[Tuesday Afternoon]

40. you really need to back up this accusation with a link or two

since there are so "many" saying such a thing, it should be easy for you to post links to the actual quotes.

[DrDan]

43. you are correct, they are not hard to find

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=456527#456534

[Tuesday Afternoon]

45. so then: your premise is that one equals many? am I understanding you

correctly or do you have more links where ONE individual makes these assertions . . .

[DrDan]

46. 1??? - did you look at the thread?

I did not count how many were defending the shooting - but certainly more than the original poster.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

48. Did you completely ignore the circumstances of the shooting?

For starters, the criminal threatened the victim with a weapon...

[DrDan]

49. he was shot in the back of the head - and the shooter claimed self-defense - but you knew that

[We_Have_A_Problem]

52. Threaten someone with a weapon...

and whatever happens after that is your problem. No, turning to run away does not get you a free pass.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

47. this statement tends to murky the waters for me:

Abbot threatened Canul with a sharp object, possibly scissors, during that robbery.

[spin]

22. In your imagination ...

I suspect you envision those who legally carry concealed as cold blooded killers. If those who have carry permits viewed the situation described as a "wasted opportunity", the prediction that the Brady Campaign made that concealed carry would return our nation to the Wild West would have been accurate. Of course, the Wild West is largely a fantasy created by imaginative people such as you.

[PavePusher]

16. Why do you think that if you had a gun, you would have had to shoot him?

Why do you see the world in so binary a fashion?

[GreenStormCloud]

18. The law would not allow him the be legally armed.

He might be illegally armed but the law would not stop that anyway. I would need to know more details to know if you would have been legal to shoot him.

I am almost always armed, have been threatened and have never thought the threat serious enough to reach for my gun. My confrontations have always ended non-violently, for which I am glad.

[spin]

20. Did he attack you with the intent of inflicting serious injury or to kill you?

You say that "I'd talked him down to where we both mumbled apologies about not being careful enough in the store." To me it sounds like he never threatened you in a manner that justified the use of lethal force.

Now if he had pulled a gun or a knife or started beating and kicking you and there was such a great disparity in size and strength between you and him that he endangered your life or your health, you might have been justified.

The use of a legally concealed weapon is only for those times when it is the absolutely the last thing that you can do to avoid ending up in a hospital or six feet under. Talking your way out of a fight is often a successful tactic and should always be tried. Walking away from a fight even if it makes you look like a coward may also often be successful.

The last thing that you ever want to do is to use a weapon such as a firearm in an altercation. Even if you are justified, you will face significant legal and psychological problems.

Perhaps it is wise that you do not carry a concealed weapon as from what you have said, it appears you lack the control required to do so responsibly. You said, "If he'd had a weapon or other clear superiority, I'd be dead. If I'd had a weapon, he'd be dead."

Of course, to be fair, it may be that you believe what is sometimes suggested in this forum that everybody who carries a concealed weapon is looking for the chance to blow some fool away. If so, let me assure you that this is not the case for the overwhelming majority of those who are licensed to carry concealed.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

24. He very likely had clear superiority

Assuming you are female (based upon your name), he had physical superiority over you anyway - weapon or no.

[beevul]

31. How do you know he wasn't armed?

This seems a rather large assumption on your part.

[rl6214]

32. And why do you think if you had a gun

it would have been any different? Why would you not have been able to "talk him down to where we both mumbled apologies about not being careful enough in the store"?

They teach you at the concealed carry classes to de-escalate situations so you don't have to use your weapon. Are you so unstable that if you had a gun you would not be able to use your senses to handle situations like this?

[Remmah2]

33. Situations like that are scary.

Glad you walked away unhurt.

[DissedByBush]

42. Did he accost you in your home, car or workplace?

Otherwise, this law doesn't apply.

[Atypical Liberal]

23. Oh the backlash! n/t

[rl6214]

27. Oooooooh Noooooo!

The backlash cometh.

Another win for the good guys.

[Simo 1939_1940]

38. Congrats to NC...........

and yes -- another win for the good guys.