Fact Checking the NRA (and Bush)

[MrBenchley]

"The Washington Post piece  on the Bush campaign's willingness to fudge facts sure did open On Target's eyes. We figured that since Bush and the NRA are so close (what with them being Oval Office-mates and all), it was time we looked at some of the whoppers they've cooked up on the assault weapons ban and other gun issues.

So without further ado, a primer on the gun lobby's - and the President's - "wrong" and "highly-misleading" lies..."

http://www.csgv.org/issues/elections/ontarget/issue9.cfm

An accurate look on the truth behind the "Clinton Gun Ban," and the NRA's lies about John Kerry.

[OpSomBlood]

1. Fix your busted link.

So that I can go ahead and debunk the list of CSGV lies you're trying to show us.

[MrBenchley]

2. Gee, op....

Count on the gun nuts to speak up FOR Chimpy.

[OpSomBlood]

3. Speaking up for gun rights is not speaking up for Bush.

But far be it from you to realize that there's a difference.

[MrBenchley]

4. Surrrrrrrre....

You keep pretending that....and I'll keep posting FACT.

Columbine Father Challenges Cheney On Assault Weapons
"PITTSBURGH -- A man whose son was killed in the Columbine High School shootings literally walked in his child's shoes to the National Rifle Association convention, where he hoped Vice President Dick Cheney would address the federal assault weapons ban set to expire in September.
Tom Mauser, whose son Daniel was killed with an assault weapon in the Littleton, Colo., killings five years ago Tuesday, said continuing the ban is common sense.
Assault weapons "are the weapons of gangs, drug lords and sick people," Mauser said before his three-block march to the convention, which runs through Sunday. "It is a weapon of war and we don't want this war on our streets."
Mauser entered the convention hall where the NRA was meeting, but was turned away by a security guard as several conventioneers applauded. A couple of conventioneers yelled "Get a life" and "Vote for Bush." "

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3015989/detail.html

[Pert_UK]

5. "Get a life"......how terribly sympathetic.

So your son's dead, eh? Get over it and vote for Bush.

Nice....REAL nice.

P.

[MrBenchley]

7. Some swell playmates our "enthusiasts" have, eh?

And you'll notice "pro-gun democrats" were silent as the tomb during that convention....except for those still bitching that it gets public notice here.

[NorthernSpy]

6. a minority of a minority of a minority /= all pro-rkba people

Mauser entered the convention hall where the NRA was meeting, but was turned away by a security guard as several conventioneers applauded. A couple of conventioneers yelled "Get a life" and "Vote for Bush."


Please consider this:

NRA members are a minority of pro-gun people.

NRA convention-goers are a minority of NRA members.

The "several" applauders are a minority of NRA convention-goers.

The "couple" of pro-Bush hecklers are a minority of the several applauders.


So: how can the behavior of a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority reasonably be held to represent the much larger pro-rkba population?


Mary

[MrBenchley]

8. Gee, that's so cute....

And of course, seeing all those pro-democrat posts over on the gunwankers forums shows that...oh wait, there aren't any.

[NorthernSpy]

10. I'm not too familiar with the gun boards...

... because I don't have a gun-related hobby, and therefore scant reason to hang out in those places. So I simply don't know how much pro-Democratic sentiment exists there. I can't believe that there's none.

Didn't someone from here recently post something on one of those sites about his pro-gun liberal politics? If I remember this right, he got a good reception. Not sure who, where, or when, though...


Mary

(fixed typo)

[MrBenchley]

11. Yeah, that WAS hilarious....

It's also funny how all of our "pro gun democrats" have plenty of excuses as to why they don't have anything pro-Democrat to say on the gun wankers forums.

[OpSomBlood]

27. The real story.

Benchley claimed that none of the pro-gun Democrats here would have the guts to ever post at pro-gun websites (even though I presented ample evidence with links to my posts at floridashootersnetwork.com).

So I wrote a little blurb introducing myself as a pro-gun liberal Democrat who owns and enjoys guns. There were a few people who were a little hostile, but the vast majority of the members welcomed me and were willing to engage in conversation on the issue.

Now Benchley is pouting that I don't post there enough. Whatever...complaining is like oxygen to him.

[NorthernSpy]

34. so that was you!

Right! I remember reading some of that thread -- the parts that were posted here and some of the ensuing discussion.

However, I don't remember anything particularly funny about that episode, so I'm not sure what exactly struck MrB as "hilarious".


Mary

[OpSomBlood]

37. "That's so funny" means "I'm backed into a corner"

We'll get you caught up on BenchleySpeak. I hope you aren't offended by the word "fuck" though.

[library_max]

56. He went on to say that he was a gun enthusiast,

a Democrat, and a member of DU, and then he essentially apologized for being a Democrat and a member of DU and asked them to forgive him. Many were clever enough to see which way the wind was blowing and gave him responses to "prove" that gun enthusiasts are civil and progressive in their thinking.

What he did not do was to post anything like "Ten reasons gun owners should vote for Kerry and not for Bush." That would probably not have received such a positive reaction.

[MrBenchley]

59. Alan Colmes is a firebreathing radical

compared to our "pro-gun democrats."

[NorthernSpy]

62. ah, so

Well, thanks, Library Max. Guess everyone has his own perspective on that particular episode.

Probably, I should just reread the whole thing, and actually pay attention this time.


Mary

[OpSomBlood]

9. Just like his daily cherrypick of 3 posts from a 50,000+ member forum.

Same story, different day.

[MrBenchley]

12. That's so sad for you, op....

But then I'm not the one trying to pretend those forums are anything but cesspools for far far right wing shitheads....

[OpSomBlood]

14. Some of it is, most of it isn't.

But don't ask me, I'm not the one scouring their search engine for things that offend me.

[MrBenchley]

19. And that's why I'm quoting and you're crying...

[OpSomBlood]

24. It takes a lot more than some lonely guy's gun obsession to make me cry.

If losing an argument on the internet is enough to make you cry, that's your business.

[MrBenchley]

28. It shows....(snicker)

[CO Liberal]

42. It Doesn't Take Much Scouring

Because like the scum that it is, the offensive stuff floats to the top.

[MrBenchley]

44. What would take years of search

is finding something at one of those gun wankers forums that's even halfway sane.....

[TexasMexican]

13. Meh who cares about Bush or the NRA, it seems like someone here...

has a fetish for both of them.

Please put the NRA/Bush porn away. We will only have gun porn in the gungeon.

[OpSomBlood]

15. He spends more time at gun websites that the pro-gunners.

It's like an anti-porn crusader spending all of his time downloading the latest fetish videos. Makes no sense.

[TexasMexican]

16. or people who download child porn...

for "research." :eyes:

[MrBenchley]

18. Funny, isn't it?

Our "pro-gun democrats" got no time at all to act like Democrats over there...although they got lots of time to dredge turds out of those cesspools and hold them up here like they're "facts".

"It's like an anti-porn crusader spending all of his time downloading the latest fetish videos."
Only to those who can't tell the difference between their weapons and their sex life.

[TexasMexican]

21. Benchley is in the closet

"Only to those who can't tell the difference between their weapons and their sex life."

Out of all the posters in this forum, you are the only one I know that consistently compares guns to porn. So I'm thinking your the only one who cant tell the difference between guns and sex.

If thats the case let me give you a little education.

The "Penis" goes into the "Vagina," it doesnt go into the barrel of a gun, infact its generally good to keep the barrel of a gun as far away from your penis as possible.

[MrBenchley]

23. Gee, Mex, I'm in the open on everything...

including what sort of "enthusiasts" can't tell the difference between their sex life and their popguns....

I used the word "penis" in three posts in the last month or so...

One directly quoting a liberal writer who used the word (a liberal writer quoted in the J/PS folder? Who'd a thunk it?) while describing the American Conservative Union's FuckwitFest '04....referring to the Grand Wizard of the NRA presenting a gun to an asswipe (whose son was nabbed shooting at motorists in a road rage incident) she says...."it's NRA tradition to "honor" those who have served the cause of Second Amendment rights by giving them a firearm. (Curious: What is the message that sends? We think people may try to kill you? Kill yourself? You look like you need a surrogate penis?)"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...

Another is again quoting somebody...in this case a trigger-happy ditto monkey on a gun loon forum, enraged that Comedy Central had some merry fun at the sacred fetish object's expense... "I answered that it is a zenish experience, timing the release of the trigger with the aiming of the firearm, that its fun and isnt an olympic sport for nothing. One of the panelists was an a**wipe commedian and proceeded to show how i proved guns were just an extension of guys penis's. He had a penis pump that he brought out and asked one of the panelists if he'd agree to give up his guns in exchange for the penis pump. He reduced our gun rights to a penis pump.."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...

And finally, during a Guns in the News thread, describing a bunch of GOP idiots in the California legislature trying to compare an erotic party to a gun show. "Republicans in the Senate sought to amend Speier's bill to also ban the presence of the annual Exotic Erotic Ball, billed as "the world's wildest and sexiest party." Democrats voted to defeat the amendments. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...

So of the three times I used the word, twice it was while quoting someone else, and once it actually referred to penises.

Amusingly, here are the other occurances of the word this past month (ain't it grand to have a search function?):

"D__S
99. Leupold does manufacture some outstanding optics...
(antcipating obligatory penis size reference)."
D__S
9. I have a medium sized penis.
leanings
15. Hey!
I resemble that remark! I've got extra small genetalia
Que
90. Teeney weenie
My penis is so small I had to get a revolver with a 2 inch barrel."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...

"D__S
Just wondering.
On penises and guns. Is it a barrel length or caliber (girth), thing?
I'm hung like a tuna can, but that's just me."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...

"OpSomBlood 
38. Poop, jerking off to gun porn, big gun/small penis..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...

"Wcross
19. even "law-abiding gun owners" can become criminals...
Law abiding penis owners can become rapists. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...

"FeebMaster 
46. I'm thinking of giving up the whole reasoned discussion angle
and just start randomly posting penis references and links to articles I haven't read"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...

"Gman 
2. Whatever...
Looks like a pretty big waste of money. Why not just have a small revolver if you want personal protection. A small .38 all you need. Anything more is indicative of a personal penis perception psychosis.
Good Fences
4. Psychosis?
You're the one thinkin bout my iver johnson..... 
FatSlob
17. You're amusing.
Evidently you didn't read "and plinking". You are the only one writing about the penis.
OpSomBlood 
18. The only ones who ever mention the penis-gun connection are anti-gunners.
So it's a little difficult for me to accept that we are the ones with the fixation."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...  

[OpSomBlood]

25. It's funny that our references to the word "penis" here...

...are all direct responses to your juvenile rants.

[MrBenchley]

29. It's even funnier that they make my point for me

and in such a screwloose manner too....

[OpSomBlood]

31. You must have the largest penis on the planet.

Assuming your highly scientific and widely publicized gun/penis correlation is correct.

Congratulations!

[MrBenchley]

17. Gee, considering how quick our "enthusiasts" are

to defend any slur against them, "who cares" is pretty fucking obvious.

"Please put the NRA/Bush porn away. We will only have gun porn"
Not really much difference....

[MrBenchley]

20. Back to the topic...

""Assault weapons have no business being around our society."
-- George W. Bush, as quoted in The Houston Chronicle (August 12, 1999)
Really, Mr. President?  Because judging from your actions (or lack there of) your promises to support a strong, effective assault weapons ban seem more and more like a big 'ole flip flop or, worse yet, an outright lie.
On February 23, the President re-affirmed his support for the ban through a spokesperson who said "ith regard to the assault weapons ban, supports the extension of the current ban."
But the very next day, Bush issued a Statement of Administration Policy (SAP) regarding a bill pending in the Senate that would have granted the gun industry immunity from certain lawsuits.  In obvious reference to bill amendments that would, among other things, renew the assault weapons ban, the SAP read:
"The Administration strongly supports Senate passage of S. 1805.  The Administration urges the Senate to pass a clean bill, in order to ensure enactment of the legislation this year.  Any amendment that would delay enactment of the bill beyond this year is unacceptable."
February 23: Flip
February 24: Flop"

http://www.csgv.org/issues/elections/ontarget/issue9.cfm

Worst. pResident. Ever.

[TexasMexican]

22. He obviously lied.

He wanted votes from both sides, pro and anti gun.

If only our candidate would be as effective on this issue, then maybe we could win in Novemember.

[MrBenchley]

30. Who on the pro-gun side DOESN'T lie?

From AssKKKRoft to Mary Rosh, the entire creed is built on deliberate and easily discovered horseshit.

[OpSomBlood]

32. I don't lie.

Who knows, maybe there are a few others.

[MrBenchley]

33. Uh HUH....

[OpSomBlood]

35. Snappy comeback.

Hope your ears aren't setting off the smoke detectors over there.

[MrBenchley]

39. Nothing else needed....

[OpSomBlood]

40. Kindly provide a link to where I have ever lied here.

Chances are you'll say you don't follow orders.

[MrBenchley]

43. Gee, op, THAT's pretty fucking easy....

You shouldn't do that on the same day you started an utterly dishonest thread....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=62847&mesg_id=62847

[OpSomBlood]

45. You're right. "Guns should be banned" IS a lie.

Mea culpa.

[MrBenchley]

46. Without distortion, denial or deception, the RKBA side would be mute

and it shows in the sort of scummy imbecile that makes up the Second Amendment Caucus.

[OpSomBlood]

47. "Spray-firing bullet hose" isn't distortion or deception?

How exactly do you "spray" a weapon that fires one shot per trigger pull?

[MrBenchley]

48. Peddle it elsewhere, op....

[OpSomBlood]

49. If it's so easy to do, it shouldn't require a manual.

n/t

[library_max]

58. So modifying a gun to full auto is hard,

but making a full-auto gun from scrap metal is easy, right?

[FeebMaster]

60. Glad you're finally getting it.

Modifying something for a purpose it wasn't intended often is harder than just building the right thing from scratch in the first place.

[library_max]

57. Well, if you must have an example,

that reminds me of one. The time you told me that no one around here gives or takes orders, after having just given me an order.

[NorthernSpy]

36. admittedly, I'm a very minor bit player in this gun debate, but...

...what lies have I told?

I don't think I've lied, and I don't know who here has.

(John Lott doesn't count. He's not one of us.)


Mary

[MrBenchley]

38. Gee, spy...

We were talking about politicians and other figures on the public stage...

"John Lott doesn't count. He's not one of us."
Funny...there sure are a lot of "pro-gun democrats" who jump up to bitch and moan whenever one of his lies is pointed out. Some even try posting his crap as fact from time to time.

[OpSomBlood]

41. You didn't say "politicians and public figures," you said "pro-gun side"

Don't back down from your sweeping generalization now! You were just getting started!

[RoeBear]

26. Willing to agree...

...with this.

"Worst. pResident. Ever."

[MrBenchley]

50. Another NRA lie...

""It’s not a stretch to say that the worst thing that could happen to the Second Amendment is for John Kerry to be elected president."
-- NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre, as quoted by the Associated Press (May 21, 2004)
Ya gotta love hyper-hyperbole.  On Target wonders how electing John Kerry threatens the Second Amendment. 
Would President Kerry agree with Bush and Ashcroft that the assault weapons ban is perfectly constitutional? 
Would President Kerry side with the overwhelming majority of the public - including gun owners - who  support banning military-style assault weapons?
Would President Kerry stand with law enforcement officers to keep them from being outgunned on the streets?
To Wayne LaPierre, such actions are anti-Second Amendment.  To the rest of us, these actions are well in line with not only the Second Amendment, but also common sense. "

[PopeyeII]

51. Mr. Benchlie you do realise that NRA membership does include minorities?

Blacks, women, gays, Hispanics, lesbians, democrats, liberals, libertarians, catholics, baptist, athiest....

It seems anti-gunners are a "desparate" minority willing to do anything to incoporate their agenda.

[CO Liberal]

52. And Do You Realize that the NRA Leadership....

...includes some world-class assholes, such as Wayne LaPierre and Ted "Shit-For-Brains" Nugent???

[MrBenchley]

54. Not to mention actual convicted criminals....

But hey, let's all pretend it's the Rainbow Coalition as if we had bullets for brains (snicker).

[NorthernSpy]

61. Chickenhawk Ted

According to a widely-circulated account which we’ve never seen refuted, here’s how Mr. Nugent dodged the draft. "He claims that 30 days before his draft board physical, he stopped all forms of personal hygiene. The last 10 days, he ingested nothing but Vienna sausages and Pepsi; and a week before his physical, he stopped using bathrooms altogether, virtually living inside pants caked with his own excrement, stained by his urine. That spectacle won Nugent a deferment, he says. ‘... but if I would have gone over there, I'd have been killed, or I'd have killed, or I'd killed all the hippies in the foxholes...I would have killed everybody.’” -- Detroit Free Press Magazine, July 15, 1990

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=%20NEWS%3B%20Chickenhawks%3BSui%20Generis



Well, I believe it. But I'm not sure whether he was deliberately avoiding the draft, or just living at his preferred level of hygiene. Every picture I've seen of him looks like it ought to be captioned "Mange: Find the Cure".


Mary

[CO Liberal]

63. Anyone Who Looks Up to Ted Nugent...

...needs to seek professional help, IMHO.

[MrBenchley]

53. Too fucking funny....

Clarence Thomas is a Republican but the GOP doesn't fool me either....

[TexasMexican]

55. Not in the NRA, but...

I'm certainly not going to let white politicans take away the right to self defense away from my people.

My Hispanic congressman voted against the AWB.